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It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle[W:95]

Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

JayDubya said:
You don't think I know that it is currently legal for a pregnant mother to hire someone to kill her kid?

Something that would be prerequisite knowledge in order to argue against the status quo?

I know it just fine. The problem you have is that you seem to think asserting the status quo is the end of the discussion. In a debate about the appropriateness of that status quo.

It's unclear how you could possibly not understand why that's illogical.
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You are just wasting my time. You complained on a post I did, then used false equivalency and got schooled. Bother someone else, because debating you is a waste of brain cells.
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

beefheart said:
You are just wasting my time. You complained on a post I did, then used false equivalency and got schooled. Bother someone else, because debating you is a waste of brain cells.
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Your revisionist history is showing.

You "schooled" no one and nothing by merely asserting a status quo that is known to all involved.
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

JayDubya said:
You don't think I know that it is currently legal for a pregnant mother to hire someone to kill her kid?
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Sorry - that's totally illegal. A "kid" is the term used for a born child. If a pregnant woman has a born child - she may not hire anyone to kill him. She may, however, abort her fetus (assuming it's early in the term), but the fetus, of course, is not a "kid."

You get so much so wrong.
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

HowardBThiname said:
Sorry - that's totally illegal. A "kid" is the term used for a born child.
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I don't have any interest in playing your insipid pro-abort semantic games. Thanks.

"Kid" is generic enough that it shouldn't cause any fuss, yet here you are fussing anyway. Just goes to show that some folks will always play the semantics game because it's all they have.

Not everyone is willing to call the unborn "parasite," "tumor," "human garbage," or some kind of unique slur. And you pro-aborts will just have to get over it.
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

JayDubya said:
You don't think I know that it is currently legal for a pregnant mother to hire someone to kill her kid?
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LMAO that is factually NOT legal in this country and posting that lie wont make it true.
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

JayDubya said:
Of course I do. We've been through this.

I respect human rights and you don't.
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No you FACTUALLY do not.
Choice is a human right LMAO see the major human rights orgs ;)
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

cfreeman said:
I think that's pretty obvious even if we didn't have this research. But the implication is that something is acceptable just because lots of people do it. That is not the case.
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Personally, I'm encouraged by the fact that women are smart and strong enough to ignore religious mandates that are stupid, and the evidence shows that they, indeed, are. This is yet another demonstration of how slowly unyielding religious traditions are to catch up with the moral sensibilities of the average "believer". I don't blame women for not feeling comfortable going to their clergy to discuss family planning. The clergy's domain is super nature. Women and doctors are real. There is an inherent contradiction there.
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

JayDubya said:
I don't have any interest in playing your insipid pro-abort semantic games. Thanks.

"Kid" is generic enough that it shouldn't cause any fuss, yet here you are fussing anyway. Just goes to show that some folks will always play the semantics game because it's all they have.

Not everyone is willing to call the unborn "parasite," "tumor," "human garbage," or some kind of unique slur. And you pro-aborts will just have to get over it.
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We are actually over being lied to constantly. Your elevationist hyperbole is a pretty typical form of dishonesty that we have come to expect. Even with all you most certainly know about the distinctions between a fetus and a baby, you will not admit it. You pretend that a baby, a swaddled, diapered person, who you can touch, talk to, listen to and pass around the room from person to person is the same thing as a fetus, that exists as a subset of another fully-rights-endowed woman. That's YOU making **** up, it's not us.

Furthermore, we who are honest have no expectation that you will ever change or even admit that you are stretching credulity here. I, personally, am disgusted by the way you can even consider a fetus a person, knowing how that presents an immediate, unfair and irrevocable rights division between a woman and her womb's contents. The truth is, when you arrogantly re-define the fetus, you simultaneously re-define women too and they deserve more than to be diminished by your ignorance.
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

D_NATURED said:
Furthermore, we who are honest have no expectation that you will ever change or even admit that you are stretching credulity here. I, personally, am disgusted by the way you can even consider a fetus a person
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There is no such admission I need to make, because if I did, then I would be lying.

Yes, I note that you claim to be disgusted by those who wish to treat all human beings equally, restricting personhood from none.

I find bigotry against the unborn to be disgusting. As disgusting as it is against any other group.

Likewise, dishonesty about how treating all human beings equally could somehow be discriminatory is disgusting.
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

JayDubya said:
There is no such admission I need to make, because if I did, then I would be lying.

Yes, I note that you claim to be disgusted by those who wish to treat all human beings equally, restricting personhood from none.

I find bigotry against the unborn to be disgusting. As disgusting as it is against any other group.

Likewise, dishonesty about how treating all human beings equally could somehow be discriminatory is disgusting.
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Facts:
you do not want equality nor do you view pregnant woman as equal
this fact has been proven many times by your own words and posts
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

cfreeman said:
I have a negative reaction anytime I see research by the Guttmacher institute. I'd like to see this research by someone a little less involved.

Not that this would be all that surprising. Lots of people across all demographics are getting abortions? No way!
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The Guttmacher Institute's data is reliable. It's not comprehensive, nor is the CDC's, because some states don't report information.
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

JayDubya said:
There is no such admission I need to make, because if I did, then I would be lying.

Yes, I note that you claim to be disgusted by those who wish to treat all human beings equally, restricting personhood from none.

I find bigotry against the unborn to be disgusting. As disgusting as it is against any other group.

Likewise, dishonesty about how treating all human beings equally could somehow be discriminatory is disgusting.
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You prove my point about your dishonesty every time you use the ambiguous phrase "human being". What is a "being" if it does not BE on its own? How can you possibly be foolish enough to treat a being that draws life from the very bloodstream of another as the equal of a true individual. As you rush to declare fetuses to be the equal (it feels dirty to even write it) of women, you ultimately agree to step over their dead bodies to, with great blindness and arrogance, grant the right of life to fetuses. A more ass-backward priority system I've not seen.

Bolstered by meaningless crap ideas like the phrase "bigotry against the unborn", the god-squad pushes forward, tireless in their struggle to put women and their right to life and physical autonomy on a rights-slicer, where it can be shared, unwillingly, with the invader within. Every syllable you utter is a new threat to the lives and welfare of women and you reek of apathy toward them.
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

There's a lot of nastiness there I'm just not going to dignify.

D_NATURED said:
You prove my point about your dishonesty every time you use the ambiguous phrase "human being"
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Nothing ambiguous about it.

It's a scientific fact that the unborn are living members of the species Homo sapiens, aka human beings.

rush to declare fetuses to be the equal (it feels dirty to even write it)
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Yes, you have said that equality makes you "disgusted" and now it makes "you feel dirty."

I don't share your disdain. Equality is a good thing. We should strive for a fair society that treats folks equally regardless of arbitrary characteristics.

the god-squad pushes forward
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I'm on the "god-squad" now? Me, who openly states that I believe in no such entity?

Every syllable you utter is a new threat to the lives and welfare of women
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Entirely untrue.

I utter no threats to such.
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

JayDubya said:
We should strive for a fair society that treats folks equally regardless of arbitrary characteristics.
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Unless you're born with no money.

Then you can die.

But you have to be born first.
 
jbander said:
It also looks like they are part of the problem. 70% of Abortions are to Christians. About 67% of our men population are Christian and about 76% of the women in this country are Christian. 76% of Christian assumed that the reaction from the church would be cold, judgmental and condemning. Only 7% would even discuss it with the church. In general terms, the Christian women have abortion at the same rate as everyone else. The difference seems to be with income.
I would say that the condemning should go to the church.
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Couple things to be fair and for honesty

theres no condemning needed
Many "Christians" have different views on abortion, like ALL people and many don't see it as an issue and even more who PERSONALLY see it as an issue don't want to force their views on others and violate their rights.
In a country where the majority self identify as Christians most things are going to be down by that same general group but that doesnt mean it represents Christianity or the group. The world just doesnt work that way.

SO grouping people is just silly like it always is.

On the "battle" of abortion that battle is over and really has been. There will be temporary little victories pro-life "extremists" can celebrate over but they will be short lived because peoples rights arent going anywhere. Unless our Constitution magically changes and a huge stack of precedence magically disappear abortion is here to stay in this country. It maybe tweaked (i myself would like it tweaked along with other laws revamped) but it will not be banned.
 
Thanks good post, condemnation is from the church and it looks by the numbers that the church isn't the answer, when women don't consider them as a support group or for a place for advice. Your totally reasonable and if the country was you, I wouldn't be me.
AGENT J said:
Couple things to be fair and for honesty

theres no condemning needed
Many "Christians" have different views on abortion, like ALL people and many don't see it as an issue and even more who PERSONALLY see it as an issue don't want to force their views on others and violate their rights.
In a country where the majority self identify as Christians most things are going to be down by that same general group but that doesnt mean it represents Christianity or the group. The world just doesnt work that way.

SO grouping people is just silly like it always is.

On the "battle" of abortion that battle is over and really has been. There will be temporary little victories pro-life "extremists" can celebrate over but they will be short lived because peoples rights arent going anywhere. Unless our Constitution magically changes and a huge stack of precedence magically disappear abortion is here to stay in this country. It maybe tweaked (i myself would like it tweaked along with other laws revamped) but it will not be banned.
Click to expand...
 
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