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What if?

Moderate Right said:
Because we all know that the right believes in life and not aborting it, so why should I ask them? I actually want to know the answer to this question:

Is the left only against abortion because of a woman's rights or if the woman's rights were not an issue, would they be for ending the life of a fetus anyway? If the left would say that it is ok to end the life of a fetus in an artificial womb then that means abortion doesn't really have anything to do with women's rights at all. It just means the left wants to kill fetuses whether they are in a woman or not.
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Are you saying that ALL PEOPLE WHO ARE CONSIDERED TO LEAN LEFT "POLITICALLY" have identical beliefs about every aspect of life?

MR...man you are cognitively stuck with the notion that people are robotic, have no minds of their own. They all march in lockstep to a political philosophy as though it was more important than the Pope following every word of the bible to the letter.
 
Moderate Right said:
Because we all know that the right believes in life and not aborting it, so why should I ask them? I actually want to know the answer to this question:
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I am conservative and very much pro-choice.

It just means the left wants to kill fetuses whether they are in a woman or not.
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This is such a pile.
 
Moderate Right said:
Because we all know that the right believes in life and not aborting it, so why should I ask them? I actually want to know the answer to this question:

Is the left only against abortion because of a woman's rights or if the woman's rights were not an issue, would they be for ending the life of a fetus anyway? If the left would say that it is ok to end the life of a fetus in an artificial womb then that means abortion doesn't really have anything to do with women's rights at all. It just means the left wants to kill fetuses whether they are in a woman or not.
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What reasons would there be for someone not related to kill the unborn?

The only reason for abortion is if a woman believes that it is the best choice for her life and that of her family, present and future. Her health, her future, her ability to care for a child, the kids she has now, etc.

And if it's in an 'artificial womb,' someone is legally responsible for it....again, what reason and right would someone else have to act on that unborn? Basically I think it would be considered like property. You cant just go around destroying other people's property.

What reason and what right would we have to force someone to abort? We cant just go around killing other people's pets, can we?
 
Moderate Right said:
That's just plain ridiculous. The right is always wanting fathers to step up to the plate, both financially and otherwise. Most of the right is very big on family and kids having two parents.
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There you are again , making false blanket statements.

There have been several long threads in the last year where many pro life men have posted they should have not have to pay child support for an unwanted child.

From the following May 2015 thread:

Ikari said:
I think that about the only "fair" thing to do is to allow the male to "abort" financial responsibility for a kid. Abortion is legal, so I don't think that something like the above could fly. The unborn, legally speaking, is property not human.
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http://www.debatepolitics.com/abort...ould-able-veto-women-s-abortions-w-589-a.html

And from page 6 of the same thread:

Originally Posted by minnie616
Sex is not consent to gestate a pregnancy if a girl/ women becomes accidentally pregnant.
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Korimyr the Rat said:
It's not consent to parent a born child, either, if the mother wants to give the child up for adoption.
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Originally Posted by minnie616
Once a child is born the state requires both parents to contribute if one of the parents goes to the state requesting assistance in supporting the child.
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There is no moral basis upon which to compel a "biological father" to pay child support for a child the "biological mother" decided-- solely on her own-- to gestate, birth, and raise without his knowledge or consent. Remember, that she had the full moral and legal right to choose to kill that child in the womb, and the full moral and legal right to give the child away for adoption without even naming him as the father, before the State comes along and forces him to pay child support; under the current system, she has full legal and moral authority over the decision to become a parent and he is bound to the consequences of her decisions.

This is obviously and grossly unjust.[/QUOTE]
 
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Moderate Right said:
The right uses facts to prove their case and the left uses facts to prove their case. They are all facts, they're just cherry picked. You can find facts to prove whatever you want. I can find facts to prove that the Earth's sky is not blue.
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again facts are fact and no you cant find facts to prove what ever you want LMAO Thank you for further proving that you simply dont understand the topic you tried to discuss.


Fact remains your claim was wrong and theres no such thing as abortion in your made up scenario, like i said you rmistke :shrug:
 
Ancient Herald said:
It is wrong to force women to give birth.
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I see what you mean. It is wrong to require women to accept responsibility for their decisions, and it is wrong to afford a living human equal protection of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness if it would be more convenient to just kill him/her. If the living human is young enough, it's not like s/he is going to complain.

Regarding not requiring women to accept responsibility for their decisions, will universal debt forgiveness for women be next so we don't impinge whatsoever on their "right to choose"? Will it be an acceptable defense for any other type of crime for a woman to plead "freedom of choice! It is wrong to force a woman to obey the law"
 
IB daMann said:
Just out of curiosity, do you believe in Global Warming?

Just out of curiosity, should background checks be required for all firearm sales?
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Red Herrings. This is the Abortion Forum.
 
IB daMann said:
I see what you mean. It is wrong to require women to accept responsibility for their decisions, and it is wrong to afford a living human equal protection of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness if it would be more convenient to just kill him/her. If the living human is young enough, it's not like s/he is going to complain.

Regarding not requiring women to accept responsibility for their decisions, will universal debt forgiveness for women be next so we don't impinge whatsoever on their "right to choose"? Will it be an acceptable defense for any other type of crime for a woman to plead "freedom of choice! It is wrong to force a woman to obey the law"
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LMAO how many lies could one possible put in one post.
 
Moderate Right said:
The right uses facts to prove their case
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Yet you have ot been able to provide a single relevant one. Why is that?

They are all facts, they're just cherry picked.
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Facts are facts and when added all together they can not support two opposite sides.

You can find facts to prove whatever you want.
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Clearly you have no clue about what is a fact.
 
This has been a head shaking thread. The left paints the entire right as rigid in their beliefs and are for abstinence only and not for any form of birth control whatsoever, including abortion, and are not at all even partially responsible for statistics showing the number of abortions has been declining and then they point out that not everyone on either side feels the exact same and that some on the right are even pro-choice and then accuse me of painting with a broad brush. I have spent what I thought were fruitless hours trying to get the point across in these abortion threads that there is the left and the far left and then there is the right and the far right, only to be told time and time again that everyone on the right is the same . Shakes head again. Maybe somehow somewhere I did get through afterall.
 
IB daMann said:
I see what you mean.
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Clearly you do not

It is wrong to require women to accept responsibility for their decisions
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On the contrary, but you are under the delusion that somehow you get to decide for others what is that responsibility.

Regarding not requiring women to accept responsibility for their decisions, will universal debt forgiveness for women be next so we don't impinge whatsoever on their "right to choose"? Will it be an acceptable defense for any other type of crime for a woman to plead "freedom of choice! It is wrong to force a woman to obey the law"
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But citing such moronic reasons you are only betraying a total lack or knowledge or understanding of this issue.
 
Moderate Right said:
This has been a head shaking thread. The left paints the entire right as rigid in their beliefs and are for abstinence only and not for any form of birth control whatsoever, including abortion, and are not at all even partially responsible for statistics showing the number of abortions has been declining and then they point out that not everyone on either side feels the exact same and that some on the right are even pro-choice and then accuse me of painting with a broad brush. I have spent what I thought were fruitless hours trying to get the point across in these abortion threads that there is the left and the far left and then there is the right and the far right, only to be told time and time again that everyone on the right is the same . Shakes head again. Maybe somehow somewhere I did get through afterall.
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You said everyone on the right agreed....I did not say that nor did I imply that.

Your quote...my bolding.

Moderate Right said:
That's just plain ridiculous. The right is always wanting fathers to step up to the plate, both financially and otherwise. Most of the right is very big on family and kids having two parents.
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prometeus said:
On the contrary, but you are under the delusion that somehow you get to decide for others what is that responsibility.
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So if I acknowledge that I don't get to decide for others, you agree with my post.

prometeus said:
But citing such moronic reasons you are only betraying a total lack or knowledge or understanding of this issue.
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I think we can see exactly who has not thought through his position.
 
IB daMann said:
So if I acknowledge that I don't get to decide for others, you agree with my post.
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There was nothing in your post other than you pretending to be the decider what is responsible in other people's lives.
 
IB daMann said:
I see what you mean. It is wrong to require women to accept responsibility for their decisions, and it is wrong to afford a living human equal protection of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness if it would be more convenient to just kill him/her. If the living human is young enough, it's not like s/he is going to complain.

Regarding not requiring women to accept responsibility for their decisions, will universal debt forgiveness for women be next so we don't impinge whatsoever on their "right to choose"? Will it be an acceptable defense for any other type of crime for a woman to plead "freedom of choice! It is wrong to force a woman to obey the law"
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Most Pro-fetus posters, who drift in and out of the Abortion Forum, leave me in a state of wonderment.

Pro-fetus advocates are condemning of women who have abortions because they believe that such women are violating another human life's "right to life". The reality is: No life form has "a right to life" at any stage of development.

Pro-fetus personify early stages of human life (in which most abortions occur) as though they are participate in life like members who they would be born to, their environment, community, stage, nation. But the hardcore reality is "they don't". They aren't laying around in the womb pondering what they'll be when they grow up. What college they'll attend. NONSENSE! They don't know that they exist. To believe otherwise is magical thinking. But I realize that some people feel more comfortable in their own skins employing magical thinking to get through life.

Apparently Pro-fetus advocates believe that they have enough insight to the future to now that every conception is so meaningful and valuable that regardless of its fate, whether it's good, bad, or indifferent, it is 100% deserved simply because it exists. And it must exists for a reason. And since it exists for a reason then it must have more importance than the fate of the woman who conceived it.

Pro-fetus advocates believe that abortion is a mortal transgression.

But Yet...

Pro-Fetus Advocates have no problem in using an unwanted child to punish a woman for an imaginary act of having irresponsible sex - no matter what the life circumstances are for any given woman. She ****ed, she conceived, and as a result, if her life is significantly damaged or diminished because of the consequence of conceiving - just too damn bad. She's a failure to a god or her fellow citizens. She's simply not valued enough to maintain control over her own self-determination among her fellow human beings.

Pro-fetus Advocates believe that society has no obligations to have their tax money spent on social services to maintain the general welfare of children born to wicked women who reproduce out of irresponsibility - despite knowing that children have no political voice and can't fend for themselves.

Pro-fetus love pointing to the world that everybody should realize that a female is born with a uterus and therefore should be automatically denied her the right to life and liberty in the same manner as men.

Pro-fetus advocates believe that women are somehow legally or morally obligated to reproduce - and obviously don't believe that men are legally or morally obligated to reproduce.

And a lot of Pro-fetus advocates believe "conception" in and of itself is a sacrosanct event. That their religious beliefs dictate that they are the guardians of life, the protectors of future human beings. Might heavy responsibility considering most folks wake up everyday just wanting to make ends meet and hope that they can somehow climb the ladder of success, whatever that might be to them.

Amazing that such a life form - a newly created human life has so much power over the already born. Born human beings who actually go through the riggers of life in order to keep the world spinning round and round. The ones who labor to keep humanity intact.

Apparently they exist to be slaves to something yet to be.
 
IB daMann said:
Maybe all this time the problem has been your lack of English comprehension.
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Not at all, my English is just fine, the lacking and pretenses in your posts are the problem and only you can overcome that.
 
Removable Mind said:
Most Pro-fetus posters, who drift in and out of the Abortion Forum, leave me in a state of wonderment.
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Is that because you don't understand the words?

Removable Mind said:
Pro-fetus advocates are condemning of women who have abortions because they believe that such women are violating another human life's "right to life". The reality is: No life form has "a right to life" at any stage of development.
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No life form has a "right to choose" at any stage of development.

Removable Mind said:
Pro-fetus personify early stages of human life (in which most abortions occur) as though they are participate in life like members who they would be born to, their environment, community, stage, nation.
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How does that apply to me? I use the words "living human." Those words leave you in a state of wonderment, yes?

Removable Mind said:
Apparently Pro-fetus advocates believe that they have enough insight to the future to now that every conception is so meaningful and valuable that regardless of its fate, whether it's good, bad, or indifferent, it is 100% deserved simply because it exists.
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I think you need to go back and reread the posts that you apparently misinterpreted.

I will state that I have enough insight to know that a living human that has not committed any crime deserves to live at least as much as any other living human.

More "wonderment" on your part?

Removable Mind said:
Pro-fetus advocates believe that abortion is a mortal transgression.
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Mortal? ...as in leads to death? Isn't it?

Removable Mind said:
But Yet... Pro-Fetus Advocates have no problem in using an unwanted child to punish a woman for an imaginary act of having irresponsible sex - no matter what the life circumstances are for any given woman.
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So your argument rests on misrepresenting the position and views of your opponents? That kind of wraps it up for you. It looks like you're done.

Removable Mind said:
She ****ed, she conceived, and as a result, if her life is significantly damaged or diminished because of the consequence of conceiving - just too damn bad.
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Inaccurate wording:

Se decided to ****, she accepted the risk of pregnancy, she ultimately created a new life, she wants to blame the life she created and put into her body for her pregnancy, as though the new living human created itself and invaded her body.

It's a matter of accepting personal responsibility. The new living human did nothing wrong and certainly did nothing to warrant a death sentence.

More "wonderment" on your part?

Removable Mind said:
Pro-fetus Advocates believe that society has no obligations to have their tax money spent on social services to maintain the general welfare of children born to wicked women who reproduce out of irresponsibility - despite knowing that children have no political voice and can't fend for themselves.
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Do anti-fetus advocates realize that children have no political voice and can't fend for themselves?
 
IB daMann said:
Is that because you don't understand the words?


No life form has a "right to choose" at any stage of development.


How does that apply to me? I use the words "living human." Those words leave you in a state of wonderment, yes?


I think you need to go back and reread the posts that you apparently misinterpreted.

I will state that I have enough insight to know that a living human that has not committed any crime deserves to live at least as much as any other living human.

More "wonderment" on your part?

Mortal? ...as in leads to death? Isn't it?

So your argument rests on misrepresenting the position and views of your opponents? That kind of wraps it up for you. It looks like you're done.

Inaccurate wording:

Se decided to ****, she accepted the risk of pregnancy, she ultimately created a new life, she wants to blame the life she created and put into her body for her pregnancy, as though the new living human created itself and invaded her body.

It's a matter of accepting personal responsibility. The new living human did nothing wrong and certainly did nothing to warrant a death sentence.

More "wonderment" on your part?

Do anti-fetus advocates realize that children have no political voice and can't fend for themselves?
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Death sentence for something that doesn't exists in the minds of the world? More nonsensical personification of the yet to be born.

Know of any pro-choice who moan and bitch about social services for children?

Having sex isn't an agreement to bring a conception to full term should one occur.

There is no evidence that abortion has any negative impact on humanity if it doesn't come into existence. NONE! But there's a lot of evidence why abortion has positive impacts.

Pro-life need to stop using the notion that bringing unwanted children into the world will make women learn that they deserve what they get for having sex.


Care to share why you hold so much regard for the yet to be born over the born?
 
IB daMann said:
I see what you mean. It is wrong to require women to accept responsibility for their decisions, and it is wrong to afford a living human equal protection of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness if it would be more convenient to just kill him/her. If the living human is young enough, it's not like s/he is going to complain.

Regarding not requiring women to accept responsibility for their decisions, will universal debt forgiveness for women be next so we don't impinge whatsoever on their "right to choose"? Will it be an acceptable defense for any other type of crime for a woman to plead "freedom of choice! It is wrong to force a woman to obey the law"
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Here you go making claims you cant support again. Hey, I want to be Queen of the World! But that's not real either no matter how much I write it.

Abortion is a responsible action....what is not responsible is producing a kid that you cant properly care for or afford, and then handing it off to the foster care system or requiring public assistance...all on the tax payer's $. That is not responsible.

And what crimes (abortion is not a crime) might a woman claim 'freedom of choice' from? Esp. any that would also not also apply to men?

And of course I'd still be interested in seeing how the born and unborn can be treated equally....you keep writing that....I guess it makes you feel good to fantasize that but unless you can provide some evidence...it's just you wanting to be "Queen" and that's how it's viewed.
 
Moderate Right said:
This has been a head shaking thread. The left paints the entire right as rigid in their beliefs and are for abstinence only and not for any form of birth control whatsoever, including abortion, and are not at all even partially responsible for statistics showing the number of abortions has been declining and then they point out that not everyone on either side feels the exact same and that some on the right are even pro-choice and then accuse me of painting with a broad brush. I have spent what I thought were fruitless hours trying to get the point across in these abortion threads that there is the left and the far left and then there is the right and the far right, only to be told time and time again that everyone on the right is the same . Shakes head again. Maybe somehow somewhere I did get through afterall.
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You appear to have little ability to respond directly to specifics in people's posts. You continue to attempt to create generalizations for groups and then invent or propose your own foundations under them.

You might discover more about this issue if you'd respond to what's ventured forth specifically instead of giving up when the answers throw you for a loop or dont conform to your preconceived notions.

If you know everything about this issue....why are you here in this sub-forum?
 
I am prochoice and have personally never quoted the Founding Fathers in support of my decision. While I recognize they were intelligent, I don't really care what some slave owning men from the 1700s thought when it comes to how I live my life today. I have on occasion used the phrase "Our Founding Fathers would roll over in their graves if they saw this" but it is just a superficial comment.

I care about the Constitution in as much as it is the foundation of our laws. When the Court's interpretation of the Constitution agrees with me I use it to bolster my legal claim. Such as in abortion. When it disagrees with me I argue to have it amended or for the Court to change its interpretation. Such as in Citizens United.
 
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