Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if not why not?

Maximus Zeebra · Dec 28, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

MrMichiganDem said:
In my opinion the United States arm forces power has always been Bullies. Sure this is where I was born 59 years ago, but our government (especially) now is trying to be the world police, and the reason why I said that is wherever the bullshit is..we go running to interfere. What about solving our own issues we are having here in America? Such as Racism,Discrimination, people being Homeless,a lack of Education, and finally the economic situations. I may have to close this name out (because the election is over), but I will return as the true me, and I have asked for help from these so-called forum overseers but no help. Now back to the subject. United States is the ONLY country that I know of who is into conflicts with many other countries. Why is that? Is it because we want to control everything? Again, We can't control ourselves, and since we can't control ourselves..how can we control someone else?

I agree with you.. The US need to look within and take care of their social problems, such as religious fanatics(evangelist, especially the extreme ones), violence(especially gun policies), recism(which is worse than any other western country), poverty(especially the childpoverty, the homeless, the cripples of war and the lower class citizens)..
Education to me seems ok in the US, but maybe you can tell me something about that that I dont know? Are children left behind?

The US has a history of violence, and now that they have so much violence at home that they can not deal with they have to bring it around the world as well?

Maximus Zeebra · Dec 28, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

liberateamerica said:
The US is a country, not "them" or "their". It is an it; use proper English for heaven's sake! Yes, the US does have humanitarian efforts and once again, I must remind you the US economy has remained steady since 1945. Can you say the same about Europe? Your reasoning is clearly flawed when discussing the GDPs. The EU and US will not grow at the exact same rates that they are at right now for the next 20 yrs. By the way:

CIA World Factbook
EU - GDP (purchasing power parity): $12.18T
GDP Real Growth Rate: 1.7%

US - GDP (purchasing power parity): $12.31T
GDP Real Growth Rate: 3.2%
Let's take a look at the US vs. the EU. The EU actually has a slightly smaller GDP than the US, by about $0.13T. However, even if you'd like to follow the official exchange rate, then noticing the real growth rate, you can see the US is likely to "overtake" the EU soon anyway, as 3.2% - a fair growth rate - is indicative of a far healthier economy than a 1.7% growth rate is. Who needs economists' dire predictions, anyway?
China - GDP (PPP): $8.88T
GDP Real Growth Rate: 10.2% according to official data
***China cannot possibly sustain this high of a real growth rate for long. Take Japan and South Korea, for instance, or, for that matter, any of the Asian Tigers. Their economies exploded and then leveled off gradually. I predict China will do the same. Beijing may be giving false data to give the impressions things are better than they actually are, and if foreign investors stop investing their capital (which composes ~60% of the Chinese economy) for some reason or other markets open that look even more promising, then China's economy will take a fall. I did a research paper on this, I would know.

Ohh..

Excuse me for not being English..:doh

Yeah, different sources have different numbers, but the out of the 3 most reliable two of them the EU have a good margin..
The problem with the growth in the Euro area is this.. They introduced a new currency, and it takes more than 6 years to get used to.. Surprisingly quick, the Eurozone countries have had a comback, and the numbers are ONLY getting more positive.
Last quarter, this year, the EU started outgrowin the US, if the trend continues..... The growth is mostly driven by the eastern European boom, but the western European countries also have decent growth.

As for China, who knows what will happen, eyh? It looks pretty bright for them now, but if they reach HALF the GDP per capita of the US, or say 15-20.000 USD GDP per capita, their economy will be 2-3 times as big. It will actually be about the same size as the US and the EU combined.

WHICH is why WE need to cooperate, and not fight, which again is why we need not take solo action and do foreign stunt policies, we should both focus inside our own domains and not piss of the other part.. OK?

Maximus Zeebra · Dec 28, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

liberateamerica said:
Agreed, but keep in mind that a) the U.S. has ~3M soldiers, b) at least 2B people are children, c) not everyone's going to attack the U.S., and d) there aren't 20 million countries, so there can't be 20 million armed forces.

Oh, and e) When have there ever been protests that morph into civil war in the U.S.? Even the Vietnam War protests were contained relatively well and didn't cause any major riots or revolts. Most Americans criticize with voice, not with weapons. Don't comment when you have no idea what you're talking about.

:lol:

a) Hmm, last time I looked the armed forces of the US was 1.5 million, every quota in different factbooks says that..

1.2 million in the army(and national guard) according to this..
Online NewsHour: The Size of the U.S. Army -- January 13, 2004

I cannot imagine the navy and airforce together have more than that..

b) never goinf to happen anyways, just hypotetical to show that the US military power is pretty much irrelevant in the world unless they wanna break the world and kill everyone with nuclear weapons, something I am sure they would rather prevent than do..

c) Of course not, no one is going to attack the US, nor should the US attack anyone.. the failure in Iraqw proved that, and the waste of money could better have been spent at home.

d) 20 million armed forces personel :doh

Maximus Zeebra · Dec 28, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

jfuh said:
GB and denmark both have an indefinete opt out option for the euro, sweeden also is in no hurry or pressure to do so; also let's not forget that both the danish and the british are not goverened by EU trade guidlines as Germany and France are. Yet there the inequality exists for the eastern european nations as if they wish to join the EU they must accept all the requirements or they are unable to join. Again we go back to square 1.

Actually Denmark AND the UK are governmed by EU trade guidelines and laws. EC?

jfuh said:
Iraq is now under US occupation, does growth and resources in Iraq then contribute to US growth and resources? as I've stated continually, a divided political entity can not co-exist together to over power a united super nation like china or the US. In the end jobs and resources are going to be dictated by the invisible hand pushing towards open market and true unhindered or protected markets - ie US and British markets.

Ahh, there you get it, exactly, that is the EU incentive and way of doing things, they make countries open their markets and force them to let go of protectionism, again the reason of the great EU success..

You dont seriously believe only the US and the UK have open markets? Hah, what a ridiculous view.

jfuh said:
what happens when those nations are industrialized and with saturated job markets? no more growth? you can not count the growth of developing nations into the macro economy. I access it as the only growth in Europe.

Industrialisation is only the first step in getting a good solid economy.. Kind of like the teenage years of a human.. You cannot go around it.. Then you get open markets, services and so fourth to complete the free open market economy..

jfuh said:
Thus a huge trade deficit resulting in no other countries purchasing european goods and european capital flowing out to 3rd world countries that manufacture these goods.
Europeans and americans can not rely on trade deficits to gain capital - it only results in a loss of capital not gain and a concentration of the capital into a select few while the population as a whole shows smaller savings - a very big problem. Because then the question becomes, how do yo then suffice for the capital of those who lost their wages to developing countires? social welfare? not viable.
not that difficult, that is if the US economy is stagnant, which it is far from. and again, the EU is alreay unequal, western europeans are paying for the development of eastern europeans - eastern europeans are raising the growth of the sub continent as a whole. There is no such thing as equal wealth - those circumstances dictate only equally poor.

Europe dont have much deficit, it must be the American deficit you are talking about.. Europe is one step behind the US in this, deficit society comes from high consumer spending society, and this is the European nations biggest problem, they dont spend enough money to create the good circle of growth.
But this time is soon to be over, the Euro is establishing in world markets, and eventually the Euro will lead to a consumer spending explotion in Europe, and not only that, the open borders and different prices will greatly contribute to this.
European have larger savings than US people, the reason for that is that one step, the EU has not yet turned into a consumer society, but they will, unfortunately a side effect of that is deficit, but the other effects far outshines that.
The Eastern European boom and growth, and low western European growth is temporary, once the eastern Europeans are at the same or close to the same level as the west, the intra trade with eastern Europe and western Europe will have multiplied a hundred times, much thanks to the fact they now have money. THus again meaning they can buy our(W.Europe) products, something they couldn afford to before, and the free and open trade of Europe will assure that intra trade will be exceptionally high and create growth by itself while Europe as a whole grows at the same rate of the US, or in some years even quicker as they import(especially) and export more goods..

jfuh said:
Unless it is a united union as the US is, in the end it will still be every nation for themselves. You can not have partial unity. The level of centralization in the EU vs that of the US or China is simply incomparable.
2010 or 2020 and both the US and Chinese economies will have far surpassed what they are today.you already give a perfect example of the every nation for themselves I've exemplified here thus far with Germany and France.
one pinnacle of a stable currency asside from a stable econmy is a competent military - which the EU as split nations does not have. Hydrogen or not, the dollar is here to stay as a reliable currency.

The pound was also there to stay in the 30s-60s, but hey, it didnt, but comfort to you, it still matters.

The EU have competent militaries, but those need to be one, and they will.. And that military and your military(the US) MUST cooperate, which means there CANNOT be solo policies like going to Iraq. The dollar is the most unreliable of the biggest four currencies..

I would rank reliability..
1. The pound
2. The euro
3. The yen
4. The dollar

As for size.. It IS.
1. the dollar
2. the euro
3. the yen
4. the pound

The Euro has eaten up a lot of the foreign reserves status of the dollar, and in few year occupied about 30%. Many countries are swtiching, many considering..

ONLY the oil has kept the US dollar as it is, it was in the 70s when the US switched from Gold to oil as nominator for the currency that the dollar rose.

jfuh said:
The dollar was irrelevent until WWI, the euro replaced european tenders which the germans sacrificed the most and the british are still unwilling to accept.

The Euro is the new currency, and will definetly some day not far from now overtake the dollar, the reason is simply because it is more trustworthy and it has more "friends".

Shame that for the dollar, its been nice for 30 or so years, but the oil age is over, SO is the dollar.

ps. it will remain important at least.

Maximus Zeebra · Dec 28, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

jfuh said:
The most beneficial and relevent international economic relationship will be of that between the US and China. Everyone else will pretty much be second to this - europe will be loud but would have to fall in line with this relationship or face irrelevancy. I did not write a paper in this, but my fiance' got a degree in it.

What makes you think that even as the European Union as a whole trades more with China?

AND is far better connected and closer...

liberateamerica · Dec 28, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

Thanks for clarifying about your views, Maximus. I think that the EU and US shouldn't ally to dominate China, but we should rather form a 3-way symbiotic relationship economically. If we handle China in the proper way, it could be very profitable for the EU, US, and for China. We can help try reforming the Chinese legal system and police operations (i.e. imprisonment w/o lawyer or charges, mass & public executions, etc.) And yes, the US does need to mind its own business and tend to domestic issues more. I am a liberal Democrat, which means I don't support the war in Iraq, I was merely stating that America could probably handle the cost more easily than the EU could, were it to fight a stupid colonial war for oil. As a matter of fact, if you go to the polls section and look at the thread I began entitled "Will America fall?", you can see that I believe the war in Iraq and other costly wars could eventually cripple the American economy and cause bankruptcy. I am not English, I am American, but all I was trying to say was use proper English. Sorry if I sounded snooty :doh, it's just I am sort of obsessive-compulsive about grammar and spelling. :lol:

Anyway, the EU and US are allies and will be allies far into the future; I am just pointing out that technically speaking, the US economy is a bit larger.

Oh, and BTW, there are about 1.5-1.8M in active duty in the US military. There are approx. 1M reserves, bringing the total to 2.5-2.8M. :wink:

jfuh · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

liberateamerica said:
Yes, you are right in this, jfuh. However, I would like to add that the US and China already have a beneficial relationship. If we form an economic and military partnership, it would be the most powerful alliance on Earth. We could help the Chinese government to be more benevolent towards its own people (i.e. stopping the executions, etc.) and we would continue to trade profitable and profoundly. In addition, we could use our joint military force to protect one another. In sum, a close to perfect symbiotic relationship.

I don't know too much about a military partnership - reason being that we are currently military adversaries. Why? Two places - Japan and Taiwan. We the US do not need anyone else to protect us other than ourselves - unless one day we face an assault from Klingons.
China will not become more liberalized through any of our active interventions. However as we continue our partnership through economic cooperations and trade we will effectively liberalize the political transaction that is already slowly change China. Right now I do not think that China as a whole is yet ready for a democracy or non-centralized planning.
Hopefully through this relationship that we as a nation can then change for the better through self reflection and positive competition.

jfuh · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

Maximus Zeebra said:
Actually Denmark AND the UK are governmed by EU trade guidelines and laws. EC?

Dissimilarly to that governing of France or Germany. For one, the pound is not locked with the Euro.

Maximus Zeebra said:
Ahh, there you get it, exactly, that is the EU incentive and way of doing things, they make countries open their markets and force them to let go of protectionism, again the reason of the great EU success..

You dont seriously believe only the US and the UK have open markets? Hah, what a ridiculous view.

It's not belief it's the facts. French markets for one, are not exactly free market systems, the enterprises are highly socialized and restricted, far more so than either US or British enterprises. Precisely one reason why they are not as competitive as either.
However seems you have not understood what I mentioned earlier. If the EU is a great success then why are the French economy stagnant? Also why then the reliance on eastern european countries growth instead of european as a whole's growth. Obviously it's not working as it should and again it's because Europe is not united under one political entity.

Maximus Zeebra said:
Industrialisation is only the first step in getting a good solid economy.. Kind of like the teenage years of a human.. You cannot go around it.. Then you get open markets, services and so fourth to complete the free open market economy.

Again you missed the point.
The growth today as you've stated as well, is from the growth of non-industrialized european countries while those that are have stagnant economies. So then what happens to european growth overall when those countries have "matured"?

Maximus Zeebra said:
Europe dont have much deficit, it must be the American deficit you are talking about.. Europe is one step behind the US in this, deficit society comes from high consumer spending society, and this is the European nations biggest problem, they dont spend enough money to create the good circle of growth.
But this time is soon to be over, the Euro is establishing in world markets, and eventually the Euro will lead to a consumer spending explotion in Europe, and not only that, the open borders and different prices will greatly contribute to this.
European have larger savings than US people, the reason for that is that one step, the EU has not yet turned into a consumer society, but they will, unfortunately a side effect of that is deficit, but the other effects far outshines that.
The Eastern European boom and growth, and low western European growth is temporary, once the eastern Europeans are at the same or close to the same level as the west, the intra trade with eastern Europe and western Europe will have multiplied a hundred times, much thanks to the fact they now have money. THus again meaning they can buy our(W.Europe) products, something they couldn afford to before, and the free and open trade of Europe will assure that intra trade will be exceptionally high and create growth by itself while Europe as a whole grows at the same rate of the US, or in some years even quicker as they import(especially) and export more goods..

I'm not talking about debt deficiet I'm talking of trade deficit to which europe has it's good share of as well with countries such as Indonesia, Japan, China and so on.
Intra trading does not result in growth that is competitive internationally, the pinnacle requirement for national growth.

Maximus Zeebra said:
The pound was also there to stay in the 30s-60s, but hey, it didnt, but comfort to you, it still matters.

The EU have competent militaries, but those need to be one, and they will.. And that military and your military(the US) MUST cooperate, which means there CANNOT be solo policies like going to Iraq. The dollar is the most unreliable of the biggest four currencies..

I would rank reliability..
1. The pound
2. The euro
3. The yen
4. The dollar

As for size.. It IS.
1. the dollar
2. the euro
3. the yen
4. the pound

The Euro has eaten up a lot of the foreign reserves status of the dollar, and in few year occupied about 30%. Many countries are swtiching, many considering..

ONLY the oil has kept the US dollar as it is, it was in the 70s when the US switched from Gold to oil as nominator for the currency that the dollar rose.

You've missed the boat all together again here.
Currently Euro militarys are independent, no nation would ever hand over its military control to any other nation unless it is a politically united nation - US and China.

Maximus Zeebra said:
The Euro is the new currency, and will definetly some day not far from now overtake the dollar, the reason is simply because it is more trustworthy and it has more "friends".

You're fallacy is in thinking that economy has friends. In economies you either lead or get out of the way and follow. There're no friends - everyone is an adversary and competitor.

Maximus Zeebra said:
Shame that for the dollar, its been nice for 30 or so years, but the oil age is over, SO is the dollar.

ps. it will remain important at least.

Again your fallacy rests that you think the US economy is going to remain dependent on oil as well as a flawed assumption that the Euro is independent of oil.
Perhaps asian markets are independent on oil as well? Is that what lead to the asian market "crash" in 98?

jfuh · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

Maximus Zeebra said:
What makes you think that even as the European Union as a whole trades more with China?

AND is far better connected and closer...

Who said I thought so? I said the euro Chinese trade is irrelevant to that of the Chinese US trade.
The world's top three markets

US
Japan
China

These 3 far surpass 4th or 5th. Not to mention the fact that the top two represent the highest in science and technological research and development in the world. China is a production powerhouse that is unmatched for years to come.
The US in particular has a diversification in it's market and industry that is unmatched currently by any country.
europe with it's political and cultural as well as ethnic severances can not hope to match this level with the US.
China might, that is if she adheres more to her own laws rather than party loyalties.

Maximus Zeebra · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

liberateamerica said:
Thanks for clarifying about your views, Maximus. I think that the EU and US shouldn't ally to dominate China, but we should rather form a 3-way symbiotic relationship economically. If we handle China in the proper way, it could be very profitable for the EU, US, and for China. We can help try reforming the Chinese legal system and police operations (i.e. imprisonment w/o lawyer or charges, mass & public executions, etc.) And yes, the US does need to mind its own business and tend to domestic issues more. I am a liberal Democrat, which means I don't support the war in Iraq, I was merely stating that America could probably handle the cost more easily than the EU could, were it to fight a stupid colonial war for oil. As a matter of fact, if you go to the polls section and look at the thread I began entitled "Will America fall?", you can see that I believe the war in Iraq and other costly wars could eventually cripple the American economy and cause bankruptcy. I am not English, I am American, but all I was trying to say was use proper English. Sorry if I sounded snooty :doh, it's just I am sort of obsessive-compulsive about grammar and spelling. :lol:

Anyway, the EU and US are allies and will be allies far into the future; I am just pointing out that technically speaking, the US economy is a bit larger.

Oh, and BTW, there are about 1.5-1.8M in active duty in the US military. There are approx. 1M reserves, bringing the total to 2.5-2.8M. :wink:

Well, I didnt really mean dominate, more "have controle of in case", I totally agree with your assesment on China that it would be very good for Europe and America, infact the whole world. They are doing more in Africa than Europe and America has ever done.

I am sure America can handle cost of war better than Europe, but we have no need for war anymore, I would classify Europe as passifist by choice and history. The US has not learn their lessons yet and continue their path of international violations and wargames for whatever reasons they have, but they are ruining their relations with other countries, and their closest allies in Europe are not happy..
This is a strain in the current relationship, but not too much for Europe to get over, but it cannot continue until Europe no longer is willing to forgive the US and relations be broken..
Europe and the US MUST remaint allies for all forseeable future.

The US on their hand as you say ARE falling, if you mean the superpower and dominating the world with influence and respect.. That is all gone now, the tide has turned, the once beloved America has turned into some kind of obsession for everyone to hate it.. And the US cannot continue the same way after this, the reason for US success is the tremendous respect and influence they had around the world, and they managed to crack that in 5 years, and unforntunately I cannot really see the populations of other countries forgiving that and returning to the way it was.

Actually the EU collected economy is a bit bigger than the US economy.. :roll:

jfuh · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

Maximus Zeebra said:
The US on their hand as you say ARE falling, if you mean the superpower and dominating the world with influence and respect.. That is all gone now, the tide has turned, the once beloved America has turned into some kind of obsession for everyone to hate it.. And the US cannot continue the same way after this, the reason for US success is the tremendous respect and influence they had around the world, and they managed to crack that in 5 years, and unforntunately I cannot really see the populations of other countries forgiving that and returning to the way it was.

How so? US cultural influence is still quite strong - music, entertainment and so on. Contrast that with Europe - practically non-existent.

Maximus Zeebra · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

jfuh said:
Dissimilarly to that governing of France or Germany. For one, the pound is not locked with the Euro.

:mrgreen:

jfuh said:
It's not belief it's the facts. French markets for one, are not exactly free market systems, the enterprises are highly socialized and restricted, far more so than either US or British enterprises. Precisely one reason why they are not as competitive as either.
However seems you have not understood what I mentioned earlier. If the EU is a great success then why are the French economy stagnant? Also why then the reliance on eastern european countries growth instead of european as a whole's growth. Obviously it's not working as it should and again it's because Europe is not united under one political entity.

The French economy is not stagnant.. Where are you getting your news and facts? 2% economic growth is not stagnating, there are plenty of economic activity and growth in France.

Isnt it obvious to you, that if the eastern European countries with the European Union grow quickly and Europe as a whole grows at the same rate as the US, then when the eastern European countries economies grow, and have expanded 100ds of %s, they will be able to trade more with other EU economies and again have a positive effect on them.. Dont only see the small picture and traditional macroeconomics, the EU is a whole new thing, a thing most people dont understand..

Besides, again to mention, that Europe is getting closer and closer and will soon be one policitcal unity..

jfuh said:
Again you missed the point.
The growth today as you've stated as well, is from the growth of non-industrialized european countries while those that are have stagnant economies. So then what happens to european growth overall when those countries have "matured"?

No European country have a stagnant economy.. You have to go look at a defintition of "stagnant" and then try to use that word in a correct context.
The worst and closest to stagnant economy in Europe is Italy, but Italy is not stagnant either, but growing VERY slow, around 1%..
The macroeconomic numbers and indications are starting to turn upwards again, they have actually turned only upwards the last years, the economies are picking up pace and will get back to good levels of growth again. Actually they are at decent levels, France was not far from the growth rates of the US the last quarter.

jfuh said:
I'm not talking about debt deficiet I'm talking of trade deficit to which europe has it's good share of as well with countries such as Indonesia, Japan, China and so on.
Intra trading does not result in growth that is competitive internationally, the pinnacle requirement for national growth.

Well, the debt problem is nothing compared to what problems the US have with that, not really anything to worry about as we have surplusses with other countries..
The US have deficits and trade deficits with every single nation, which is why the dollar keeps declining until the US can produce more goods and get their exports figure to the same level as the import figure, or the import falling to the same levels as exports..
I am very proud of Germany btw, alone Germany has more exports than the US, is that not fantastic? Only 1/4th the population and 1/10th the physical size..
I would say the economic FOUNDATION Europe has is by far more solid and sustainable than that of the US.

jfuh said:
You've missed the boat all together again here.
Currently Euro militarys are independent, no nation would ever hand over its military control to any other nation unless it is a politically united nation - US and China.

Well, the European nations are handing their armies over to each other through their cooperation.. The 60.000 EU rapid reaction force is just small first step towards a European defence.

jfuh said:
You're fallacy is in thinking that economy has friends. In economies you either lead or get out of the way and follow. There're no friends - everyone is an adversary and competitor.

In Europe we are economic frieds, we are not dominated by greed like the US, your ideas are old and all the same as the rest of the US, but your views are not shared across the globe.. Just because you think something, doesnt mean everyone thinks the same.

jfuh said:
Again your fallacy rests that you think the US economy is going to remain dependent on oil as well as a flawed assumption that the Euro is independent of oil.
Perhaps asian markets are independent on oil as well? Is that what lead to the asian market "crash" in 98?

I never said any of those things, you are twisting and turning my words into something you claim I said.

I do know one thing, the US economy is dependant on war and the military, and the 21st century is not the age of military and conflict, it will be of peace and love.. No one wants the US violent policies anymore, and that will reflect in the fall of the US, unless they try some desperate last cramp moves of going to war again.

The largest industries in the US..
1. Military
2. Prison
3. Oil

Maximus Zeebra · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

jfuh said:
Who said I thought so? I said the euro Chinese trade is irrelevant to that of the Chinese US trade.
The world's top three markets

US

Japan

China

These 3 far surpass 4th or 5th. Not to mention the fact that the top two represent the highest in science and technological research and development in the world. China is a production powerhouse that is unmatched for years to come.
The US in particular has a diversification in it's market and industry that is unmatched currently by any country.
europe with it's political and cultural as well as ethnic severances can not hope to match this level with the US.
China might, that is if she adheres more to her own laws rather than party loyalties.

Let me redicred the question..
Why do you think the US China relationships will be most important when the largest economy in the world, the European Union, trades 30% more with China than the US do?
How do you think the Euro China trade is irrelevant when its bigger than US China trade?

All the European countries combined have almost as much imports from China as the US have, BUT when looking at exports, Germany and France export more to China than the US does, the whole of Europe much more.

Dont forget that Germany exports more than the US and China, ALONE. Germany is a unmatched production powerhouse as you called it.
I agree the US is the biggest and unmatched market, but Europe is a definete second, and I would rank China third above Japan.

Maximus Zeebra · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

jfuh said:
How so? US cultural influence is still quite strong - music, entertainment and so on. Contrast that with Europe - practically non-existent.

Lol, what do you think the Roman Church is, everything except the ultra commercial is dominated by Europe around the world.. People spit at American culture, European culture is loved and adapted in most of the world.

Music and movies is not everyting you know..

All the foods you eat is European, except hamburgers.

jfuh · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

Maximus Zeebra said:
Lol, what do you think the Roman Church is, everything except the ultra commercial is dominated by Europe around the world.. People spit at American culture, European culture is loved and adapted in most of the world.

Music and movies is not everyting you know..

All the foods you eat is European, except hamburgers.

Actually I don't eat much european food as I'm ethnically Chinese - hence the food I eat is Chinese or more east asian dominated.
What about the Roman church? Rejected in the muslim world yet American culture still permeates there.
China, roman catholic is completely disallowed in, yet again american culture easily permeates throughout.

How much is French culture loved in Morocco? British culture in south Africa? Euopean culture in China? Japan? Korea? contrast that with American culture - as I said - irrelevant.

Maximus Zeebra · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

jfuh said:
Actually I don't eat much european food as I'm ethnically Chinese - hence the food I eat is Chinese or more east asian dominated.
What about the Roman church? Rejected in the muslim world yet American culture still permeates there.
China, roman catholic is completely disallowed in, yet again american culture easily permeates throughout.

How much is French culture loved in Morocco? British culture in south Africa? Euopean culture in China? Japan? Korea? contrast that with American culture - as I said - irrelevant.

The only American culture that is not European is its music, its movies and hamburgers.. So think again..:roll:

I love Chinese food by the way, best food in the world in my opinion, also very healthy.. NOTHING beats Chinese dim sum seafood.

jfuh · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

Maximus Zeebra said:
The French economy is not stagnant.. Where are you getting your news and facts? 2% economic growth is not stagnating, there are plenty of economic activity and growth in France.

Are you in a bubble? - source

Maximus Zeebra said:
Isnt it obvious to you, that if the eastern European countries with the European Union grow quickly and Europe as a whole grows at the same rate as the US, then when the eastern European countries economies grow, and have expanded 100ds of %s, they will be able to trade more with other EU economies and again have a positive effect on them.. Dont only see the small picture and traditional macroeconomics, the EU is a whole new thing, a thing most people dont understand.

It's not hard to understand at all. You seem to have this illusion that eastern european growth = european growth overall even though growth in most of western europe is near negligible.

Maximus Zeebra said:
Besides, again to mention, that Europe is getting closer and closer and will soon be one policitcal unity..

Tell me how that one works given the current divisions culturally, ethnically and most important - nationally.

Maximus Zeebra said:
No European country have a stagnant economy.. You have to go look at a defintition of "stagnant" and then try to use that word in a correct context.
The worst and closest to stagnant economy in Europe is Italy, but Italy is not stagnant either, but growing VERY slow, around 1%..
The macroeconomic numbers and indications are starting to turn upwards again, they have actually turned only upwards the last years, the economies are picking up pace and will get back to good levels of growth again. Actually they are at decent levels, France was not far from the growth rates of the US the last quarter.

When the growth rate falls smaller than the job demand - that economy is not doing very well. Most of western european countries today fall under that definition.

Maximus Zeebra said:
Well, the debt problem is nothing compared to what problems the US have with that, not really anything to worry about as we have surplusses with other countries.

That's the problem. you don't have surplusses with other countries.

Maximus Zeebra said:
The US have deficits and trade deficits with every single nation, which is why the dollar keeps declining until the US can produce more goods and get their exports figure to the same level as the import figure, or the import falling to the same levels as exports..
I am very proud of Germany btw, alone Germany has more exports than the US, is that not fantastic? Only 1/4th the population and 1/10th the physical size.

Germany is impressive -however the EU can not depend on just one Germany.
Yes the US has trade deficits the world over - but in contrast to Europe the US also leads the world in market design through research and development. In other words, the leader almost always in the "next best thing".

Maximus Zeebra said:
I would say the economic FOUNDATION Europe has is by far more solid and sustainable than that of the US.

On what accounts?

Maximus Zeebra said:
Well, the European nations are handing their armies over to each other through their cooperation.. The 60.000 EU rapid reaction force is just small first step towards a European defence.

How many of that rapid defense has ever been commited to the protection of european interests? Frankly individual nations will only care about individual nations. Not a single european nation will ever have the amount of influence militarily as the US.

Maximus Zeebra said:
In Europe we are economic frieds, we are not dominated by greed like the US, your ideas are old and all the same as the rest of the US, but your views are not shared across the globe.. Just because you think something, doesnt mean everyone thinks the same.

Greed like the US? That's just a bias jealousy towards the US with absolutely no basis whatsoever.

Maximus Zeebra said:
I never said any of those things, you are twisting and turning my words into something you claim I said.

I do know one thing, the US economy is dependant on war and the military, and the 21st century is not the age of military and conflict, it will be of peace and love.. No one wants the US violent policies anymore, and that will reflect in the fall of the US, unless they try some desperate last cramp moves of going to war again.

The largest industries in the US..
1. Military
2. Prison
3. Oil

Is that what led the US through the 90's? War?
Perhaps that's what led the US in the 20's? Europeans are not dependent on weapon proliferation? Stats of British and French say otherwise.
There is a large portion of the US economy that is from military and oil represents transportation as does in all other economies in the world including European.
US policies are not for the world, they are for the US - pursuit of market interest policies are representative of any economy in the world.
The premise of this thread is that of seeing if or how the US power would fall on solid basis. What you've shown thus far are nothing more than a bias jealousy and ignorant assumptions.
You here deny that you've stated "Again your fallacy rests that you think the US economy is going to remain dependent on oil as well as a flawed assumption that the Euro is independent of oil." yet here in this post you clearly make the statement that

Shame that for the dollar, its been nice for 30 or so years, but the oil age is over, SO is the dollar.

AS well as the former statement that European economy has somehow already become dependent only on hydrogen.

Who knows what it will be even in 5 years, the trust other countries have in the Euro is much stronger than the trust other nations have in the unstable and unreliable dollar.. A good reason that the hydrogen economy will be what will underpin the Euro, and the oil era of the dollar is out.
Even in the oil era you might see this starting, with more and more oil countries accepting Euro, and changing to Euro as foreign holdings.
The Euro is now the second most held and used currency in the world after the dollar, with about 20-30% of the market against 50-60% for the dollar.
Now that is impressive considering the dollar has lived for some 300 years and the Euro less than 10 years.

I've not twisted any of your words, only continued on what you have yourself stated.

Volker · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

Maximus Zeebra said:
The only American culture that is not European is its music, its movies and hamburgers.. So think again..:roll:

Don't forget that Hamburg is in Germany :mrgreen:

Maximus Zeebra · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

jfuh said:
Are you in a bubble? -
source

I am sorry, you were actually right about this one, third quarter France stagnated, 0% growth from second quarter..
But overall the picture in Europe seems pretty decent, with that exception.
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/pl...REREL_YEAR_2006_MONTH_11/2-14112006-EN-AP.PDF

jfuh said:
It's not hard to understand at all. You seem to have this illusion that eastern european growth = european growth overall even though growth in most of western europe is near negligible.

quarter2
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/pl...EREL_YEAR_2006_MONTH_10/2-11102006-EN-AP1.PDF
quarter3.
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/pl...REREL_YEAR_2006_MONTH_11/2-14112006-EN-AP.PDF
With the exception of Italy and Portugal it seems pretty good overall, very strong in the east. Greece had a pick of from stagnation.
EU25 2.8% from quarter 3 of 2005, the US 2.9%, far above Japan for example.
The Eorozone a bit behind with 2.6%, but hardly stagnating..
You better read your numbers again boy, and let me know real facts next time.. Sorry about being wrong with France, I admit you were right, I just hadnt seen it yet, and I dont blindly believe peoples claims on the internet.

jfuh said:
Tell me how that one works given the current divisions culturally, ethnically and most important - nationally.

Well, you dont live in Europe, do you? People are mixing all around, infact all around me I see people from Poland, Holland, Germany, England, Spain, Italy etc.. And hey, right now, I am in Ireland.. I came from Bruxelles, there I was surrounded by Scandinavians, Italians, French, Eastern Europeans, all kind of people, and they get along GREAT.
You cannot sum up intregation in an article, nor can you comment on it when you are not seeing it first hand.

jfuh said:
When the growth rate falls smaller than the job demand - that economy is not doing very well. Most of western european countries today fall under that definition.

Well, if that is the case, nor is the economies of the US, Japan and most other industrial nations, ECXEPT Russia.. only developing nations are doing well according to your defintitions..
Again, I CAN show you more numbers if you need for you to see that the growth and activity is about the same as the US now, having a comback from sluggish growth, overly positive outlooks.. I suggest you look at different papers in Eurostat and find out that MANY figures are very positive and only getting better.

jfuh said:
That's the problem. you don't have surplusses with other countries.

I beg to differ...
2-21122006-EN-AP.PDF - pdf2html
Service surplus.

The European countries have lots of surpluses with different countries around the world, but ALLTOGETHER there is a trade deficit, but hardly mentionable when looking at the US debt/deficit problem.

I couldnt find the paper in PDF, but I can refer you to a form page where you can see the stats.

jfuh said:
Germany is impressive -however the EU can not depend on just one Germany.
Yes the US has trade deficits the world over - but in contrast to Europe the US also leads the world in market design through research and development. In other words, the leader almost always in the "next best thing".

Export figures of the world..

#1 Germany: $1,016,000,000,000.00
#2 United States: $927,500,000,000.00
#3 China: $752,200,000,000.00
#4 Japan: $550,500,000,000.00
#5 France: $443,400,000,000.00
#6 United Kingdom: $372,700,000,000.00
#7 Italy: $371,900,000,000.00
#8 Netherlands: $365,100,000,000.00
#9 Canada: $364,800,000,000.00
#10 Korea, South: $288,200,000,000.00
#11 Belgium: $269,600,000,000.00

The Eu country numbers DO include intra trade between member states, BUT there are figures that shows that the EU external exports is close to 2 trillion € annually, or more than twice as much(bigger than China AND the US together), closer to 2.5 more than the second largest, the US, hardly only Germany that is impressive. Per capita, the exports is about 1.2 ratio to the US then. So per capita the EU export a little more, in contrast with the GDP that is lower..

jfuh said:
On what accounts?
How many of that rapid defense has ever been commited to the protection of european interests? Frankly individual nations will only care about individual nations. Not a single european nation will ever have the amount of influence militarily as the US.

No not a single European nation will have the military of the US, a European federation will have equal if THEY WANT.. BUT I do not think they want or need that, and will have an almost equal military to the US.. But since we are allied, that will be plentiful, Europe can then also contribute to the defence of the US through NATO if needed, instead of only relying on the US military and the national militaries of the European nations(inefficient).
A combination through NATO of the two strongest militaries of the world though NATO will be an unchallenged military alliance, which is needed when China is rising.
Without Europe and a strong NATO, the US influence and power will crumble to irrelevancy.

jfuh said:
Greed like the US? That's just a bias jealousy towards the US with absolutely no basis whatsoever.

The US is a greedy capitalist society, where everything is about grabbing the most for yourself.. Europe is different than this, but still capitalist.. The only thing I mean, European dont let themself be consumed by greed.

jfuh said:
Is that what led the US through the 90's? War?

Yes..

jfuh said:
Perhaps that's what led the US in the 20's? Europeans are not dependent on weapon proliferation? Stats of British and French say otherwise.
There is a large portion of the US economy that is from military and oil represents transportation as does in all other economies in the world including European.

Well, Americans consume twice as much oil as Europe, yet we all have cars and electricity as well.. They also pollute twice as much.

jfuh said:
US policies are not for the world, they are for the US - pursuit of market interest policies are representative of any economy in the world.
The premise of this thread is that of seeing if or how the US power would fall on solid basis. What you've shown thus far are nothing more than a bias jealousy and ignorant assumptions.

You are right, US policies ARE not for the world, they are for the US, the exact reason the US must focus on their home policies and not break their good relatiohsips with countries around the world like they have the last 5 years.
The influence the US had around the world is broken, and ready to take over or be equal or better is both the EU and China, and India is also coming..
In a world of Europe united, China and India, the US will mean far less than they did after their powergrab after second world war, and the nomination of dollar as oil currency, the ONLY two reasons the US have been a superpower..

European culture and history has dominated the world the last thousand years, the US a sattelite influence of Europe, hardly much different has been a dominant power in the shortcomings of Europe after it laid crushed after world war 2.. Europe is not crushed anymore, and had a fantastic comeback the US did not have to go through.. Europe will also definetly play a large or the largest role in the world the next thousand years.

jfuh said:
You here deny that you've stated "Again your fallacy rests that you think the US economy is going to remain dependent on oil as well as a flawed assumption that the Euro is independent of oil." yet here in this post you clearly make the statement that AS well as the former statement that European economy has somehow already become dependent only on hydrogen.

I've not twisted any of your words, only continued on what you have yourself stated.

You have misunderstood then..

No where do I state that Europe has no dependency on oil and have already switched to a hydrogen economy.. I suggest you re-read.
I didnt say it is dependant on Hydrogen, I said it is not dependant on oil to the same degree that the US is, and that IT will BE the dominant currency of the Hydrogen economy WHEN it comes.

PeteEU · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

jfuh said:
Germany is impressive -however the EU can not depend on just one Germany.
Yes the US has trade deficits the world over - but in contrast to Europe the US also leads the world in market design through research and development. In other words, the leader almost always in the "next best thing".

Comments like this make my hair rise. There is no doubt that the US does lead in some fields, but hardly all. The US is not "best" at everything, not even close. Out of the the 10 biggest pharma firms in the world, 5 are European, with 2 in the top 3. The biggest car company is arguablly Japanese, and it was a european who invented the car. The airplane was first flown by an american but first desinged by a European, but the jet engine was invented by a Brit. Many popular actors and actresses in popular movies are non american (British and Canadian mostly). The US sucks at manufacturing, as it has outsourced its production. The US has no TV maker anymore, but Europe does... in fact it invented things like the DVD, CD and other things we use in our daily lives. Japan, South Korea and others out developed the US on technology. Its not the US that makes bigger and better computer memory chips anymore, its firms in South Korea and Japan. Yea it is the US that makes the main computer chips today though, for now....

Of the biggest banks in the world, the US has 2 in the top 10, the rest are European or Japanese.. and that goes to 4 in the top 20. The top bank in 2005 was Swiss and I believe it is British in 2006.

Point is, the US has the most powerfull (not biggest) military in the world, and has the biggest market (barely), but its not the best at everything, nore is Europe. The only thing that is certain is that China will produce crap the cheapest at this point in time.

As for trends.. really depends on what we look at. Cars, the "trend" of smaller more fuel efficent cars aint american. Fashion.. some comes from the US, especially the "popular" fashion, but the core trendsetter is still European, espcially French. Technology.. yea on some fronts, on others not. Ipod and online music buying became popular in the US first, however only barely. Wireless internet, either via the mobile phone or "hot spots" is far more used in Japan than the US, and even in some major European cities. The trend in broadband is set by Europeans and Asians, not America.. as more have broadband and bigger broadband in Europe and especially South Korea than in the US (per capita).. last I looked. The US did set the "trend" of online gaming, yet today China has more online gamers.

Have to face, that the world is a global village, and trends are set all over the place by different nations.

How many of that rapid defense has ever been commited to the protection of european interests? Frankly individual nations will only care about individual nations. Not a single european nation will ever have the amount of influence militarily as the US.

And thats because we want to have that influence? We tried that you know.. several European nations... for a thousand years plus... we kinda over it. Europeans ruled the world long before America was born, we ruled by the grace of god, country and church, and ruled with an iron fist.

Greed like the US? That's just a bias jealousy towards the US with absolutely no basis whatsoever.

If you mean greed as in, wanting bigger and bigger things, big cars, big houses, big meals and so on.. then yes greed is part of US culture. The US has no comparable production capacity to Europe, has less in population and yet consumes far far more resources than Europe to run its economy.... why is that?

US policies are not for the world, they are for the US - pursuit of market interest policies are representative of any economy in the world.

Correct, US policies are for the US (or certain parts anyways), and the US could give a rats *** about the rest of the world. And that is what ultimately will make US power "fail" world wide. It happened to the Brits, Spanish, Portugese, Germans, Italians, Romans,... the list is long. They thought of themselvs ahead of others, they thought they were superior and that in the end caused thier downfall.

Now is Europe any better.. barely and debateable at that, but we dont go around forcing our views on other nations via military might....

How so? US cultural influence is still quite strong - music, entertainment and so on. Contrast that with Europe - practically non-existent.

Again incorrect as I have stated. Many actors and actresses in US movies and tv are non americans by birth at least. Quite a few european movies have been ripped off by US film makers to be "remade". One such example is series The Office, the movie Nikita, Steven Kings Kingdom Hospital, "3 men and a baby" are some I remember off the top of my head. Some of the most popular and most sold singers and bands through history are European or non american.. maybe you heard about the Beatles?

If we look at history European cultural influence is still quite evident today even in the US. Your poltiical system and laws have not come out of the blue you know.. you did not invent democracy nore the republic. Heck the Chinese have arguably a bigger influence on the world than anyone single nation, alone via thier early inventions.

Volker · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

PeteEU said:
Yea it is the US that makes the main computer chips today though, for now....

When it comes to microprocessors in PC's, a lot of the design work is done in Haifa, Israel for Intel and in Dresden, Germany for AMD.

PeteEU · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

Volker said:
When it comes to microprocessors in PC's, a lot of the design work is done in Haifa, Israel for Intel and in Dresden, Germany for AMD.

Yea did not have the heart to mention that ...

Volker · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

PeteEU said:
Yea did not have the heart to mention that ...

Ok, I understand this.

Let's give them a TV maker back for it :mrgreen:

Westinghouse

Maximus Zeebra · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

Well, the US are good businessmen and warriors then..

Congrats, now lets conclude this thread with that. :roll:

MSgt · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if now why not?

Good grief. The denial is pathetic.

It is true that all "empires" fall, but America's demise is long time off. The U.S. will remain a SUPERPOWER for a multiple of reasons. Despite the needs of a few to tear down the American status in this world, we do maintain the moral high ground and we along with a few allies continue to have the will to act on it. Our economy is strong and the dollar is perhaps the most trusted. We lead the way in a multiple of social revolutions.

1) While Europeans may scoff at our removal of Saddam, they dismiss that their core countries (France and Germany - whose historical love affair for dictators won't die) did everything they could to support his status and the tyrants of the world noticed (Ahmenadejad writes love letters to Berlin). They may pretend that America has lost "half" it's power since 9/11, but they are swimming in denial. All those that suffer on this world look to America as the only country that might do something for them. Where ever the suffering needs help, it will be the American flag they will see. France and Germany are not on their list for hope.

2) While Europeans may scoff at our religious diversity and tolerations, they refuse to acknowledge that their prejudice of religion will only last as long as Islam remains the minority. Today, the procreation of "native" Europeans are in decline while the Muslim population is booming. This would not be a problem for America, because we have kept our faiths while setting aside the hatred. Europe's cure to religious strife was to dismiss it almost entirely. And of course the opposite is true for other regions of the earth. Some regions maintain a restrictive and strangling monopoly on religion.

3) America displays the most proficient use of human capitol in history. Our toleration of minorities, religion, and creed is exactly why we have excelled in such a short time. In terms of maximizing our human efficiency, consider the combined effects of opening our economy and society to women, to minorities, and to those who just a few generations ago would have been regarded as too old to contribute: Our humane, rewarding economy has become a juggernaut destined to roll over any competitor that restricts human contributions. Europe has historically proven time and again that no immigrant will rise too high. From the driving out of Spanish Jews, then the Moors, and then the eventual restrictions placed upon the intellectual and practical freedoms of all Spaniard, Spain committed cultural suicide and only recently has emerged from centuries of darkness. Berlin's expulsion and mass murder of its most prominent and creative portion of its population has ensured a legacy of the highest unemployment rates since 1943. In fact, the entire twentieth century was a saga of genocide and ethnic cleansings in Europe, with Greeks driven from Turkey, Turks driven from Greece, Chechens driven into Siberia, Poles driven from Germany and Ukraine, Germans driven from Poland and former Chechoslovakia, Hungarians scorched from Rumania, no end of small nations diminished, displaced, or slaughtered, and European Jewry annihilated. With such expulosions of creativity and a clinginess to tradition, no nation can expect to compete with America's human profficiency.

4) Socialism, a doctrine born in Europe, struck very deep roots. The collective takes priority over the individual. The European sicial contract amount6s to this: We will not let the talented rise too high, and we will not let the lazy gall too low. "Equality" doesn't mean equal opportunities, but equal limitations. For American, freedom means the freedom to do. To make our own way, to struggle, to achieve, to rise, to move beyond our parents lot in life and give our children better chances still. In Europe, the cobbler's son is still destined to be a cobbler. The European mentality is to choose a miserable security over the hopes that carry risks.

5) Our military is the strongest in history. We own the skies, the seas, and the ground. China? If China ever gave an unlikely reason, global sanctions and a shutting down of ports will do it. And let's not kid ourselves, when it comes to real power, it is the free trade and the sea lanes that offer it. It is the American military that ensures free passage for all. As long as America remains the superpower, all who thrive under free trade will benefit and all those people under those governments that benefit inherit from the effort.

6) We remain the most influental to those that matter. Eastern Europe is naturally drawn to the U.S., partly for gratitude and affection, but more enduringly from their sense that only Washington could and would protect them from another burst of Russian aggression (although Russia appearse less likely to ever regain sufficient power to pretend to empire). They remember too well what they suffered not only at Russian hands but from Germany's iron fist. Nor have they foprgotten France's coziness with Moscow during the Cold War. Recent French and German attempts at diplomatically bullying have only reminded Central and Eastern Europeans of the price they paid for previous follies committed by Berlin and Paris. The UK and Spain prove to be the most moral (second and third to Poland) in Europe with their acknowledgement that standing beside America against a brutal dictator was the right thing to do while others stood by and embraced and defended him. With Spain's emergence into a midst of a cultural reaissance, they threaten to embarrass other parts of Europe that have long held a false image of social advancements. France's foreign policy consists only of onanistic fantasies of undercutting American power while continuing the Gaullist tradition of embracing every Arab or African dictator willing to share bribes and share delusions. And in the wake of 9/11, Berlin and Paris has proven how weak they are. They have had a chair at the table for far too long hiding false strength under America's wing. When it comes to earthquake tragedies in India/Pakistan....Iran....tsunamis in southern Asian seas....volcano eruptions in the Phillipines...America continues to prove that our influence for aid and our on sight commitment is rightfully expected. The EU as a global influence? This is an organization that exists to cover the cracks in Europe and to keep outsiders from playing. The UN? This organization is so dictator-ridden and sick with corruption that it will rarely, if ever, call a tyrant to account. It has become a tool for protecting apprentice Hitlers. The world needs a body with greater moral legitimacy and greater physical force. The spread of freedom should be the goal. Last I checked...America has been this force. Quite recently, the UN and some European states refused to topple a dictator and preferred Muslim suffering to the difficulties that would come from freeing them. Of course, America would prefer a little help from those that owe us so much, but they have proven for decades that they are unwilling to lift their fingers for someone else.

All of this (among so many others) are the very reasons America is the SUPERPOWER and will continue to be so for a very long time. Whereever people taste true freedom in this world, they have no choice but to accept parts of the American culture. Even Ahmenadejad and the religious right in Iran know this, which is why the bannishment of western culture was an immediate prescription after his election. Our progress has not been easy. Some of our ancestros fled chains. Others arrived in chains. Some wore chains as they lived upon our soil. Our past has been imperfect. But unlikie others, we do not deny our mistakes. We do not embrace history as an excuse for continued failure. That alone sets us apart from the rest of the world. We are programmed for success and every time we do something else for ourselves, the world cringes. Instead of embracing and moving forward with us, even our "friends" in Europe find comfort in jealousy and contempt. But, perhaps, the most damaging aspect that seperates us from the rest of the world is everyone else's denial of who they are. As long as denial trumps honesty, other nations are programmed to fail.

Will the US remain a world power, if so how, if not why not?

Maximus Zeebra

MoG

Maximus Zeebra

MoG

Maximus Zeebra

MoG

Maximus Zeebra

MoG

Maximus Zeebra

MoG

liberateamerica

Member

jfuh

jfuh

jfuh

Maximus Zeebra

MoG

jfuh

Maximus Zeebra

MoG

Maximus Zeebra

MoG

Maximus Zeebra

MoG

jfuh

Maximus Zeebra

MoG

jfuh

Volker

Maximus Zeebra

MoG

PeteEU

Volker

PeteEU

Volker

Maximus Zeebra

MoG

MSgt

Read Some Books