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Should neocons be arrested?

Should we arrest neocons and charge them with Crimes Against Humanity?

  • yes

    Votes: 9 28.1%
  • no

    Votes: 23 71.9%

  • Total voters
    32
Originally posted by Harshaw:
Reaaaallllly. What threat does Sudan pose to us? When did they attack us? When did the UN authorize invasion?

These are not idle questions. These are your pillars for objecting to the invasion of Iraq.
What's going on in Sudan is very wrong and must be stopped. There was no such genocide going on in Iraq at the time we attacked. And when there was genocide in Iraq, even after we found out about it, we kept selling him the duel-use equipment to make the gas!
 
What's going on in Sudan is very wrong and must be stopped. There was no such genocide going on in Iraq at the time we attacked.

There was a violent repression of the Iraqi people and the policies of the Baathsit government resulted in many many deaths both through direct and indirect policies. There may not have been a massive al-Anfal type genocide taking place but there certainly was a quite campaign of mass murder occurring.

And when there was genocide in Iraq, even after we found out about it, we kept selling him the duel-use equipment to make the gas!


A) Show me one scrap of evidence that we supplied the technology or expertise needed to convert legal and benign agricultural chemicals into illegal and lethal WMD.

B) Not one drop of U.S. chemicals made it into his WMD program in the first place:

nyt-041303.gif
 
What's going on in Sudan is very wrong and must be stopped. There was no such genocide going on in Iraq at the time we attacked. And when there was genocide in Iraq, even after we found out about it, we kept selling him the duel-use equipment to make the gas!
so you love niggers
and hate sand niggers
gotcha:2wave:
 
Originally posted by DeeJayH:
so you love niggers
and hate sand niggers
gotcha
And you make less and less sense with every post.
 
What's going on in Sudan is very wrong and must be stopped. There was no such genocide going on in Iraq at the time we attacked.

Yet Sudan still has never attacked us, nor is any threat to us at all, and there is no UN authorization for invasion.

You said that "invasion" under these circumstances is illegal.

Or is it OK to invade illegally if you personally approve of the cause? Do you suddenly just not care about legality anymore? If not, why should we take you at all seriously when you go on about it in other situations?
 
Yet Sudan still has never attacked us, nor is any threat to us at all, and there is no UN authorization for invasion.

You said that "invasion" under these circumstances is illegal.

Or is it OK to invade illegally if you personally approve of the cause? Do you suddenly just not care about legality anymore? If not, why should we take you at all seriously when you go on about it in other situations?
hence, my posts int this thread
 
Originally posted by Harshaw:
Yet Sudan still has never attacked us, nor is any threat to us at all, and there is no UN authorization for invasion.

You said that "invasion" under these circumstances is illegal.

Or is it OK to invade illegally if you personally approve of the cause? Do you suddenly just not care about legality anymore? If not, why should we take you at all seriously when you go on about it in other situations?
You got such a hard on, Harshaw, for sticking it to me, you miss certain obvious points:

Show me anywhere I said this action should be done without UN assistance!
 
You got such a hard on, Harshaw, for sticking it to me, you miss certain obvious points:

Show me anywhere I said this action should be done without UN assistance!
absolutely
cause nobody can do anything without the UN
especially since they do everything so well :roll:
the UN is a waste of time/space/resources
 
Originally posted by DeeJayH:
absolutely
cause nobody can do anything without the UN
especially since they do everything so well
the UN is a waste of time/space/resources
Well, shut my mouth, what a coincedence,
I feel the same way about you!
 
You got such a hard on, Harshaw, for sticking it to me

Oh, waaaaaah. Go to your room and have a nice cry. I'll even give you a lollipop if you like.


Show me anywhere I said this action should be done without UN assistance!

If you want to talk about armed aggression in the Sudan, that is not only a "must," it is also "just" and I am in complete support of that action.

If you are talking armed aggression in Iran, Iraq or Afganistan, no way, I'm against it.

Given the context of the conversation and your view of "armed aggression," there you are.

But of course, that's not what you meant . . . :roll:

But I'll throw it back to you anyway . . . if the UN never gives its imprimatur, which it probably won't, should we invade anyway?
 
“They created the United Nations but they forget to give them a presentation when the U.N. might be against a war of their instigation.

Isn’t their Democracy Hypocrisy?”
(Tuesday, April 24, 2001, 2:12:40 PM)

“We can't bomb anyone unless they are an imminent threat or we receive authorization from the UNSC.” (Billo_Really)
http://southmovement.alphalink.com.au/countries/

Billo_Really first supports the arrest of Democrats like Bill Clinton or the only reason this topic is about Neocons is because Billo_Really is a hypocrite.

*****

Warning: the following is a gratuitous copy and paste of crap Billo_Really has previously seen; there is no need to reinvent the wheel every time the hysterically blind and dumb refuse to accept it:

“Deploring also that the Government of Iraq has failed to comply with its commitments pursuant to resolution 687 (1991) with regard to terrorism, pursuant to resolution 688 (1991) to end repression of its civilian population…” CNN.com - Text of U.N. resolution on Iraq - Nov. 8, 2002

Read and weep:

“Acting under Chapter VII of the Charter,
1. Demands that Iraq comply fully with resolution 660 (1990) and all subsequent relevant resolutions, and decides, while maintaining all its decisions, to allow Iraq one final opportunity, as a pause of goodwil, to do so;
2. Authorizes Member States co-operating with the Government of Kuwait, unless Iraq on or before 15 January 1991 fully implements, as set forth in paragraph 1 above, the foregoing resolutions, to use all necessary means to uphold and implement resolution 660 (1990) and all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security in the area;” dalebroux.com

“Recalling that its resolution 678 (1990) authorized Member States to use all necessary means to uphold and implement its resolution 660 (1990) of 2 August 1990 and all relevant resolutions subsequent to Resolution 660 (1990) and to restore international peace and security in the area,” CNN.com - Text of U.N. resolution on Iraq - Nov. 8, 2002

What part of those laws that did you not understand? It was a cease-fire “between Iraq and Kuwait and the Member States cooperating with Kuwait in accordance with resolution 678 (1990).” A “cease-fire” means that the war never ended with a peace treaty, I should not have to say that, and Iraq violated the cease-fire. And the United Nations already authorized us “to use all necessary means to uphold and implement resolution 660 (1990) and all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security in the area,” and no resolution existed at the time removing the authorization. Bush was legally correct, no further resolution was necessary. That is how the law works, learn to read it, and deal with it. If you could learn to read the law, when it comes out, maybe you could learn to write one that does what you want.

“H32. Requires Iraq to inform the Security Council that it will not commit or support any act of international terrorism or allow any organization directed towards commission of such acts to operate within its territory and to condemn unequivocally and renounce all acts, methods and practices of terrorism;
I
33. Declares that, upon official notification by Iraq to the Secretary-General and to the Security Council of its acceptance of the provisions above, a formal cease-fire is effective between Iraq and Kuwait and the Member States cooperating with Kuwait in accordance with resolution 678 (1990);” RESOLUTION 687 (1991) Adopted by the Security Council at its 2981st meeting, on 3 April 1991

August, 1996: “More than 600,000 Iraqi children have died due to lack of food and medicine and as a result of the unjustifiable aggression (sanction) imposed on Iraq and its nation. The children of Iraq are our children. You, the USA, together with the Saudi regime are responsible for the shedding of the blood of these innocent children. Due to all of that, what ever treaty you have with our country is now null and void.
The treaty of Hudaybiyyah was cancelled by the messenger of Allah (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) once Quraysh had assisted Bani Bakr against Khusa'ah, the allies of the prophet (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him). The prophet (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) fought Quraysh and concurred Makka. He (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) considered the treaty with Bani Qainuqa' void because one of their Jews publicly hurt one Muslim woman, one single woman, at the market.” (Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places.) http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html

March 1997: “Though Bin Ladin had promised Taliban leaders that he would be circumspect, he broke this promise almost immediately, giving an inflammatory interview to CNN in March 1997. The Taliban leader Mullah Omar promptly "invited" Bin Ladin to move to Kandahar, ostensibly in the interests of Bin Ladin's own security but more likely to situate him where he might be easier to control.73
There is also evidence that around this time Bin Ladin sent out a number of feelers to the Iraqi regime, offering some cooperation. None are reported to have received a significant response. According to one report, Saddam Hussein's efforts at this time to rebuild relations with the Saudis and other Middle Eastern regimes led him to stay clear of Bin Ladin.74“(The 9/11 commission report, page 65-66)
National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
details

July 1997: “Those who desire to face up to the Zionists conspiracies, intransigence, and aggressiveness must proceed towards the advance centers of capabilities in the greater Arab homeland and to the centers of the knowledge, honesty and sincerity with whole heartiness if the aim was to implement a serious plan to save others from their dilemma or to rely on those capable centers; well-known for their positions regarding the enemy, to gain precise concessions from it with justified maneuvers even if such centers including Baghdad not in agreement with those concerned, over the objectives and aims of the required maneuvers." (On the 29th anniversary of Iraq’s national day (the 17th of July 1968 revolution). President Saddam Hussein made an important comprehensive and nation wide address) http://southmovement.alphalink.com.au/countries/Iraq/speech.htm

February 17, 1998: “While speaking at the Pentagon on February 17, 1998, President Bill Clinton warned of the ‘reckless acts of outlaw nations and an unholy axis of terrorists, drug traffickers and organized international criminals.’ These ‘predators of the twenty-first century,’ he said ‘will be all the more lethal if we allow them to build arsenals of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and missiles to deliver them. We simply cannot allow that to happen. There is no more clear example of this threat than Saddam Hussein's Iraq.’“ Bombing of Iraq (December 1998) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Text Of Clinton Statement On Iraq - February 17, 1998

One Iraq, Two Iraq, Three Iraq!
 
Never mind that since Resolution 1483, the US mission in Iraq has been sanctioned by the UN.
 
Oh, waaaaaah. Go to your room and have a nice cry. I'll even give you a lollipop if you like.

Given the context of the conversation and your view of "armed aggression," there you are.

But of course, that's not what you meant . . . :roll:

But I'll throw it back to you anyway . . . if the UN never gives its imprimatur, which it probably won't, should we invade anyway?
I'll take that as a "no", you can't.
 
Show me any Resolution on Iraq that contain the words "regime change".

Right. Like the UN, or any diplomatic body, would ever use those exact words.

The UN recognizes the US and the UK as the legitimate authority in Iraq. In fact, it even uses the word "Authority" -- capitalized -- to underscore it.
 
I'll take that as a "no", you can't.

But you didn't answer the question.

If the UN never gives approval for the invasion of Sudan, do you support us going in anyway? Seeing as they are no threat to us or our interests?

It's a simple yes-or-no question.
 
Never mind that since Resolution 1483, the US mission in Iraq has been sanctioned by the UN.

I really like the part about ending “Oil for Food,” as if Peace for Greed wasn’t an act of war in itself, it reminds me of standing in line at the Grocery store in Yosemite for the very first time. The only time I was at Yosemite some liberal hippy Californian tree hugger with an armload of groceries, who had a Jeep covered in mud, was complaining about all the people polluting his park. When someone like James Watt suggests charging higher fees to discourage repeated access, when CARS were polluting the park, the “liberals” cried louder than they did about the oil rigs that put thick soles on my unsuspecting bare feet while walking on a California beach. I can still remember my “Valley Girl” girlfriend laughing at me while I sat there scraping that crap off.

Billo_Really does not believe Hussein was supporting terrorism, what a joke:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/war-terror/20826-terrorists-not-terrorists-33.html#post574118

Billo_Really would have us believe Saddam’s 1997 call for “Jihad and proper action” was peaceful, and not support for terrorism, but “What we have done in Iraq, is
STATE SANCTIONED TERRORISM,” what another joke:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/war-terror/20826-terrorists-not-terrorists-9.html#post562681

From 911 till now “liberals” have made me copy and paste these two things many times:

“Throughout the year, the Taliban continued to host Usama Bin Ladin--indicted in November 1998 for the bombings of two US Embassies in East Africa--despite US and UN sanctions, a unanimously adopted United Security Council resolution, and other international pressure to deliver him to stand trial in the United States or a third country. The United States repeatedly made clear to the Taliban that they will be held responsible for any terrorist acts undertaken by Bin Ladin while he is in their territory.”
1999 Global Terrorism: Asia Overview

“Whereas the Iraq Liberation Act (Public Law 105-338) expressed the sense of Congress that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove from power the current Iraqi regime and promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime;”
Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq

After a while it gets really old.

“I will not respond to any of your posts if they include quotes. “ (Billo_Really)
http://www.debatepolitics.com/war-terror/22578-chomsky-us-terrorist-state-19.html#post613316
 
Originally posted by DivineComedy:
I really like the part about ending “Oil for Food,” as if Peace for Greed wasn’t an act of war in itself,
We knew all about where that OFF money was going for years, but said nothing. Why was that?
 
But you didn't answer the question.

If the UN never gives approval for the invasion of Sudan, do you support us going in anyway? Seeing as they are no threat to us or our interests?

It's a simple yes-or-no question.
That would be a simple - YES!

Happy?
 
Right. Like the UN, or any diplomatic body, would ever use those exact words.

The UN recognizes the US and the UK as the legitimate authority in Iraq. In fact, it even uses the word "Authority" -- capitalized -- to underscore it.
This happen's to be one of the issues I have with the UN. I don't see how the invasion can be illegal, but the occupation legal. If you want to start a thread on this issue, I'll be happy to post up anytime.
 
That would be a simple - YES!

Happy?

Ah, so all this talk of "legality" is indeed sophistry for you, because in reality, you don't care about it.

I'm glad we've established that unequivocally.
 
This happen's to be one of the issues I have with the UN. I don't see how the invasion can be illegal, but the occupation legal. If you want to start a thread on this issue, I'll be happy to post up anytime.

Seeing as you don't actually care about legality, why should it make any difference to you?
 
We knew all about where that OFF money was going for years, but said nothing. Why was that?

To me it is somewhat amazing when I repeatedly use a mantra about the Lukewarm “liberal” arts of war of Oil for Food and Peace for Greed, and it just goes right over your head to the point of asking such a question. You know the answer.

Greed Billo, Greed. That is the answer to your question.

When a “liberal” Democrat on the long shut down “liberal” Daytona Beach News-Journal message board by the moniker of “Reason” claimed that Bill Clinton did not go to war in Iraq, and we had Peace and a great economy, I coined it “Peace for Greed.”

It is like the weirdest state of denial, to claim Iraq had nothing to do with the February 23, 1998 fatwa, which preceded the 400 cruise missiles or embers thrown by Bill Clinton:

“Yes, vanity needs to be confronted, and the oppressor needs to be confronted, just as those who find it easy to commit evil deeds and throw embers at people, need to be confronted.
(Saddam Hussein Shabban 13, 1422 H. October 29, 2001.) {bold emphasis mine}

I think those “embers” Saddam was talking about could be the cruise missiles that Bill Clinton almost ran out of, but hey, I’m the only nut on the entire internet that had a copy of Saddam‘s speech up for context after Shock and Awe had took down his site.

It should probably be put as, “Peace” for Greed, but I would think it is somewhat obvious that I am being facetious about the Peace part.

The whole damn thing in Iraq is a freaking tragedy, but I would be damned if freaking Saddam should get away with the part he played. If we aren’t going to finish a freaking war, don’t go. That is why I voted for the anti-war candidate Andre Marrou in 1992, maybe there was a Green running that you voted for…

I knew who the Greens were supporting before I ever came on this message board.

“I would like everyone to eat their Greens:“
http://www.debatepolitics.com/archives/2947-see-no-evil.html#post59790

Ramsey Clark, former U.S. Attorney General…David Muller, South Movement, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia”
Workers World Oct. 4, 2001: Join a new anti-war coalition

See your Greens, South Movement and Saddam, all in bed there?
 
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