Thread: Couple awarded $2.9 million for the birth of their Down Syndrome child

Originally Posted by Krhazy

It's a little disingenuous to make this out as if the parents are getting millions of dollars simply because they didn't want to deal with a child with medical problems. The couple probably cannot afford a down syndrome baby. So weigh this judgment against the cost of caring for the family that otherwise would be bourn by the taxpayers.

Dad's a civil engineer and mom's a dental hygienist.

Median income for CE is $56k a year, $61k for a dental hygienist.

I could afford the copays and deductables for a DS baby and my boyfriend and I make about 1/3rd less than the median income for the two career fields of the parents in this article.

And, of course, they always had the option to give her up for adoption if they didn't want her/couldn't care for her.

Originally Posted by MaggieD

Exactly. But ProChoice posters who think it's fine to abort perfect little babies and horrendous to abort Down's/Spina Bifida babies are the worst kind of hypocrites of all. I'm simply flummoxed. It invalidates the very reason I changed from ProLife to ProChoice. Unfreakin'believable.

There is ONE person saying that DS shouldn't be a qualification for abortion. You're making this into a bigger issue than it is. Most of us are saying that the parent's willingness to admit they would have aborted even after four years of love and affection with the child shows a distinct level of cruelty. It's basically saying, "Knowing what I know now, spending time with my daughter, I'd have aborted her if I'd had the chance."

That's a bit different than "I was going to abort you when we found out we were pregnant, but I'm sure glad we didn't." The child now has a face, a personality, emotions, character. And to say "Yeah...I wouldn't still have aborted"...that's kind of cold. I think that's why some people are reacted so harshly to what this woman said/did.

Then again, those of you who disagree with that premise are totally entitled to do so, but I would request that the tone of your posts be modified, because they come across as sanctimonious, hateful diatribes against people who feel just as passionately as you but who have not, to my knowledge, been nearly as rude and insulting.

Originally Posted by tessaesque

There is ONE person saying that DS shouldn't be a qualification for abortion. You're making this into a bigger issue than it is. Most of us are saying that the parent's willingness to admit they would have aborted even after four years of love and affection with the child shows a distinct level of cruelty. It's basically saying, "Knowing what I know now, spending time with my daughter, I'd have aborted her if I'd had the chance."

That's a bit different than "I was going to abort you when we found out we were pregnant, but I'm sure glad we didn't." The child now has a face, a personality, emotions, character. And to say "Yeah...I wouldn't still have aborted"...that's kind of cold. I think that's why some people are reacted so harshly to what this woman said/did.

Then again, those of you who disagree with that premise are totally entitled to do so, but I would request that the tone of your posts be modified, because they come across as sanctimonious, hateful diatribes against people who feel just as passionately as you but who have not, to my knowledge, been nearly as rude and insulting.

Abortion is a passionate subject, Tess. If I come across sanctimonious, it's because that's where I think I am on this issue. High moral ground. To attack this family is just plain wrong. To assume they're money-hungry is just plain wrong. To assume they would throw their baby in the garbage is just plain wrong. As to my posts being hateful diatribes? I just don't get that. At all.

Originally Posted by tessaesque

There is ONE person saying that DS shouldn't be a qualification for abortion. You're making this into a bigger issue than it is. Most of us are saying that the parent's willingness to admit they would have aborted even after four years of love and affection with the child shows a distinct level of cruelty. It's basically saying, "Knowing what I know now, spending time with my daughter, I'd have aborted her if I'd had the chance."

That's a bit different than "I was going to abort you when we found out we were pregnant, but I'm sure glad we didn't." The child now has a face, a personality, emotions, character. And to say "Yeah...I wouldn't still have aborted"...that's kind of cold. I think that's why some people are reacted so harshly to what this woman said/did.

Then again, those of you who disagree with that premise are totally entitled to do so, but I would request that the tone of your posts be modified, because they come across as sanctimonious, hateful diatribes against people who feel just as passionately as you but who have not, to my knowledge, been nearly as rude and insulting.

There's a couple problems here,

First of all, we don't really know that they said anything like that. This is coming from an anti-choice website which has extremely biased "reporting" and doesn't use any real quotes. I don't trust anything they say about the words of the parents for that reason, and no one with an iota of sense should. There are also no direct quotes from the parents in the original article, so that doesn't provide any insight either.

Furthermore, saying "I would have aborted" does not necessarily include "...even knowing you now." It is a statement of what they would have done, at that time, if they had different information. It in no way follows that they are saying they would abort their daughter even if they had precognition and knew what it would be like once they had her.

But even if they had, you're acting as though it is inherently monstrous to say you would have aborted a seriously disabled child who has a shortened life and a lot of misery to look forward to. What is monstrous about that? If they ARE saying they would still have aborted her even knowing her now, how do you know that is not a thought motivated by mercy?

And finally, are you telling me there isn't a complete lack of logic in saying that one is ok with aborting healthy fetuses, but aborting unhealthy ones is terrible?

Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors

There's a couple problems here,

First of all, we don't really know that they said anything like that. This is coming from an anti-choice website which has extremely biased "reporting" and doesn't use any real quotes. I don't trust anything they say about the words of the parents for that reason, and no one with an iota of sense should. There are also no direct quotes from the parents in the original article, so that doesn't provide any insight either.

Furthermore, saying "I would have aborted" does not necessarily include "...even knowing you now." It is a statement of what they would have done, at that time, if they had different information. It in no way follows that they are saying they would abort their daughter even if they had precognition and knew what it would be like once they had her.

But even if they had, you're acting as though it is inherently monstrous to say you would have aborted a seriously disabled child who has a shortened life and a lot of misery to look forward to. What is monstrous about that? If they ARE saying they would still have aborted her even knowing her now, how do you know that is not a thought motivated by mercy?

And finally, are you telling me there isn't a complete lack of logic in saying that one is ok with aborting healthy fetuses, but aborting unhealthy ones is terrible?

It comes from several articles on the topic which I read...did you?

Originally Posted by tessaesque

It comes from several articles on the topic which I read...did you?

Yes, I did. I am fairly sure I didn't see any quotes from the parents at all, anywhere. Please show me someplace where the parents said they would abort her even knowing her now as their child, rather than simply saying they would have aborted at the time with the knowledge they had (which doesn't include any knowledge of her as a person).

Then, if you can do that, and they are in fact saying they would abort her even knowing her, show me that this is definitely a stance motivated by distaste for their child, rather than empathy.

Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors

Yes, I read a couple. Please show me someplace where the parents said they would abort her even knowing her now as their child, rather than simply saying they would have aborted at the time with the knowledge they had (which doesn't include any knowledge of her as a person).

Then, if you can do that, and they are in fact saying they would abort her even knowing her, show me that this is definitely a stance motivated by distaste for their child, rather than empathy.

Edit: nevermind. Screw this nonsense.

Originally Posted by tessaesque

Edit: nevermind. Screw this nonsense.

Suddenly it's nonsense when you can't support your assertion?

Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors

Suddenly it's nonsense when you can't support your assertion?

1. I asked for civility and have yet to see it from you.
2. I do not respond to orders barked at me by somebody who can't respect that I disagree.
3. This post does nothing to encourage dialogue.

Find your sources and justify your opinions for yourself. I'm no longer interested in having a conversation as it is obvious the tone of your posts won't change.

Originally Posted by tessaesque

1. I asked for civility and have yet to see it from you.
2. I do not respond to orders barked at me by somebody who can't respect that I disagree.
3. This post does nothing to encourage dialogue.

Find your sources and justify your opinions for yourself. I'm no longer interested in having a conversation as it is obvious the tone of your posts won't change.

Where have I been uncivil? What have I done other than remind you that you bear the burden of proof for your assumptive claims about the feelings of the parents? How, on a debate site, is doing so disrespectful? I even said please.

I did find my sources, and none of them justify any of the assumptions you've made. I am not the one who is foisting my assumptions onto the parents. There is no information provided about their mindset or their feelings, so I have not made any comment on the matter whatsoever, other than to pose the question as to how you know that it is definitely malice motivating them, rather than any of the other half-dozen things it could be.