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Pro-Lifers Identify Yourself Please

Pro-Lifers Identify Yourself Please


  • Total voters
    57

AGENT J

"If you ain't first, you're last"
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This will probably be a 3 thread poll/topic.
One of them will be for pro-choicers too. http://www.debatepolitics.com/abortion/176625-pro-choicers-identify-yourself-please.html
Seems far too often its a black vs. white issue when that's not actually how it is, like life and all things its much more grey.
All "so called" pro-lifers are not the same and all "so called" pro-choicers are not the same.
I myself think the most accurate label for me is pro-choice with limits :shrug:


Anyway I'm sorry for the general poll options but they are limited, please vote for which is the closest to your stance.

1.) Illegal in ALL cases NO exceptions
2.) Illegal WITH exceptions
3.) 1st trimester only (1-12wks) NO exceptions
4.) 1st trimester only (1-12wks) WITH exceptions
E1.) exceptions for when the mother's life is in immediate danger
E2.) exceptions fo sever deformity/risk of still born
E3.) exceptions for rape
E4.) exceptions for incest
 
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1.) Illegal in ALL cases NO exceptions
2.) Illegal WITH exceptions
3.) 1st trimester only (1-12wks) NO exceptions
4.) 1st trimester only (1-12wks) WITH exceptions
E1.) exceptions for when the mother's life is in immediate danger
E2.) exceptions fo sever deformity/risk of still born
E3.) exceptions for rape
E4.) exceptions for incest

Where is the option legal in all cases?
 
This will probably be a 3 thread poll/topic.
One of them will be for pro-choicers too.
Seems far too often its a black vs. white issue when that's not actually how it is, like life and all things its much more grey.
All "so called" pro-lifers are not the same and all "so called" pro-choicers are not the same.
I myself think the most accurate label for me is pro-choice with limits :shrug:


Anyway I'm sorry for the general poll options but they are limited, please vote for which is the closest to your stance.

1.) Illegal in ALL cases NO exceptions
2.) Illegal WITH exceptions
3.) 1st trimester only (1-12wks) NO exceptions
4.) 1st trimester only (1-12wks) WITH exceptions
E1.) exceptions for when the mother's life is in immediate danger
E3.) exceptions for rape
E4.) exceptions for incest


2.) Illegal WITH exceptions.
E1.) exceptions for when the mother's life is in immediate danger.

That said if the only way to get an abortion ban through was to add exceptions for rape and incest then I would support those exceptions, after all they can later be removed.
 
Where is the option legal in all cases?


http://www.debatepolitics.com/abortion/176625-pro-choicers-identify-yourself-please.html

Although it wouldn't be a bad idea for the thread started to link his own threads in each of the opening post.


The better question is "Where is the option for legal pro-choice, personal pro-life"? I think many people fall under that, including myself.


There is no such thing as personal pro-life while being legally pro-choice. Pro-life is the opposition to legal abortion, more specifically opposition to legal abortion on demand.


Pro-life | Define Pro-life at Dictionary.com
opposed to legalized abortion; right-to-life.

Right-to-life | Define Right-to-life at Dictionary.com
pertaining to or advocating laws making abortion, especially abortion-on-demand, illegal; antiabortion: right-to-life advocates.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abortion-on-demand
1.the right of a woman to have an abortion during the first six months of a pregnancy.
2.an abortion performed on a woman solely at her own request.
 
The better question is "Where is the option for legal pro-choice, personal pro-life"? I think many people fall under that, including myself.

Well for me I'm just personally pro life for just the women and pro choice on the unborn human.
 
http://www.debatepolitics.com/abortion/176625-pro-choicers-identify-yourself-please.html

Although it wouldn't be a bad idea for the thread started to link his own threads in each of the opening post.


The better question is "Where is the option for legal pro-choice, personal pro-life"? I think many people fall under that, including myself.

not important for this, simply pick what you support legally please, thank you


with that said i applaud you for your ability to be sensible and realizing that your personal stances shouldnt be law like many people do including people those who "stereo typically" should be pro-life (GOPers and many Christians and Catholics)
 
There is no such thing as personal pro-life while being legally pro-choice. Pro-life is the opposition to legal abortion, more specifically opposition to legal abortion on demand.

Personally pro life is where you wouldn't want to get an abortion yourself and they can be legally pro choice where they don't want to ban it themselves.

The dictionary of course won't list it but that shouldn't really matter.
 
There is no such thing as personal pro-life while being legally pro-choice. Pro-life is the opposition to legal abortion, more specifically opposition to legal abortion on demand.


Pro-life | Define Pro-life at Dictionary.com
opposed to legalized abortion; right-to-life.

Right-to-life | Define Right-to-life at Dictionary.com
pertaining to or advocating laws making abortion, especially abortion-on-demand, illegal; antiabortion: right-to-life advocates.

you simply do not get to make that decision for others

this is actually my very point of the two threads, the two labels are nonsensical since the people under them are not equal in thier views

for example there are people that would say YOU are not pro-life because you would allow it when the mother is at risk, they to dont get to make that call.
YOU get to label yourself as you wish. They can keep their opinion of course but that doesnt make it true,
 
Personally pro life is where you wouldn't want to get an abortion yourself and they can be legally pro choice where they don't want to ban it themselves.

It doesn't matter if you yourself wouldn't get an abortion,the term pro-life has nothing to do with that. If you support legalized abortion or more specifically legalized on demand abortion then you are pro-choice. You are not pro-life. People who are pro-life are pro-life for the reason they believe the child in the womb deserves the same legal right to life that you are I have. Do you believe that the child in the womb deserves a legal right to life that you or I have? Obviously you don't since you believe it should be legal for a mother to kill her child in the womb. Abortionists may buy the "I'm personally pro-life but legally pro-choice" lie but those who are pro life do not.

The dictionary of course won't list it but that shouldn't really matter.

Terms mean thing. No person who is actually pro-life supports abortion on demand being legal.
 
Abortionists may buy the "I'm personally pro-life but legally pro-choice" lie but those who are pro life do not.

this is part of the problem right here and not part of the solution

again you simply do not get to make that call

just like the people that would say YOU are not truly pro-life
 
1. Terms mean something.

2. No person who is actually pro-life supports abortion on demand being legal.

1. Yes terms are made up though and can be in the dictionary or not.

2. Someone who is personally pro life/legally pro choice don't care it's legal.

I accidently posted in this thread anyways. I'm pro choice all the way
 
As long as the father does not have to pay child support once informed by the woman and he says no... then it is all good.
 
The better question is "Where is the option for legal pro-choice, personal pro-life"? I think many people fall under that, including myself.

That's pro-choice. You're just specifying which choice you would make.
 
this is part of the problem right here and not part of the solution

A pro-lifer's position is opposition to legal on demand abortion and therefore will want to ban or keep abortion on demand illegal. Therefore a pro-lifer's solution is either keep if illegal if on demand abortion is already illegal in that country, try for an outright ban or use baby steps to slowly chip away at legalized on demand abortion. A pro-choicer's position is support for making and or keeping on demand abortion legal. Therefore a pro-choicer's solution is to oppose any attempts to ban or restrict legalized on demand abortion and in countries where it is illegal try an outright attempt to make it legal or use baby steps to make it legal. These two groups have antonymous views on abortion and autonomous solutions.

again you simply do not get to make that call

Its not a matter of making a call.Pro-life opposition to legalized abortion or more specifically legalized abortion on demand. If you support abortion being legal then you can not call yourself pro-life.

just like the people that would say YOU are not truly pro-life


The people who say that are pro-abortionist retards trying to argue that if support military action, the death penalty or some other issue unrelated to abortion then you are not pro-life.
 
1.)A pro-lifer's position is opposition to legal on demand abortion and therefore will want to ban or keep abortion on demand illegal. Therefore a pro-lifer's solution is either keep if illegal if on demand abortion is already illegal in that country, try for an outright ban or use baby steps to slowly chip away at legalized on demand abortion. A pro-choicer's position is support for making and or keeping on demand abortion legal. Therefore a pro-choicer's solution is to oppose any attempts to ban or restrict legalized on demand abortion and in countries where it is illegal try an outright attempt to make it legal or use baby steps to make it legal. These two groups have antonymous views on abortion and autonomous solutions.



2.)Its not a matter of making a call.Pro-life opposition to legalized abortion or more specifically legalized abortion on demand. If you support abortion being legal then you can not call yourself pro-life.




3.)The people who say that are pro-abortionist retards trying to argue that if support military action, the death penalty or some other issue unrelated to abortion then you are not pro-life.

1.) you keep saying this but like i said YOU dont get to decide, i could post definitions that make you NOT a pro-lifer does that make it true?
2.) factually not your call see #1
3.)actually it would be prolife people, sorry. Theres at least two that post here at DP.
ignorance, lies, fantasy and totally biased hyperbolic rhetoric like this is further proof views like you posted are part of the problem :shrug:

Like i said its factually not your call, you dont get to make the decesion
you are free to have any opinion you want but thats all it will ever be, an opinion

Also like i said using your logic you are not pro-life, i can post a definition that supports that but since im honest, use logic and understand reality i know thats not factual.
 
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this is part of the problem right here and not part of the solution

again you simply do not get to make that call

The "I'd never do it myself but support others doing it" rationale is probably the most illogical of all the varied positions. That would be like me saying I would never commit murder but I support others right to choose to do it. And yes, I understand it's not murder in the legal sense, I'm using an analogy. If you say you wouldn't do it, you're acknowledging that you believe something to be wrong or bad about it.


just like the people that would say YOU are not truly pro-life

I don't know anyone that would say that about JamesRage. For me, the more accurate term is anti-abortion. I do concede the rape/incest exceptions mainly so we can move on from pretending that all or even most abortions occur as a result of those things. They don't. I don't draw arbitrary lines regarding the gestation of the baby. My friend's son is did not magically become something completely different from one week to the next. It's all part of the process. I am also incapable of understanding vilifying the baby or believing it deserves to be ripped apart at any stage, as if it's at fault for it's existence.
 
1.)The "I'd never do it myself but support others doing it" rationale is probably the most illogical of all the varied positions. That would be like me saying I would never commit murder but I support others right to choose to do it. And yes, I understand it's not murder in the legal sense, I'm using an analogy. If you say you wouldn't do it, you're acknowledging that you believe something to be wrong or bad about it.




2.)I don't know anyone that would say that about JamesRage. For me, the more accurate term is anti-abortion. I do concede the rape/incest exceptions mainly so we can move on from pretending that all or even most abortions occur as a result of those things. They don't. I don't draw arbitrary lines regarding the gestation of the baby. My friend's son is did not magically become something completely different from one week to the next. It's all part of the process. I am also incapable of understanding vilifying the baby or believing it deserves to be ripped apart at any stage, as if it's at fault for it's existence.

1.) its not illogical at all its the simple understanding that what one chooses to practice for themselves isnt what all should do or be forced to do. Its actually super logical when it comes to the stage of law, rights, morals, country freedom. Hence millions that feel this way. including many religious people that feel their choice of pro-life is for them. And similar issues with gay marriage and the pope etc.

I always like this statement from "A" Christians of course this christian doesn speak for us all.
There are a great many of us who practice Christianity, are very close with GOD, and support choice. It's because we believe that it is unfair to try and make people who are not Christians live their lives based on my beliefs. Just as I cannot force someone to become a Christian, changing laws to force women to do what I believe God requires still will not make them a Christian, it will only make them followers of the law. That person would not be changing their behavior because of their relationship with God. Pro-choice Christians understand that a relationship with God is based on accepting God’s love for us; it cannot be forced on people nor can they be manipulated into it. The Gospel is “good news,” not a scare tactic or a tool used to control people. We are also mindful of those historic examples of when Christianity has been used to perpetuate discrimination and injustice.

again, you dont have to agree with that and im not saying i do but im just pointing out that its very logical.

2.) Has nothing to do with JamesRage, it has to do with his stance. He has the stance that abortion is ok under certain circumstances so there are factually people that call themselves pro-life that would say he isnt and thats my point. There are definitions that would say he is not. BUT you, him, me, none of us get to decide that. Just like I cant tell you that you are not christian and vice versa. It simply, factually doesnt work that way

also do you never vote? lol
 
The better question is "Where is the option for legal pro-choice, personal pro-life"? I think many people fall under that, including myself.

I've never quite understood this idea. Genuinely.

If you are "personally pro-life," but support legal access to abortion, you are pro-choice. You have made YOUR choice, and that is what it's all about. "Pro," and "choice."

Being pro-choice does not mean you must abort, or be personally willing to abort.
 
1.) its not illogical at all its the simple understanding that what one chooses to practice for themselves isnt what all should do or be forced to do. Its actually super logical when it comes to the stage of law, rights, morals, country freedom. Hence millions that feel this way. including many religious people that feel their choice of pro-life is for them. And similar issues with gay marriage and the pope etc.

Then, as Paschendale (I think) said, that person is pro-choice and just claiming what their choice would be.

I always like this statement from "A" Christians of course this christian doesn speak for us all.

I suppose you and that Christian also feel I would be wrong in trying to enforce my Christian values of not stealing or committing murder or child abuse on others. Before you say those are different, they're just different to you, not to me.


again, you dont have to agree with that and im not saying i do but im just pointing out that its very logical.
I know. I'm free to disagree with you but if I do, I'm a conspiricy nut.

2.) Has nothing to do with JamesRage, it has to do with his stance. He has the stance that abortion is ok under certain circumstances so there are factually people that call themselves pro-life that would say he isnt and thats my point. There are definitions that would say he is not. BUT you, him, me, none of us get to decide that. Just like I cant tell you that you are not christian and vice versa. It simply, factually doesnt work that way

also do you never vote? lol

Not in weighted polls, no.
 
I've never quite understood this idea. Genuinely.

If you are "personally pro-life," but support legal access to abortion, you are pro-choice. You have made YOUR choice, and that is what it's all about. "Pro," and "choice."

Being pro-choice does not mean you must abort, or be personally willing to abort.

now this i can agree with

i think many people forget that, i think many people forget that people who are prochoice of course would have kids of have had kids and vice versa.

Being pro-choice does not mean you would ever have one yourself.


this AGAIN ties perfectly in with the inspiration for my two thread.

I think the two labels are so nonsensical and it inspires answers like that.


"Personally im pro-life but others can be pro-choice if they want" because of the emotionally charged stances some people have i think they fell obligated to explain further at times.

and then like many other things people use the label as a JUDGEMENT TOOL and that also leads to problems

just like in many threads when posters tell other posters they arent really pro-choice/pro-life etc.


Its just weird considering the vast majority are accurately pro-choice with limits / pro-life with exceptions which are basically the same. The majority of us are in the middle to some degree. SO thats why whatever people label themselves is fine by me.
 
1.)Then, as Paschendale (I think) said, that person is pro-choice and just claiming what their choice would be.
2.)I suppose you and that Christian also feel I would be wrong in trying to enforce my Christian values of not stealing of committing murder or child abuse on others. Before you say those are different, they're just different to you, not to me.
3.) I know. I'm free to disagree with you but if I do, I'm a conspiricy nut.
4.)Not in weighted polls, no.

1.) I agree you could say that bet we still dont get to pick their label for them, they do
2.) nope i wouldnt say you are wrong UNLESS that was your sole motive.
We as chrisitians have no claim or ownership to those laws, just cause they happen to line up doesnt make them solely christian, thats silly, many other religions have those same laws.
ANd whether or not you view them as different they are factually different when it comes to legality and rights (legal, human and civil)
3.) no conspiracy just saying the bases for the reasoning is completely logical
4.) whats "weighted" about it?
 
1.) I agree you could say that bet we still dont get to pick their label for them, they do
That's rich considering you register no objection when those on your side call us "anti choice", "pro-rape" etc. Lol.
2.) nope i wouldnt say you are wrong UNLESS that was your sole motive.
We as chrisitians have no claim or ownership to those laws, just cause they happen to line up doesnt make them solely christian, thats silly, many other religions have those same laws.
ANd whether or not you view them as different they are factually different when it comes to legality and rights (legal, human and civil)
I know and I disagree with some laws as crazy as I'm sure you think that makes me. You completely missed my point. My bad, I thought you wanted me to explain my point of view.
3.) no conspiracy just saying the bases for the reasoning is completely logical
Have you ever acknowledged logic in something you disagreed with, because with me, you just call me a conspiricy theorist. /shrug
4.) whats "weighted" about it?
I think you're more interested in advancing your own opinions than hearing others.

And J, if you're just going to dismiss my views as "silly" or "conspiricy theorist" I'll stop wasting your time and mine.
 
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1.)That's rich considering you register no objection when those on your side call us "anti choice", "pro-rape" etc. Lol.

2.)I know and I disagree with some laws as crazy as I'm sure you think that makes me.
3.)You completelg missed my point. My bad, I thought you wanted my to explain my point of view.
4.) Have you ever acknowledged logic in something you disagreed with
5.) because with me, you just call me a conspiricy theorist. /shrug
6.) I think you're more interested in advancing your own opinions than hearing others.
7.) And J, if you're just going to dismiss my views as "silly" or "conspiricy theorist" I'll stop wasting your time and mine.

1.) well thats simply not true at all. While i think anti-choice is silly and would never bother correcting it but using pro-rape is stupid and i do object to that. Have you actually read many of my posts because it seems you get plenty wrong.

2.) I also disagree with some laws and thats my point there are many things that are law that i think are silly and there are many things for me that i practice that i would never make law.
3.) I didnt miss anything and i do want you to explain, unless i misunderstood. Arent we talking about the claim that you said "is the most illogical of all the varied positions."? if we are you simply didnt provide any argument to support that in your explanation. AM i wrong, is that not what we are taking about? what did i miss?
4.) yes many times actually and i point it out often.
5.) If you are still bothered and offend after i publicly apologized, took it back and explained that you misunderstood and i had zero intention of offending you then the issue is yours. I said sorry multiple times and explained what i met in a handfull of posts :shrug:
6.) if that was the case i wouldnt have even made these two posts, what would be the point? even better question how can people simply giving where they stand be weighted?
You tell me thats your thought but you didnt explain whats weighted about the post. Is there something in the choices that make you think that? I actually got the basic premise from other polls
7.) nothing has been simply "dismissed", simply defend any view you have, but you are free to do what you like. It seems if i dont agree, or something proves you wrong or has better logic to it then you are offened or somehow im at fault lol
 
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