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Unreported Israeli Terror

Jenin said:
Jacob,

I will be taking you on seriously within a couple weeks...I have decided to free a couple days just to take you on in this forum...prepare for a very heated discussion... I need to concentrate on my exams these days.
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Good luck in your exams. Don't worry. When you come back you will have to face with a mass thread that I'm preparing about the lies you told in here.
 
Jenin said:
Also Cherokee,
I never said they are peaceful. Understand that people under occupation never peacefully allow themselves to be subjegated to racist supremacist rule.You can call my arguments bs and hide in your corner in the dark and support more war and more oppression but a couple facts remain to undermine all supremacist military invasions and occupations.
The popular resistance of an oppressed people that is...
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I Hide from NO ONE! Especially from the likes of the Islamic terrorists or even you for that matter.
Why don’t you tell me how do you justify the 1983 bombings?
The only thing I support is the extermination of the Hamas and Hezbollah and any who support them. Lets see just how popular the Hamas become in the coming civil war.


Jenin said:
The Iraq resistance is defeating the american troops
The palestinian resistance is not staying quiet as Israel expands it's settlements and beseiges and occupies the people
The lebanese resistance defeated Israel in the last war
You can believe the world is black and white and burry yourself in a fog of war and prejudice people because they don’t want to accept the force and order you want to impose on them.
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In your dreams pal…The “Iraq resistance” is too busy killing each other moron.
But that’s what Islam is all about isn’t it?.
what you have now is a “holy war” between the sunni and shia.

I don’t want to impose anything thing on them just like the Hamas and hezbollah shouldn’t impose their religious bullshit on the people in Palestine and Lebanon.

Hey look more of the Iraqi resistance.
Al Jazeera English - Middle East

Scores killed in Baghdad University.

Up to 60 people have been killed in the fourth bomb attack in Baghdad in the space of one day, following earlier attacks on police and near a Sunni mosque in the Iraqi capital.

Students and staff were leaving Mustansiriya University when a booby-trapped car and a suicide bomber exploded outside.

More than 100 people were injured.


"The majority of those killed are female students who were on their way home," an official at the university's media office told Reuters news agency.

At least 45 people died in a series of other attacks around the capital earlier on Tuesday. A police source said that the car bomb exploded near the main gate of the university in an area where students wait for minibuses and cars to pick them up to go home. The suicide bomber then blew himself up near a second gate as people fled.

Hoda Abdel Hamid, Al Jazeera's Iraq correspondent, said: "The university is in a neighbourhood that used to be a mixed neighbourhood, but now it is a Shia neighbourhood ... and some people have said that the university is controlled the al-Mahdi army."

…Snip….

The day's earlier attacks included a blast from a motorcycle rigged with explosives that left 15 dead and 70 people wounded near a Sunni mosque in central Baghdad, an interior ministry source said.

A roadside bomb targeting a police patrol killed two policemen and two civilians and wounded 10, including three policemen, in Karrada in central Baghdad.

Six people died and 11 were wounded by a bomb inside a car in Sadr City, a Shia district in eastern Baghdad, an interior ministry source said.

And a sniper killed a guard of al-Sabah, a state run newspaper, in northern Baghdad, police said.
 
Jenin said:
The only scum I see here is your racism, Jacob...

AND to prove here who the LIAR IS:
Israel claims its war on Lebanon was triggered by Hizbollah’s capture of two Israeli soldiers, and says it holds only two Lebanese prisoners.

Yet a secret list compiled by the Lebanese authorities, and leaked to the Lebanese newspaper al-Safir, has revealed the names of 67 men known to have been kidnapped by Israel and its allies during 18 years of occupation. Thousands of others are missing..... (continued in the link)

Hidden story of Lebanese prisoners held in Israeli jails|19Aug06|Socialist Worker

I also urge everyone to google the 18 year occupation of lebanon by Israeli forces, the continued occupation of the Shebba Farms, the continued violation of Lebanese security waters land and airspace

also google
the arming and transport of Israeli terrorist allies the Phalange militia responsible for the massacre of women and children in sabra and shatilla...a massacre that went on for two days under the gleaming watchful eye of the butcher ariel sharon...

feels good to point out the liar racist :-)
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Moderator's Warning:


This is trolling. And propaganda does not encourage intelligent discussion.






Jenin said:
Face of Jacob,

Keep your blind views to your self.
Also, get a life man... Go out and eat some falafels, have some hummos, drink some sweet tea....enjoy the beach... do you have a job, a life, do you go to school?
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Moderator's Warning:



And this is not necessary. Remain civil.
 
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Gysgt,

First of all, this is not propaganda. I posted credible links not associated with rhetorical religeous propagandists like my debate opposites do. I know I fight an uphill battle because I have to propose a 'clean' and clear case in opposition to insulting, mistruths and real propaganda justified as fact because it is played on people's emotions and sentiments in this post 911 world.

Secondly,
I find it to be an abuse of your 'moderator' position to leave out any warning to FaceofJacob and his true propaganda and trolling/flaming remarks...

you warned me for slurring his racism while you failed to mention the fact that he called half of arabs and muslim scum in the post preceeding my reply about his racism.
that is 750 million people categoried as being scum....

Finally,
In my opinion you make no distinct motion to think independently -- all your positions are pentagon propaganda. I respectfully ask you to revise your own rhetoric before you warn me for pointing out scummy racism.

thank you
 
Jenin said:
Gysgt,

First of all, this is not propaganda. I posted credible links not associated with rhetorical religeous propagandists like my debate opposites do. I know I fight an uphill battle because I have to propose a 'clean' and clear case in opposition to insulting, mistruths and real propaganda justified as fact because it is played on people's emotions and sentiments in this post 911 world.

Secondly,
I find it to be an abuse of your 'moderator' position to leave out any warning to FaceofJacob and his true propaganda and trolling/flaming remarks...

you warned me for slurring his racism while you failed to mention the fact that he called half of arabs and muslim scum in the post preceeding my reply about his racism.
that is 750 million people categoried as being scum....

Finally,
In my opinion you make no distinct motion to think independently -- all your positions are pentagon propaganda. I respectfully ask you to revise your own rhetoric before you warn me for pointing out scummy racism.

thank you
Click to expand...

Really?....
What’s so credible about the socialist worker website?

Do you believe this story as well?
Somalia and Ethiopia: new front in ‘long war’|20Jan07|Socialist Worker
Last week’s US attack on Somalia is the latest stage of imperialist intervention in the Horn of Africa, write Ken Olende and Charlie Kimber.


Oh and by the way...More news today on the Iraqi resistance...

Al Jazeera English - Middle East
Deadly blasts rock Baghdad

At least 17 people have been killed and nearly 50 wounded in a series of car bombings in Baghdad.

In a market in the southern district of Dora, three bombs in quick succession killed at least 10 people and wounded 30 on Thursday, Reuters reported.

Three more died in a car bomb in the east of the city.

Earlier, four people were killed and 11 wounded when a car bomb hit a police patrol near a cinema on Baghdad's central Sadun Street. Two of the dead were policemen.

A fifth car bomb exploded in eastern Baghdad, killing three people and wounding seven.

The increase in attacks comes in advance of a US-backed security crackdown
 
Cherokee,

I agree with your views about the horrendous sectarian violenece in Iraq. Those locked in this ridiculous and bloody battle are not the ones I referred to as the resistance.

My point, in a little elaboration, was that the US military is losing ground to the resistance (those groups primarily concerned with fighting the occupation), which is just as much a driving force to the occupation's eventual defeat as the sectarian violence.

There are cities and provinces in Iraq that are under the influence of the resistance and therefore not under much influence by the Iraqi government or their occupation allies.

We americans are losing this war. Thousands killed, Tens of thousands amputated, billions of better spent dollars going to waste. We could have spent all this effort/time and those billions on improving our education system, creating a balanced media, aiding the minorities and/or first natives to this land, stabalizing and securing afghanistan and aiding the pakistani government in its search for binladen (some say some of our leaders dont want us to find him..), providing aid to reconstruct lebanon's damaged infrustructure, paying out UN debt, investing in our crumbling infrastructure, investing in alternative forms of energy, investigating corporate/goverment corruption, bridging the gap between the muslim and western world through dialogue, creating a palestinian state and therfore making peace in the middle east, ect. That was my point.
 
Jenin said:
My point, in a little elaboration, was that the US military is losing ground to the resistance (those groups primarily concerned with fighting the occupation), which is just as much a driving force to the occupation's eventual defeat as the sectarian violence.
Click to expand...

We are losing ground to clearly ignorant Muslims and Arabs that think a “Western suit wearing” person is in proper military uniform. The very support for terrorism, which you call “resistance,” is where the moral failing lies among IGNORANT Muslims and Arabs. The use of civilian disguise to facilitate warfare, your kind of legal “resistance,” puts all civilians to the question of their status as belligerents and can only result in the kind of violence we see against civilians in Iraq.

You cannot distinguish between a terrorist, a criminal, and the lawful police and military (there is no Civil War Blue and Gray here) using your definition of terrorism:

“The most obvious and undisputed defenition of Terrorism is: the act violence intended to terrorize its victim.” (Jenin, http://www.debatepolitics.com/99733-post78.html)

“My comrades, terror is terror is crime is violence is conventional is nonconventional is state terror is group terror is individual terror. terror is terror.” (Jenin, ibid)

“If we are to continue to ignore terrorism committed by the 'western suit wearing civilizations' and stereo type it to be a word unanimous with muslims and Arabs…” (Jenin, ibid)

Jenin, how do I know you are not a terrorist? Can I tell by your “Western suit?”

The IGNORANT Muslims and Arabs that support the Palestinian/Hamas Terrorist State are the reasons why there is no peace in the Middle East:

"In his sermon Friday in Kufa, near the holy city of Najaf, Sadr also told followers to fight 'the occupiers.' He urged them to 'strike them where you meet them,' and said he hoped the leaders of Hezbollah and Hamas would accept him as 'their striking arm in Iraq,' The Washington Post and Newsday reported yesterday." (Iraqi cleric hints at violence against US By Anne Barnard, Globe Staff | April 4, 2004)

“March 5, 2003: Bus bombing in Haifa. U.S. citizens killed: Abigail Leitel, 14, who was born in Lebanon, New Hampshire.” American Victims of Mideast Terrorist Attacks

“The suicide bomber was 20 years old, a student of the Hebron Polytechnic University (from which a large number of suicide bombers have emerged) and a member of the Hamas terrorist organization.” PROUD OF MY SON: Mahmoud Hamdan Kwasma, the Haifa bomber (Allah predicted 9/11 1400 years ago)

March 13, 2003: “(CBS) Saddam Hussein has distributed $260,000 to 26 families of Palestinians killed in 29 months of fighting with Israel, including a $10,000 check to the family of a Hamas suicide bomber.

Jenin the support for such civilian clothed Hamas “resistance” by clearly IGNORANT Muslims and Arabs is the reason innocent civilians in Iraq are dying in such great numbers. That is the reason you have no peace in the Middle East, just as this Golden Rule is an afterthought to Muslims that only read their Koran:

“Do unto all men as you would wish to have done unto you; and reject for others what you would reject for yourself." :cool:
 
Jenin said:
Finally,
In my opinion you make no distinct motion to think independently -- all your positions are pentagon propaganda. I respectfully ask you to revise your own rhetoric before you warn me for pointing out scummy racism.
Click to expand...

It's not my problem you don't like truth. I have no idea what "Pentagon propaganda" you are referring to. And I find it comical that a supporter of Palestinian propaganda and behavior, of who's movement is encouraged by Arabs elsewhere who could care less about a "free" Palestine, is accusing others of being absent of "independent" thought.
 
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Comedy,

I feel i made my points clear regarding the defenition of terrorism. The 'western suit wearing' term was used to contrast the typical image the average american has of a terrorist and that is someone, hmm, let me say 'turban wearing, beard growing' arab. These are all stereotypes, and that was my implied sarcasm/commentary.

I am still studying for exams, but as I promised FaceofJacob, I intend on collecting my thoughts and comments and also contradicting many misconceptions and notions presented here regarding muslims, arabs, palestinians, and the occupied territories with sourced factual documentation.

So give me a week's time to clear up my schedule and invest some time in my coming open letter to the 'anti-terror' league we have here. (hope you catch my soft sarcasm).

later
 
Jenin said:
So give me a week's time to clear up my schedule and invest some time in my coming open letter to the 'anti-terror' league we have here. (hope you catch my soft sarcasm).
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I'll go out on a short limb here and surmise that 'anti-terror league' is a euphemism for anti-Palestinian. Disagreeing with the historical policies and actions of the Palestinian government(s) does not necessarily make someone anti-Palestinian. Many people here at DP strongly disagree with the tactics of Fatah, Hamas, al-Aqsa et. al. and this is a perfectly legitimate position. Embrasure of such a position does not at all equate to a blanket anti-Palestinian sentiment.
 
I respect that Tashah, and thank you for pointing that out. But you know there are a few ardent zionist expansionists and ardent muslim haters here that deny any sentiment and/or deny any palestinian legitimacy to their occupied land -- those are the people I most particularly get charged to counter. It is this burning feeling inside, that I get and it is the reason I have become so addicted to this forum recently.

I asked shaya and I would also like to pose that question to you regarding a settlement in my other thread. please check it out. I am interested in knowing your opinion on the 'final status' agreement and how you see it could be achieved and it's parameters.

edit*: also, note that because I disagree with the policies of the occupation and the governments of the continued confiscation and settlement expansion ect ect, i am not against the right of jews to live in the region or un-sympathetic to their rights.. the same goes for the american occupation of iraq and the government, the egyptian government and many other arab governments... nothing against the people.. just the puppet tyrants supported by the racist neocon administration and the israeli war criminal leader (sharon, leiberman ect)
 
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Jenin said:
I respect that Tashah, and thank you for pointing that out. But you know there are a few ardent zionist expansionists and ardent muslim haters here that deny any sentiment and/or deny any palestinian legitimacy to their occupied land -- those are the people I most particularly get charged to counter. It is this burning feeling inside, that I get and it is the reason I have become so addicted to this forum recently.
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Most people here - even most Israelis - agree that Palestinians have some legitimate grievances. But this earnest sentiment can go nowhere as long as the government of Palestine - Hamas - continues to seek the destruction of Israel and supports terrorism to achieve that objective.
 
Ok Tashah, well said.

I disagree with you on one thing.
Israeli terror is just as much a menace to peace as is hamas terror. People die day in and day out from Israeli war machines. People die from home made Qassam rockets. I see no difference. Only difference I see is that more people die from the occuppying terrorists than those who die from Hamas terrorists.

I think it is like 4 to 1 ratio palestinian dead vs Israeli dead. Both are terror.
 
Jenin said:
Only difference I see is that more people die from the occuppying terrorists than those who die from Hamas terrorists. I think it is like 4 to 1 ratio palestinian dead vs Israeli dead.
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More Palestinian civilians are casualties because of Palestinian tactics. You attack and wage war without uniforms that distinguish military from civilian. You fire rockets from populated areas, and use civilians as defensive shields. Palestinian radio broadcasts appeals for civilian women to flood an area of hostilities. Facilities such as mosques, hospitals, ambulances, and civilian housing quarters are enlisted for military/terrorist purposes. All of the above tactics are classified as War Crimes by the Geneva Conventions. And you have the gall to express anger and indignity that Palestinian casualties are higher?
 
Jenin said:
Ok Tashah, well said.

I disagree with you on one thing.
Israeli terror is just as much a menace to peace as is hamas terror. People die day in and day out from Israeli war machines. People die from home made Qassam rockets. I see no difference. Only difference I see is that more people die from the occuppying terrorists than those who die from Hamas terrorists.

I think it is like 4 to 1 ratio palestinian dead vs Israeli dead. Both are terror.
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What you call "terror" most people call "retaliation". If the Palestinians would stop attacking Israel, Israel would have no reason to take retalitory action.

Hamas is unwilling to live peacefully and so they constantly bring retaliation on themselves. Israel will not tolerate the killing of its people. As long as Hamas continues its attacks, it will be delt with in a similar fashion.
 
You cant distinguish between civilian and military because this is a popular revolution by the people against the occupation. They get shelled for a couple hours like in beit hanoun, 18 people are slaughtered, israel shows regret and it all happens again. Hamas terrorists go bomb some place (although they have refrained from suicide bombings for for 20 months now) and they do it in retaliation for israeli terrorist settlers that kill some palestinians for for some israeli terrorist f-16 bombing or ship shelling or helicopter missile. What will end this is a sincere Israeli withdrawal from occupied land. It has been too long. Let both sides breathe and live. END THE OCCUPATION.
 
Jenin said:
You cant distinguish between civilian and military because this is a popular revolution by the people against the occupation. They get shelled for a couple hours like in beit hanoun, 18 people are slaughtered, israel shows regret and it all happens again. Hamas terrorists go bomb some place (although they have refrained from suicide bombings for for 20 months now) and they do it in retaliation for israeli terrorist settlers that kill some palestinians for for some israeli terrorist f-16 bombing or ship shelling or helicopter missile. What will end this is a sincere Israeli withdrawal from occupied land. It has been too long. Let both sides breathe and live. END THE OCCUPATION.
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You can ALWAYS distinguish between civilian and military. Even in a popular revolution, there are people fighting (that would be the military) and those not (that would be civilians). When the people fighting (again, military) hide behind those not (civilians), the other side can hardly be blamed for the resulting civilian deaths.

And I see no need for Israel to withdraw from land they won fair and square. If you can't play with the big dogs, stay out of the kitchen. This isn't pre-school; a teacher isn't going to make the kids behave. When Israel is attacked first and wins land through war there is absolutely nothing that says that have to or should give it back. Any land they grant from what they conquered is out of the kindness of their hearts. From what I see, the Palestinians have done little to deserve it.
 
israel is to blame because it neither gives the palestinians equal rights not will it give them their own state. it is apertied.
To say that killing multipes of civilians to get to a militant is right is as abhorable as saying we had to nuke the japs to end the war.
The only way this will be solved is if the palestinians are made citizens
or they are given their land back
of course there is those who advocate the ethnic cleansing of the palestinians.
im sure you understand their pov better than you get mine.
 
Jenin said:
israel is to blame because it neither gives the palestinians equal rights not will it give them their own state. it is apertied.
To say that killing multipes of civilians to get to a militant is right is as abhorable as saying we had to nuke the japs to end the war.
The only way this will be solved is if the palestinians are made citizens
or they are given their land back
of course there is those who advocate the ethnic cleansing of the palestinians.
im sure you understand their pov better than you get mine.
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It's strange that you managed not to address my points in your posts. I can only guess that missed them. Let me highlight them for you:

- If Military A hides behinds civilians from Military B, it is Military A's fault if civilians are killed, not Military B.

- If you lose your land through conquest, you have absolutely no right to demand it back. In fact, it's a rather laughable concept.
 
Ok, so the palestinians lost the land but they are still there. so what do you think, since israel should keep the land, should happen to the palestinians.

should they be all killed
or maybe all expelled
or maybe put in ghettos surrounded by barriers and armed settlers and kept under occupation for eternity?
what should happen?

B'Tselem - The Seperation Barrier
 
Jenin said:
Ok, so the palestinians lost the land but they are still there. so what do you think, since israel should keep the land, should happen to the palestinians.

should they be all killed
or maybe all expelled
or maybe put in ghettos surrounded by barriers and armed settlers and kept under occupation for eternity?
what should happen?

B'Tselem - The Seperation Barrier
Click to expand...

I favor a two-state solution. But the Palestinians don't get to pick where their state is. The losers don't make the rules.

You still missed this one:

- If Military A hides behinds civilians from Military B, it is Military A's fault if civilians are killed, not Military B.
Click to expand...
 
Jenin said:
israel is to blame because it neither gives the palestinians equal rights not will it give them their own state. it is apertied.
To say that killing multipes of civilians to get to a militant is right is as abhorable as saying we had to nuke the japs to end the war.
The only way this will be solved is if the palestinians are made citizens
or they are given their land back
of course there is those who advocate the ethnic cleansing of the palestinians.
im sure you understand their pov better than you get mine.
Click to expand...

I can play this game, too.

Palestinians are to blame because they have refused to live in peace with Israel. When the Partitiion Plan was put into effect in 1948, they did not attempt to govern themselves, instead choosing to complain and call for Israel's destruction. Killing civilians to get to militants could be avioded if the militants would either not use civilians as shields or stop their aggression. Nuking Japan could have been avioded, especially the second time, if Japan had stopped their aggression. I am not, nor have I ever advocating ethnic cleansing of Palenstinians.
 
well if they do not get their occupied land back then they will continue to fight. it is their right to resist occupation.

as for blaming the palestinians for getting killed by israel

i refer you the site link i posted. bowse through it, check it out.
 
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