Thread: Prolife answers on Woman's rights VS Murder/person hood/ZEF Rights

Originally Posted by nathanjames1791

Yep sleeping in class. Doesnt even know what biology is. Anyways its not opinion. Whether or not somewhere has a good hamburger, thats opinion. Whether or not something is a human, thats scientific. Science can prove it and it has been done. To say its opinion is like saying gravity is an opinion.

SOrry it has already been proven calling a zygote a human )noun) or a human being ?(noun) is subjective opinion.

You can call it human(adj) though, that is a fact and you CAN also call it a human (noun) you just have to admit thats a subjective opinion.

This has nothing to do with me but the various definitions of the words. DOnt like it maybe you can write a letter to oxford dictionary.

Originally Posted by nathanjames1791

Best debate strategy ever. Dont bother answering just write off as all lies. You know I think that very reasoned argument just won me over!

well what else should I call a lie, he claimed I said something I clearly did not and when I asked for proof what did he do? run from the question. LMAO

sorry that he lied and now you want me to take him seriously LOL

Please feel free to ask me anything related to the OP and I will gladly answer
Or you could just disagree with me not taking a liar seriously because that is a good debate strategy too

Originally Posted by O_Guru

After you have proved this fact with evidee over and over again and handed that one guy his ass when you provided I have no idea how anybody still denies this fact. The amount of lies and dishonty that goes on here sometimes is astonding. Itks like some people think if you keep repeating a lie or denying a fact that people will begin to believe it. The problem is that only works on stupid people. Rational unbias adults don't buy that bull****. What you said is fact and has alreay been proven anybody stupid enough to look at the facts and disagree isn't worth the time. In most cases dumb people aren't smart enough to know they are dumb and bias people are usually to blind to see their own bias. But the great part is facts don't change.

LMAO I know its hilarious! Watching people argue against facts. They just keep going on and on in denial or when they realize they cant win they say "Well you can call it a fact that a zygote is NOT a human". Then I laugh even harder at them because the fact is I never did nor has that ever been my argument. I dont even have an argument im just stating the fact that its ALL a subjective opinion and that gets them mad. LOL

Originally Posted by Objective-J

nice try but you posts were dismissed because you were in fact dishonest and you in fact lied

Please feel free to ask me about ANYTHING i directly called a fact and I will gladly prove it. ALso do not REWORD my statements or tell me what YOU THINK they mean or what you THINK they have to mean based on your opinion. LMAO

Ask me about anything I directly called a fact and I will GLADLY go through it with you. PLEASE do this. and save the dishonesty and hyperbole for someone that will fall for it:

Its not your fault you dont know what you dont know but you will always fail when you make stuff up in your head.

That's rich, but ok.

How is this factual? "calling a zygote a baby and then calling it a person is nothing more than your subjective opinion". I've shown that an embryo and a fetus are in fact human. You've claimed they are not.

List all of the rights of a child uterus v a woman to prove that "the ZEF would in fact have more rights."

Here you say a baby is not a person:

"7.) I agree a baby is a person by definition. To bad a baby is NOT a ZEF or especially a zygote by definition only by subjective opinion and thats a fact you will lose to every time.

calling a zygote a baby and then calling it a person is nothing more than your subjective opinion

8.) well its not a fact so there goes that and its easy to rationalize once I think about the women's rights being violated and her being made secondary to the ZEF for 9 months against her will and forced to go though torture and something that could kill her. I prefer the already born, viable women who is a citizen keep her rights freedoms and liberties."

Prove it.

Here you claim a loss of rights if abortion isn't an option: "no leap at all, its facts and reality. The women had freedoms and rights before she got pregnant that she no longer has." Prove the existence of another negates an individual's rights.

Originally Posted by ksu_aviator

1.)That's rich, but ok.

2.)How is this factual? "calling a zygote a baby and then calling it a person is nothing more than your subjective opinion". I've shown that an embryo and a fetus are in fact human. You've claimed they are not.

3.)List all of the rights of a child uterus v a woman to prove that "the ZEF would in fact have more rights."

4.)Here you say a baby is not a person:

" I agree a baby is a person by definition. To bad a baby is NOT a ZEF or especially a zygote by definition only by subjective opinion and thats a fact you will lose to every time.

calling a zygote a baby and then calling it a person is nothing more than your subjective opinion

well its not a fact so there goes that and its easy to rationalize once I think about the women's rights being violated and her being made secondary to the ZEF for 9 months against her will and forced to go though torture and something that could kill her. I prefer the already born, viable women who is a citizen keep her rights freedoms and liberties."

Prove it.

Here you claim a loss of rights if abortion isn't an option: "no leap at all, its facts and reality. The women had freedoms and rights before she got pregnant that she no longer has." Prove the existence of another negates an individual's rights.

1.) you call it rich but its true lol
2.) first of all you called them a person (noun) and a human (nouns) i have no problem with anybody calling them human (adj) because that is factual

but on to the question, it is a fact because many definitions do not allow anything that is preborn to be classified as a human (noun) being or Human being (noun) it can be called a fact that its human (adj) but not a fact its a human (noun)


since various dictionaries do this, I have posted 6 links in the past and I will gladly do it again if you like, only two make claims to anything preborn and when one does it stops at fetus, which is NOT a zef and one I think goes to say "unborn"

so being that multiple reliable source define it differently that makes it subjective no matter which one you choose(subjectively) to use, its subjective. SOrry. If you dont like this fact I suggest you write to those dictionaries that dont allow anything preborn to be covered and see if they will change it based on your OPINION.

ALso note I am not claiming that its a fact that it is NOT a human, since there are sources that disagree with that making that statement would also be nothing more that subjective opinion.

my statement stands and is a FACT.

3.)This is pure dishonest that was tried by some one else and they failed to. I never made claim anywhere that this was a QUANTITY competition that is just plain stupidity to even think that. IN fact in this VERY THREAD I stated it is NOT a quantity.

For a stupid example, a woman can obtain a license a zef cant, well no **** LMAO

Before I get into the facts this is based on the OP and not some other fantasy, this is based on granting personhood at conception and making abortion murder.

what my statements means, and im just repeating this for like the 50th time for those that dishonestly ignore it, is that for 9 the woman will have to do what in the best interest for the ZEF and do t against her will. SHe will be forced to do it even if it risks her life, all her decisions will have to be made with the ZEFs best interest in mind not her own. She wont be able to decide based on free will, liberty, rights and freedoms if she can work, go to school, ride a roller coaster, drink a beer, eat unhealthy foods, exercise etc etc etc etc

All her decisions will be based on what the government and a doctor tells her to do otherwise she coul be charged with murder if any of those things could be proven to have cause her abortion.

Before the ZEF she had free will, rights, freedoms and liberties to do many many things that she now can not because of the ZEF and the forced against her.


my statement stands and is a FACT.

4.) this is just you rehashing things you misunderstood or think hold merit to your side but they dont because of my post above.

the two things you have question in the areas I called them facts are in deed facts LMAO

Just to save me some time

to prove that its subjective opinion calling a zygote a human here are some dictionary entries from oxford.

heres 3 links to oxford dictionary:

Definition for human - Oxford Dictionaries Online (World English)

human
Pronunciation: /ˈhjuːmən/

Noun:
a human being.

Definition for human being - Oxford Dictionaries Online (World English)

human being
Pronunciation: /hjuːmənˈbiːɪŋ/
noun
a man, woman, or child of the species Homo sapiens, distinguished from other animals by superior mental development, power of articulate speech, and upright stance.

Definition for child - Oxford Dictionaries Online (World English)

child
Pronunciation: /tʃʌɪld/
noun (plural children /ˈtʃɪldr(ə)n/)

a young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority: she’d been playing tennis since she was a child the film is not suitable for children
a son or daughter of any age: when children leave home, parents can feel somewhat redundant
an immature or irresponsible person: she’s such a child!
a person who has little or no experience in a particular area: he’s a child in financial matters

so with this and other definitions like this please tell me by going off the definition above how a zygote is a human being?

answer? it not, it can be done.

BUT using some other dictionaries it CAN be done.

These facts is what makes calling a zygote a human being subjective opinion. most sources dont allow it, one does and some sorta does of the 6 i have posted in the past.

But the number doesn't really matter, just the fact that some definitions allow it and some dont make it subjective opinion.

Originally Posted by Objective-J

SO since no one ever seems to answer this question I wanted to just make a thread about it.

For those that want abortion to be murder and person hood granted at conception what are your opinions on womens rights.


-do you not accept the fact that this would infringe on current womans rights
-do you not accept the fact that for 9 months the ZEF would have MORE rights that the woman
-you do accept that it would infringe on womans rights but dont care because you think its right
-you do accept that it would give the ZEF MORE rights than the woman but you dont care because you again think its right
- other

and like all 99% of abortion threads Im sure people will try to derail this thread and the nutjobs on both sides will post their nonsense but im hoping to find out at least some info.

Thanks

Are you suggesting that the pro-life stance is contrary to libertarianism even if the person believes that ZEFs are people?

Originally Posted by mpg

Are you suggesting that the pro-life stance is contrary to libertarianism even if the person believes that ZEFs are people?

Im not suggesting anything towards a libertarian stance, nothing at all actual, Im not even sure what the "libertarian" stance would be. Yours may not be someone else's

In fact the quickest way in my opinion to make oneself look stupid or to look non-objective is to lump people together.

When somebody says how come libertarians (or insert party here) dont like something, or do somethin, or are against something, I always think, oh boy, this isnt going to go well because there's probably libertarians that dont feel that way at all.

Many people falsely group others together thats way when used prolife in my title I was asking what each individual felt and not assuming they all felt ONE wat.
I was simply curious on who accepts the fact posted and who denies them and if they do accept them do they not matter.

My curiosity was based of of me asking the question inside of other threads many times and never getting a real answer.

ANd like here some posters have also chose this route but some were honest enough to accept the facts and state that they still believe its whats right, which is FINE by me for them to feel that way. They are welcome to that opinion.

Originally Posted by O_Guru

After you have proved this fact with evidee over and over again and handed that one guy his ass when you provided I have no idea how anybody still denies this fact. The amount of lies and dishonty that goes on here sometimes is astonding. Itks like some people think if you keep repeating a lie or denying a fact that people will begin to believe it. The problem is that only works on stupid people. Rational unbias adults don't buy that bull****. What you said is fact and has alreay been proven anybody stupid enough to look at the facts and disagree isn't worth the time. In most cases dumb people aren't smart enough to know they are dumb and bias people are usually to blind to see their own bias. But the great part is facts don't change.

It's funny that someone that has obviously never opened a dictionary thinks someone cherry picking definitions from one is evidence.

Originally Posted by Objective-J

SOrry it has already been proven calling a zygote a human )noun) or a human being ?(noun) is subjective opinion.

No, that's just a delusion you have. But at least you are saying proven now, instead of proved. That's progress.