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How would you solve the abortion issue?

Amadeus

Amadeus

Chews the Cud
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Calling people murderers and is all well and good, but how would you solve the issue? Pretend that you have the ability to enact law.
 
Doesn't matter if I passed laws banning abortions. Apparently there's is no other option for those who support them.
 
Tim the plumber said:
Stop talking to Americans.

The rest of the world has worked out reasonable compromises.
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Yep. In Germany it is illegal killing that is, if the rituals are properly preformed, not punished. And the religious are forced to pay for it.
 
Amadeus said:
Calling people murderers and is all well and good, but how would you solve the issue? Pretend that you have the ability to enact law.
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Semi-permanent birth control implanted in males & females when puberty hits. Can't get it taken out or reproduce till one is 30.
 
Winchester said:
Semi-permanent birth control implanted in males & females when puberty hits. Can't get it taken out or reproduce till one is 30.
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That's an interesting idea. Did you come up with that yourself? It does solve the problem, but it creates a host of other problems. I think I would have to give it a thumbs down.
 
Amadeus said:
That's an interesting idea. Did you come up with that yourself? It does solve the problem, but it creates a host of other problems. I think I would have to give it a thumbs down.
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I was being facetious... mostly. However, the answer lies in non-coercively extending the age of first pregnancy which can be done by educating girls/women, available birth control and somehow financially incentifying delay in pregnancy.
 
joG said:
Yep. In Germany it is illegal killing that is, if the rituals are properly preformed, not punished. And the religious are forced to pay for it.
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Or they go to Denmark, Belgium, the Netherlands or France and get one there.
 
Amadeus said:
Calling people murderers and is all well and good, but how would you solve the issue? Pretend that you have the ability to enact law.
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I would legislate a max 14-week time line for a legal abortion. I would make the morning-after pill as easy to buy as candy. I'd legislate classes in school that taught young men and young women SEPARATELY the life-altering consequences of having unprotected sex.
 
Amadeus said:
Calling people murderers and is all well and good, but how would you solve the issue? Pretend that you have the ability to enact law.
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if we could:

- eradicate poverty
- change the mentality of young females that getting pregnant will help you to escape your current situation
- dispel the belief that it will help you to keep a boy and
- get it through the head of young boys that early teenhood is the most fertile time of their life, and you will be responsible
- give them hope and help them to have a solid sense of self

it sure would be a start
 
I would solve the issue by enacting an actual Federal law already, instead of always deferring to the courts. I would also enact laws to protect funding to clinics which provide health services to women, including abortion. The issue should be decided based on modern medical science and right to confidentiality, as there is no real secular reason to deny abortion. Our national policy on abortion needs to come into alignment with the rest of the developed world.

If you interrogate the beliefs of most pro-lifers in the U.S., it's okay to abort for medical reasons, for rape or for incest. It's not "murder" in those cases but it's "murder" if you get an elective abortion. It's time to call out these beliefs for what they are: backward and punishing toward free women. National policy should be based on secular reasoning and the overriding good of society. One group's religious beliefs don't get to cancel out everyone else's.
 
Northern Light said:
I would solve the issue by enacting an actual Federal law already, instead of always deferring to the courts. I would also enact laws to protect funding to clinics which provide health services to women, including abortion. The issue should be decided based on modern medical science and right to confidentiality, as there is no real secular reason to deny abortion. Our national policy on abortion needs to come into alignment with the rest of the developed world.

If you interrogate the beliefs of most pro-lifers in the U.S., it's okay to abort for medical reasons, for rape or for incest. It's not "murder" in those cases but it's "murder" if you get an elective abortion. It's time to call out these beliefs for what they are: backward. National policy should be based on secular reasoning and the overriding good of society. One group's religious beliefs don't get to cancel out everyone else's.
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good point, if they are going to term it a "baby" at three weeks for two kids experimenting how is it different when it is rape/incest or medically not viable for the body carrying it

come to think of it...yeah...why is it ever okay if that is the thought?
 
Peter King said:
Or they go to Denmark, Belgium, the Netherlands or France and get one there.
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I only wanted to comment on a legal structure I know well and understand.
 
MaggieD said:
I would legislate a max 14-week time line for a legal abortion. I would make the morning-after pill as easy to buy as candy. I'd legislate classes in school that taught young men and young women SEPARATELY the life-altering consequences of having unprotected sex.
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This is the best answer I've read so far. In fact - I'd allow schools to pass out morning-after pills, no questions asked, no matter how young the female was. I'd also stress the importance of teaching young women that they are valuable in roles other than just being mothers. I'd support more girl sports and help them develop the type of self esteem that makes it easy to say no to male advances. I also think it would be money well spent to subsidize hormonal birth control for women. Can't abort if they never get pregnant after all.
 
joG said:
I only wanted to comment on a legal structure I know well and understand.
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I just wrote this because I read (in Dutch) an article about the German women not being allowed to have a legal abortion, which was an issue after the unification because it had been legal in East Germany and that women traveled to Denmark to have an abortion there.

The same goes for the Irish, they go to the UK to have their abortion there.
 
Peter King said:
I just wrote this because I read (in Dutch) an article about the German women not being allowed to have a legal abortion, which was an issue after the unification because it had been legal in East Germany and that women traveled to Denmark to have an abortion there.

The same goes for the Irish, they go to the UK to have their abortion there.
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That used to happen all the time. For a good number of years it has been quite easy to have an abortion in Germany. The Catholic Church stopped giving the required consultations that are part the bureaucratic rituals, but there is no bottleneck and the state takes the costs in one way or an other.
 
MaggieD said:
I would legislate a max 14-week time line for a legal abortion. I would make the morning-after pill as easy to buy as candy. I'd legislate classes in school that taught young men and young women SEPARATELY the life-altering consequences of having unprotected sex.
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The only problem I have with this is that some very serious fetal anomalies are not diagnos-able until around 24 weeks. If you would put in an exception for the life of the mother, and for the viability of a healthy child for those diagnoses that cannot occur within the 14 weeks, I think you'd find a lot of folks would be in agreement to this being a reasonable compromise. Also free contraception for whomever wants it upon reaching puberty, regardless of what that age is.
 
Winchester said:
I was being facetious... mostly. However, the answer lies in non-coercively extending the age of first pregnancy which can be done by educating girls/women, available birth control and somehow financially incentifying delay in pregnancy.
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I don't think you should have backed off that quite as easily or quickly as you did.

We can certainly concoct a fail-safe contraceptive implant...and require it like we require vaccinations.

This may sound like a joke, but the main cause of abortion...is pregnancy.

Eliminating unwanted pregnancy would go a LONG way to eliminating abortions...and that is the area in which we should be directing our attention.
 
Frank Apisa said:
.

Eliminating unwanted pregnancy would go a LONG way to eliminating abortions...and that is the area in which we should be directing our attention.
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It is the only area we should be paying attention.

Improved long term birth control for women and development of long term birth control for men. These need to be cheap, safe, and available.

And OF COURSE figuring out how to turn an unwanted pregnancy into a wanted one. Helping the woman figure out how she is going to support and nurture the child safely into adulthood. This is harder than it seems as it encompasses poverty, medical care, education, employment, etc.
 
Frank Apisa said:
I don't think you should have backed off that quite as easily or quickly as you did.

We can certainly concoct a fail-safe contraceptive implant...and require it like we require vaccinations.

This may sound like a joke, but the main cause of abortion...is pregnancy.

Eliminating unwanted pregnancy would go a LONG way to eliminating abortions...and that is the area in which we should be directing our attention.
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Unfortunately, at this time, the side effects of implanted female contraceptives are still severe enough for some women that making it mandatory would be unfair entirely. Additionally it's still putting 100% of the onus on the woman. Let's wait til men have implanted contraceptives available and then make it mandatory for them, because let's get real, the main cause of pregnancy is sperm.
 
Summerwind said:
Unfortunately, at this time, the side effects of implanted female contraceptives are still severe enough for some women that making it mandatory would be unfair entirely. Additionally it's still putting 100% of the onus on the woman. Let's wait til men have implanted contraceptives available and then make it mandatory for them, because let's get real, the main cause of pregnancy is sperm.
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Winchester did not suggest JUST implanting them in women...but in both men and woman (or girls and boys, for those who prefer.)

"Mandatory" is an imposition...and I am not entirely comfortable with that.

But a great deal more can be done to prevent unwanted pregnancies...and we ought to be heading in that direction in a BIG way. Unfortunately, many of the people who are most opposed to abortion...are also the people who think contraception is an evil.
 
Summerwind said:
The only problem I have with this is that some very serious fetal anomalies are not diagnos-able until around 24 weeks. If you would put in an exception for the life of the mother, and for the viability of a healthy child for those diagnoses that cannot occur within the 14 weeks, I think you'd find a lot of folks would be in agreement to this being a reasonable compromise. Also free contraception for whomever wants it upon reaching puberty, regardless of what that age is.
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That is why I do not have an issue with euthanasia on infants if they are that seriously defected than it should be able for the parents to decide to (in consultation with more than 1 doctor) to let a baby pass away in order to not suffer anymore in their few weeks of life that they have left.
 
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