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Facts about Abortion (IMHO)

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RamFel said:
No, and I'm really not interested. I don't really have time to read it. But if liberals do support Jews, then why does Obama seem to hate them?

Obama’s Betrayal of Israel as a Jewish State | FrontPage Magazine


Front page magazine?? You got to be kidding me?? Why would I worry about a fruit cake magazine that doesn't provide accurate information.

And yet it seems (as you have pointed out) that Jews and Christians are comfortable with being liberals.
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Front page magazine?? You got to be kidding me?? Why would I worry about a fruit cake magazine that doesn't provide accurate information.
 
RAMOSS said:
Front page magazine?? You got to be kidding me?? Why would I worry about a fruit cake magazine that doesn't provide accurate information.
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So do you think Obama likes Israel? What would Jeremiah Wright think?
 
RamFel said:
So do you think Obama likes Israel? What would Jeremiah Wright think?
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Non sequitur, your facts are uncoordinated.
 
RAMOSS said:
Non sequitur, your facts are uncoordinated.
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I just wanted to make the point that liberals don't like Christians and Jews, and the Liberal in Chief is no different.
 
RamFel said:
I just wanted to make the point that liberals don't like Christians and Jews, and the Liberal in Chief is no different.
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Oh goody. More of your "facts".
 
RamFel said:
I just wanted to make the point that liberals don't like Christians and Jews, and the Liberal in Chief is no different.
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I think you are totally mistaken, because, of course, I am a liberal and I am Jewish. And Obama is Christian.
 
RAMOSS said:
I think you are totally mistaken, because, of course, I am a liberal and I am Jewish. And Obama is Christian.
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I didn't make any mistake. There are all types. Some Jews are conservative, and some are liberal. Just how am I mistaken? And Obama might be a Christian, I don't know. But nobody knows Obama better than Obama. Only he can tell you the truth about himself. The question is, does he?
 
RamFel said:
I have always wondered why Jews and Christians become liberal. Barack Obama doesn't defend Israel. Look how he treated the Prime Minister at the beginning of his first term as President. I don't remember the details, but he treated him with the most disrespectful UN-gentlemanly like behavior.

We as a country, unofficially do not defend, and are not really friends with Israel.

Why does Sarah Silverman even question this attitude of Obama's? Why does she hate the conservatives who are the real friends of the Israeli's?

Makes one wonder.
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Israel also has its own conservatives and liberals. Most Israeli liberals know perfectly well that Israel will never be able to have a secure defense, even with significant US help, unless some rapprochement is developed with Palestinians, because it is surrounded and bordered by Palestinians and countries dominated by Arabs. Israel's real friends are those who, while defending it, try to figure out ways to make that rapprochement happen. Obama, like most liberals here and in Israel, grasps this problem. The current PM in Israel is a conservative who does not really get that and whom many Israeli liberals don't like.

Have you ever spent much time with people who have been raised Jewish and liberal? It seems as if you imagine that they think conservatives are their real friends, but most people don't think conservatives are the friends of anyone but other conservatives, because they tend to be very, very pushy and intolerant, and frankly, the majority of Jewish Americans are certainly not that.
 
RamFel said:
Did I say you? And besides, you might have, I don't know. But I was saying that there are those who made such claims.

Specifically ChoiceOne:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/abort...er-decided-not-abort-you-w-197-1025-a-60.html

First paragraph, but in fact, if you read the rest of it, it is just as bad.
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Please be specific in your criticisms, so I can reply. I used the link and can't figure out what post you are referring to. What did I say that you are so annoyed at, and why does it annoy you?
 
RamFel said:
Yep! I get tired of reading junk, might as well write something good.
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Your fictional works will be best sellers amongst your peers. How effective is preaching to the converted in bringing large groups of people to your side?
 
RamFel said:
I just wanted to make the point that liberals don't like Christians and Jews, and the Liberal in Chief is no different.
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RamFel said:
I didn't make any mistake. There are all types. Some Jews are conservative, and some are liberal. Just how am I mistaken? And Obama might be a Christian, I don't know. But nobody knows Obama better than Obama. Only he can tell you the truth about himself. The question is, does he?
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Tell me how your two statements make any sense together.
 
RamFel said:
What lies?

Are you telling me that there isn't anybody on DP who never said these things? Because I can guarantee that these things have been said.

I don't mis represent people, but it looks like you're trying to do it here.
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Then you should have no problem providing quotes.
 
choiceone said:
A vasectomy is not equal to a pregnancy, but to a tubal ligation.
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Who gives a damn? All we're talking about is whether one gender is capable of being informed to vote about an issue related to the other gender. Way to miss the point.

The fact is it's asinine to say a man cannot make an informed decision on something only women have. For you to continue saying otherwise is sexist and a waste of both of our time.
 
minnie616 said:
What do I really want?

I want early abortions on demand to remain legal.

I want to leave the moral decision up to woman who is pregnant whether she should/wants to continue her pregnancy.

She along with whomever she wishes to confide in, ( her husband/lover , her doctor, her clergy, a friend ) knows her health, her mental/emotional stability, her financial stability and whether she wants to continue the pregnancy or not.

I will not support a law or a country that takes away her choice.
Whether that law/country wants to force her to continue a pregnancy or that law/country wants to force her to have an abortion.

That is all I want.
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Those are not the right answers. They're the obvious canned answers. That means that you just don't want to answer. I don't think you really want women to make moral decisions. I think you want the to continue making the same immoral decisions and keep getting abortions. When we get rid of this immoral law, you won't support the law? What a shame!

when people talk like that, it's just sour grapes. May you can find another country to move to.
 
RamFel said:
Those are not the right answers.... I don't think you really want women to make moral decisions. ....
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I do want women to make their own moral decisions about their own pregnancy.
I do not know their health situation, their mental/ emotional situation, their financial situation, etc.
" That which is believed to be a morally responsible decision in one situation may not be another ".

Therefore the decision to continue a pregnancy should not limited by the government, but should be left up to woman.
With reverence for each woman’s autonomy and agency – and with a profound desire to safeguard the religious liberty of each American – RCRC agrees that it is not the place of government to force any one particular reproductive health decision upon any woman. “That which is believed to be a morally responsible decision in one situation may not be in another” (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, 1991). Instead, we are all better served when the government supports the reproductive health decisions of its citizens instead of limiting them.
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Access to Abortion Care | Religious Coalition For Reproductive Choice

Religious Liberty

The freedom of religion is indeed our first freedom and a universally treasured American value dating back to the founding of our nation. As a diverse coalition of religious denominations and religiously-affiliated organizations, the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice has an intimate understanding of the important role faith plays in one’s personal and public life. For many people of faith, our world view is informed by our religious values and upbringing. Naturally, many of us put our faith into action to advance our own understanding of mutual uplifting and common good. RCRC certainly relies on the religious values of our member organizations to advance health, dignity and justice for women. However, the First Amendment makes clear that public policy is not to be based on faith alone – in a religiously diverse, pluralistic society, favoring any one religious worldview is wrong and inherently biased.

Good policy is policy that allows for all people – regardless of their religious identity – to follow their own faith and conscience when directing the course of their life. When it comes to matters of reproductive health, RCRC believes that real religious liberty protects the right of a woman to make thoughtful decisions in private consultation with her doctor, her family, and her own faith. Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual.
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http://rcrc.org/homepage/policy/religious-liberty/
 
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RamFel said:
Those are not the right answers. They're the obvious canned answers. That means that you just don't want to answer. I don't think you really want women to make moral decisions.
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Actually, we get to decide for OURSELVES what is the "right answer" or not. And you don't get to decide what is right or wrong for anyone but yourself. Thank goodness for THAT.

As for "moral decisions," all women, myself included, can make those for ourselves too. Whether or not YOU like our answers or decisions is irrelevant, since you just aren't that important.
 
Slyfox696 said:
Who gives a damn? All we're talking about is whether one gender is capable of being informed to vote about an issue related to the other gender. Way to miss the point.

The fact is it's asinine to say a man cannot make an informed decision on something only women have. For you to continue saying otherwise is sexist and a waste of both of our time.
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Actually, I'm not the one who started this, and for me, it isn't a question of practical concern, because there is not a significant difference in the percentages of pro-choice/anti-choice position taking by gender in the US.

But I am saying that, if a man or a woman not capable of child-bearing takes an anti-abortion position in terms of law, no matter how principled and informed it is, he/she is exhibiting a greater degree of injustice by his behavior than is a woman capable of child-bearing. It is illogical to claim otherwise, because those people are immune in this world from impartial retaliatory punishment of the same order.
 
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RamFel said:
Those are not the right answers. They're the obvious canned answers. That means that you just don't want to answer. I don't think you really want women to make moral decisions. I think you want the to continue making the same immoral decisions and keep getting abortions. When we get rid of this immoral law, you won't support the law? What a shame!

when people talk like that, it's just sour grapes. May you can find another country to move to.
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The only sour grapes on these threads are those of the anti-abortion people, because those who wanted voluntary induced abortion to be legal got their wish and have their wish, and anti-abortion people are still trying to figure out why God has consistently refused to answer their prayers and has answered those of their opponents.
 
choiceone said:
Actually, I'm not the one who started this
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But you came in on it of your own volition. So the least you can do is have the ability to converse on what's actually being discussed.
 
Slyfox696 said:
Who gives a damn? All we're talking about is whether one gender is capable of being informed to vote about an issue related to the other gender. Way to miss the point.

The fact is it's asinine to say a man cannot make an informed decision on something only women have. For you to continue saying otherwise is sexist and a waste of both of our time.
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I will say it a little differently. No man or woman can make an informed decision on behalf of another man or woman (outside of when they are legally allowed to do so -i.e. DPOA)

Men and women should be responsible for their own medical/health decision.
 
year2late said:
I will say it a little differently. No man or woman can make an informed decision on behalf of another man or woman (outside of when they are legally allowed to do so -i.e. DPOA)

Men and women should be responsible for their own medical/health decision.
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Take gender out of it, as gender has nothing to do with it. You can say one SPECIFIC PERSON cannot make an informed decision about another SPECIFIC PERSON, but there is absolutely nothing which says men cannot make informed decisions about women.
 
Slyfox696 said:
But you came in on it of your own volition. So the least you can do is have the ability to converse on what's actually being discussed.
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That's what I thought I was doing. As I said, this isn't about gender. It is about genuine fairness of perspective. It's just wrong to impose anything on others that can't possibly be imposed on oneself, because that means constructing a fundamentally inegalitarian reality.
 
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choiceone said:
The only sour grapes on these threads are those of the anti-abortion people, because those who wanted voluntary induced abortion to be legal got their wish and have their wish, and anti-abortion people are still trying to figure out why God has consistently refused to answer their prayers and has answered those of their opponents.
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No sour grapes. I just disagree, but am not angry. You may be confident now, but I figure not for much longer, God willing, but I leave it in His hands. That last sentence is a pretty brash one. Do you really believe he would answer a prayer request like abortion?

I think not.
 
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