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Abortion and the Bald Man Paradox

Guy Incognito

Guy Incognito

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In another thread there is a discussion about a doctor facing the death penalty for, among other things, performing abortions too late in the pregnancy.

This reminded me of a paradox first put forward by an ancient Greek philosopher, called the Bald Man Paradox:
"A man with a full head of hair is obviously not bald. Now the removal of a single hair will not turn a non-bald man into a bald one. And yet it is obvious that a continuation of that process must eventually result in baldness."

Similarly, killing a fetus is against the law until a certain point, after which point it is potentially murder to perform the same action. Does this not seem utterly absurd?
 
Well here we don't have that issue since we have no laws regarding abortion and the time is only limited by what the doctor will do.
 
It's obnoxious because if the doctor in question had slit the throats of the babies inside the woman, then delivered, instead of the other way around, he would've been just fine legally in the opinion of many on this forum.

Apparently there's something magical about pushing your head through a vagina that causes life to begin.

0bserver92 said:
Well here we don't have that issue since we have no laws regarding abortion and the time is only limited by what the doctor will do.
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Yeah, you guys are the best example. Everything is legal as long as some asshole who went to college for 8 years is willing to do it for enough money. Sounds legit.
 
0bserver92 said:
Well here we don't have that issue since we have no laws regarding abortion and the time is only limited by what the doctor will do.
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Assuming that there are laws against infanticide, yes, you do have that same issue. Just with a slightly different timeline.
 
Guy Incognito said:
In another thread there is a discussion about a doctor facing the death penalty for, among other things, performing abortions too late in the pregnancy.
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I think you may be confused again.

AFAIK, no doctor is facing the death penalty for "performing abortions too late in the pregnancy"
 
Guy Incognito said:
Assuming that there are laws against infanticide, yes, you do have that same issue. Just with a slightly different timeline.
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It ends when the child becomes a child with rights at birth. Up until that point they have no rights.
 
0bserver92 said:
It ends when the child becomes a child with rights at birth. Up until that point they have no rights.
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That doesn't make any sense either. There is no rational reason to say that rights just flip on when you are born.
 
Guy Incognito said:
In another thread there is a discussion about a doctor facing the death penalty for, among other things, performing abortions too late in the pregnancy.

This reminded me of a paradox first put forward by an ancient Greek philosopher, called the Bald Man Paradox:
"A man with a full head of hair is obviously not bald. Now the removal of a single hair will not turn a non-bald man into a bald one. And yet it is obvious that a continuation of that process must eventually result in baldness."

Similarly, killing a fetus is against the law until a certain point, after which point it is potentially murder to perform the same action. Does this not seem utterly absurd?
Click to expand...

Lots of things are against the law after a certain point. I don't see it as a paradox at all.

'Course I don't see the bald man thingie as a paradox either, although I know some say it is. Makes no sense to me. Now THIS is a paradox:

I say to you, "I am now telling you a lie." If I'm telling you a lie, then I'm really telling you the truth. If I'm telling you the truth, then I must be lying. But if I'm lying, then I must be telling the truth. And if I'm telling you the truth, then I must be lying. Ad infinitum. Now that THERE's a paradox I can relate to. ;)
 
Guy Incognito said:
In another thread there is a discussion about a doctor facing the death penalty for, among other things, performing abortions too late in the pregnancy.

This reminded me of a paradox first put forward by an ancient Greek philosopher, called the Bald Man Paradox:
"A man with a full head of hair is obviously not bald. Now the removal of a single hair will not turn a non-bald man into a bald one. And yet it is obvious that a continuation of that process must eventually result in baldness."

Similarly, killing a fetus is against the law until a certain point, after which point it is potentially murder to perform the same action. Does this not seem utterly absurd?
Click to expand...

Somewhat. It's certainly arbitrary, but then any cutoff you choose to pick is arbitrary (yes, even fertilization).
 
Henrin said:
That doesn't make any sense either. There is no rational reason to say that rights just flip on when you are born.
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Actually there is. Just because you may not know the reason or understand it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
 
Henrin said:
That doesn't make any sense either. There is no rational reason to say that rights just flip on when you are born.
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Yes they do, as sated in the criminal code.
 
sangha said:
Actually there is. Just because you may not know the reason or understand it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
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He didn't say a reason didn't exist. He said a RATIONAL reason didn't exist. You seriously have reading problems.
 
Henrin said:
That doesn't make the law make sense, but is merely stating it.
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No it's also the popularly supported and just definition. It also the definition the courts support.
 
0bserver92 said:
No it's also the popularly supported and just definition. It also the definition the courts support.
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All you're doing is using fallacies here. Please support your argument with your own thoughts.
 
0bserver92 said:
No it's also the popularly supported and just definition. It also the definition the courts support.
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Luckily, your country is one of the only in the world extreme enough to support such a position. Life begins at 12 weeks for most european countries. THAT is a civilized policy.

Authorizing the off'ing of post-viability babies simply because the mother waited too long and changed her mind the day before the scheduled delivery is ****ing barbaric.
 
Henrin said:
All you're doing is using fallacies here. Please support your argument with your own thoughts.
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I support my country's decision to not have any laws regarding abortion. The laws were overturned in the 80s and since then attempts to change have been met with fierce and overwhelming resistance.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Luckily, your country is one of the only in the world extreme enough to support such a position. Life begins at 12 weeks for most european countries. THAT is a civilized policy.

Authorizing the off'ing of post-viability babies simply because the mother waited too long and changed her mind the day before the scheduled delivery is ****ing barbaric.
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Right now no doctor will perform abortions after 23 weeks.
 
0bserver92 said:
Right now no doctor will perform abortions after 23 weeks.
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I bet for the right amount of money they would. Do you have a signed oath from every doctor in Canada saying they'll refuse to do such? A blood pact? Maybe even a verbal statement? Anything at all? Or are you just speaking out of your ass?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I bet for the right amount of money they would. Do you have a signed oath from every doctor in Canada saying they'll refuse to do such? A blood pact? Maybe even a verbal statement? Anything at all? Or are you just speaking out of your ass?
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Who Performs Late Term Abortions
Hospitals and some clinics in Canada perform abortions on request up to about 20 weeks, and a
few centres do abortions up to 22 or 23 weeks. However, most of the very small number of
abortions performed over 20 weeks gestation in Canada are done to protect the woman’s physical
health, or because of serious fetal abnormalities. Such problems cannot be discovered until an
amniocentesis test is done on the fetus later in pregnancy. Rare abortions after 22 or 23 weeks
gestation are also done in Canada for some cases of lethal fetal abnormalities, where the fetus
cannot survive after birth.
Since abortion services after 20 weeks are not always readily accessible in all parts of Canada,
women are sometimes referred to clinics in the United States (Kansas, Washington State, and
Colorado). Such procedures and associated expenses may be funded in full or part by some
provincial governments.
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A mere 0.4% of abortions take place after 20 weeks of gestation.
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A very small number of abortions occur after 20 weeks of gestation primarily because the fetus is
gravely or fatally impaired, or the woman's life or physical health is at risk, or both (Statistics
Canada, 2003; Abortion Rights Coalition of Canada - ARCC - News).
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From this organization.
 
0bserver92 said:
From this organization.
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So you've changed your statement that NO doctor would ever do it to: SOME, but few doctors will do it?

If a pregnant, rich female who is about to give birth tomorrow decides that she no longer wants to have a baby, do you believe that she would not be able to find someone willing to do it if she were offering a million dollars? What if she decided to have a non-licensed person do it? Is this kid's life irrelevant because she's wealthy enough to pay someone to abort it?

Even if it happened 1 out of a million times, why would we not want to try to protect these children from being post-viability aborted for purely discretionary reasons?
 
0bserver92 said:
I support my country's decision to not have any laws regarding abortion. The laws were overturned in the 80s and since then attempts to change have been met with fierce and overwhelming resistance.
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Ok, get back to me when you have an argument.
 
Henrin said:
And yet you have no laws against it, right?
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Nope all cases after 24 weeks are purely for medical reasons only. Elective abortions are performed before that.
 
0bserver92 said:
Nope all cases after 24 weeks are purely for medical reasons only. Elective abortions are performed before that.
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You said:

I support my country's decision to not have any laws regarding abortion.
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What exactly is making it so these doctors don't abort any children after 24 weeks?
 
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