Maximus Zeebra said:
"socialist European movement"
You have no idea how far I can go with this. Your replies would be nothing more than "nu-uhs."
Johnny_Utah said:
Maximus Zeebra said:
Second that. But try to keep it short and consise and stay on topic please.
The European Union is liberal, the US is concervative. Thats the MAJOR difference.
Very well. I don't know about short though. There's a lot to state. Ever read my posts?
The history of the continent of Europe has stricken Europeans with the fear of too much freedom, of disorder, of rampage. This is why the welfare of the group trumps the needs of the individual. Protests against governments are far more likely to be about group interests than personal freedoms. The closest the U.S. ever came to the restricted European vision of freedom was during the peculiar regimentation of the Depression years and WWII, when the President spoke of freedom from want and from fear. Europeans accept limits on personal achievment in the interests of personal security and the general welfare. Americans believe instinctively that the general welfare is best served by fostering personal achievement. Europe imposes limits on the individual for the common good. We believe that the common good is best served by individual opportunity. Americans (those of us that aren't jaded by traditional acceptance) look at European lives and see their limits. Europeans regard our freedom to succeed as little more that the freedom to fail. Despite the chronic gloom of our domestic intelligentsia, we are the world's optimists. Europeans are pessimists. And even if their pessimism occasionally proves well-founded, it's still
the optimists who change the world.
Americans are in love with freedom and will fight for it (proven for two centuries). Europeans cherish security, and those who threaten that security may find, to their dismay, that Europeans remain capable of extravangant barbarities when sufficiently provoked. The growing Islamic populations from which religiouos terrorist spring may find a wounded and vengeful future Europe prone to abrupt attrocities. Europe has no track record of behaving humanely under stress. And as we saw in the diplomatic row over Iraq, the leading countries of the old European heartlands care nothing for the freedom or well-being of non European populations. Freedom in Europe has never meant freedom for others. As I've stated before, no German soldier ever liberated anyone. French soldiers keep colonialism alive in western Africa. Dutch soldiers enjoyed the show as Serb militiamen massacred Muslims. And even in the backwater struggles of the Balkans only the U.S. could gaurantee the minimal freedoms of daily life.
While you may have this great vision of Utopia, created by Liberal EU fantasy, Europe has proven to not have the strength or will to struggle for it. Didn't communism boast the idea of a god not being as important as the promise of a utopia? Of course, the Stalins and the Maos were happy to stand in for vanquished dieties. The promise of Atlantis was hatched by a German and it excused the sacrifice or outright murder of hundreds of millions of human beings. But the cult of German National Socialism was deficient in it's thirst for sacrificial blood as compared to the dark genius of communism. The Nazis could only find enemies outside of the "pure" race. The genius killing machine of Communism (like tha of Islamic fundamentalism) was its ability to find enemies anywhere and everywhere and within. And today we see western Europe traveling the same path. The
great EU strives to unite the tribes and strip them of identity to create the perfect society. But as history has taught us, the notion of human perfectibility is lethal. Europe embraced it, as did many of Europe's colonial-era victims later on. There is no power in accepting white European countries into the fold who are willing but denying non-white European countries who are asking. There is no valor in boasting on a future that tyrants have no interest in accepting. How can the EU be anything more than the fragile thing it is today when it doesn't even care about its suffering neighbors?
You ask how many people have America helped through wars or other wise? Though we could go back further, why don't we just focus on the 20th century? How about we start with your ancestors? What is the population of all of Europe? (Of course, we would have to count them twice wouldn't we?) And certainly our parked military in western Germany allowed the rest of Europe to lick it's self inflicted wounds as we faced down the Soviet Union. How about in Asia? South Korea remains seperate from the brutalities of the North. Japan remains under our protection. Taiwan is not a part of China. How about Africa? How about Muslims in Bosnia? (....this would put us back in Europe, by the way). Do we have to go into the tens of millions of Muslims who no longer have to fear Saddam Hussein and his sons? But, we've heard about this. The unfortunate victims of this effort through our botching of a good deed satisfy the depravity of those who didn't care enough to do anything, yet find great strength in criticizing. And what about Africa? Beside the French troops, who have made quite a name for themselves in western Africa for killing unarmed blacks, only American troops stand in Chad and in Djibouti with an intent to train and defend Muslims from the Sudanese turmoil. When was the last time Europe aided Somalia? Was it when the international forces quickly sped home once the UN mandate no longer held them? When the Bush administration announced that it would commit fifteen billion dollars to the fight against AIDS in poor countries, the reaction was to pick at the details of the gift, which is a contribution that remains unmatched by the European Union or any other entity (as far as I know). Why don't we shift over to the Caribbean? Countless Haitians, Cubans, Dominican Republicans, Puerto Ricans, etc. have been the benefit of American action when unrest threatened them through aggression or nature. And Canada? Does it not enjoy a great medicare system at the expense of a defense thanks to our existence? You see, we take care of our back yard and don't rely upon Europeans to cross the ocean. And what about all those natural disasters all over the world? The American military presence and checkbook is always on the scene before the EU grudgingly shows up with the bare minimum or exhonerating "check is in the mail." But, for a better picture of how many lives America keeps secure, one only has to look at our embassy presence. In these countries, freedom from tyranny thrives.
Perhaps the more accurate question here is to ask what European inactivity has accomplished in the world? What has the
great EU done for humanity? Aside from wrecking the third world and then graciously leaving it behind for someone else to deal with, what hope do the suffering have with regards to what Europe offers? Tyrants, religious zealots, and human monsters have no interest in the comfy rosy world the EU is pretending to power. It's actually Europe's long history, with regards to their leadership, that dictators are counting on for survival and the EU will not dissapoint. Even today, Ahmenadejad reaches out to German society. You see, by finally addressing a mistake of the past and dealing with a festering dictator who took advantage of the corruptness of the UN and continued to snub the world when asked to behave, America has chosen the future. Those that sat out and only have enough strength to criticize our mistakes behind borders that we secured for them, have chosen the past.
Europe is programmed for failure. The only one's that can't really see it are Europeans. But, it seems that they never see it. Thus two world wars and a third not conjured due to American presence. But we are leaving Germany and "native" Europeans will have nothing but their bigotries towards a booming population of Islamists who are no more interested in assimilating to their host nations as the host nations are of having them. And of course, the intoleration of religion is going to over just grand with Islam won't it?
The "Socialist European movement" is a farce. It's the latest attempt of European unification on the blood stained continent. First there was the Church that promised peace and resulted in blood shed. Then as Europe fooled themselves into a pacifist mind set, WWI erupted to shatter such dreams. Then there was the period where Europe fooled themselves into another pacifist mind set before WWII destroyed their visions by attempting to unify Europe again under a Swastika. Today, Europeans sit, yet again, with hopeful dreams and pacifist conviction. History repeats itself. Centuries ago, it was the Protestants or Catholics that fell victim to Europe's need to unite. In the 20th century it was the Jews thet was sacrificed. Tomorrow, maybe Americans will cross the ocean again, but this time it will be to save Muslims.
