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Old 12-21-09, 05:45 AM   #21
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Re: Cheap ways to cool the earth

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Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
The implementation of man-made global cooling may not require the belief in AWG, or man made Global Warming.

The Arctic Ice Caps have been getting less ice during the Summer, for some years, for whatever reason. So, regardless of the reason for the reduction in Arctic Ice caps, except for the last few years, since Volcanos put up significant amounts of SO2, in 2008. So if the ice caps start getting smaller again, and there is insufficient Volcanic spewing of SO2, then Men can put the SO2 up there themselves, to reverse global warming, as needed to maintain the Arctic Ice Cap.


Volcanic Gases and Their Effects
Why Worry? Rock On!



..
Only a couple of wee problems with increasing the amount of SO2 in the atmosphere
Quote:
3) Acid rain

Rain water is naturally acidic due to carbon dioxide which partially reacts with water to give carbonic acid (H2O + CO2 -> H2CO3). When we talk about acid rain we mean the ENHANCED effect which is caused by other gases released when fossil fuels are burnt. Two gases are the main culprits:

* Sulphur dioxide - Fossil fuels often contain a lot of sulphur impurities which burn to give sulphur dioxide. The SO2 reacts with water in the atmosphere to from a weak solution of sulphuric acid.
* Nitrogen oxides - Under normal conditions nitrogen and oxygen don't react together. At very high temperatures (in an engine) a small proportion of oxygen reacts with nitrogen to give nitrogen oxides. These oxides react with water in the atmosphere to from a weak solution of nitric acid acid.

The dilute acid falls to ground as acid rain which causes the following problems:

* Lakes become acidic and plants and fishes die as a result
* Tree growth is damaged, whole forests can die as a result
* Acid rain attacks metal structures and also buildings made of limestone

One method of reducing the amount of SO2 that gets pumped into the atmosphere is to remove the sulphur impurities from the fuel. Can you think of any others? ANSWER.

Don't get global warming, ozone depletion and acid rain confused. They are all different.

The Earths Atmosphere
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Last edited by bowerbird; 12-21-09 at 05:47 AM.
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Old 12-21-09, 07:49 AM   #22
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Re: Cheap ways to cool the earth

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Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
The discussion is about screwing with climate just because some religious nuts think the world is getting hotter. So what I said is relevant. His idea is similar to what global cooling religious nuts many years ago proposed.
As I said before, the discussion is about "screwing with the climate" and assumes that the "religious nuts" are right. Whether or not they are right is irrelevant, because the purpose of THIS discussion is what effects different proposals to "screw with the climate" may have. The OP suggests a cheap way to "screw with the climate", as opposed to the relatively expensive prospect of reducing CO2 emissions.

Answer any of these questions to re-establish your relevance to this discussion, and quit trying to make this thread into YET ANOTHER one about whether AGW is real:

What do you think will be the effects of the proposal in the OP? Do you think it will cool the planet significantly? Do you think there will be any long term unintended effects, and what will they be?

In order to reduce the effect of higher concentrations of CO2 in the atmosphere, what alternative proposals do you suggest as being cheaper, more effective, or with less unintended effects?
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Old 12-21-09, 09:02 AM   #23
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Re: Cheap ways to cool the earth

C02 is a product of breathing. Plants need C02 to live. In turn, they give off 02 for humnans to breathe. What's the problem, here? It is the cycle of life. We all learned that in science class.
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Old 12-21-09, 10:24 AM   #24
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Re: Cheap ways to cool the earth

I have heard about that idea for awhile. I relay hate bumping more crap in our air to cover the crap we already have. How know health problems will come from that.

It may be all we have left sadly.

It will be vary difficult to get rid of both elements seeing how hard in the past it has to get rid of just one.

The scary thing about it is we may get dependent on this instead of dealing with the problem in the future.

Scary times are coming for our kids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
I just finished reading Superfreakonomics, the sequel to Freakonomics, and the authors have some very interesting ideas for how to reverse global warming WITHOUT spending a fortune to do so.

- Spray sulfur dioxide into the stratosphere through a super-tall smokestack. It would essentially be a hose that was miles long, held together with balloons. It could be attached to a factory's normal smokestacks, which would ejects its sulfur dioxide waste into the stratosphere (several miles up) instead of the troposphere (the near-surface air). A single hose on each of a mere two factories - one in the Northern Hemisphere and one in the Southern Hemisphere - would be sufficient. This would mirror the effect of a relatively large volcanic eruption like Mount Pinatubo, and would cool the earth by a couple degrees. TOTAL COST: $20 million in startup, $10 million per year.

- A fleet of wind-powered boats which sit in the ocean, and have underwater turbines to fling sea water into the atmosphere and create clouds. The white clouds, unlike the black ocean, would reflect sunlight and cool the earth by a couple degrees. TOTAL COST: A few billion dollars total.

What do you guys think? The technology for these already exists, and it would be much cheaper than the hundreds of billions we'd need to spend EVERY YEAR on climate change legislation. The scientists seem to think that these proposals are perfectly safe and feasible, but if they produced any unintended environmental consequences, the machines could easily be shut off and any damages would be reversed within a couple years.
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Old 12-21-09, 01:04 PM   #25
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Re: Cheap ways to cool the earth

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Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
Saw Myhrvold on CNN Sunday, his idea is to run a hose up 20 miles at the Antarctic and Arctic Circles, and pump 30 GPM SO2 into the upper atmosphere, to keep the poles cool.

He says his computer models are hopeful so far.


"Hose-to-the-Sky:" Still Spewing SO2 Idea to Stop Global Warming? : TreeHugger


..

I saw part of that interview on Fareed Zakaria - it was pretty interesting.
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Old 12-21-09, 06:03 PM   #26
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Re: Cheap ways to cool the earth

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Originally Posted by bowerbird View Post
Only a couple of wee problems with increasing the amount of SO2 in the atmosphere



The Earths Atmosphere
The injection of SO2 at the poles would be above the level of the clouds, and therefore above the level of the formation of rain.

Cloud Cloud


The SO2 is used up in the upper atmosphere, by some process, and does not come down as acid rain. I don't yet understand the details of the SO2 reactions above the clouds.




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Old 12-22-09, 12:36 AM   #27
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Re: Cheap ways to cool the earth

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Originally Posted by bicycleman View Post
C02 is a product of breathing. Plants need C02 to live. In turn, they give off 02 for humnans to breathe. What's the problem, here? It is the cycle of life. We all learned that in science class.
A problem for mankind bigger that Global Warming is Global cooling from super volcanos, VEI - 8.

Is the increase in siesmic activity over the past few years an indication that another Super Volcano is imminent? 2012?

2012 Online - Supervolcano

Mt Toba of Indonesia created darkness on Earth for 6 years, which was rough on mankind, 75,000 years ago.

The Toba mega-eruption, global cooling, and human evolution | UCAR & NCAR Staff Notes


We were not taught about Super Volcanos in school, because the history of Super Volcanos had not been researched until recently.



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Old 12-22-09, 04:41 AM   #28
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Re: Cheap ways to cool the earth

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Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
The injection of SO2 at the poles would be above the level of the clouds, and therefore above the level of the formation of rain.

Cloud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The SO2 is used up in the upper atmosphere, by some process, and does not come down as acid rain. I don't yet understand the details of the SO2 reactions above the clouds.




..
Sorry but if science tells us anything it is that what goes up MUST at some time come back down again - so your hypothesis is flawed
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