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It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle[W:95]

Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

JayDubya said:
Of course I do. We've been through this.
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No.

You do not.

I respect human rights and you don't.
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Sorry, I think you mean by respect human rights, you mean put a pricetag on those lives.

How much is a poor childs life worth to you?
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

JayDubya said:
No, they have an obligation to the offspring they create.
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According to who?
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

ellesdee said:
Ah, yes... the pro-life mentality--criticize women who want to abort a fetus because they can't afford to to raise a child, then criticize women who had a baby they couldn't afford.
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Why yes, I am critical of anyone who kills other human beings for personal financial gain and I am also critical of parents who neglect their offspring's material needs.


Thanks for noticing. I take it you're not critical of either, and you think that's somehow the better position?
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

JayDubya said:
Of course I do. We've been through this.

I respect human rights and you don't.
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lol...sure you do.
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

Removable Mind said:
You mean that abortion, based on your personal beliefs, isn't acceptable...right?
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No. In fact, that's basically the opposite of what I believe. What I, or you, believe about abortion is irrelevant to whether or not it is acceptable.
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

JayDubya said:
Why yes, I am critical of anyone who kills other human beings for personal financial gain and I am also critical of parents who neglect their offspring's material needs.


Thanks for noticing. I take it you're not critical of either, and you think that's somehow the better position?
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No, I don't support women having children they can't afford. That's why I support abortion.
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

ellesdee said:
No, I don't support women having children they can't afford. That's why I support abortion.
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Ah yes, the typical "pro-choice" mentality - the poor are better off dead, so make it happen, since it's for their own good.


I find it morbidly fascinating how you folks think that view is somehow humanitarian.


To be fair, I would advise folks who can't afford kids to refrain from sex or at least procure themselves multiple means of preventing pregnancy if they simply must have sex anyway. It is not advisable to make kids you can't afford.

Of course, once there's already a pregnancy, that cat's out of the bag. Best you can do, most moral thing to do, if you truly can't afford to take care of your kid is to make adoption arrangements.
 
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Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

ttwtt78640 said:
The same "fix" as for one that has a pet that they cannot (or will not) properly care for. The state takes custody and may well bring criminal charges. You are not rewarded with funds, guidance or assistance for not properly caring for a pet, in fact, the opposite is true - you normally are punished for not doing so.

Stating that since we have foolish policy X then we need foolish policy Y to lessen its impact seems to be your argument here.
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In other words, trash the Constitution, right?
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

JayDubya said:
Yes. I do.
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Not in any way, shape or form.

Tell me again though, how much is a childs life worth?

What's a fair price to pay to keep the mother and child alive if they experience complications during birth?
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

Jetboogieman said:
Not in any way, shape or form.
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Sorry, but you're wrong.

:shrug:
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

Ancient Herald said:
THE Church is generally a reference to the Roman Catholic Church. They consider themselves the only true Church because they were established by a direct blood relation of Jesus, James The Righteous, who was his brother.
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As a trivia side notes, it is the Catholic church, not the "Roman Catholic Church". The Catholic church is comprised of about 23 rites. The Roman rite is by far the largest. In addition, the Catholic church has always considred the historical Orthodox churches to be true lineage based apostolic churches as well. These churches were/ are seen as being in various degrees of schism due to the ancient and ongoing "Which came first- the chicken or the egg" argument.
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

JayDubya said:
Sorry, but you're wrong.

:shrug:
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I am not, now do you have an answer to my question?

How much is a mother and childs life worth?

Since you say nothing should be done to help them without adequate remuneration on the mothers part.
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

Scintillating conversation.

You're wrong!
No I'm not!
You're wrong!
No I'm not!
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

cfreeman said:
No. In fact, that's basically the opposite of what I believe. What I, or you, believe about abortion is irrelevant to whether or not it is acceptable.
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As a man, I have no dog in the hunt, if that's what you mean?

But I do 100% support women's rights to have an abortion, no questions asked up to the stage of viability. And according to the S.C., technology can redefine when that might be. So be it.

I also refuse to support the diminishing or dismantling of women's Constitutional rights, which include, but are not limited to being denied life, liberty, or property without due process, equal protection under the law, and the right right to privacy - all of which is equally afforded to men.

Men have no legal or moral obligation to reproduce - and neither do women.

I don't support women being discriminated against for having not having a penis. Or if you prefer, being discriminated against for having a uterus.

Let me take it a step farther. In Canada, there is zero restrictions placed on women regarding abortion. However, it is a known fact that Canadian women have slightly higher percentage of abortions in the first 12 weeks or less than do women in America. That percentage ranges around 95%. All other percentages are performed out of necessity because of the woman's health or life is in jeopardy or the fetus is seriously malformed or dead.

Consequently, the numbers in both countries tells us that women are being very responsible with regards to when they choose to have an abortion. Women know that the longer they wait - the risks of complications are higher.

So in the end, I actually support Canada's laws regarding abortion. And I'd have no problem with the same being applied in the U.S.
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

David_N said:
It's acceptable because a women has the right to do what she wants with her body, and that includes removal of the fetus.
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The fetus is not "her body".
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

I mean that either abortion is acceptable or it isn't. My opinion, or yours, has no effect on that objective reality.
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

cfreeman said:
Scintillating conversation.

You're wrong!
No I'm not!
You're wrong!
No I'm not!
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Disappointed? Gosh, there are so many other forums to participate in. Try'em, you might like them.

By the way. Pro-life and Pro-choice arguments are 100% mutually exclusive. They aren't related. They're fundamentally as different as chicken soup and astrophysics.

But yes, the arguments go on as though there is some mutual ground to debate.
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

cfreeman said:
I mean that either abortion is acceptable or it isn't. My opinion, or yours, has no effect on that objective reality.
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The same can be said about politics, religion and preferences for buying cars.
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

countryboy said:
The fetus is not "her body".
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Of course it's not, the fetus is completely reliant upon the woman and the woman has control over the fetus.
 
Re: It looks like abortion opponents from the church are loosing the battle

David_N said:
Of course it's not, the fetus is completely reliant upon the woman and the woman has control over the fetus.
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Yes, legally she can kill it. That doesn't make it any less atrocious.
 
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