Should Muslims be permitted to immigrate to the United States

Gandhi>Bush · Sep 29, 2005

Diogenes said:
And how would YOU have proposed giving Iraqi citizens more freedom without annoying Saddam to the point where he would fight? Specific suggestions, please, not general platitudes. What specific arguments would you use to convince Assad and his supporters that he should become a nice person and remove himself from power in Syria?

How does Assad stay in power? What gives him control? What gives him power? What gives him money? Is it oil? What is it? Talk without action is air. I don't think talking would remove the likes of Assad or Saddam, not without action.

People fear a man for his control. A man controls people because he has power. He has power because he has money to back up that power. He has money because he has an industry. So the first attack must made there.

I've read all your posts, and they all seem to be based on the assumption that deep in the heart of every despot, there is a kind and gentle human being trying to get out. There is no evidence to support that assumption; the world can be a very harsh place.

Would you say that inside every despot there is a desire to do what is best for his people? Or merely himself? Both are answers we can capitalize on.

You are confusing the dispensing of justice with the initial offense. Moreover, it is foolish to assume that an animal like a terrorist is actually a human being - see previous paragraph.

I'm not confusing anything I'm trying to present the flaw in such thinking. Whether you like it or not a terrorist is a human being. I don't really know how you can argue otherwise.

The UN.

And the US and UK made it clear that they would block any lifting or serious reforming of sanctions as long as Hussein remained in power.

Saddam.

Saddam didn't enforce the sanctions. The UN did and the US and UK, on the security council, said that they would not allow them to be lifted despite the humanitarian crisis.

Dead wrong. Saddam was left to make altogether too many decisions on his own - what to buy, who to buy from, who to sell to - and it was the mistake of the UN to try to pressure that animal. Sometimes a carrot will work, sometimes a stick will work, and sometimes a combination of both is needed. Occasionally, you have to get out a rifle and simply put the poor beast out of your misery.

Pretty feeble sarcasm. 8-9 million Afghans I can understand, but there were nowhere near that many receiving aid in Afghanistan itself. Do you really think things are worse there now, since they no longer make a public spectacle out of executing dissidents in the soccer fields?

It's a UN statistical figure. That's all I can offer. I think a statistic like that making it to such a place where anti-Americanism thrives as it does is a terrible thing for America and for the people. We make it so easy for people to hate us. And hate us they do.

Palestinian Authority. Are you telling me you've never seen them referred to by their initials, and you are still tell me what a deep understanding you have of their problems?

Most people just say Palestinian Authority actually. No author I've read on the Arab-Israeli conflict calls it the PA.

[Records are scanty, since there have never been any survivors to explain their insanity.[/quote]

It is insane to refuse to be a killer?

LOL! The Iraqis had enough experience with Saddam, and the Syrians had enough experience with the Assad family, to know better than that. When you face a rabid tiger, you will want to be armed with something of a heavier caliber than a philosophy.

You really like animal analogies don't you?

Missouri Mule · Sep 30, 2005

Jenin said:
Hello Everyone,

This is my very first post on this website, and I hope to make an impact on this discussion with my fresh, intelligent and honest point of view.

First and Foremost, the Israeli Mossad is a very powerful intelligence service sustained through the billions of USD given to the Israeli state annually by the US government. The mossad's main objective is securing the sustained illegal occupation of Palestinian Land and Arab Land by the Israeli Military. The mossad operates globally and has been known to even spy on the US government in order to advance israel's security interests. Israeli Military supremacy and occupation of neighboring states and Palestinian Land is a security asset in the eyes of the Israeli Government. The mossad will continue functioning as the 'sixth sense' of occupation so long that this israeli agenda continues.

Muslims historically do not contribute to the majority of terrorist attacks. The Terrorist Oklahoma city Bombing was a creation of an 'All American' caucasian male and his organization. Arabs and Muslims have commited terrorist acts in recent history, especially against american interests. The American government and military have committed terrorism against Muslims and Arabs and continue to do so. The Civilian American population residing in muslim lands does not contribute to the terrorism commited by certain military or government people. They are peaceful and law abiding peoples that reside in muslim land and contribute beneficially to muslim society. The same point can be made regarding Muslims residing in the US, whether theyre immigrants or just temporary residents; they do no contribute to terrorism committed by certain muslim militants. The threat of terrorism will only increase if the government decides to contribute more effort and energy to a certain sect of american modern society because of its religeous or national bacground. Muslims constitute as much a threat to american interests as do Jews, Bhuddists, Hindus, or Methodists. I assure you that the US government and economy have not and will not only be terrorised by indivisuals or groups of muslim backgrounds. Terrorism has existed and will continue to exist for all time, and committed by victims. American militant occupation is terrorism in the eyes of 3/4 of the world as are al-qaeda's explosive attacks also terrorism to 3/4 of the world. That means half the world understands the real meaning of terrorism and is educated and ready to combat it effectively, while another half still suffers from igrnorance and continues to ignorantly inflame and incite the terrorist torch even more.

I sincerely suggest to all my friends here to read history books about the creation of Israel and the foundations of its terrorist beginnings and the role the Mossad plays in inciting anti-semitism (towards arabs) by stereo typing arab males as terrorists. Lets not get too caught up in mixing Islam and terrorism as if the two words seem to somehow exist in parallel in some wicked fourth dimension -- because then we would have created the ignorant black hole that will swallow us all into the flames of a class of civilizations waiting to happen.

Lets all take a huge breath, and think hard and deep about the politicians or governments smiling so blatantly in our faces. We cant be that naieve and ignorant can we? Please understand for yourselves, and read my friends. READ.

How can you possibly claim that not most terrorist attacks have not been done by Muslims? You equate this somehow with Oklahoma City. One screwball blows up a government building because of his hatred of what happened at Waco. He has now been executed and his collaborator doing about 15 life terms and will never be let out of jail.

Having said this, if it were up to me, I would move all the Israelis to North Dakota, Wyoming and eastern Montana. We could pack up the "Wailing Wall" (We moved the London Bridge over to Arizona) and a gallon of water from the River Jordan and bring them over here to live. The Muslims could have the Middle East all to themselves. Bottom line: I just want all of this crap to end. But in the end, why borrow trouble for ourselves by letting people in with a propensity for blowing themselves, others and buildings up in their quest for world domination as outlined by bin Laden? He doesn't want us over there. Fair enough. I don't want him or his kind over here. They can drink their oil as far as I am concerned. I would rather crawl on my hands and knees before paying oil tribute to anyone who has us by the short hairs.

Jenin · Sep 30, 2005

Hello Everyone,

1) Some of the people that replied to my post didnt seem to want to comprehend the point I was trying to make about terrorism, therefore I will try to elaborate some more in hopes of getting my point accross.

The most obvious and undisputed defenition of Terrorism is: the act violence intended to terrorize its victim.

In the United States, the Media (through Government channels and foreign influence) has stereo typed a terrorist as an able bodied muslim with radical views that uses unconventional methods of violence to destroy a certain target and send a message accross through the aftermath.

But if we try to think clearer about the meaning of the word terrorism, we will realize that the United States and her allies have committed many many more acts of violence with the intention of getting a message accross...The only difference is that the Governments used their 'conventional' military and weaponry to commit these acts of terror. If we are to continue to stereo type muslims and arabs and anyone commiting a violent crime that isnt part of a conventional military as a terrorist and continue to close our eyes to the same and more destructive crimes commited by our own representative governments then we have been brainwashed and there is no reason for any of us participating in this discussion to continue any further.

My comrades, terror is terror is crime is violence is conventional is nonconventional is state terror is group terror is individual terror. terror is terror. American occupation of iraq is terrorism. Al-qaedas crimes against the world are terrorism. Heroshima and Nagasaki is terrorism. Russian war against chechniya and chechen group attacks in russia are terrorism. 60 Year israeli occupation of Palestinian land, deprivation of four million refugees of their right of return, occupation of arab land, control of the water supply, monopolising the capitalist dictatorship in the middle east is state terrorism at its finest, funded and supported by the taxes we all pay every day buying our cappuchino, paper, ect. If we are to continue to ignore terrorism committed by the 'western suit wearing civilizations' and stereo type it to be a word unanimous with muslims and arabs then we are an ignorant people that deserve the two party dictatorship ruling us for the past century. Thomas Jefferson would be rolling in his grave if he knew that the 'free press' has limited our thinking and contrained our free spirit and will to greater civilization and become the governments greatest asset in controlling the american people.

For those of you who are willing to understand and have an open channel dialogue with me, I would like to end my point...Muslims are not and have never been the driving force behind terrorism, and terrorism is has not, is not, and will not be committed by muslims alone, and as it is now and has been -- the bulk of terrorism is not commited by muslims.

Fighting fire with fire will only create more fire.

Open your minds, quit being slaves in spirit.

Missouri Mule · Sep 30, 2005

Jenin said:
Hello Everyone,

1) Some of the people that replied to my post didnt seem to want to comprehend the point I was trying to make about terrorism, therefore I will try to elaborate some more in hopes of getting my point accross.

The most obvious and undisputed defenition of Terrorism is: the act violence intended to terrorize its victim.

In the United States, the Media (through Government channels and foreign influence) has stereo typed a terrorist as an able bodied muslim with radical views that uses unconventional methods of violence to destroy a certain target and send a message accross through the aftermath.

But if we try to think clearer about the meaning of the word terrorism, we will realize that the United States and her allies have committed many many more acts of violence with the intention of getting a message accross...The only difference is that the Governments used their 'conventional' military and weaponry to commit these acts of terror. If we are to continue to stereo type muslims and arabs and anyone commiting a violent crime that isnt part of a conventional military as a terrorist and continue to close our eyes to the same and more destructive crimes commited by our own representative governments then we have been brainwashed and there is no reason for any of us participating in this discussion to continue any further.

My comrades, terror is terror is crime is violence is conventional is nonconventional is state terror is group terror is individual terror. terror is terror. American occupation of iraq is terrorism. Al-qaedas crimes against the world are terrorism. Heroshima and Nagasaki is terrorism. Russian war against chechniya and chechen group attacks in russia are terrorism. 60 Year israeli occupation of Palestinian land, deprivation of four million refugees of their right of return, occupation of arab land, control of the water supply, monopolising the capitalist dictatorship in the middle east is state terrorism at its finest, funded and supported by the taxes we all pay every day buying our cappuchino, paper, ect. If we are to continue to ignore terrorism committed by the 'western suit wearing civilizations' and stereo type it to be a word unanimous with muslims and arabs then we are an ignorant people that deserve the two party dictatorship ruling us for the past century. Thomas Jefferson would be rolling in his grave if he knew that the 'free press' has limited our thinking and contrained our free spirit and will to greater civilization and become the governments greatest asset in controlling the american people.

For those of you who are willing to understand and have an open channel dialogue with me, I would like to end my point...Muslims are not and have never been the driving force behind terrorism, and terrorism is has not, is not, and will not be committed by muslims alone, and as it is now and has been -- the bulk of terrorism is not commited by muslims.

Fighting fire with fire will only create more fire.

Open your minds, quit being slaves in spirit.

Ah, the old Hiroshima and Nagasaki excuse. I'll ask you like I ask all the rest who condemn those acts. Did you have your orders to report for duty to storm the beaches of Japan in 1945? Yes, or no.

Surenderer · Sep 30, 2005

Missouri Mule said:
How can you possibly claim that not most terrorist attacks have not been done by Muslims? You equate this somehow with Oklahoma City. One screwball blows up a government building because of his hatred of what happened at Waco. He has now been executed and his collaborator doing about 15 life terms and will never be let out of jail.

Having said this, if it were up to me, I would move all the Israelis to North Dakota, Wyoming and eastern Montana. We could pack up the "Wailing Wall" (We moved the London Bridge over to Arizona) and a gallon of water from the River Jordan and bring them over here to live. The Muslims could have the Middle East all to themselves. Bottom line: I just want all of this crap to end. But in the end, why borrow trouble for ourselves by letting people in with a propensity for blowing themselves, others and buildings up in their quest for world domination as outlined by bin Laden? He doesn't want us over there. Fair enough. I don't want him or his kind over here. They can drink their oil as far as I am concerned. I would rather crawl on my hands and knees before paying oil tribute to anyone who has us by the short hairs.

/clap clap.....too bad I dont believe ya bro......It's easy to sit here now while holding all the cards and say you would give it up......are you though? do you take public transportation? do you car pool to work? What is Bin Laden kind? all Muslims? Terrorists? You have stated before that you cant tell the difference so I guess you mean the former.... I am not convienced though that if you took Israel and moved it to North Dokota and kicked out everyone who lived there previouslyand told them they couldnt return but they could have some nice pretty tents to live in and rationed water that North Dokotans(sp?) wouldnt be fighting Jews tommorow.....when one looks at the history of the Native Americans in the very State you speak of I am probably more right in this hypothetical situation than you are.....<shrug>....thats just my opinion though

peace

Surenderer · Sep 30, 2005

Missouri Mule said:
Ah, the old Hiroshima and Nagasaki excuse. I'll ask you like I ask all the rest who condemn those acts. Did you have your orders to report for duty to storm the beaches of Japan in 1945? Yes, or no.

How many kids and old people are worht killing to save America Serviceman lives in your opinon? Are the purpose targetting of civilians situational also too you?

Diogenes · Sep 30, 2005

Gandhi>Bush said:
How does Assad stay in power? What gives him control? What gives him power? What gives him money? Is it oil? What is it? Talk without action is air. I don't think talking would remove the likes of Assad or Saddam, not without action.

Assad stays in power through terrorism (look at what happened in Hama in 1982). Guns give him the power to appropriate the fruits of the people's labor, and therefore the money to buy more guns.

I'm glad to see you coming around to recognizing the need for action.

Would you say that inside every despot there is a desire to do what is best for his people? Or merely himself? Both are answers we can capitalize on.

Himself, generally, although there are a few historical examples of benevolent despots. How, specifically, do you propose to capitalize on that?

I'm not confusing anything I'm trying to present the flaw in such thinking. Whether you like it or not a terrorist is a human being. I don't really know how you can argue otherwise.

Unfortunately, not all two-legged creatures are fully human. Some, while they may be anatomically similar to humans, have no sense of shame or decency, no regard for any sensibilities but their own, and are utterly ruthless in pursuit of their personal goals (usually power, in the case of despots). Attempting to reason with them is as useful as attempting to reason with a hungry tiger, and the animal analogies are appropriate.

Saddam didn't enforce the sanctions. The UN did and the US and UK, on the security council, said that they would not allow them to be lifted despite the humanitarian crisis.

Saddam is the one who decided how the aid money from selling oil would be spent. Saddam is the one who chose to build palaces rather than feed his people. Saddam is the one who picked his vendors, and approved their delivery of worthless outdated food and medicine at inflated prices to bribe his chosen vendors.

It's a UN statistical figure. That's all I can offer.

That tells the tale.

Most people just say Palestinian Authority actually. No author I've read on the Arab-Israeli conflict calls it the PA.

Perhaps you should broaden your reading.

It is insane to refuse to be a killer?

I question the sanity of anyone who takes a knife to a gunfight.

You really like animal analogies don't you?

As noted earlier, they are more reliable predictors of outcome than the assumption that a despot like Saddam or Assad is a reasonable human being.

Diogenes · Sep 30, 2005

Surenderer said:
How many kids and old people are worht killing to save America Serviceman lives in your opinon? Are the purpose targetting of civilians situational also too you?

How many of your own children are you willing to sacrifice to save the lives of the families of the people who are trying to kill your family?

Surenderer · Sep 30, 2005

Diogenes said:
How many of your own children are you willing to sacrifice to save the lives of the families of the people who are trying to kill your family?

Question wasnt directed at you but at Missouri but your answer is I personally wouldnt sacrifice the lives of my children for anything......Nor would I want them to for me.....However I would lay down my life in a second for them....you are completely missing the point of my question though(or I am missing yours)

peace

Gandhi>Bush · Sep 30, 2005

Diogenes said:
Assad stays in power through terrorism (look at what happened in Hama in 1982). Guns give him the power to appropriate the fruits of the people's labor, and therefore the money to buy more guns.

Where does he get his guns? What do the people of Syria do that earns the money that Assad takes?

I'm glad to see you coming around to recognizing the need for action.

You will never hear me say that action is not needed. I only request the right kind of action.

Himself, generally, although there are a few historical examples of benevolent despots. How, specifically, do you propose to capitalize on that?

If his only concern is himself, then you make it beneficial for him to step down.

Unfortunately, not all two-legged creatures are fully human. Some, while they may be anatomically similar to humans, have no sense of shame or decency, no regard for any sensibilities but their own, and are utterly ruthless in pursuit of their personal goals (usually power, in the case of despots). Attempting to reason with them is as useful as attempting to reason with a hungry tiger, and the animal analogies are appropriate.

Shame? Decency? You don't think that a terrorist has these qualities? I think that they do. Their motivations are different, but to say that they lack any psychological traits in comparison to us is inaccurate.

Saddam is the one who decided how the aid money from selling oil would be spent. Saddam is the one who chose to build palaces rather than feed his people. Saddam is the one who picked his vendors, and approved their delivery of worthless outdated food and medicine at inflated prices to bribe his chosen vendors.

Is this what the Arab sees? Or does the Arab only see the US vowing that sanctions will not be lifted so long as that man is in power?

Perhaps you should broaden your reading.

Perhaps you could just type out Palestinian Authority?

I question the sanity of anyone who takes a knife to a gunfight.

What about one who refuses to kill?

Tashah · Sep 30, 2005

Gandhi>Bush said:
Where does he get his guns?

Most Syrian government armaments are purchased directly from foreign arms exporters and have valid end-user certificates.

However, Syria also utilizes an illegal offshore schema. Front companies run by a member of the Assad family operate many warehouses on small islands along Syria's 112 miles of coastline. These are for clandestine deliveries and either have invalid end-user certificates or no certificates at all. Arms shipments from theses islands are usually destined for such entities as Hizb'allah, Hamas, and the Iraqi insurgents. Precursors for chemical weapons are also unloaded at these offshore facilities.

TimmyBoy · Sep 30, 2005

Tashah said:
Most Syrian government armaments are purchased directly from foreign arms exporters and have valid end-user certificates.

However, Syria also utilizes an illegal offshore schema. Front companies run by a member of the Assad family operate many warehouses on small islands along Syria's 112 miles of coastline. These are for clandestine deliveries and either have invalid end-user certificates or no certificates at all. Arms shipments from theses islands are usually destined for such entities as Hizb'allah, Hamas, and the Iraqi insurgents. Precursors for chemical weapons are also unloaded at these offshore facilities.

I don't know what it is. Generally, I like reading your posts. Maybe it just comes naturally. Every time I read somebody who tries to have grammer, Jesus perfect posts, I find that I can't read it all because I feel like the person treats me as a formal professor grading their dissertation, rather than posting on a message board and having a informal conversation with a friend. No offense.

Tashah · Sep 30, 2005

TimmyBoy said:
I don't know what it is. Generally, I like reading your posts. Maybe it just comes naturally. Every time I read somebody who tries to have grammer, Jesus perfect posts, I find that I can't read it all because I feel like the person treats me as a formal professor grading their dissertation, rather than posting on a message board and having a informal conversation with a friend. No offense.

No offense taken. Probably a personal trifecta is at work here...

1) English is my third language, and I tend to use Hebrew structure when I write regardless of the language I am using. A tough habit to break.

2) I have double-degrees in Physics. This discipline demands a clear and concise writing style and this training tends to bleed over when I write... no matter the setting or medium.

3) As a practical matter in a political forum, word ambiguity leads to misunderstandings and the inevitable follow-up posts to clear up the latent semantical debris.

One would think that a certain level of clarity would be appreciated, but I also understand that the US education system cranks-out and promotes a far less taxing structure. No offense.

Tashah · Sep 30, 2005

?הבר הדימב תויהל הזה לעופ

Trajan Octavian Titus · Sep 30, 2005

Tashah said:
No offense taken. Probably a personal trifecta is at work here...

1) English is my third language, and I tend to use Hebrew structure when I write regardless of the language I am using. A tough habit to break.

2) I have double-degrees in Physics. This discipline demands a clear and concise writing style and this training tends to bleed over when I write... no matter the setting or medium.

3) As a practical matter in a political forum, word ambiguity leads to misunderstandings and the inevitable follow-up posts to clear up the latent semantical debris.

One would think that a certain level of clarity would be appreciated, but I also understand that the US education system cranks-out and promotes a far less taxing structure. No offense.

Hay the American educational system teach me to speak English good <-----hangs head in shame, moves to the corner of the room and places the dunse cap back on.

Tashah · Sep 30, 2005

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Hay the American educational system teach me to speak English good <-----hangs head in shame, moves to the corner of the room and places the dunse cap back on.

Nice try Trajan, but you are much more edumacated than that hun.

btw... perhaps you are unaware of this esoteric minutae, but 'Jack Rabbit' is also the trade name for a female ::ahem:: 'battery operated device' lol.

<blush>:3oops:</blush>

Missouri Mule · Sep 30, 2005

Surenderer said:
/clap clap.....too bad I dont believe ya bro......It's easy to sit here now while holding all the cards and say you would give it up......are you though? do you take public transportation? do you car pool to work? What is Bin Laden kind? all Muslims? Terrorists? You have stated before that you cant tell the difference so I guess you mean the former.... I am not convienced though that if you took Israel and moved it to North Dokota and kicked out everyone who lived there previouslyand told them they couldnt return but they could have some nice pretty tents to live in and rationed water that North Dokotans(sp?) wouldnt be fighting Jews tommorow.....when one looks at the history of the Native Americans in the very State you speak of I am probably more right in this hypothetical situation than you are.....<shrug>....thats just my opinion though

peace

Oh, I'm telling you the truth. I don't give a damn about the state of Israel. It is no skin off my butt which side wins over there. What I object to is the mostly (almost totally) number of Muslims who keep blowing people up. It's not my religion and I am not here to defend it. All I know is the daily (almost hourly) news of some other Muslim fanatic blowing Americans up for no good reason except they can't stand the idea of other Muslims having an opportunity to choose their own leaders. It is a stated fact over and over again how bin Laden and his gangsters want and expect to impose an Islamic dictatorship on all of mankind. Don't believe me. Believe bin Laden. He's your guy; not mine.

As far as the land out there. Ain't nobody living there. There's plenty for anyone who wants to live and farm there. I'm sure the Israelis could tame it soon enough. They have shown this capability in the past. And you know the great irony here is that it was the ancestors of the modern Islamist terrorists; namely the Nazis who brought this about the in the first place. If not for the displaced Jews in Europe after WWII, the state of Israel would never have been formed in 1948. As Casey Stengel might have said it, you can look it up.

And just to be perfectly clear; I ain't no Jew. I don't know no Jews; never speak or hear from any Jews but I know one thing. They ain't flying airbombs into office buildings and ain't blowing themselves and everyone else up every hour on the hour. I'm sick and tired of the tired excuses and the excuse mongers who trot out every reason in the world to excuse the terrorists.

UtahBill · Sep 30, 2005

New guy here. Muslim families are generally not the problem, and I suppose those can be admitted to the USA just like anyone else. Young, single males, tho, and I want to object. If it is political asylum they want, there are plenty of other countries that will take them in. If it is education they claim to want, there are plenty of good schools in other countries.
I am not all that happy with the relationship we have with the Saudiis, but our great leaders in DC must know better than I whether or not the relationship is mutually beneficial. Surely, they must. Please God, tell me they do.

Trajan Octavian Titus · Sep 30, 2005

Tashah said:
Nice try Trajan, but you are much more edumacated than that hun.

btw... perhaps you are unaware of this esoteric minutae, but 'Jack Rabbit' is also the trade name for a female ::ahem:: 'battery operated device' lol.

<blush>:3oops:</blush>

Actually I was referring to the Jack Rabbit mentioned by Hunter S. Thompson in the Great Shark Hunt when he discusses the analogous relation b/w himself and the Jack Rabbit. You see the Jack Rabbit likes to dodge traffic for the adrenalin rush but has to get closer and closer to the tires to get the same effect until one day splat! Much in the same way that both H.S.T. and I like to get as close as possible to our deadlines.

kal-el · Sep 30, 2005

I still think that all people should be allowed passage to the United States, but I think that we should charge an admission fee, kinda like a theme park.:2razz:

Missouri Mule · Sep 30, 2005

UtahBill said:
New guy here. Muslim families are generally not the problem, and I suppose those can be admitted to the USA just like anyone else. Young, single males, tho, and I want to object. If it is political asylum they want, there are plenty of other countries that will take them in. If it is education they claim to want, there are plenty of good schools in other countries.

I am not all that happy with the relationship we have with the Saudiis, but our great leaders in DC must know better than I whether or not the relationship is mutually beneficial. Surely, they must. Please God, tell me they do.

It is worthy of note that the master planner of 9/11 (Khalid Shaikh Mohammed) was educated and received a master's degree in America. For this his "thanks" was to murder in cold blood 3,000 innocent Americans on 9/11. And we want more of these people here? Why?

Tashah · Oct 1, 2005

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Actually I was referring to the Jack Rabbit mentioned by Hunter S. Thompson in the Great Shark Hunt when he discusses the analogous relation b/w himself and the Jack Rabbit. You see the Jack Rabbit likes to dodge traffic for the adrenalin rush but has to get closer and closer to the tires to get the same effect until one day splat! Much in the same way that both H.S.T. and I like to get as close as possible to our deadlines.

Trajan,
I did grasp your innocuous intent. My post was tongue-in-cheek, and intended as a folksy little example of stylistic appeasement.

TimmyBoy · Oct 1, 2005

Tashah said:
No offense taken. Probably a personal trifecta is at work here...

1) English is my third language, and I tend to use Hebrew structure when I write regardless of the language I am using. A tough habit to break.

2) I have double-degrees in Physics. This discipline demands a clear and concise writing style and this training tends to bleed over when I write... no matter the setting or medium.

3) As a practical matter in a political forum, word ambiguity leads to misunderstandings and the inevitable follow-up posts to clear up the latent semantical debris.

One would think that a certain level of clarity would be appreciated, but I also understand that the US education system cranks-out and promotes a far less taxing structure. No offense.

It's not a matter of the US education system. I am willing to go up against your best and brightest programmers and beat them. I am a product of the US education system. The military equipment that your nation used to defeat Soviet supplied arab nations was built by the software I wrote. I play to win, gladly accept a challenge and never shy away from competition with foreigners or other American citizens. You can learn just as much from the US education system as any education system in any country around the globe. It's all about your attitude, mentality and willingness to learn. I have worked with many programmers around the globe, so I know I can hang with the best. It's up to you and how much you want to learn. If you want to be the best, you will be better educated and better prepared than your competition, no matter where they were educated. Accept my apologies for sounding cocky.

TimmyBoy · Oct 1, 2005

Heck, the internet that you write to me on was the product of the US defense research in ARPANET. Do not under-estimate American scientists, engineers or programmers. I work with many brilliant American engineers and have full confidence that they can compete against any of the foreign engineers. At least, the ones that I work with.

Tashah · Oct 1, 2005

TimmyBoy said:
It's not a matter of the US education system. I am willing to go up against your best and brightest programmers and beat them.

My best and brightest programmers? Since I have dual Israeli/American citizenship, would you care to elaborate on exactly whom my best and brightest programmers would be?

TimmyBoy said:
I am a product of the US education system.

Then we share a partial commonality... the University of Chicago and the Institute for Cosmology and Particle Physics are on my ledger.

TimmyBoy said:
The military equipment that your nation used to defeat Soviet supplied arab nations was built by the software I wrote.

ThankQ Timmy... in all sincerity.
Perhaps you are now due for an update:

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/

TimmyBoy said:
I play to win, gladly accept a challenge and never shy away from competition with foreigners or other American citizens. You can learn just as much from the US education system as any education system in any country around the globe.

Agreed... if one is inclined to do that. That was not my overarching point. I would suggest that you peruse US Department of Education statistics regarding degrees awarded by American universities to US citizens in the exact sciences. You will discover that there is a distinct downwards trend in this regard.

About half of the American degrees awarded in this critical area of higher education are now awarded to foreign students. I agree that the US education system is first-rate in potential. However, downward trends in the exact sciences and engineering fields suggest that this system is somewhat dysfunctional in many critical areas.

TimmyBoy said:
It's all about your attitude, mentality and willingness to learn. I have worked with many programmers around the globe, so I know I can hang with the best. It's up to you and how much you want to learn. If you want to be the best, you will be better educated and better prepared than your competition, no matter where they were educated. Accept my apologies for sounding cocky.

No problemo. I also love a vibrant exchange of ideas!

However, you publically critiqued my style of writing (I would have done this in a private PM) and I responded... listing a trifecta of valid rationale. I can only wonder how well you yourself would fare in a political forum where only Hebrew or Arabic is used. Think about that scenario the next time you feel inclined to criticize another.

I would suggest that any further addendums to this exchange be taken to the Basement. teacher would just love the bourgeois entertainment

Should Muslims be permitted to immigrate to the United States

Should Muslims be permitted to immigrate to the United States?

Yes

No

Maybe

Unsure

Gandhi>Bush

Non-Passive Pascifist

Missouri Mule

Jenin

Well-known member

Missouri Mule

Surenderer

Active member

Surenderer

Active member

Diogenes

Diogenes

Surenderer

Active member

Gandhi>Bush

Non-Passive Pascifist

Tashah

TimmyBoy

Tashah

Tashah

Trajan Octavian Titus

Tashah

Missouri Mule

UtahBill

Trajan Octavian Titus

kal-el

Missouri Mule

Tashah

TimmyBoy

TimmyBoy

Tashah