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Unreported Israeli Terror

who is the agressor, the occuier or the occupied? this is the eternal question...well it is known all around the world, it is acceptable for all cases except this case. this case is different says the american man and the israeli government.
 
well if they do not get their occupied land back then they will continue to fight. it is their right to resist occupation.

Well, that's their choice. And Israel's only choice then is to kill them. Can't really blame Israel for that though.

as for blaming the palestinians for getting killed by israel

i refer you the site link i posted. bowse through it, check it out.

I did. Not only was I not impressed, you still haven't addressed my point. Referring me to a website is not addressing it.
 
who is the agressor, the occuier or the occupied? this is the eternal question...well it is known all around the world, it is acceptable for all cases except this case. this case is different says the american man and the israeli government.

Who is the aggressor, the one that aggresses or the one that retaliates? Except for those in America and Israel, no one seems to get the answer to this. If Palestinians don't want to have aggression enacted on them, STOP BEING THE AGGRESSOR.
 
we can play this blame game all day and get to no where.

kleize,

then welcome to the club, join your fellow americans and israeli occupation, wave the american flag and call for the genocide of the palestinians, because they are not going to sit quiet and watch their land get stolen.

i do not agree with your logic. i blame israeli bombings shelling and it's occupation. ending the occupation is in their hands. they prefer to confiscate land and deprive palestinians of their human rights. the occupation will face resistance. it is sad for me to see this happening, but the zionist expansionists dont want to give up the land and they are in power right now.
 
we can play this blame game all day and get to no where.

I was just about to post the same thing. I think this is a good example of what is happening in the Middle East. Both sides are pointing fingers. I wonder if it is possible to turn this thread, for example around, and discuss some solutions that can be worked out by both. Wanna give a try, Jenin? :)
 
sure,

i asked shayah and tashah what they thought a solution they could accept as israelis was

here is something i think most palestinians would accept:

Palestinian right of return: the refugees would be compensated for their property and allowed to live in the west bank instead of israel proper where ther left so not to threaten israel's jewish majority demographic.

in return for palestinians giving up their right of return ( un resolution 338 ) and living in palestinian west bank instead, israeli settlements including maali adumim which bisects the westbank in half would be dismantled. Or the equivalent land mass and population of the settler lands in the palestinian west bank would be given to the palestinian refugees in israel proper. 1 for 1 exchange.

agreed that palestinians would not have a military.

east jerusalem as the capital, west as israels, muslim/christian parts of the old city for the palestinians and jewish parts for the israelis

return of water resources, confiscated taxes ect ect
super highway between west bank and gaza

full arab/world recognition of palestinian and israeli states.

mosnter celebration party... heheh
 
we can play this blame game all day and get to no where.

kleize,

then welcome to the club, join your fellow americans and israeli occupation, wave the american flag and call for the genocide of the palestinians,

Nobody's calling for genocide.

because they are not going to sit quiet and watch their land get stolen.

Well, if they hadn't attacked Israel multiple times, they wouldn't have lost their land. That's how war works. If you are not prepared to deal with the consequences of losing it, you shouldn't start it.

i do not agree with your logic.

Then counter it.

i blame israeli bombings shelling and it's occupation.

This is not countering it. You have yet to demonstrate why Military A is not at fault for hiding behind civilians.

ending the occupation is in their hands.

Why should they end it? They won the land fair and square.

=Jenin;472116]they prefer to confiscate land and deprive palestinians of their human rights.

Unsubstantiated.

=Jenin;472116] the occupation will face resistance. it is sad for me to see this happening, but the zionist expansionists dont want to give up the land and they are in power right now.

Exactly right. They are in power.
 
I was just about to post the same thing. I think this is a good example of what is happening in the Middle East. Both sides are pointing fingers. I wonder if it is possible to turn this thread, for example around, and discuss some solutions that can be worked out by both. Wanna give a try, Jenin? :)

I'm not interested in that at all. I see no reason why Israel should have to give anything up, they are completely in the right here.
 
good for you kelzie.

i just hope the world doesnt go the way you want it to go, or else we palestinians are done as a people.
 
sure,

i asked shayah and tashah what they thought a solution they could accept as israelis was

here is something i think most palestinians would accept:

Palestinian right of return: the refugees would be compensated for their property and allowed to live in the west bank instead of israel proper where ther left so not to threaten israel's jewish majority demographic.

in return for palestinians giving up their right of return ( un resolution 338 ) and living in palestinian west bank instead, israeli settlements including maali adumim which bisects the westbank in half would be dismantled. Or the equivalent land mass and population of the settler lands in the palestinian west bank would be given to the palestinian refugees in israel proper. 1 for 1 exchange.

agreed that palestinians would not have a military.

east jerusalem as the capital, west as israels, muslim/christian parts of the old city for the palestinians and jewish parts for the israelis

return of water resources, confiscated taxes ect ect
super highway between west bank and gaza

full arab/world recognition of palestinian and israeli states.

mosnter celebration party... heheh

I must go out for a bit. Let me consider this and then my position. The party sound good. :)
 
I'm not interested in that at all. I see no reason why Israel should have to give anything up, they are completely in the right here.

Listening to potential solutions is usually a good thing. Doesn't mean they need to be accepted, but at least dialogue can be started.
 
ok... its getting really late here and i will probably join the discussion later.
 
good for you kelzie.

i just hope the world doesnt go the way you want it to go, or else we palestinians are done as a people.

Don't be so dramatic. I've already said I support a two-state solution.
 
Listening to potential solutions is usually a good thing. Doesn't mean they need to be accepted, but at least dialogue can be started.

Listening to someone means their position is a valid one worthy of merit. I have yet to see an argument from those that support Palestinian's tactics that is either valid or worthy of merit.
 
kelzie,

I have provided dozens of links, documentations.

please google human sheilds occupied territories. israeli troops have used this tactic and it is well documented.

provide me with documentation that palestinian militants have been purposly using human sheilds as to amount to the grotesque civilian fatalities on the palestinian side.

please check the betselem links i provided in this discussion, you should find most information i would push forward in debating you regarding confiscation of land and deprivation of human rights ect -- that is my substansiation.
have a good day,
its 2:12 am here in the middle east, a cold night and i am going to hit the sack, got a long day of studying ahead of me. i might join the debate tomorrow. i just felt inclined to try to respond to your post. g'night.
 
kelzie,

I have provided dozens of links, documentations.

please google human sheilds occupied territories. israeli troops have used this tactic and it is well documented.

provide me with documentation that palestinian militants have been purposly using human sheilds as to amount to the grotesque civilian fatalities on the palestinian side.

please check the betselem links i provided in this discussion, you should find most information i would push forward in debating you regarding confiscation of land and deprivation of human rights ect -- that is my substansiation.
have a good day,
its 2:12 am here in the middle east, a cold night and i am going to hit the sack, got a long day of studying ahead of me. i might join the debate tomorrow. i just felt inclined to try to respond to your post. g'night.

Ah sources. Fine. Here's a nice video of terrorists using a child as a shield:

YouTube - Palestinian using children as human shield

Storing weapons in or near civilian houses is also using human shields. Something which all Palestinian terrorist groups do.

Women acting as human shields aid escape of Palestinian militants

And....I'm bored. There are dozens of links if you want to google it. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
 
Listening to someone means their position is a valid one worthy of merit. I have yet to see an argument from those that support Palestinian's tactics that is either valid or worthy of merit.

No listening is just that; listening. Giving creedance is something completely different. Even if violence ends, nothing will be accomplished without dialogue. Listening is key. Jenin is not enacting violence. He is talking. I may not like what he says, but I am willing to talk with him. If his views are completely repugnant to me, I will tell him so, and that will be that. I will not know what his possible solutions are if I don't listen. Only then can I discern if they are credible or not.

I am pro-Israel; that should be obvious. I continue to hold on to the hope that most Palestinians, with the exception of the extremists are not anti-Israel, but, rather, are pro-Palestinian. There is a difference. Just like I am not anti-Palestinian, I am pro-Israel. I do not hope for the death of Palestinians, but for the life of Israelis. I just hope that my stance is not in conflict with the pro-Palestinian stance. When it is, I will not allow Israel to be harmed.
 
i just hope the world doesnt go the way you want it to go, or else we palestinians are done as a people.

"You Palestinians" have been struggling as a people and this was a choice Palestinians made. There is one absolute truth with all of this - Israel isn't going anywhere. Palestinians have to make a decision. Either stop playing the puppet to Arab and Shi'ite masters elsewhere (who aren't interested at all in a "free" Palestine and are willing to spill every drop of Palestinian blood to seek the destruction of Israel) and decide that co-existence is the only way to prosper. Any other choice will only result in more dead Palestinians. And the "House of Saud" and the bitter Iranian Mullahs aren't shedding tears for dead Palestinians.

What good does it do for you to reflect on any plan for co-existence? Do you control the pulse of your fanatics? This is an historical phenomena that is not exclusive to this situation. Palestinians and Israelis can come up with a million different plans for peace and always it will be the Islamic radical that chooses to remind all involved of why there can't be peace. And of course, waiting in the wings is the Israeli fanatic more than willing to retaliate with extreme measures at times.

There will always be Palestinians more determined to kill Israelis which will always result in a greater number of Palestinians dead in retaliation. And why is this? Because Palesitian terrorists (Oh excuse me...."martyrs" for god) choose to endanger their population with their locations. A man that decides to launch rockets from a civilian neighborhood or chooses to use his family members as shields as he headquarters under their roofs is guilty and responsible for their deaths. A human shield isn't as simple as shooting from a crowd of civilians and running for protection behind them (which I have seen in Iraq and in Somalia). A human shield is simply a chosen location that endangers the innocent. The result is a propagandous machine that produced dead Muslims, which infuriates the fanatics even more and is used as a recruitment tool for youthful Muslims not yet militarized to the movement.

Of course, while we are all pretending that there can be "peace" between Palestinians and Israelis anytime soon (if at all), we should reflect on the fact that Palestinians can't even get along with themselves as the lords of terror from Saudi and Iran support and encourage the violence, though very seperately. Now, Palestine isn't alone with internal conflict upon their own. Muslims kill and slaughter each other in Sudan, Rwanda, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bosnia, Lebanon, etc. There is a deep rooted hatred between Sunni and Shi'ites (and it extends beyond this) that go back to the succession and birth of Islam. Kurds are shunned and massacred. Palestinians are regarded as second class citizens. How is anyone in the west supposed to find even ground with an Islamic people that can't even get along with themselves?

Salim Mansur is a professor of political science at the University of Western Ontario, and a Muslim, who believes that Muslim violence against Muslims is a symptom of politics whose origins may be traced back to the earliest years of the history of Islam and Muslims. He writes that this history became a closed cycle of group solidarity and tribal politics, and its victims continue to be Muslims who accept this history as the norm. He writes...

"The internal war within the Muslim world, which is as old as Islam itself, went savagely global in the final decades of the last century. On 9/11 this internal conflict among Muslims erupted inside the United States, awakening America to the international menace of radical Islam in much the same way as Japanese militarism did 60 years earlier at Pearl Harbor. They {the willfully blind or innocently ignorant} continue to insist that the violence of Muslim terrorists, despite being despicable, must yet be explained by reference to some "root causes" linked with the history of Western colonial imperialism."

Beyond the rediculous needs for people to maintain a sense of political correctness and blindness, the Middle East has an Islamic problem. If we waved the magic wand (which so many think exists) and made the west and Israel disappear, would the Islamic world find rest? No. I'm afraid that as long as Middle Eastern Islam remains fixed in concrete and continues to marry its centuries old traditions to the 21st century, "peace" between Palestinians and Israelis is largely a fantasy.
 
"You Palestinians" have been struggling as a people and this was a choice Palestinians made. There is one absolute truth with all of this - Israel isn't going anywhere.
There is no such thing like an absolute truth.

Now, Palestine isn't alone with internal conflict upon their own. Muslims kill and slaughter each other in Sudan, Rwanda, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bosnia, Lebanon, etc.
Lets take a look at Rwanda.

Roman Catholic 56.5%, Protestant 26%, Adventist 11.1%, Muslim (4.6% Pre-Genocide, 14% Post-Genocide), original beliefs 0.1%, none 1.7% (2001)

Due to the widespread involvement of both Roman Catholic and Protestant clergy in the genocide and the shelter and protection given to members of both ethnic groups of all religions by Muslims, widespread conversion occurred causing the Muslim population to jump from 4% to 14%.[10]

Rwanda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Shhh...Gunny doesn't think Christians participate in such attrocities. Their religion doesn't allow them to. :lol:

And this is what I think? This has never been a statement by me. Perhaps you are thinking of someone else.

Christianity has proven in history that it has the capacity to immerse itself in violence. Today, we have seen the individual who has decided that bombing a clinic and killing innocents will satisfy his vengeful god. He has taken the teachings of Jesus Christ (the originator of Christianity) and thrown them away for favor of that which will enable him his violent outcry. And what part of Muhammed's teachings are thrown out by Islamic terrorists and their conquesting ancestors? Not much. The problem with Islam is that it's originator personified violence & peace and if they are going to use religion to satisfy their needs to serve their god, then they are following the teachings of their prophet.
 
I favor a two-state solution. But the Palestinians don't get to pick where their state is. The losers don't make the rules.

Really?

Then how in the world did Israel get reformed?
 
Shhh...Gunny doesn't think Christians participate in such attrocities. Their religion doesn't allow them to. :lol:
They look so nice and innocent when singing :mrgreen:
 
A simple pointing out of Rwanda as a mistake would have been enough. I knew better. When getting on a role regarding African turmoil, it is pretty easy to glaze over the few exceptions that do not place Islam in the middle.
Yes, it would have been better to simply point it out.
 
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