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Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W:40]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Scrabaholic said:
The point just sailed over your head by about a million miles.....
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That would interest me. In what way. If you can put your thought into words, I might learn something.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

JayDubya said:
Yes, welfare is the state coercing charity at gunpoint, and despite your ignorance you assert exactly that above, so we are on the same page on that at least.

The difference is I do not support coercing charity at gunpoint, and you do.

The relevance to your quote is that you cannot use Christ advocating for voluntary charity as an excuse to push coercing charity at gunpoint.
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No gunpoint, you're free to run into the forest and wipe your ass with dried leaves, i don't give a ****.

If you want to participate in society, you pay your fair share. If you don't like it, you can also leave the country.

This gunpoint obsession you have here is bizarre. If someone knocked on your door and stole all your money at gunpoint, that was a criminal, not a representative of the US government.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Moderate Right said:
But I thought that the fetus is a gob of goo with no right to life until born? How can a doctor be liable for damaging a gob of goo that isn't even human? The left has a double standard here. If they want to abort a fetus it is because the fetus doesn't have a right to life and is nothing but a gob of goo but if the woman decides to have the baby all of a sudden it does have the right to life and is not a gob of goo.
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The fetus is the property of the woman who bears it. Thus, if her property is damaged, she can seek legal satisfaction.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

JayDubya said:
My claim is that Jesus Christ advocated charitable giving, not an authoritarian government with a welfare state.

Mandatory "charity" coerced at gunpoint may be something socialists like, but don't hide behind religion to justify it.
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Luke 20:25 Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

SmartCat said:
Luke 20:25 Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.
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A clever answer to avoid being arrested for sedition by the agents of a dictator - "his face is on the money, if he wants it give it back to him." If anything, actually pertains to separation of church and state.

Probably not an endorsement of the authority that did not believe in his God and would later be crucifying him.

Definitely not relevant to this discussion no matter what since it does not talk about what the money will be used for, so if your "argument" here is legit, Jesus wholesale endorses anything any government does, which would of course include NOT having a welfare state or writing "Jesus sucks!" on the moon with a powerful laser.
 
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Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

JayDubya said:
A clever answer to avoid being arrested for sedition by the agents of a dictator - "his face is on the money, if he wants it give it back to him." If anything, actually pertains to separation of church and state.

Probably not an endorsement of the authority that did not believe in his God and would later be crucifying him.

Definitely not relevant to this discussion no matter what since it does not talk about what the money will be used for, so if your "argument" here is legit, Jesus wholesale endorses anything any government does, which would of course include NOT having a welfare state or writing "Jesus sucks!" on the moon with a powerful laser.
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Jesus does suck when his legacy is religious authoritarianism. That you seem to think he was for the separation between church and state and yet don't see the contradiction between that and the fact of his contemporary followers using religion to justify the oppression of women is telling. Abortion is one of the issues that shows what religion is most useful for accomplishing politically. Namely, the re-defining of reality for the purpose of denying justice to other people, in this case women.

How you, or anyone with or without a god, could think that a rational definition of a person could include one who dwells, literally, within and drawing nutrition from, another human being is beyond me. Furthermore, that you don't care about the way this creates an immediate and idiotic sort of division of rights between a woman and the fetus living within her, threatening her life and health, is a wonder to behold. So, ultimately, what we're talking about is a religious justification for something that can NEVER be legally comprehensible. If women are endowed with equal rights, as human beings, then their rights are immutable and cannot be temporarily suspended for the purpose of defending a potential life which may, at any moment, cause the premature death of its female host.

I, for one, am grateful that women bravely take on the risk and responsibility of motherhood. They selflessly give of their bodies and their very lives for the next generation. With the great burden they bear, it is only right that we support them and yield to their reproductive authority over their own bodies. Anything else is a form of slavery that women don't deserve to endure and the rest of us cannot logically defend. Fetuses are a dime a dozen. Human rights are priceless.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Lol @ literally everything above. Completely divorced from reality.

Nothing salient to address whatsoever.

Just naked bigotry and stupidly calling not being allowed to kill other human beings in aggression "slavery."
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

JayDubya said:
Lol @ literally everything above. Completely divorced from reality.

Nothing salient to address whatsoever.

Just naked bigotry and stupidly calling not being allowed to kill other human beings in aggression "slavery."
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Fetus removal surgery is NOT aggression. Bombing a clinic IS. Deal, if you can, with reality.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

D_NATURED said:
Fetus removal surgery is NOT aggression. Bombing a clinic IS. Deal, if you can, with reality.
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You are the one in denial of reality when you claim that an unborn human can attack anyone.

You pro-aborts need to get your story straight. Pick one – unborn humans are either a) subhuman inanimate property or b) not only human beings, but developed enough to be moral actors who can be held responsible. Both are ludicrous, but when you claim both out of opposite sides of your mouth, it's truly pathetic.

In reality (a place alien to you and your peers), of course, an unborn Homo sapiens is a human being, all human beings are created equal, and all human beings have a set of unalienable rights.

In reality, as legal minors, born children are not held to the level of responsibility you are placing on the unborn, who are incapable of malice and incapable of initiating force... And of course, born minors actually can attack someone.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

JayDubya said:
In reality (a place alien to you and your peers), of course, an unborn Homo sapiens is a human being, all human beings are created equal, and all human beings have a set of unalienable rights.
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BS, you are confusing your delusion with reality.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

prometeus said:
BS, you are confusing your delusion with reality.
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100% factually correct
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

JayDubya said:
1.)You are the one in denial of reality when you claim that an unborn human can attack anyone.
2.)You pro-aborts need to get your story straight. Pick one – unborn humans are either a) subhuman inanimate property or b) not only human beings, but developed enough to be moral actors who can be held responsible. Both are ludicrous, but when you claim both out of opposite sides of your mouth, it's truly pathetic.
3.)In reality (a place alien to you and your peers), of course, an unborn Homo sapiens is a human being
4.) all human beings are created equal, and all human beings have a set of unalienable rights.

In reality, as legal minors, born children are not held to the level of responsibility you are placing on the unborn, who are incapable of malice and incapable of initiating force... And of course, born minors actually can attack someone.
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1.) somebody said that? link? they said the ZEF is consciously attacking the mother? LInk with factual proof please or its a posted lie like the super vast majority of your posts
2.) somebody said that the ZEF is just "property"? LInk with factual proof please or its a posted lie like the super vast majority of your posts
3.) sorry if we are including every stage not even scientist (including embryologists) agree with your OPINION and there is debate on it. Links to this have been posted many times.
4.) this is an OPINION, one I also believe but my views actually reflect it, your views see the woman as a lesser and wanted her treated as so.
Another post and more of your posted lies destroyed lol
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

JayDubya said:
In reality (a place alien to you and your peers), of course, an unborn Homo sapiens is a human being, all human beings are created equal, and all human beings have a set of unalienable rights.
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Who says?

JayDubya said:
In reality, as legal minors, born children are not held to the level of responsibility you are placing on the unborn, who are incapable of malice and incapable of initiating force... And of course, born minors actually can attack someone.
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Funny, that's what I always say to that silly claim where people decry ending the life of the 'innocent' unborn! Oh the wailing and tearing of hair, the rending of garments. And yet, here you are, implying the exact same thing....the unborn are empty and incapable of anything, including initiating force or other actions, positive or negative, nor forming the intent for malice or innocence. So odd that some people value this 'innocence' of emptiness, of a vacuum. As you admit, it could just as easily malicious but is, in fact...incapable of either.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Lursa said:
Who says?
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You know who said.

Funny, that's what I always say to that silly claim where people decry ending the life of the 'innocent' unborn!
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Gee, maybe that's exactly what I meant when I said "You pro-aborts need to get your story straight."

Incapable of attacking anyone, yet "self-defense" is somehow in play?
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

JayDubya said:
You know who said.



Gee, maybe that's exactly what I meant when I said "You pro-aborts need to get your story straight."

Incapable of attacking anyone, yet "self-defense" is somehow in play?
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Yeah, but just because you said it doesnt mean anything.

And yes, please remember that the next time you plan on writing about that unborn 'innocence,' since it has no value.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Lursa said:
Yeah, but just because you said it doesnt mean anything.
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Wrong again.

While I am pretty awesome, giving me credit for the handiwork of Jefferson, Franklin, and Adams is a bit silly on your part.

And yes, please remember that the next time you plan on writing about that unborn 'innocence,' since it has no value.
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Not being capable of doing anything wrong absolutely means the kid, by necessity, didn't do anything wrong. That is, of course, relevant when talking about whether or not a homicide is justifiable.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

JayDubya said:
Not being capable of doing anything wrong absolutely means the kid, by necessity, didn't do anything wrong. That is, of course, relevant when talking about whether or not a homicide is justifiable.
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Since you oppose all state help of any kind and say its morally justifiable for a doctor to walk away from a dying baby if its mother could not pay the doctor, please don't talk to us about how much you care about these kids.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Jetboogieman said:
Since you oppose all state help of any kind
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Can your ass ever stay on topic or are you just gonna stalk me from thread to thread and get on your soapbox about socialism?

Maybe if I go to the economics forum, you'll rant about abortion...
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

JayDubya said:
Can your ass ever stay on topic or are you just gonna stalk me from thread to thread and get on your soapbox about socialism?

Maybe if I go to the economics forum, you'll rant about abortion...
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It's the fundamental point about your supposed concern about these kids.

Because the reality is you want to use the force of law to protect a fertilized egg from the moment of conception, but the moment that kid is born, it can die for all you care, especially if its poor which it didn't choose either.

I think, philosophically that is an incredibly aggressive and vicious world view that shows your aggressive stand against reproductive rights is a morally bankrupt one.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

JayDubya said:
In reality (a place alien to you and your peers), of course, an unborn Homo sapiens is a human being, all human beings are created equal, and all human beings have a set of unalienable rights.
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Lursa said:
Yeah, but just because you said it doesnt mean anything.
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JayDubya said:
Wrong again.

While I am pretty awesome, giving me credit for the handiwork of Jefferson, Franklin, and Adams is a bit silly on your part.
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Please show us where they ever wrote that. Should be easy, right? Not your 'interpretation,' but where they wrote it.

And if necessary, I'll just correct you...again. Just a matter of cut and paste.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Jetboogieman said:
It's the fundamental point
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Blah blah blah.

It was a rhetorical question. You answered it with a resounding "No," because of course your ass can't stay on-topic.

the reality is you want to use the force of law to protect a fertilized egg from the moment of conception
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No, I don't want to protect non-existent things. Please refrain from talking nonsense.

but the moment that kid is born, it can die for all you care
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You're full of ****. Nothing I have ever said could be rationally construed in that manner.

But one more time for the groundlings in the cheap seats, your accusation of hypocrisy is bankrupt.

It's already illegal to kill born humans; I want this to be universal. Applying the same standard universally is only "hypocrisy" in crazy land.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

JayDubya said:
Not being capable of doing anything wrong absolutely means the kid, by necessity, didn't do anything wrong. That is, of course, relevant when talking about whether or not a homicide is justifiable.
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I wasnt discussing 'homicide.' I was discussing the useless valuation of the kind of 'innocence' that equals emptiness, a vaccum. But you already know that.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Lursa said:
Please show us where they ever wrote that.
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Well, gee. There's only one document that set of folks were assigned to create.

I suppose you could Google it if you need to, but that should be profoundly embarrassing in and of itself.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Lursa said:
I wasnt discussing 'homicide.'
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We are always discussing homicide. This is the abortion forum.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

JayDubya said:
You're full of ****.
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No I am not.

You've already admitted that it's morally justifiable to have a medical system that COULD walk away from a dying child or pregnant mother if they're poor.

So not only can the child die for all you care, the pregnant mother can as well.

If you "value life" you have to put your money where your mouth is and we have to have a society that doesn't force 14 year old rape victims to have babies and either lets them die from complications or throws them out on the street.
 
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