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The Pro-Choice of Life

Furthermore, the HUGE difference is that the pro-choicer (assuming she did have an abortion even though that's not required to be "pro-choice) doesn't have a child and never did.

The deadbeat dad makes a choice to not acknowledge a child. Prochoicers, whether they've aborted or not, do the same damn thing. Look above at your reply for case in point.
 
The deadbeat dad makes a choice to not acknowledge a child. Prochoicers, whether they've aborted or not, do the same damn thing. Look above at your reply for case in point.

Incorrect. There is no child involved with abortion.

And how can a person who never had an abortion and is raising children "make a choice not to acknowledge a child"?

The "dead beat dad" is only a "dead beat" IMO, when he agrees to the birth of a child and then later ditches it and the mother.
 
Incorrect. There is no child involved with abortion.
Semantics. And faulty at that.

child /tʃaɪld/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[chahyld] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural chil·dren.
1. a person between birth and full growth; a boy or girl: books for children.
2. a son or daughter: All my children are married.
3. a baby or infant.
4. a human fetus.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/child

And how can a person who never had an abortion and is raising children "make a choice not to acknowledge a child"?
It's quite simple really. You run around arguing for the rights of women who want to kill the child in their womb and you justify the argument by saying it's not a child. You view it as perfectly acceptable to attend baby showers for the wanted children while drooling over slogans like "every child a wanted child" which makes no sense whatsoever because how can every child born be a wanted child unless you okay the killing of the unwanted ones which you then later claim aren't even children anyway.

The "dead beat dad" is only a "dead beat" IMO, when he agrees to the birth of a child and then later ditches it and the mother.
Right and the men who make a choice to abandon their woman and child while the babe is still in the womb? What those men should be celebrated?:roll: Funny I don't see the feminists out in force fighting for laws to back up that brand of crazy. Wonder why that is?
 
Right and the men who make a choice to abandon their woman and child while the babe is still in the womb? What those men should be celebrated?:roll: Funny I don't see the feminists out in force fighting for laws to back up that brand of crazy. Wonder why that is?

Why do we not "allow" it as a society? Because our laws are inherently unfair to men when it comes to reproductive rights. Many women want their cake and eat it too, and it's wrong. Men should be given a choice in the matter as long as women have a choice in the matter.
 
Why do we not "allow" it as a society? Because our laws are inherently unfair to men when it comes to reproductive rights. Many women want their cake and eat it too, and it's wrong. Men should be given a choice in the matter as long as women have a choice in the matter.

Yeah right as long as its the children who pay the price all irresponsible adults should get to feel like they have choice.
 
Yeah right as long as its the children who pay the price all irresponsible adults should get to feel like they have choice.

I do agree that it's entirely irresponsible for someone to bring into the world a child that they cannot take care of. Which is why abortion is the most responsible choice for some people. The only time a child pays the price is when irresponsible people bring children into the world that they cannot care for. The choice comes into play long before a child could be made to "pay the price". Unfortunately, some people choose the irresponsible option (having a kid when they can't afford it) and children do pay the price. It is most sad indeed. I do agree with you there.

But if a man makes it known to the woman that he wants NO PART of a child's life should the woman decide to have it, then it's upon the woman to determine if she can take care of the child by herself and make a decision accordingly.
 
Semantics. And faulty at that.

child /tʃaɪld/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[chahyld] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural chil·dren.
1. a person between birth and full growth; a boy or girl: books for children.
2. a son or daughter: All my children are married.
3. a baby or infant.
4. a human fetus.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/child

Most abortions are done before the 8th week when the embryo becomes a fetus. Since your definition specifies "fetus", it is correct to say that abortion doesn't involve a child MOST of the time.
 
Most abortions are done before the 8th week when the embryo becomes a fetus. Since your definition specifies "fetus", it is correct to say that abortion doesn't involve a child MOST of the time.

Got a source showing most abortions done prior to 8 weeks?
 
"Morality" has a fundamental problem in that it is arbitrary. Things claimed to be moral in one culture may be disallowed in another. This leads to stupid claims that one culture's morals are better than some other culture's morals, and Historically has even led to war on occasion.

"Abitrary" means that "there is no accounting for taste" in this case.

This is why I prefer to focus on "ethics" instead of "morals". Ethics is not based on arbitrary claims; the concept came along long after morals were well-established.

Ethics can be said to be a study of the consequences of Attempting to Select a Rational Basis for a Society. The Basis may be somewhat arbitrary, but it is not forced on anyone the way morals are. If you don't like a particular Basis, you can go elsewhere and select a different one, and hope others join you.

It should be obvious that if Ethics is to be Universal, then it must select a Basis upon which everyone can agree. This is the best one that I'm aware of:

"People must get along with each other, for a Society to persist in the long long run."

All the Ethics that follows from that Basis must be "in tune" with it. Murder can be denounced simply because it is about people NOT getting along with each other. Ditto with theft and various other commonly-considered-to-be-crimes.

Allowabiltiy of abortion in such a Society depends on the definition of "people", at the very least, but consideration of "get along with each other" is relevant, too. After all, how can you "get along with" a fetus, if you think its actions can be described as "parasitic"? One of the things that people can do, to get along with each other, is "compromise". Every person has selfish desires; this is Known Fact. When conflicting desires meet, compromise is necessary for the people involved to get along with each other.

Well. It happens that a fetus cannot be compromised-with. It will sefishly continue to act in a manner that can be called "parasitic", no matter how much its host pleads for some kind of behavior that is less like theft. Is it any wonder that it is easy to conclude that a fetus does not qualify as a "person"? If it simply cannot do something that persons absolutely must be able to do ("compromise", not "refrain from acting parasitically"), to get along with each other, then why should it be considered to be equal to the persons who can work out compromises, and who thereby are working to help Society persist over the long long run?

In general, no mere animal can be compromised-with. They are incapable of it, although many can be trained in a way that might be interpreted as their saying something like, "Feed me and I'll perform!". This is an illusion, as the training process typically includes both positive and negative reinforcement ("carrot and stick" psychology). Real compromise does not normally include punishments for not accepting the deal.

In conclusion, the evidence is that unborn humans are only animals, and don't need to be treated much differently than the way most other ordinary animals are treated. So, if their actions are considered to be parasitic, they can be exterminated like other parasites. And if their actions are not considered to be parasitic, they can be coddled or ignored or something-in-between. Simple.
 
So basically a bit more than half are done in the first 8 weeks. :roll:

Subtract from the remainder those that are done for medical reasons, that means most elective abortions are done while the conceptus is an embryo.
BTW, "most" means "greatest in quantity, extent, or degree or the majority of". So basically a bit more than half is "most".
 
So basically a bit more than half are done in the first 8 weeks. :roll:

Well, they won't do them at all until six weeks (at least, that was the case until recently, and I'm not aware that it's changed), and a two-week window of opportunity is not much.
Also, not everyone can pull five or six hundred dollars cash out of their arse at the drop of a hat; this is even more true of the poor women, many of them single mothers, who comprise the majority of abortion recipients.
It probably takes some of them at least five or six weeks to raise that kind of money, and I don't even want to think about how they manage it.
 
Well, they won't do them at all until six weeks (at least, that was the case until recently, and I'm not aware that it's changed), and a two-week window of opportunity is not much.
Also, not everyone can pull five or six hundred dollars cash out of their arse at the drop of a hat; this is even more true of the poor women, many of them single mothers, who comprise the majority of abortion recipients.
It probably takes some of them at least five or six weeks to raise that kind of money, and I don't even want to think about how they manage it.

Expecting me to feel sorry for the plight of the parents suffering as they try to squeeze together some change to pay a white coat to kill their baby is just pointless. It's not gonna happen. :2wave:
 
Expecting me to feel sorry for the plight of the parents suffering as they try to squeeze together some change to pay a white coat to kill their baby is just pointless. It's not gonna happen. :2wave:

Yeah, you'll feel sympathy for a lump of cells but not for a fully-developed human being. Your lack of sympathy is noted.
 
Yeah, you'll feel sympathy for a lump of cells but not for a fully-developed human being. Your lack of sympathy is noted.

I'd rather aid the woman who is struggling to support her child then decide that just killing the babies is an easier solution.
 
I'd rather aid the woman who is struggling to support her child then decide that just killing the babies is an easier solution.

Then put your money where your mouth is and let us know how many women you have personally supported.

We'll wait for the numbers.
 
Then put your money where your mouth is and let us know how many women you have personally supported.

We'll wait for the numbers.

Well I've helped countless numbers of women. With both time and money. In fact I'm a sucker for women who seem like they're having a hard time particularly if they have kids. My husband thinks I get taken advantage of. Even when I'm just giving away stuff my kids no longer need I go out of my way to find out who can best use it in my community before I haul off leftovers to goodwill. There's no way I could prove what I do to you but I'm well known in my community.
 
Well I've helped countless numbers of women. With both time and money. In fact I'm a sucker for women who seem like they're having a hard time particularly if they have kids. My husband thinks I get taken advantage of. Even when I'm just giving away stuff my kids no longer need I go out of my way to find out who can best use it in my community before I haul off leftovers to goodwill. There's no way I could prove what I do to you but I'm well known in my community.

It's true.
I went to Tallouville and ask some random, oppressed-looking single mom on the street if she knew Talloulou, and she said she did; she said Talloulou once gave her a slightly soiled footed one-piece sleepsuit, a teletubby mobile, and two pairs of rubber training pants.
So, you know... I can vouch for the veracity of this statement.
 
It's true.
I went to Tallouville and ask some random, oppressed-looking single mom on the street if she knew Talloulou, and she said she did; she said Talloulou once gave her a slightly soiled footed one-piece sleepsuit, a teletubby mobile, and two pairs of rubber training pants.
So, you know... I can vouch for the veracity of this statement.

:moon: :angel?:
 
Well I've helped countless numbers of women. With both time and money. In fact I'm a sucker for women who seem like they're having a hard time particularly if they have kids. My husband thinks I get taken advantage of. Even when I'm just giving away stuff my kids no longer need I go out of my way to find out who can best use it in my community before I haul off leftovers to goodwill. There's no way I could prove what I do to you but I'm well known in my community.

That's great and something you should be proud of.
 
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