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Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet...[W:208]

Phys251

Phys251

Purge evil with Justice
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Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Vests : NPR

This story was on NPR's Fresh Air today. It is a brutally honest look at the intimidation, violent, and even terrorist tactics used by radical pro-lifers, and how the passionate anti-choice messaging has inflamed much of it.

(Which means that our resident pro-lifers will bristle in defensiveness at it, probably without listening one second to this story. Too bad--these are facts. This is what "pro-life" has come to mean.)
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

Phys251 said:
Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Vests : NPR

This story was on NPR's Fresh Air today. It is a brutally honest look at the intimidation, violent, and even terrorist tactics used by radical pro-lifers, and how the passionate anti-choice messaging has inflamed much of it.

(Which means that our resident pro-lifers will bristle in defensiveness at it, probably without listening one second to this story. Too bad--these are facts. This is what "pro-life" has come to mean.)
Click to expand...

The abortionists made their bed; let them sleep in it (or die in it). Kill an abortionist; save countless children.
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

SDET said:
The abortionists made their bed; let them sleep in it (or die in it). Kill an abortionist; save countless children.
Click to expand...

And right out of the gate, we get an example of the disgusting rhetoric that has led to anti-abortion violence.
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

Phys251 said:
And right out of the gate, we get an example of the disgusting rhetoric that has led to anti-abortion violence.
Click to expand...

It's not that bad... chill out... stop pretending this is anything other than a political .... this is all just fear to stir up change. People are killed more commonly for much for ridiculous reasons..
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

I approve of abortion providers seeing to their personal defense with armed protection....but I see this more as a gun control issue than an abortion issue.

as for "passionate messaging" i'm not buying it... there passionate messaging all over all sorts of issue, and very few are driven to kill over it..... I think such arguments revolve around a desire to silence the speech of those whom you disagree with.

alternately, i think it's a deeply held personal belief of radical pro-lifers that abortion providers are actually evil and deserve retribution for their killings of the unborn.... that's certainly not something i agree with them on, and I think violence towards that end is unproductive , unjust, and heinous.

I also think this is the natural result of two sides in a contentious issue not giving the time of day to the other side... instead declaring them to be evil or stupid, or what-have-you.
there are ongoing dialogues, but only internal dialogues within each camp.. all surrounding how evil the other camp is and why they should not be allowed to inhabit the earth.
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

celticwar17 said:
It's not that bad... chill out... stop pretending this is anything other than a political .... this is all just fear to stir up change. People are killed more commonly for much for ridiculous reasons..
Click to expand...

So you don't have a problem being killed, as long as they're killed for reasons with which you agree?

And no, we will NOT "chill out." Shame on you for suggesting such an offensive course of action.
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

Phys251 said:
And right out of the gate, we get an example of the disgusting rhetoric that has led to anti-abortion violence.
Click to expand...

it's not the rhetoric to leads to anti-abortion violence... it's actually abortions that leads to anti-abortion violence.

just sayin'
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

Phys251 said:
So you don't have a problem being killed, as long as they're killed for reasons with which you agree?

And no, we will NOT "chill out." Shame on you for suggesting such an offensive course of action.
Click to expand...

what is your preferred course of action?
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

Thrilla said:
I approve of abortion providers seeing to their personal defense with armed protection....but I see this more as a gun control issue than an abortion issue.
Click to expand...

I am 100% in support of reproductive health center employees arming themselves. They have that right as guaranteed by the Second Amendment.

as for "passionate messaging" i'm not buying it... there passionate messaging all over all sorts of issue, and very few are driven to kill over it..... I think such arguments revolve around a desire to silence the speech of those whom you disagree with.

alternately, i think it's a deeply held personal belief of radical pro-lifers that abortion providers are actually evil and deserve retribution for their killings of the unborn.... that's certainly not something i agree with them on, and I think violence towards that end is unproductive , unjust, and heinous.

I also think this is the natural result of two sides in a contentious issue not giving the time of day to the other side... instead declaring them to be evil or stupid, or what-have-you.
there are ongoing dialogues, but only internal dialogues within each camp.. all surrounding how evil the other camp is and why they should not be allowed to inhabit the earth.
Click to expand...

Exactly one side of the abortion struggle resorts to violence, intimidation, and terrorism. I wonder why that is?
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

Thrilla said:
it's not the rhetoric to leads to anti-abortion violence... it's actually abortions that leads to anti-abortion violence.

just sayin'
Click to expand...

Total BS. That's like rapists' blaming their victims for wearing too short of skirts.

Anybody who literally cannot help but commit violence deserves to be committed to a mental institute before he strikes.

Thrilla said:
what is your preferred course of action?
Click to expand...

To let human beings live their own lives, to not force women and girls to continue pregnancy against their will, and to not have those who oppose this right resort to violence, threats, intimidation, and other forms of hate.
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

Phys251 said:
I am 100% in support of reproductive health center employees arming themselves. They have that right as guaranteed by the Second Amendment.
Click to expand...
myself as well, and i extent that support to everyone.



Exactly one side of the abortion struggle resorts to violence, intimidation, and terrorism. I wonder why that is?
Click to expand...
I'd have to guess that that particular side sees this violence as retribution for what they have determined to be violence against the unborn.... and they know the authorities/law don't agree with them, so it gives them little choice when seeking retribution....
I'd imagine the radical pro-lifer would argue that, abortion providers have killed far more than pro-lifers have ever thought about killing.... but you have to first understand that they see the unborn as a life, not just a clump of inconvenient cells.

the vast vast vast majority of pro-lifers aren't cool with the violence....I think that's also something you need to understand.
if you think using this violence as a weapon to bludgeon them into magically becoming pro-choicer, i think you in for some frustration and disappointment.
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

Phys251 said:
Total BS. That's like rapists' blaming their victims for wearing too short of skirts.

Anybody who literally cannot help but commit violence deserves to be committed to a mental institute before he strikes.
Click to expand...

so you think it's anti abortion rhetoric that causes the violence... but the actual abortions have nothing to do with it.

interesting.



To let human beings live their own lives, to not force women and girls to continue pregnancy against their will, and to not have those who oppose this right resort to violence, threats, intimidation, and other forms of hate.
Click to expand...
I asked for your preferred course of action.. not what you think the other side should do.

you said you aren't going to "chill out" and you thought that was an offensive course of action, so im interested to hear what you think should be your course of action.
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

Phys251 said:
So you don't have a problem being killed, as long as they're killed for reasons with which you agree?

And no, we will NOT "chill out." Shame on you for suggesting such an offensive course of action.
Click to expand...

Okay passionate activist that's going to change the world...I don't worry about being killed. It has nothing to do with what I agree with or not... I'm saying there very little reason to worry, there is not an epidemic of killings against pro-choice people. In the grand scheme of things people are in more danger for other things...
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

Thrilla said:
myself as well, and i extent that support to everyone.



I'd have to guess that that particular side sees this violence as retribution for what they have determined to be violence against the unborn.... and they know the authorities/law don't agree with them, so it gives them little choice when seeking retribution....
I'd imagine the radical pro-lifer would argue that, abortion providers have killed far more than pro-lifers have ever thought about killing.... but you have to first understand that they see the unborn as a life, not just a clump of inconvenient cells.
Click to expand...

As an ex-anti-choicer, I am well aware of that. Once you go down that path, there's not a lot stopping the slide into fanaticism. And some people wind up there.

You need to stop and ask yourself why it is exclusively the "pro-life" side that struggles with this problem.

the vast vast vast majority of pro-lifers aren't cool with the violence....I think that's also something you need to understand.
if you think using this violence as a weapon to bludgeon them into magically becoming pro-choicer, i think you in for some frustration and disappointment.
Click to expand...

I don't believe you. I have seen with my own eyes, right here at DP, pro-lifers fail to unconditionally condemn anti-abortion violence. And some posts such as #2 outright support it.

This is a problem that your side has a monopoly on. It is you pro-lifers' collective responsibility to purge this problem from your ranks. Use your free speech rights if you wish to condemn a woman's right to choose, but you do not get to use the tactics I have already mentioned.
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

celticwar17 said:
Okay passionate activist that's going to change the world...I don't worry about being killed. It has nothing to do with what I agree with or not... I'm saying there very little reason to worry, there is not an epidemic of killings against pro-choice people. In the grand scheme of things people are in more danger for other things...
Click to expand...

You obviously didn't read or listen to the story. If you had, and if you had taken it to heart, you would have a very different outlook on anti-abortion hate.
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

Phys251 said:
As an ex-anti-choicer, I am well aware of that. Once you go down that path, there's not a lot stopping the slide into fanaticism. And some people wind up there.

You need to stop and ask yourself why it is exclusively the "pro-life" side that struggles with this problem.
Click to expand...
well, as i understand it, there's literally nothing for the pro-choice to get violent about, except maybe as retribution for anti-abortion violence, but that's pretty rare stuff, so there's that.
however, the radical pro-lifers do believe there is reason for violence.... and that reason is the abortions that actually occur.

now, if in the extrem example of abortions becoming illegal, i suspect we would see some pro-choice violence, as the radical pro-choicers would then feel that violence might be justified.



I don't believe you. I have seen with my own eyes, right here at DP, pro-lifers fail to unconditionally condemn anti-abortion violence. And some posts such as #2 outright support it.
Click to expand...
I don't care what you believe, i'm jsut discussing the issue... .you're free to ignore or discount everything i say so you can go on about believing pro-lifers are evil at their very core, it matters not to me.
This is a problem that your side has a monopoly on. It is you pro-lifers' collective responsibility to purge this problem from your ranks. Use your free speech rights if you wish to condemn a woman's right to choose, but you do not get to use the tactics I have already mentioned.
Click to expand...
and this is why discussing abortion is so very frustrating.... despite me saying a least 1,000 times that i am politically pro-choice, not one of you radical pro-choicer can get it through your thick skulls that i'm not on the "other side".. literally every single one of you get it wrong on a consistent basis.

good luck with the issue.... you have no cure for any of this , and you're not actually interested in discussing anything like an adult, so g'nite.
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

Thrilla said:
well, as i understand it, there's literally nothing for the pro-choice to get violent about, except maybe as retribution for anti-abortion violence, but that's pretty rare stuff, so there's that.
however, the radical pro-lifers do believe there is reason for violence.... and that reason is the abortions that actually occur.
Click to expand...

There you go. That statement is more in line with reality. Except for what you said after the ellipses, which, yet again, is categorically untrue. Radical anti-choicers choose to intimidate; they choose to harass; they sometimes choose to resort to violence. I categorically object to your blame-the-victim lies.

now, if in the extrem example of abortions becoming illegal, i suspect we would see some pro-choice violence, as the radical pro-choicers would then feel that violence might be justified.
Click to expand...

And yet it is not a problem in places such as El Salvador, where abortion is not even legal to save the life of the mother.

I don't care what you believe, i'm jsut discussing the issue... .you're free to ignore or discount everything i say so you can go on about believing pro-lifers are evil at their very core, it matters not to me.
and this is why discussing abortion is so very frustrating.... despite me saying a least 1,000 times that i am politically pro-choice, not one of you radical pro-choicer can get it through your thick skulls that i'm not on the "other side".. literally every single one of you get it wrong on a consistent basis.

good luck with the issue.... you have no cure for any of this , and you're not actually interested in discussing anything like an adult, so g'nite.
Click to expand...

I've long since learned not to mince words on this subject. Better to be direct and to the point than try to be the "nice guy" with people who refuse to be nice.
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

Phys251 said:
There you go. That statement is more in line with reality. Except for what you said after the ellipses, which, yet again, is categorically untrue. Radical anti-choicers choose to intimidate; they choose to harass; they sometimes choose to resort to violence. I categorically object to your blame-the-victim lies.
Click to expand...
it's not blaming the victim at all... it's literally stating the very reason behind their violence.

you can pretend abortions have nothing to do with their violence, but hat would be ultimately retarded.



And yet it is not a problem in places such as El Salvador, where abortion is not even legal to save the life of the mother.
Click to expand...
that's a very different culture from ours, dominated by Roman Catholics who oppose abortion.... and they don't largely see abortion as a right of any kind.



I've long since learned not to mince words on this subject. Better to be direct and to the point than try to be the "nice guy" with people who refuse to be nice.
Click to expand...

yes, i'm coming to the understanding you're just like every other radical pro-choicer... all mouth, no ears...honesty is optional.
SSDD
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

Phys251 said:
Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Vests : NPR

This story was on NPR's Fresh Air today. It is a brutally honest look at the intimidation, violent, and even terrorist tactics used by radical pro-lifers, and how the passionate anti-choice messaging has inflamed much of it.

(Which means that our resident pro-lifers will bristle in defensiveness at it, probably without listening one second to this story. Too bad--these are facts. This is what "pro-life" has come to mean.)
Click to expand...

It was bound to happen eventually, where Abortion Providers need armed security to deal with the sentiment offered by post #2 in this thread. The literal endorsement of killing a doctor to advance the "pro-life" movement's goals.

I suspect things will get even worse, as we see continued extremism from the furthest right in this nation.
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

celticwar17 said:
It's not that bad... chill out... stop pretending this is anything other than a political .... this is all just fear to stir up change. People are killed more commonly for much for ridiculous reasons..
Click to expand...

Really? With a focused, targeted agenda? Name some?

There are a few...and then we can examine how THEY handled that targeting.
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

SDET said:
The abortionists made their bed; let them sleep in it (or die in it). Kill an abortionist; save countless children.
Click to expand...

Are you promoting the murder of doctors who do abortions?
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

Thrilla said:
it's not the rhetoric to leads to anti-abortion violence... it's actually abortions that leads to anti-abortion violence.

just sayin'
Click to expand...

That's untrue IMO. The nutter that just killed at a PP shouted rhetoric he'd heard from the dishonestly edited and publicized videos from this past summer, as an example.

What do you think political, religious, philosophical orators are doing? They are attempting to sway opinion and generate action. Unfortunately, that 'power' can be used for evil as well as good. MLK would be an example of good.
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

SDET said:
The abortionists made their bed; let them sleep in it (or die in it). Kill an abortionist; save countless children.
Click to expand...

I actually reported this one and am posting it again so that the mods will see it and hopefully ban you...
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

celticwar17 said:
It's not that bad... chill out... stop pretending this is anything other than a political .... this is all just fear to stir up change. People are killed more commonly for much for ridiculous reasons..
Click to expand...

Dude, the guy literally says, "kill an abortionist and save children"... yeah, it is that bad.
 
Re: Facing Harassment, Some Abortion Providers Turn To Armed Guards, Bullet-Proof Ves

Thrilla said:
it's not the rhetoric to leads to anti-abortion violence... it's actually abortions that leads to anti-abortion violence.

just sayin'
Click to expand...

Small difference. It isn't abortion that leads to anti-abortion violence it is unhinged lunatics that choose to kill people in an effort to stop abortions that leads to violence.
 
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