• We will be taking the server down at approximately 3:30 AM ET on Wednesday, 10/8/25. We have a hard drive that is in the early stages of failure and this is necessary to prevent data loss. We hope to be back up and running quickly, however this process could take some time.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Unintended Consequences of Personhood Status for the Unborn Part II

Consequences of Personhood Status for the Unborn


  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .

Removable Mind

Irremovable Intelligence
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2011
Messages
25,803
Reaction score
20,579
Location
Austin, Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Unintended Consequences of Personhood Status for the Unborn PART II

Some contents are repeated from Unintended Consequences of Personhood Status for the Unborn Part I


I’ve seen a number of pro-life posters in DP make the assertion that “Personhood for the Unborn” should be Constitutionally mandated. My observation is that most, if not all, pro-life advocates are simply not aware of the consequences of bestowing personhood on any or all stages of development.

Legislative efforts in various states have failed to enact bills for "personhood" for all stages of the unborn.

If passed and enforced, a "personhood" measure would affect the meaning of the criminal law, mandating harsh legal penalties for harm done to zygotes, embryos, and fetuses. Intentionally harming a zygote would be a crime of the same magnitude as harming a born infant, and intentionally killing a zygote would be murder.

Consider this: A person commits the crime of murder in the first degree if, after deliberation, and with the intent to cause the death of a person. Thus, if a zygote is legally a person from the moment of fertilization, then any intentional act of preventing it from implanting (such as by taking the "morning after" pill) or aborting an embryo or fetus would be first-degree murder.

In my humble opinion, "personhood" bills presented thus far, if enacted and enforce would create a police-state nightmare for countless women, their partners, and their doctors.


The following is a partial list of “Unintended Consequences of Personhood”, which, for the most part, haven’t been presented to constituents by legislators when attempting to hustle them into voting in personhood laws:

1. Since more than one egg is harvested and fertilized to achieve a successful IVF pregnancy, making all the embryos “people” under law will make it difficult if not impossible to continue offering IVF treatment in our state.


2. When embryos are created and frozen as a part of reproductive fertility treatments, these embryos will be legally persons if this initiative passes, and consequently will have all the rights due persons. The problems resulting from this change would be many.


3. If embryos are people, is the freezing of embryos considered child abuse? If so, what is the role of the Department of Human Services?


4. Are these the types of social and judicial consequences we want to impose on virtually every woman in our nation? A government and people causing consequences the same or similar to those listed above would be very close to the oppressive laws demonstrated by the Taliban and other radical, extremists groups and governments in the Middle East.Will these embryos be given names (non-birth certificates)?


5. If one of these embryos “dies” in some part of the in vitro fertilization process, what kind of investigation will be conducted?


6. Could the technician be tried for manslaughter? Are the county coroners equipped to do this task? What kind of death certificate will be issued?


7. Are the courts ready to apply Termination of Parental Rights laws to embryos? Adoption laws? Home visits as required by adoption law?


8. Does any embryo entering the U.S. (having been conceived elsewhere), are they a citizen?


9. What are the property rights of these embryos? Inheritance rights?


10. If more than five unrelated embryos/persons are housed in a single building, will it have to be licensed as a child residential care home?


11. Where local ordinances limiting occupancy to two persons in a bedroom. If pregnant women are two people, can she be in the same bed as her husband?


12. Effective treatment of tubal pregnancies, severe preeclampsia and molar gestation could be prevented.


13. New stem cell treatments for patients with Parkinson’s, Lou Gehrig’s disease, and cancers like leukemia and choriocarcinoma would be terminated if it requires embryos for treatments.


14. If a physician is faced with the choice of saving a woman’s life or refusing to harm an embryo/person, could he or she be sued for malpractice no matter what choice was made?


15. Lawyers interfering in a family’s personal medical decisions will become common place.


16. If a rape victim uses the morning after pill to prevent pregnancy, is she charged with manslaughter?


17. Will birth control have the same societal stigma as an "assault weapon?"


18. The unborn will become an automatic beneficiary where intestate estates occur.


19. If a mother has an abortion when her life is threatened, will doctors be charged for second-degree murder? Would the mother be charged with accessory to murder or just get off with self-defense?


20. The number of malpractice suits that would take place will increase significantly. Think what this would do to a state that already ranks 50th in the nation for healthcare.

21. If a woman drinks a glass of wine during pregnancy, will the courts charge her with child neglect or child abuse?


22. The unborn may qualify to automatically receive government assistance.


23. 15% to 20% of pregnancies sadly result in miscarriages. Police going to have to investigate each miscarriage as a possible homicide. Significant numbers of police will have to be employed to carry out investigations.


24. From the moment a conception has been medically declared, a Social Security number must be issued?


25. Will parents be able obtain life insurance on the unborn for unlimited amounts from the moment conception has been medically declared?


26. Personhood would subject women and their doctors to first-degree murder charges for willfully terminating a pregnancy, with the required punishment of life in prison or the death penalty.


27. Imposing Personhood would extend far beyond abortion into the personal corners of every couple's reproductive life. It would outlaw many forms of birth control, including the pill, IUD, and "morning after" drugs.


Are these the types of social and judicial consequences we want to impose on virtually every woman in our nation? A government and people causing consequences the same or similar to those listed above would be very close to the oppressive laws demonstrated by the Taliban and other radical, extremists groups and governments in the Middle East.


AGAIN, THIS IS PART II of UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES Of PERSONHOOD STATUS FOR THE UNBORN.
 
Seems arguing against person hood, due to it's possible social and cultural impact is going backwards and only underlines a rather superficial understanding of ideas like 'human rights".
 
Seems arguing against person hood, due to it's possible social and cultural impact is going backwards and only underlines a rather superficial understanding of ideas like 'human rights".

I just do not think it very smart to allow the state or any other majority define what is a human and what is not. It becomes arbitrary and any argument is then as good as any other. It only depends on the power of the group holding the opinion to enforce.
 
None of your arguments seem to apply after the 20 weeks of development stage. If it is manslaughter for a stranger to terminate the life of the unborn (by criminal or negligent action), then it stands to reason that we are allowing some definition of rights to the unborn. All that I want is consistency within the laws, perhaps we can make abortion after 20 weeks have some sort of self defense exception for the potential mother.

Fetal Homicide State Laws
 
None of your arguments seem to apply after the 20 weeks of development stage. If it is manslaughter for a stranger to terminate the life of the unborn (by criminal or negligent action), then it stands to reason that we are allowing some definition of rights to the unborn. All that I want is consistency within the laws, perhaps we can make abortion after 20 weeks have some sort of self defense exception for the potential mother.

Fetal Homicide State Laws

You'll have to get past JUST the fetal homicide argument. There are many, many more consequences involved.
 
I just do not think it very smart to allow the state or any other majority define what is a human and what is not. It becomes arbitrary and any argument is then as good as any other. It only depends on the power of the group holding the opinion to enforce.

No not what defines a human. It's what defines a person.

There is also to nothing arbitrary about defining the word person.
 
No not what defines a human. It's what defines a person.

There is also to nothing arbitrary about defining the word person.

I think there is always going to be a degree of arbitrariness to it, given the fact that it's more a qualitative assessment than a quantitative one.
 
I think there is always going to be a degree of arbitrariness to it, given the fact that it's more a qualitative assessment than a quantitative one.

It can be arbitrary I guess to decide what entities should have rights and entities that shouldn't have rights
 
Most of that was just ridiculous.
 
Most of that was just ridiculous.

I think that some of it is but some of it is what would be the logical conclusion if your side wants to persist that two or five cell humans are persons.
 
I think that some of it is but some of it is what would be the logical conclusion if your side wants to persist that two or five cell humans are persons.

Yes, but that idea should fail on it's own absurd logic, not because it would complicate our lives.
 
Yes, but that idea should fail on it's own absurd logic, not because it would complicate our lives.

I think that the point of enumerating the ways that it would complicate law is an attempt to make the absurdity apparent to people otherwise just do not get it.
 
I think that the point of enumerating the ways that it would complicate law is an attempt to make the absurdity apparent to people otherwise just do not get it.

lol, no it's a stupid and moronic way to argue something that should be granted on it's own merits, not based on how socially and culturally convenient we find it.
 
The fact of the matter is that most fertilized eggs never turn out to become a human being. We should wait to endow rights until we know that it is going to end up a person
 
Unintended Consequences of Personhood Status for the Unborn PART II

Some contents are repeated from Unintended Consequences of Personhood Status for the Unborn Part I


I’ve seen a number of pro-life posters in DP make the assertion that “Personhood for the Unborn” should be Constitutionally mandated. My observation is that most, if not all, pro-life advocates are simply not aware of the consequences of bestowing personhood on any or all stages of development.

Legislative efforts in various states have failed to enact bills for "personhood" for all stages of the unborn.

If passed and enforced, a "personhood" measure would affect the meaning of the criminal law, mandating harsh legal penalties for harm done to zygotes, embryos, and fetuses. Intentionally harming a zygote would be a crime of the same magnitude as harming a born infant, and intentionally killing a zygote would be murder.

Consider this: A person commits the crime of murder in the first degree if, after deliberation, and with the intent to cause the death of a person. Thus, if a zygote is legally a person from the moment of fertilization, then any intentional act of preventing it from implanting (such as by taking the "morning after" pill) or aborting an embryo or fetus would be first-degree murder.

In my humble opinion, "personhood" bills presented thus far, if enacted and enforce would create a police-state nightmare for countless women, their partners, and their doctors.


The following is a partial list of “Unintended Consequences of Personhood”, which, for the most part, haven’t been presented to constituents by legislators when attempting to hustle them into voting in personhood laws:

1. Since more than one egg is harvested and fertilized to achieve a successful IVF pregnancy, making all the embryos “people” under law will make it difficult if not impossible to continue offering IVF treatment in our state.


2. When embryos are created and frozen as a part of reproductive fertility treatments, these embryos will be legally persons if this initiative passes, and consequently will have all the rights due persons. The problems resulting from this change would be many.


3. If embryos are people, is the freezing of embryos considered child abuse? If so, what is the role of the Department of Human Services?


4. Are these the types of social and judicial consequences we want to impose on virtually every woman in our nation? A government and people causing consequences the same or similar to those listed above would be very close to the oppressive laws demonstrated by the Taliban and other radical, extremists groups and governments in the Middle East.Will these embryos be given names (non-birth certificates)?


5. If one of these embryos “dies” in some part of the in vitro fertilization process, what kind of investigation will be conducted?


6. Could the technician be tried for manslaughter? Are the county coroners equipped to do this task? What kind of death certificate will be issued?


7. Are the courts ready to apply Termination of Parental Rights laws to embryos? Adoption laws? Home visits as required by adoption law?


8. Does any embryo entering the U.S. (having been conceived elsewhere), are they a citizen?


9. What are the property rights of these embryos? Inheritance rights?


10. If more than five unrelated embryos/persons are housed in a single building, will it have to be licensed as a child residential care home?


11. Where local ordinances limiting occupancy to two persons in a bedroom. If pregnant women are two people, can she be in the same bed as her husband?


12. Effective treatment of tubal pregnancies, severe preeclampsia and molar gestation could be prevented.


13. New stem cell treatments for patients with Parkinson’s, Lou Gehrig’s disease, and cancers like leukemia and choriocarcinoma would be terminated if it requires embryos for treatments.


14. If a physician is faced with the choice of saving a woman’s life or refusing to harm an embryo/person, could he or she be sued for malpractice no matter what choice was made?


15. Lawyers interfering in a family’s personal medical decisions will become common place.


16. If a rape victim uses the morning after pill to prevent pregnancy, is she charged with manslaughter?


17. Will birth control have the same societal stigma as an "assault weapon?"


18. The unborn will become an automatic beneficiary where intestate estates occur.


19. If a mother has an abortion when her life is threatened, will doctors be charged for second-degree murder? Would the mother be charged with accessory to murder or just get off with self-defense?


20. The number of malpractice suits that would take place will increase significantly. Think what this would do to a state that already ranks 50th in the nation for healthcare.

21. If a woman drinks a glass of wine during pregnancy, will the courts charge her with child neglect or child abuse?


22. The unborn may qualify to automatically receive government assistance.


23. 15% to 20% of pregnancies sadly result in miscarriages. Police going to have to investigate each miscarriage as a possible homicide. Significant numbers of police will have to be employed to carry out investigations.


24. From the moment a conception has been medically declared, a Social Security number must be issued?


25. Will parents be able obtain life insurance on the unborn for unlimited amounts from the moment conception has been medically declared?


26. Personhood would subject women and their doctors to first-degree murder charges for willfully terminating a pregnancy, with the required punishment of life in prison or the death penalty.


27. Imposing Personhood would extend far beyond abortion into the personal corners of every couple's reproductive life. It would outlaw many forms of birth control, including the pill, IUD, and "morning after" drugs.


Are these the types of social and judicial consequences we want to impose on virtually every woman in our nation? A government and people causing consequences the same or similar to those listed above would be very close to the oppressive laws demonstrated by the Taliban and other radical, extremists groups and governments in the Middle East.


AGAIN, THIS IS PART II of UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES Of PERSONHOOD STATUS FOR THE UNBORN.
*citations needed*

OP is an Appeal to Consequence Fallacy, nothing more.
 
Last edited:
*citations needed*

OP is an Appeal to Consequence Fallacy, nothing more.


I do keep notes, Jerry. Looking back through the various sites, articles, etc... that I read to create UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES: Now this the first PAGE OF SEVERAL MORE PAGES of the list of citations....so expect more...

[1] "Roe v. Wade," United States Supreme Court, 410 U.S. 113, January 22, 1973, FindLaw, [106]http://laws.findlaw.com/us/410/113.html[107] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[2] "Declaration on Procured Abortion," Vatican, June 28, 1974,Declaration on procured abortion, 18 November 1974[108] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[3] Leslie Reagan, When Abortion Was a Crime (University of California Press, 1997), p. 7.
[4] "George W. Bush on Abortion," On the Issues, George W. Bush on Abortion[109] (accessed August 24, 2010); "John McCain on Abortion, On the Issues, John McCain on Abortion[110] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[5] Pope Paul VI, Humanae Vitae, Vatican, July 25, 1968, Humanae Vitae - Encyclical Letter of His Holiness Paul VI on the regulation of birth, 25 July 1968[111] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[6] "The Bible and Abortion," Colorado Right to Life, CRTL: The Bible and Abortion | Colorado Right To Life[112] (accessed August 26, 2010).
[7] "Welcome to Personhood USA: What Is Personhood?", Personhood USA, "1 in 3" campaign is all about denial » Personhood USA[113] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[8] "John McCain's Tragic Pro-Abortion Record," American Right to Life Action, October 12, 2008, John McCain's Tragic Pro-Abortion Record | American RTL Action[114] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[9] Frank Lambert, Religion In American Politics: A Short History (Princeton University Press, 2008), p. 189-190.
[10] Personhood USA, Home » Personhood USA[115] (accessed August 28, 2010).
[11] "About Us," Personhood USA, http://www.personhoodusa.com/about[116] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[12] "Life Counts," Colorado for Equal Rights, 2008, http://www.coloradoforequalrights.com/files/cer_info_sheet.pdf[117] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[13] Peter J. Smith, "Historic Chance to Defeat Roe v. Wade on the Ballot in Colorado," LifeSiteNews.com, May 30, 2008,Historic Chance to Defeat Roe v. Wade on the Ballot in Colorado | News | LifeSite[118] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[14] "CRTL 2008 Candidate Questionnaire," Colorado Right to Life, CRTL 2008 Candidate Questionnaire | Colorado Right To Life[119](accessed August 24, 2010).
[15] Chelsea Schilling, "'Personhood' Movement Explodes in 32 States," World Net Daily, October 31, 2009, ‘Personhood’ movement explodes in 32 states[120] (accessed August 24, 2010). This article is promoted by Personhood USA athttp://www.personhoodusa.com/content/personhood-movement-explodes-32-states-world-net-daily[121] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[16] "Gallup Polls Prove that Personhood is working to change America," Personhood USA, http://www.personhoodusa.com/content/personhood-usa-first-year-review[122] (accessed August 28, 2010).
[17] "Abortion," Gallup, polling results from May 3-6, 2010, Abortion | Gallup Historical Trends[123] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[18] "Colorado Amendment 2008 Election Results," Denver Post, Amendment 2008 election results in Colorado: Results: Elections: The Denver Post[124] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[19] "South Dakota Abortion Ban, Initiated Measure 11 (2008)," BallotPedia,http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/South_Dakota_Abortion_Ban,_Initiated_Measure_11_(2008[125]) (accessed August 24, 2010); Tiffany Sharples, "Ballot Initiatives: No to Gay Marriage, Anti-Abortion Measures," Time, November 5, 2008, Ballot Initiatives: No to Gay Marriage, Anti-Abortion Measures - TIME[126](accessed August 24, 2010).
[20] Robin Abcarian, "A New Push to Define 'Person,' and to Outlaw Abortion in the Process," Los Angeles Times, September 28, 2009,A new push to define 'person,' and to outlaw abortion in the process - Los Angeles Times[127] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[21] The Personhood CO web page lists a copyright by Personhood USA; see A Voice for Brady | Vote YES on 67[128] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[22] The Colorado Secretary of State lists Gualberto Garcia Jones and Leslie Hanks as the proponents of the 2010 "personhood" measure; seehttp://www.elections.colorado.gov/Content/Documents/Initiatives/Statement%20of%20Sufficiency.pdf[129] (accessed August 24, 2010). As of mid-2010, Leslie Hanks was listed as vice president of Colorado Right to Life; see Statement of Values | Colorado Right To Life[130] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[23] Colorado Secretary of State, Elections & Voting[131] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[24] Ed Quillen, "Colorado's Zygote Zealots," Denver Post, August 8, 2010, Quillen: Colorado's zygote zealots - The Denver Post[132] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[25] "CRTL 2008 Candidate Questionnaire," Colorado Right to Life, CRTL 2008 Candidate Questionnaire | Colorado Right To Life[133](accessed August 24, 2010); "CRTL 2010 Candidate Questionnaire," Colorado Right to Life, CRTL 2010 Candidate Survey | Colorado Right To Life[134] (accessed August 24, 2010).
 
*citations needed*

OP is an Appeal to Consequence Fallacy, nothing more.

Another Page, Jerry...

[26] Colorado Right to Life published pdf documents from the candidates in 2008 that the authors saved in their personal archives. Regarding Jeff Crank, see alsohttp://www.jeffcrank.com/[135] and Nothing found for 012510 Afp Colorado State Director Jeff Crank[136] (both accessed August 24, 2010).
[27] "Colorado State & Federal Candidate Positions & Survey Responses--May 2010," Colorado Right to Life Blog, May 17, 2010,The Colorado Right to Life Blog: Colorado State & Federal Candidate Positions & Survey Responses - May 2010[137] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[28] Ed Hanks, "Analysis of GOP Primary Results," August 11, 2010, Looking On the Right Side, Look On the Right Side: Analysis of GOP Primary Results[138] (accessed August 24, 2010). Colorado Right to Life promotes Hanks's article at Personhood Wins Big in Colo Primaries | Colorado Right To Life[139] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[29] "Colorado State & Federal Candidate Positions & Survey Responses--May 2010," Colorado Right to Life Blog, May 17, 2010,The Colorado Right to Life Blog: Colorado State & Federal Candidate Positions & Survey Responses - May 2010[140] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[30] Ari Armstrong, "By Endorsing Horrific 'Personhood' Measure, Republicans Court Defeat," Free Colorado, May 29, 2010,http://blog.ariarmstrong.com/2010/05/by-endorsing-horrific-personhood.html[141] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[31] "Colorado State & Federal Candidate Positions & Survey Responses--May 2010," Colorado Right to Life Blog, May 17, 2010,The Colorado Right to Life Blog: Colorado State & Federal Candidate Positions & Survey Responses - May 2010[142] (accessed August 24, 2010); Ari Armstrong, "Maes Afflicted with GOP's Abortion Schizophrenia," Free Colorado, May 27, 2010, http://blog.ariarmstrong.com/2010/05/maes-afflicted-with-gops-abortion.html[143] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[32] Steven K. Paulson, "Maes Picks Williams as Running Mate in Colorado Governor's Race," Associated Press, August 17, 2010,Maes picks Williams as running mate in Colorado governor's race | SummitDaily.com[144] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[33] Greg Sargent, "GOP Senate Candidate: No Abortion in Cases of Rape or Incest," Washington Post, August 3, 2010, The Plum Line - GOP Senate candidate: No abortion in cases of rape or incest[145] (accessed August 24, 2010); "Candidate Survey--Jane Norton, United States Senate," Adams County Republicans, http://www.adcorepublicans.com/2010/01/candidate-survey---jane-norton-united-states-senate/[146] (accessed August 24, 2010); "Colorado State & Federal Candidate Positions & Survey Responses--May 2010," Colorado Right to Life Blog, May 17, 2010,The Colorado Right to Life Blog: Colorado State & Federal Candidate Positions & Survey Responses - May 2010[147] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[34] Ari Armstrong, "Resolved: Republicans Are Schizophrenic on Abortion," Free Colorado, May 25, 2010, http://blog.ariarmstrong.com/2010/05/resolved-republicans-are-schizophrenic.html[148] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[35] Linn Armstrong and Ari Armstrong, "Hank Brown Rallies Republican Majority for Choice," Free Colorado, September 15, 2008,http://www.freecolorado.com/2008/09/hank-brown-rallies-republican-majority.html[149] (accessed August 24, 2010). This article originally was published byGrand Junction Free Press at Hank Brown rallies Republican majority for choice | PostIndependent.com[150] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[36] "Personhood USA Marks 1st Anniversary; Announces Strategy for 2010...Personhood In Every State," Personhood USA, November 5, 2009,Personhood USA Marks 1st Anniversary; Announces Strategy for 2010...Personhood In Every State. » Personhood USA[151] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[37] Jim Galloway, "Morning Jolt: A Test of Clout for Georgia Right to Life," Atlanta Journal-Constitution, July 22, 2010, Your morning jolt: A test of influence for Georgia Right to Life | Political Insider[152] (accessed August 24, 2010). See also the media release by Georgia Right To Life, "Georgia Voters Say YES on Personhood Amendment," reproduced at Georgia Voters Say YES on Personhood Amendment. » Personhood USA[153] (accessed August 24, 2010).
 
*citations needed*

OP is an Appeal to Consequence Fallacy, nothing more.

ANOTHER PAGE, JERRY...

[38] "Coming To a Ballot Near You: When Does Life Begin?", Georgia Right to Life, May 10, 2010,http://www.grtl.org/docs/Press Release May 10 final.pdf[154] (accessed August 24, 2010); Jim Galloway, "Morning Jolt: A Test of Clout for Georgia Right to Life," Atlanta Journal-Constitution, July 22, 2010, Your morning jolt: A test of influence for Georgia Right to Life | Political Insider[155] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[39] Jim Galloway, "Morning Jolt: A Test of Clout for Georgia Right to Life," Atlanta Journal-Constitution, July 22, 2010, Your morning jolt: A test of influence for Georgia Right to Life | Political Insider[156] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[40] "Coming To a Ballot Near You: When Does Life Begin?", Georgia Right to Life, May 10, 2010,http://www.grtl.org/docs/Press Release May 10 final.pdf[157] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[41] Aaron Gould Sheinin, "Handel concedes GOP nomination for governor to Deal," Atlanta Journal-Constitution, August 11, 2010,Handel concedes GOP nomination for governor to Deal | Georgia Elections News[158] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[42] "Coming To a Ballot Near You: When Does Life Begin?", Georgia Right to Life, May 10, 2010,http://www.grtl.org/docs/Press Release May 10 final.pdf[159] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[43] Electa Draper, "Huckabee Endorses 'Personhood' Amendment," Denver Post, February 26, 2008, Huckabee endorses 'personhood' amendment - The Denver Post[160](accessed August 24, 2010).
[44] "Constitutional Initiative No. 102 (CI-102)," Montana Secretary of State, 2010 Ballot Issues, Montana Secretary of State[161] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[45] Charles Johnson, "3 Ballot Issues Qualify for Fall Ballot," Billings Gazette, July 19, 2010, 3 ballot issues qualify for fall ballot[162] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[46] "Personhood in Montana Delayed, Not Defeated," Personhood USA, July 20, 2010, Press Release: Personhood In Montana Delayed, Not Defeated. » Personhood USA[163] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[47]Letter from P. Leslie Riley, Jr., Mississippi Secretary of State, November 22, 2008, http://www.sos.ms.gov/links/elections/home/tab2/26text.pdf[164] (accessed August 24, 2010). See also 404 We Are Sorry, We Cannot Find That Page[165] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[48] Emily Wagster Pettus, "Suit Seeks to Block Miss. 'Personhood' Initiative," Associated Press, July 15, 2010,Suit seeks to block Miss. 'personhood' initiative - Daily Journal[166] (accessed August 24, 2010). See also the Personhood USA release at Personhood Mississippi responds to lawsuit against right to life and right to vote in Mississippi. » Personhood USA[167] (accessed August 24, 2010).
 
*citations needed*

OP is an Appeal to Consequence Fallacy, nothing more.

ANOTHER PAGE, JERRY....

[49] "Liberty Counsel Helps Personhood in MS," Personhood USA, August 12, 2010, Liberty Counsel helps personhood in MS. » Personhood USA[168] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[50] Craig E. Campell Letter to Christopher Kurka, Alaska Lieutenant Governor's Office, October 22, 2009,http://ltgov.state.ak.us/pdfs/elections/initiatives/2009/09LPHB_Certification_SponsorLetter.pdf[169] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[51] "Citizen's Initiatives," Alaska Lieutenant Governor's Office, http://ltgov.state.ak.us/initiatives/index.php[170] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[52] Ibid.
[53] Alaska Lieutenant Governor's Office, http://ltgov.state.ak.us/pdfs/elections/initiatives/2009/09LPHB.pdf[171] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[54] Sean Cockerham, "New Fight Develops Over Rights of Fetuses," Anchorage Daily News, November 28, 2010, http://www.adn.com/2009/11/27/1031558/new-fight-develops-over-rights.html[172] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[55] Nevada Secretary of State, http://nvsos.gov/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=1250[173] (accessed August 24, 2010). Ballotpedia provided the link to the document; see http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Nevada_Personhood_Amendment_(2012[174]) (accessed August 24, 2010).
[56] Ed Vogel, "Lack of Signatures Will Keep Anti-Abortion Amendment off Ballot: PersonhoodUSA to Try Again in 2012 to Get Measure on the Ballot," Las Vegas Review-Journal, June 10, 2010, Lack of signatures will keep anti-abortion amendment off ballot | Las Vegas Review-Journal[175] (accessed August 24, 2010). See also "Personhood Nevada Denied Right to Circulate Petition; Prepares for 2012," Personhood USA, Personhood Nevada Denied Right to Circulate Petition; Prepares for 2012 » Personhood USA[176] (accessed August 24, 2010); "Tyrant Judges Trample 1st Amendment Rights in Nevada," Personhood USA, Tyrant Judges Trample 1st Amendment Rights In Nevada. » Personhood USA[177] (accessed August 24, 2010); and "Respondent's Answering Brief," ACLU, http://www.aclu.org/files/assets/Respondents__Answering_Brief_201003262.pdf[178] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[57] Brian Duggan, "'Personhood' Bill Fails," Bismarck Tribune, April 3, 2009, 'Personhood' bill fails[179] (accessed August 24, 2010). See also "North Dakota Personhood Bill Passes, First in US History," Personhood USA,40 years of success » Personhood USA[180] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[58] Matthew Strozier, "Personhood Florida: The Ballot Language," Sun Sentinel, September 24, 2009, Personhood Florida: the ballot language | Palm Beach Politics blog[181] (accessed August 24, 2010); "Florida Personhood Amendment (2010)," Ballotpedia, http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Florida_Personhood_Amendment_(2010[182]) (accessed August 24, 2010).
[59] "California Human Rights Amendment," California Civil Rights Foundation, http://www.civilrightsfoundation.org/pdfs/chra_churchbulletin.pdf[183] (accessed August 24, 2010); Steven Ertelt, "California Personhood Amendment on Abortion Fails to Qualify for 2010 Ballot," LifeNews.com, April 28, 2010,California Personhood Amendment on Abortion Fails to Qualify for 2010 Ballot | LifeNews.com[184] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[60] "Missouri Group Launches Campaign for Personhood Rights of Pre-Born Babies," Personhood USA, September 18, 2009,http://www.personhoodusa.com/conten...es-campaign-personhood-rights-pre-born-babies[185] (accessed August 24, 2010).
 
*citations needed*

OP is an Appeal to Consequence Fallacy, nothing more.

ANOTHER PAGE, JERRY....DO YOU NEED MORE?

[61] "Abortion Law to Take Effect Without Signing," Associated Press, July 15, 2010, Abortion law to take effect without signing - Columbia Daily Tribune | Columbia Missouri: Wire[186] (accessed August 24, 2010). See also Tim Townsend, "New Mo. Abortion Law Counters Some philosophy, Theology," StlToday.com, August 22, 2010, New Mo. abortion law counters some philosophy, theology : Lifestyles[187] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[62] "Missouri Victory for Women and Babies! SB 793 Becomes Law!", Missouri Right to Life, July 15, 2010,Missouri Right to Life[188] (accessed August 24, 2010); Personhood Missouri, http://www.personhoodmissouri.com/[189] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[63] Daniel S. Sullivan and Michael A. Barnhill, Letter to Lieutenant Governor Craig E. Campbell, October 22, 2009,http://ltgov.state.ak.us/pdfs/elections/initiatives/2009/09LPHB_Certification_Law.pdf[190] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[64] Colorado Legislature,http://www.leg.state.co.us/lcs/initrefr/0708initrefr.nsf/89fb842d0401c52087256cbc00650696/16f403e0c19126f98725744b0050fd4d/$file/amendment%2048.pdf[191](accessed August 24, 2010).
[65] Peter Marcus, "'Personhood' Redefined," Denver Daily News, July 20, 2009, thedenverdailynews.com[192] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[66] "Questions About Personhood?", Personhood Colorado, http://personhoodcolorado.com/content/questions-about-personhood[193] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[67] On Bob Enyart Live, Enyart says, "Abortion [in] the law should be murder, and if you commit murder, you get put to death. And if the woman is a willing accomplice, she also would be put to death." See Libertyville Abortion Demonstration Response - YouTube[194] (accessed August 24, 2010). Enyart is pastor of Denver Bible Church; see http://denverbiblechurch.org/enyart (accessed August 24, 2010).
[68] "Personhood Campaign Guidelines," American Right to Life, Personhood Campaign Guidelines | American Right To Life[195] (accessed August 24, 2010); "Abortion & Capital Punishment," American Right to Life, Abortion and the Death Penalty | American Right To Life[196] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[69] L. Indra Lusero and Lynn M. Paltrow, "Amendment 48: It's dangerous to women," Denver Post, Amendment 48: It's dangerous to women - The Denver Post[197] (accessed August 29, 2010).
[70] Joyce A. Martin, et al., "Births: Final Data for 2006," National Vital Statistics Reports, vol. 57, no. 7, January 7, 2009,http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr57/nvsr57_07.pdf[198] (accessed August 24, 2010).
 
*citations needed*

OP is an Appeal to Consequence Fallacy, nothing more.

OH WHAT THE HELL, LET'S DO ONE MORE PAGE, JERRY....PSSSSSSSTTTTT...and I've got more....quite a few more.

[70] Joyce A. Martin, et al., "Births: Final Data for 2006," National Vital Statistics Reports, vol. 57, no. 7, January 7, 2009,http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr57/nvsr57_07.pdf[198] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[71] Karen Pazol, et al., "Abortion Surveillance--United States, 2006," Center for Chronic Disease Prevention and Health Promotion, November 27, 2009,Abortion Surveillance --- United States, 2006[199] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[72] "State Facts About Abortion: Colorado," Guttmacher Institute, State Facts About Abortion: Colorado[200] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[73] Karen Pazol, et al., "Abortion Surveillance--United States, 2006," Center for Chronic Disease Prevention and Health Promotion, November 27, 2009,Abortion Surveillance --- United States, 2006[201] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[74] Lawrence B. Finer, et al., "Reasons U.S. Women Have Abortions: Quantitative and Qualitative Perspectives," Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health, vol. 37, no. 3, September, 2005, p. 113, published by Guttmacher Institute, http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/psrh/full/3711005.pdf[202] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[75] "Abortion," Gallup, polling results from May 3-6, 2010 and earlier, Abortion | Gallup Historical Trends[203] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[76] Rachel Benson Gold, "Lessons from Before Roe: Will Past be Prologue?", Guttmacher Report on Public Policy, vol. 6, no. 1, March 2003,Lessons from Before Roe: Will Past be Prologue?[204] (accessed August 24, 2010). For more on the history of abortion-related deaths, see Dave Kopel, "Echoes of Abortion Fraud," May 5, 2007, Echoes of abortion fraud[205] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[77] Jeani Chang, et al., "Pregnancy-Related Mortality Surveillance--United States, 1991-1999," Centers for Disease Control, Surveillance Summaries, February 21, 2003, Pregnancy-Related Mortality Surveillance --- United States, 1991--1999[206] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[78] "State Facts About Abortion: Colorado," Guttmacher Institute, State Facts About Abortion: Colorado[207] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[79] "Scare Tactic Alert," Personhood Colorado, http://personhoodcolorado.com/content/scare-tactic-alert[208] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[80] "Statement of Values," Colorado Right to Life, Statement of Values | Colorado Right To Life[209] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[81] "CRTL 2010 Candidate Questionnaire," Colorado Right to Life, CRTL 2010 Candidate Survey | Colorado Right To Life[210] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[82] Robert J. Muise, Memorandum to Mark Meuser, June 29, 2007, published by Personhood Education,http://personhoodeducation.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/questions-colorado-amendment-final.pdf[211] (accessed August 24, 2010). The "About Us" web page for the center states, "Our purpose is to be the sword and shield for people of faith;" see http://www.thomasmore.org/qry/page.taf?id=23[212] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[83] Vicken Sepilian and Ellen Wood, "Ectopic Pregnancy," Emedicine, May 7, 2010, Medscape: Medscape Access[213] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[84] "Over Their Dead Bodies: Denial of Access to Emergency Obstetric Care and Therapeutic Abortion in Nicaragua," Human Rights Watch, October 1, 2007,Over Their Dead Bodies | Human Rights Watch[214] (accessed August 24, 2010); "Women die after Nicaragua's ban on abortions," Associated Press, November 6, 2007, Women die after Nicaragua's ban on abortions - Health | NBC News[215] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[85] "Are There Rare Cases When an Abortion Is Justified?", Association of Prolife Physicians, http://www.prolifephysicians.org/rarecases.htm[216] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[86] "Is Abortion Ever Justifed?", Abort73.com, Bringing an End to Abortion: Is Abortion Ever Justified?[217] (emphasis removed; accessed August 24, 2010).
[87] "Questions on Abortion," Priests for Life, Abortion - Pro Life - Priests for Life Q&A on Abortion[218] (accessed August 24, 2010). That reference is given by "Possible Exceptions to the Ban on Abortion by the Roman Catholic Church," Religious Tolerance, Possible exceptions to the Roman Catholic ban on abortion[219](accessed August 24, 2010).
[88] Suzanne R. Trupin, "Elective Abortion," Emedicine, May 27, 2010, Medscape: Medscape Access[220] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[89] Rory Carroll, "Nicaragua prevents treatment of pregnant cancer patient," Guardian, Nicaragua prevents treatment of pregnant cancer patient | World news | The Guardian[221] (accessed August 27, 2010).
[90] Matthew Hoffman, "Pro-Abortion Movement Exploits Tragic Case of Pregnant Cancer
 
*citations needed*

OP is an Appeal to Consequence Fallacy, nothing more.

Okay, Jerry, I've furnished you 4 different posts with citations that included information from which I used to create Unintended Consequences I and II...which I clearly stated that they are potential consequences...in my opinion. So if you want - I have probably a half dozen or so pages more that I can post. And really, if I want to dig into my notes...I can probably furnish you a lot more than that.

Yes, Jerry, like yourself....so many people don't give a damn about consequences imposed on women by allowing fetal personhood to be incorporated into our Constitution. They too turn a blind eye to reality. I guess they're just condoning.
 
I do keep notes, Jerry. Looking back through the various sites, articles, etc... that I read to create UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES: Now this the first PAGE OF SEVERAL MORE PAGES of the list of citations....so expect more...

[1] "Roe v. Wade," United States Supreme Court, 410 U.S. 113, January 22, 1973, FindLaw, [106]http://laws.findlaw.com/us/410/113.html[107] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[2] "Declaration on Procured Abortion," Vatican, June 28, 1974,Declaration on procured abortion, 18 November 1974[108] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[3] Leslie Reagan, When Abortion Was a Crime (University of California Press, 1997), p. 7.
[4] "George W. Bush on Abortion," On the Issues, George W. Bush on Abortion[109] (accessed August 24, 2010); "John McCain on Abortion, On the Issues, John McCain on Abortion[110] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[5] Pope Paul VI, Humanae Vitae, Vatican, July 25, 1968, Humanae Vitae - Encyclical Letter of His Holiness Paul VI on the regulation of birth, 25 July 1968[111] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[6] "The Bible and Abortion," Colorado Right to Life, CRTL: The Bible and Abortion | Colorado Right To Life[112] (accessed August 26, 2010).
[7] "Welcome to Personhood USA: What Is Personhood?", Personhood USA, "1 in 3" campaign is all about denial » Personhood USA[113] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[8] "John McCain's Tragic Pro-Abortion Record," American Right to Life Action, October 12, 2008, John McCain's Tragic Pro-Abortion Record | American RTL Action[114] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[9] Frank Lambert, Religion In American Politics: A Short History (Princeton University Press, 2008), p. 189-190.
[10] Personhood USA, Home » Personhood USA[115] (accessed August 28, 2010).
[11] "About Us," Personhood USA, http://www.personhoodusa.com/about[116] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[12] "Life Counts," Colorado for Equal Rights, 2008, http://www.coloradoforequalrights.com/files/cer_info_sheet.pdf[117] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[13] Peter J. Smith, "Historic Chance to Defeat Roe v. Wade on the Ballot in Colorado," LifeSiteNews.com, May 30, 2008,Historic Chance to Defeat Roe v. Wade on the Ballot in Colorado | News | LifeSite[118] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[14] "CRTL 2008 Candidate Questionnaire," Colorado Right to Life, CRTL 2008 Candidate Questionnaire | Colorado Right To Life[119](accessed August 24, 2010).
[15] Chelsea Schilling, "'Personhood' Movement Explodes in 32 States," World Net Daily, October 31, 2009, ‘Personhood’ movement explodes in 32 states[120] (accessed August 24, 2010). This article is promoted by Personhood USA athttp://www.personhoodusa.com/content/personhood-movement-explodes-32-states-world-net-daily[121] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[16] "Gallup Polls Prove that Personhood is working to change America," Personhood USA, http://www.personhoodusa.com/content/personhood-usa-first-year-review[122] (accessed August 28, 2010).
[17] "Abortion," Gallup, polling results from May 3-6, 2010, Abortion | Gallup Historical Trends[123] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[18] "Colorado Amendment 2008 Election Results," Denver Post, Amendment 2008 election results in Colorado: Results: Elections: The Denver Post[124] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[19] "South Dakota Abortion Ban, Initiated Measure 11 (2008)," BallotPedia,http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/South_Dakota_Abortion_Ban,_Initiated_Measure_11_(2008[125]) (accessed August 24, 2010); Tiffany Sharples, "Ballot Initiatives: No to Gay Marriage, Anti-Abortion Measures," Time, November 5, 2008, Ballot Initiatives: No to Gay Marriage, Anti-Abortion Measures - TIME[126](accessed August 24, 2010).
[20] Robin Abcarian, "A New Push to Define 'Person,' and to Outlaw Abortion in the Process," Los Angeles Times, September 28, 2009,A new push to define 'person,' and to outlaw abortion in the process - Los Angeles Times[127] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[21] The Personhood CO web page lists a copyright by Personhood USA; see A Voice for Brady | Vote YES on 67[128] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[22] The Colorado Secretary of State lists Gualberto Garcia Jones and Leslie Hanks as the proponents of the 2010 "personhood" measure; seehttp://www.elections.colorado.gov/Content/Documents/Initiatives/Statement%20of%20Sufficiency.pdf[129] (accessed August 24, 2010). As of mid-2010, Leslie Hanks was listed as vice president of Colorado Right to Life; see Statement of Values | Colorado Right To Life[130] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[23] Colorado Secretary of State, Elections & Voting[131] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[24] Ed Quillen, "Colorado's Zygote Zealots," Denver Post, August 8, 2010, Quillen: Colorado's zygote zealots - The Denver Post[132] (accessed August 24, 2010).
[25] "CRTL 2008 Candidate Questionnaire," Colorado Right to Life, CRTL 2008 Candidate Questionnaire | Colorado Right To Life[133](accessed August 24, 2010); "CRTL 2010 Candidate Questionnaire," Colorado Right to Life, CRTL 2010 Candidate Survey | Colorado Right To Life[134] (accessed August 24, 2010).
Aww I'm so proud of you copy/pasting http://www.seculargovernment.us/docs/a62.pdf page 34.

At least now you're bothering to put links in your posts at all.
 
:lol: You haven't even audited the links, so I KNOW you haven't read any of them.

Please, just, stop embarrassing yourself :lol:

Uh huh,...and YOU don't have any way of rebutting my opinions unless you do.
 
Back
Top Bottom