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CMP releases 4th Video on Planned Parenthood.....

I wonder if all these anti-choice propaganda films will be accompanied by a surge in support for affordable, easily-accessible birth control and comprehensive sex ed.

Oh, that's right, they're not. Because anti-choicers oppose these things too. Their reactions to these videos is just foaming at the mouth at the chance to regulate women's and girls' genitalia.
 
Phys251 said:
Their reactions to these videos is just foaming at the mouth at the chance to regulate women's and girls' genitalia.
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I think that is an inaccurate and unfair accusation. It is tantamount in tone and spirit to saying that pro-choice advocates enjoy killing babies. That kind of language is counterproductive for either side of the debate to engage in. We need to stop treating people with different political points of view as the enemy.
 
Mr. Blackwell said:
I think that is an inaccurate and unfair accusation. It is tantamount in tone and spirit to saying that pro-choice advocates enjoy killing babies. That kind of language is counterproductive for either side of the debate to engage in. We need to stop treating people with different political points of view as the enemy.
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I am not going to entertain that false dichotomy when the "pro-lifers" have repeatedly resorted to malicious, intimidating, and in some cases, literally terrorist methods to push their agenda, especially when "moderate" "pro-lifers" refuse to stand up to these extremists. Anti-choicers do not want peace. They want control of women's and girls' reproductive habits. Period. I refer you back to my previous post for justification of this position.
 
Phys251 said:
I am not going to entertain that false dichotomy when the "pro-lifers" have repeatedly resorted to malicious, intimidating, and in some cases, literally terrorist methods to push their agenda, especially when "moderate" "pro-lifers" refuse to stand up to these extremists. Anti-choicers do not want peace.
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That is true enough.

They want control of women's and girls' reproductive habits. Period.
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I really don't think that is their primary motivation. In other words, I highly doubt that Scott Roeder murdered Dr. Tillman just because he (Scott) wanted to control the *****. It is about something different and until you recognize that it's not just simply a battle for control over women, the battle will never end.
 
Mr. Blackwell said:
That is true enough.

I really don't think that is their primary motivation. In other words, I highly doubt that Scott Roeder murdered Dr. Tillman just because he (Scott) wanted to control the *****. It is about something different and until you recognize that it's not just simply a battle for control over women, the battle will never end.
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Here is something I want you to think about.

Let us suppose for the sake of argument that people who call themselves "pro-life" really are interested in preserving, at all costs, the life and well-being of a young person before and after he or she is born. If that's truly so, then why are almost all of them the very same people who oppose government support for any of the following:
-Comprehensive sex-ed
-Affordable and easily-available birth control
-Food stamps and other forms of child welfare
-Prenatal care
-Paid maternal leave

All of which contribute to the health of women and children and would increase the probability that a fetus would survive before, during, and after birth.

I have yet to see a single justification for the opposition to abortion rights that has survived legitimate scrutiny, other than control of her use of her reproductive organs. Not one. The mere fact that this is a harsh statement does not in any way, shape or form take away from its truth value. For those who are in denial of the truth, that truth is a harsh, often painful, spotlight. But the mere induction of pain is a poor excuse not to shine that light of truth on the darkness. We shall know the truth, and the truth shall set us free.
 
I will think about it. I'm going out of town in a few minutes and won't be back until Sunday. But just for the record, there is a difference between people who make policies and people who actually go out and bomb abortion clinics. It is two different subjects with a common theme. If you want to talk about radical conservative extremists we can talk about that or if you want to talk about the policies you brought up and the ideas behind them we can do that. But I don't want to conflate the two. It gets messy and too emotionally charged.
 
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I don't really have a problem with abortions happening. I don't really have a problem with aborted fetuses being procured for research and the like. And I don't have a problem with PP being compensated for their labor to provide the buyers with the material.

But when they start talking about how much for each kind of tissue and how much if the organ or tissue is useful, then they are getting into the "money-making" end of things.

If PP really wants to avoid any suspicion of selling body parts for profit, they need to establish a base, across the board, collection and handling fee...establish that fee at ALL of their locations...and tell those who want the material that this is what it's going to cost. Period. No matter WHAT the condition.

Another thing that bothers me is PP changing their abortion procedure depending on whether it's advantageous to getting better material. That brings the abortion away from a procedure that is to benefit the patient...to something that will benefit PP. If they keep that up, then they deserve to be labeled as body part sellers because that's where their focus lies.
 
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Mr. Blackwell said:
I will think about it. I'm going out of town in a few minutes and won't be back until Sunday. But just for the record, there is a difference between people who make policies and people who actually go out and bomb abortion clinics. It is two different subjects with a common theme. If you want to talk about radical conservative extremists we can talk about that or if you want to talk about the policies you brought up and the ideas behind them we can do that. But I don't want to conflate the two. It gets messy and too emotionally charged.
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Good.

Safe travels. :2wave:
 
pbrauer said:
Why would they vote to defund them when the claim is made they are selling is illegal? No putting the out of business? Jail time?
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That's where I am too. Defunding is not enough. There needs to be charges, and in the case of delivered babies it needs to be murder. Here is the thing: the government will not prosecute for it, so it will be left to the people, and some will follow thru. Guess who will be labelled as criminals? Hint: it won't be the butchers high fiving in the video.

Here is the problem folks. If your government can redefine murder of babies in the womb to exonerate themselves, and will ignore butchering children who were actually born as "mistakes", how much of a jump is it for them to kill any on us and claim it is just? The government better get a handle on this, or abortionists will start being "aborted"'. And when they arrest those who do, law enforcement will be considered accessories to it. This kind of "social justice" could get out of hand in a hurry. If the government wants to maintain it's authority they are going to have to find a way to end this before they find themselves being considered accessories as well. I don't like the looks of this, and I'm very happy to live nowhere near it.
 
Guess what Mengele was doing for a living when authorities finally caught up with him in Argentina. Come on, guess. This is an easy one. If I have to explain who he was some diplomas need to be revoked.
 
tech30528 said:
That's where I am too. Defunding is not enough. There needs to be charges, and in the case of delivered babies it needs to be murder. Here is the thing: the government will not prosecute for it, so it will be left to the people, and some will follow thru. Guess who will be labelled as criminals? Hint: it won't be the butchers high fiving in the video.

Here is the problem folks. If your government can redefine murder of babies in the womb to exonerate themselves, and will ignore butchering children who were actually born as "mistakes", how much of a jump is it for them to kill any on us and claim it is just? The government better get a handle on this, or abortionists will start being "aborted"'. And when they arrest those who do, law enforcement will be considered accessories to it. This kind of "social justice" could get out of hand in a hurry. If the government wants to maintain it's authority they are going to have to find a way to end this before they find themselves being considered accessories as well. I don't like the looks of this, and I'm very happy to live nowhere near it.
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What are you talking about ?
When a woman has a legal abortion they do not murder and butcher children who were actually born as "mistakes".

We have a born alive law and any child born alive must be given the very best medical care.
 
tech30528 said:
That's where I am too. Defunding is not enough. There needs to be charges, and in the case of delivered babies it needs to be murder. Here is the thing: the government will not prosecute for it, so it will be left to the people, and some will follow thru. Guess who will be labelled as criminals? Hint: it won't be the butchers high fiving in the video.

Here is the problem folks. If your government can redefine murder of babies in the womb to exonerate themselves, and will ignore butchering children who were actually born as "mistakes", how much of a jump is it for them to kill any on us and claim it is just? The government better get a handle on this, or abortionists will start being "aborted"'. And when they arrest those who do, law enforcement will be considered accessories to it. This kind of "social justice" could get out of hand in a hurry. If the government wants to maintain it's authority they are going to have to find a way to end this before they find themselves being considered accessories as well. I don't like the looks of this, and I'm very happy to live nowhere near it.
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Here's the problem. Radical pro-life advocates want to have women's Constitutional rights to equal protection, due process under the law, and right to privacy significantly diminished or dismantled...ALL BECAUSE they have a uterus.

That's right!

In other words, these radical thinkers want women's rights to liberty and self-determination removed because they don't have a penis.

Most anti-choice are men...who can't get pregnant...who continue to live under belief that strong-arm rule is the only way to run a nation...not rule by law.

If you oppose abortion...don't have one. Or don't have a relationship with a woman who might have one.

Women don't have a moral or legal obligation to proliferate the species (reproduce) ANYMORE THAN MEN DO!

In the face of knowing that all of the abortions ever performed since the dawn of humanity...has not impacted humanities positive population growth...and in fact has lessened the social burdens by not forcing taxpayers to take on the role of parents and support exponentially reproducing unwanted kids. Pro-Fetus advocates STILL can't seem to get in touch with reality. Why? Most are apparently on a mission from god. They're out to save all of the little vessels to be used to implant supernatural beings...before birth. Anybody ever wonder why so many natural miscarriages or failed conceptions happen?
 
prometeus said:
Because you cling to talking points that serve your position and avoid facts and learning.
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No, I know because you commented on the contents of a 2 and a half hour documentary 10 minutes after I posted it.

I understand how fragile the imaginary world is that pro-Choice people have to maintain, but your fear of the truth needn't be so blatant.
 
Much ado over nothing. These are aborted fetuses. Who cares what they do with the remains?

The body parts are going to labs. Gee, like we don't know that lab work on cadavers is gory. It's not like they are selling the meat to Chinese restaurants.
 
jmotivator said:
No, I know because you commented on the contents of a 2 and a half hour documentary 10 minutes after I posted it.

I understand how fragile the imaginary world is that pro-Choice people have to maintain, but your fear of the truth needn't be so blatant.
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Yep. Saw that too. They ask for proof and when you give it to them they refuse to look at it.
Seems like the abortion lifestyle has become a religion to them.
 
calamity said:
Much ado over nothing. These are aborted fetuses. Who cares what they do with the remains?

The body parts are going to labs. Gee, like we don't know that lab work on cadavers is gory. It's not like they are selling the meat to Chinese restaurants.
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Like the cavalier attitude displayed in your post calamity, the cracking of bones, crushing of skulls, and the ability to identify gender, doesn't play well with average citizens.

If it doesn't matter, perhaps the push back from PP and abortion rights activists should be reconsidered. Why not promote segments of these videos showing the dissection, and the comments being made during the process under the heading of "Much ado over nothing. These are aborted fetuses. Who cares what they do with the remains?"

I'm guessing that would probably not go over well. Don't you think?
 
ocean515 said:
Like the cavalier attitude displayed in your post calamity, the cracking of bones, crushing of skulls, and the ability to identify gender, doesn't play well with average citizens.

If it doesn't matter, perhaps the push back from PP and abortion rights activists should be reconsidered. Why not promote segments of these videos showing the dissection, and the comments being made during the process under the heading of "Much ado over nothing. These are aborted fetuses. Who cares what they do with the remains?"

I'm guessing that would probably not go over well. Don't you think?
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maybe we should stop banning raw footage of war or us drone attacks too.
 
calamity said:
maybe we should stop banning raw footage of war or us drone attacks too.
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Sure. I'm all for that. That would include showing people leaping to their deaths at the World Trade Center. Perhaps that could be done every September 11th.

However, I was referring to the PP video's. Your sprint from that topic is noted.
 
ocean515 said:
Like the cavalier attitude displayed in your post calamity, the cracking of bones, crushing of skulls, and the ability to identify gender, doesn't play well with average citizens.
....
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Dismemberment abortions usually occur between 16 weeks gestation and 20 weeks gestation.
That is the safest way ( for the woman ) to remove the aborted fetus.


I just wanted to let you know that the vast majority of dismemberment abortions occur because the fetus was either non viable
( meaning it has no chance of living outside the womb ) or is it severely malformed.
My good friend's daughter-in-law had to have one these abortions because the fetus was non viable and would never live.

It's very sad but by using the dismemberment method the woman does not have to go through hours of painful labor and agony knowing the malformed fetus she delivers will never live.

I almost had to have my 20 week gestation fetus dismembered because it died within my womb.

I had two miscarriages between my 2 ed and 3rd child.
The first miscarriage was early on. I was about 5 to 6 weeks gestation.

During my 4th pregnancy I went into premature labor when I was about 5 months ( 20 weeks ) gestation.
My husband and I were looking forward to a healthy baby.

Our children ages 7 and 9 were looking forward to having a little brother or sister.

My doctor was out of town so when I went into early labor we ended up at the ER.
They took a pregnancy test and told me I was no longer pregnant.
The doctor covering for my doctor did not want to come in that day so they shot me full of med's to try to stop the labor.
I was scheduled to have a D and E abortion the next day.
The kind of abortion where the fetus is dismembered.

Then they took me to my room on the maternity floor to spend the night.
When I was transferring from the gurney to the bed the fetus was expelled and I accidentally saw it and how malformed it was.

My doctor told me that even if I had carried the pregnancy longer it never would have lived.
He told me the fetus was so malformed that pathology could not tell if the malformed fetus was a boy or girl.
 
ocean515 said:
Sure. I'm all for that. That would include showing people leaping to their deaths at the World Trade Center. Perhaps that could be done every September 11th.

However, I was referring to the PP video's. Your sprint from that topic is noted.
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No "sprint." It's just a known fact that lots of things out there are disgusting, and perhaps immoral. Few people see the treatment given the livestock we eat. And, even fewer know about the details involved when harvesting organs from their loved ones. If they did, less meat, eggs and cheese would be eaten or milk drank, and almost no one would be an an organ donor...not to mention, very few people would ever support going to war.

So, as I see it, this PP exposure is just more poutrage from the usual suspects.
 
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