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Can the "War on Terror" be won?

Can the "War on Terror" be won?

  • Total voters
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nort_12345 said:
jamesrage said:
When was the last time a abortion doctor was killed and how many have been killed by Christians?QUOTE]

abortion doctor murdered - Google Search
Click to expand...

It seems like the last abortion clinic bombing was almost ten years ago and according to this pro-abortion site only 10 people have been killed.

National Abortion Federation: Clinic Violence: Murders and Shootings

A chronology of abortion related murders and shootings follows.
DATE STATE CASE STATUS
10/1998 New York Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot and killed in his home in Amherst, New York. James Kopp was convicted of second-degree murder in state court and received the maximum sentence of twenty-five years to life in prison. He still faces federal charges of violating the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act.

1/1998 Alabama Officer Robert Sanderson was killed during a clinic bombing in Birmingham, AL. Emily Lyons, a nurse at the clinic was severely injured in the blast. Eric Rudolph has been charged with the bombing and is in police custody awaiting trial.

11/1997 Manitoba Dr. Jack Fainman was shot and injured in his home in Winnipeg, Manitoba. James Kopp is a suspect in the shooting.

10/1997 New York An unnamed physician was shot at in his home in Rochester, New York. James Kopp is a suspect in the shooting.

11/1995 Ontario Dr. Hugh Short was shot and injured in his home in Ancaster, Ontario. James Kopp has been charged with attempted murder in the shooting.

12/1994 Massachusetts Shannon Lowney and Leanne Nichols were shot and killed by John Salvi at two clinics in Brookline, Massachusetts. Five others were injured in the attacks. Salvi was sentenced to two life terms but committed suicide in prison in November 1996

11/1994 Vancouver Dr. Garson Romalis was shot and seriously wounded in his home in Vancouver, British Columbia. James Kopp is a suspect in the shooting.

7/1994 Florida Dr. John Bayard Britton and his escort, James H. Barrett were shot and killed in front of a clinic in Pensacola, Florida by Paul J. Hill. June Barrett was also shot and injured
in the incident. Hill was executed by lethal injection on September 3, 2003.

8/1993 Kansas Dr. George Tiller was shot and injured by Rachelle Shannon at his clinic in Wichita, Kansas. Shannon is serving an 11-year sentence for attempted first-degree murder. She is serving additional prison time for six arsons and two butyric acid attacks

3/1993 Florida Dr. David Gunn was shot to death by Michael Griffin in Pensacola, Florida. Griffin is serving a life sentence for murder



Now lets look at how many incidences of Islamic terrorism there is.
List of Hamas suicide attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Total number of fatalities, by year
Year Total
1993 2
1994 38
1995 10
1996 59
1997 24
2001 78
2002 141
2003 89
2004 31
2005 10

List of Palestinian Islamic Jihad suicide attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Total number of fatalities, by year
Year Total
1995 21
1996 13
2001 22
2002 45
2003 26
2004 0
2005 21
2006 11

List of Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades suicide attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Total number of fatalities, by year
Year Total
2001 3
2002 35
2003 26
2004 36
2005 11
2006 15


Iraq Coalition Casualties: Contractor Deaths - A Partial List
Iraq Coalition Casualties: Contractors - A Partial List
Total: 376

U.N.: Iraqi civilian death toll reaches new monthly high - CNN.com
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Insurgent attacks in Iraq killed 3,709 civilians last month, making October the deadliest month since the war began in 2003, according to U.N. figures.

The U.N. Assistance Mission in Iraq, which issues bimonthly human rights reports on the war-torn country, came out with its findings for September and October on Wednesday.

September had 3,345 civilian deaths -- which, along with October, would bring to 7,054 the number of violent deaths during the two-month period, according to the U.N. tally.

Baghdad alone had no less than 4,985 deaths, "most of them as a result of gunshot wounds," said the U.N. Assistance Mission, using figures provided by the Iraqi Health Ministry.

The figures were slightly higher than in July and August, when 6,599 civilians were killed.



I could go on and on about Islamic terrorist.Islamic terrorism makes the abortion clinic bombings look insignificant.
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nort_12345 said:
how can you compare liberals to terrorists?
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Considering the democrat's history with the KKK,it is too easy to make the comparison.Can you name any republican senator or congressmen right now in office who is or used to be in the KKK?

at least i'm not a conservative facist that is in the kkk.
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I am not in the KKK nor am I a fascist and I think hating people based on skin color is ignorant.
 
Johnny_Utah said:
Are you claiming that since I say that the issue is diverse and positive solutions are perplexing that I am watching to much TV and being spoon-fed party lines instead of thinking abou the issue?
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Though it would appear that you are making yourself a personal target for my statements, I merely mentioned that most Americans are too encouraged to simply listen to the reporter in order to gain wisdom as the books on these issues remain closed. The fact that the global situation is quite a complicated one aids in the average gloabal citizen's will to shut down and look for easy answers.
 
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Originally Posted by Gysgt
Though it would appear that you are making yourself a personal target for my statements, I merely mentioned that most Americans are too encouraged to simply listen to the reporter in order to gain wisdom as the books on these issues remain closed. The fact that the global situation is quite a complicated one aids in the average gloabal citizen's will to shut down and look for easy answers.
Click to expand...

I did not mean to imply that you were targeting me by any means, sorry if I did not phrase that well.

I merely meant that you describe that:

Originally Posted by GySgt
It's not perplexing to anyone that will simply turn their TV sets off, deny the reporter his glory in reporting the events of the day, and read on the issues instead of waiting for a self-serving politician - of any party - to spell it out for them.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't even watch TV, I have no idea about who the reporters are now, I am a Conservative Independent, yet I am perplexed by the complicated nature of this situation and how we could best defeat the enemy. I am smart, I have researched this and I do pay attention and it IS complicated, yet you say that it is not perplexing. I am trying to figure out what your intention is. Are you dismissing any person that disagrees with you? Do you have a solution? You say that it is not perplexing but then you say that it is complicated.

Fighting with mind and body is necessary, but I don't like to dismiss even the opinions that talk about the top of the Umbrella. There is insight there as well.
 
jamesrage said:
nort_12345 said:
It seems like the last abortion clinic bombing was almost ten years ago and according to this pro-abortion site only 10 people have been killed.

National Abortion Federation: Clinic Violence: Murders and Shootings

A chronology of abortion related murders and shootings follows.
DATE STATE CASE STATUS
10/1998 New York Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot and killed in his home in Amherst, New York. James Kopp was convicted of second-degree murder in state court and received the maximum sentence of twenty-five years to life in prison. He still faces federal charges of violating the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act.

1/1998 Alabama Officer Robert Sanderson was killed during a clinic bombing in Birmingham, AL. Emily Lyons, a nurse at the clinic was severely injured in the blast. Eric Rudolph has been charged with the bombing and is in police custody awaiting trial.

11/1997 Manitoba Dr. Jack Fainman was shot and injured in his home in Winnipeg, Manitoba. James Kopp is a suspect in the shooting.

10/1997 New York An unnamed physician was shot at in his home in Rochester, New York. James Kopp is a suspect in the shooting.

11/1995 Ontario Dr. Hugh Short was shot and injured in his home in Ancaster, Ontario. James Kopp has been charged with attempted murder in the shooting.

12/1994 Massachusetts Shannon Lowney and Leanne Nichols were shot and killed by John Salvi at two clinics in Brookline, Massachusetts. Five others were injured in the attacks. Salvi was sentenced to two life terms but committed suicide in prison in November 1996

11/1994 Vancouver Dr. Garson Romalis was shot and seriously wounded in his home in Vancouver, British Columbia. James Kopp is a suspect in the shooting.

7/1994 Florida Dr. John Bayard Britton and his escort, James H. Barrett were shot and killed in front of a clinic in Pensacola, Florida by Paul J. Hill. June Barrett was also shot and injured
in the incident. Hill was executed by lethal injection on September 3, 2003.

8/1993 Kansas Dr. George Tiller was shot and injured by Rachelle Shannon at his clinic in Wichita, Kansas. Shannon is serving an 11-year sentence for attempted first-degree murder. She is serving additional prison time for six arsons and two butyric acid attacks

3/1993 Florida Dr. David Gunn was shot to death by Michael Griffin in Pensacola, Florida. Griffin is serving a life sentence for murder



Now lets look at how many incidences of Islamic terrorism there is.
List of Hamas suicide attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Total number of fatalities, by year
Year Total
1993 2
1994 38
1995 10
1996 59
1997 24
2001 78
2002 141
2003 89
2004 31
2005 10

List of Palestinian Islamic Jihad suicide attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Total number of fatalities, by year
Year Total
1995 21
1996 13
2001 22
2002 45
2003 26
2004 0
2005 21
2006 11

List of Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades suicide attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Total number of fatalities, by year
Year Total
2001 3
2002 35
2003 26
2004 36
2005 11
2006 15


Iraq Coalition Casualties: Contractor Deaths - A Partial List
Iraq Coalition Casualties: Contractors - A Partial List
Total: 376

U.N.: Iraqi civilian death toll reaches new monthly high - CNN.com
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Insurgent attacks in Iraq killed 3,709 civilians last month, making October the deadliest month since the war began in 2003, according to U.N. figures.

The U.N. Assistance Mission in Iraq, which issues bimonthly human rights reports on the war-torn country, came out with its findings for September and October on Wednesday.

September had 3,345 civilian deaths -- which, along with October, would bring to 7,054 the number of violent deaths during the two-month period, according to the U.N. tally.

Baghdad alone had no less than 4,985 deaths, "most of them as a result of gunshot wounds," said the U.N. Assistance Mission, using figures provided by the Iraqi Health Ministry.

The figures were slightly higher than in July and August, when 6,599 civilians were killed.



I could go on and on about Islamic terrorist.Islamic terrorism makes the abortion clinic bombings look insignificant.
Click to expand...

the list wasn't updated for after '98 for the abortion doctor murders but your terrorist stats went to 2004.

let's compare the people killed in the terrorist attacks to the abortion doctors being killed. there are about 40,000 abortion doctors in the us. 10 have been murdered. so about one out of every 4000 doctors are murdered. now for the people mudered from terrorism. if you take the population of iraq or afghanistan (their population are about the same) which is 30,000,000. w/ 767 murders, that means that one out of about 39,000 people are killed. and that's only one country.

a site you could check out:
http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/current/2000/032300/FWIW.html
Click to expand...
 
Johnny_Utah said:
I did not mean to imply that you were targeting me by any means, sorry if I did not phrase that well.

I merely meant that you describe that:



Well, I don't even watch TV, I have no idea about who the reporters are now, I am a Conservative Independent, yet I am perplexed by the complicated nature of this situation and how we could best defeat the enemy. I am smart, I have researched this and I do pay attention and it IS complicated, yet you say that it is not perplexing. I am trying to figure out what your intention is. Are you dismissing any person that disagrees with you? Do you have a solution? You say that it is not perplexing but then you say that it is complicated.

Fighting with mind and body is necessary, but I don't like to dismiss even the opinions that talk about the top of the Umbrella. There is insight there as well.
Click to expand...



Meh...we just confused each other. Of course it's perplexing to most. I merely meant that many don't take the time to actually learn the basics. I don't find too much of it complicated as I once did, but I have been studying this enemy and his culture for some time. I first faced them in 1993 and knew what our future was going to be. The true complication with this "War on Terror" is that we are stuck in foreign policies that do not aid in our obligations. Our government has managed to cling to both, while maintaining an uneasy "stability" for all. I do have some solutions that are in keeping with current efforts with a little of my own thrown in. I've displayed them before, but I'll type some out again...

1) Acknowledge the threat posed by Radical Islam.

2) We are not targeting Islam, just the Radical Islamists – we need to say so often.

3) Support the moderate voices (indirectly).

4) Focus our efforts on the long term enemy = the creation of more Radical Islamists. Currently our focus has been primarily on war efforts to combat today's terrorist. We have to accept that in the process of our endeavors, we will make a few terrorists along the way.

5) Garner worldwide support for this effort…..and at least engage in the IO war. Currently, much of the world has refused to help us in Iraq, but they can help us in many other efforts that do not include war.

6) Designate a special department within DOS that enlists the aid of military itelligencia personel and cultural experts as a lead agency against countering Radical Islam.

7) Following recognition of the individual threats within the greater threat – fund the programs necessary to counter it. Currently, we have wasted countless of treasure upon Iraq while dismissing the needs everywhere else.

8) Reorganize foreign assistance funding and efforts creating "Regional Directors" that actually control assets. Reorganize DOS along Geographical vice Functional Lines (much like DoD Combatant CDRs).

9) Resolve Israeli / Palestinian and Indian / Pakistani disputes. This is a given, but it is the source of much focused and traditional hate used as justification for violence.

10) We must succeed in both Afghanistan and Iraq….and ensure these are perceived as successes in the Muslim world. The moderates must see the silver lining instead of the black cloud the Radicals offer.

11) Counter Radical Islamic Media. Currently, we are losing the IO war and our own media is against us. Al-Jazeera is the eyes and ears to the Muslim ME and European and American media welcome their spins as "free press" rather than propaganda against us. The race for sensationalism has left the world spinning in confusion and our enemies hardened.

12) Reestablish funding for cultural outreach programs cut following end of Cold War.

13) Give a voice to moderate Islamic leaders (indirectly). Currently, they find only enough courage to speak out when extreme cases of Radicalism occurs.

14) Support Programs Dedicated to Providing Educational Reform in Threatened Countries. Governments with strong governmental oversight over the education of their young must be rewarded; likewise those that do not provide such oversight must be punished.


Now, this will not bring about that "win" people are looking for. That will never happen, because this is not that kind of war. This will begin to create a world that is much more favorable for all involved rather than the present day activity. But, people have to understand that a terrorist attack on American soil that might get through in a few years does not mean that we have "lost."
 
Can we expect a reasonable amount of protection from terrorist? Yes, we have Spys, the FBI, theCIA, local and state police. All kind of intelligence gathering stuff. It is like asking can we stop gang violence and drugs. We can achieve a reaonable amount of success, Since the War on Terror is not against a nation, but against a multinational group. It is hard to win. It is not going to be done in Iraq. Iraq has nothing to do with the war on terror.

The Words, War on Terror, are just right wing spin. War implies and enemy and Bush is creating enemies faster than we can kill them.
 
I will read that in further detail later GySgt, but I wanted to acknowledge our miscommunication as well. It is all good. I will post tomorrow most likely.
 
nort_12345 said:
jamesrage said:
the list wasn't updated for after '98 for the abortion doctor murders but your terrorist stats went to 2004.

let's compare the people killed in the terrorist attacks to the abortion doctors being killed. there are about 40,000 abortion doctors in the us. 10 have been murdered. so about one out of every 4000 doctors are murdered. now for the people mudered from terrorism. if you take the population of iraq or afghanistan (their population are about the same) which is 30,000,000. w/ 767 murders, that means that one out of about 39,000 people are killed. and that's only one country.

a site you could check out:
03/23/2000 - Pennsylvania Current: For What It's Worth: Abortion hit list and free speech
Click to expand...

The statistics still do not change the fact that only 10 abortion doctors have been murdered while over thousands perhaps hundreds of thousands have been murdered by Muslim terrorist all around the world.Seems kind of pathetic that your trying to downplay the murder committed by Islamo-nazis/Hitlers in head scarves just to make the 10 murdered abortion doctors seem more significant.
Click to expand...
 
jamesrage said:
Considering the democrat's history with the KKK,it is too easy to make the comparison.Can you name any republican senator or congressmen right now in office who is or used to be in the KKK?
Click to expand...

can you name a liberal?

jamesrage said:
I am not in the KKK nor am I a fascist and I think hating people based on skin color is ignorant.
Click to expand...

so do i
 
jamesrage said:
nort_12345 said:
The statistics still do not change the fact that only 10 abortion doctors have been murdered while over thousands perhaps hundreds of thousands have been murdered by Muslim terrorist all around the world.Seems kind of pathetic that your trying to downplay the murder committed by Islamo-nazis/Hitlers in head scarves just to make the 10 murdered abortion doctors seem more significant.
Click to expand...

you didn't seem to believe me about the murdering of the abortion doctors. i'm not saying one is worse than the other because both the abortion doctor murders and the terrorists are killing people. and a much bigger percentage of abortion doctors have been killed than people in the middle east or iraq alone.
Click to expand...
 
nort_12345 said:
jamesrage said:
you didn't seem to believe me about the murdering of the abortion doctors.
Click to expand...

I believe you,its that more people probably died choking on a sandwich than the number of abortion doctors killed.
i'm not saying one is worse than the other because both the abortion doctor murders and the terrorists are killing people. and a much bigger percentage of abortion doctors have been killed than people in the middle east or iraq alone.
Click to expand...

It seems to me that you are trying to downplay all the Muslim terrorism because your trying to make 10 deaths seem more than the hundred thousand plus deaths attributed to muslim terrorist.
Click to expand...
 
Yes Nort, you've successfully proved that right wing extremists are a larger threat to 40,000 abortion doctors than Islamic extremists. :roll:

But that is truly an irrelevant piece of information. The fact remains that Islamic Extremists have killed more people and caused much more problems than right-wing extremist groups in recent years.

If you're still trying to say that terrorism isn't connected to Radical Islam, I'd say you wandered into absurdville a long time ago. It's a recognized problem.
 
GySgt said:
I first faced them in 1993 and knew what our future was going to be. The true complication with this "War on Terror" is that we are stuck in foreign policies that do not aid in our obligations. Our government has managed to cling to both, while maintaining an uneasy "stability" for all. I do have some solutions that are in keeping with current efforts with a little of my own thrown in. I've displayed them before, but I'll type some out again...
Click to expand...

Thanks for this post.
 
jamesrage said:
nort_12345 said:
I believe you,its that more people probably died choking on a sandwich than the number of abortion doctors killed.


It seems to me that you are trying to downplay all the Muslim terrorism because your trying to make 10 deaths seem more than the hundred thousand plus deaths attributed to muslim terrorist.
Click to expand...

no not many abortion doctors are murdered, but i was trying to show you that if a connection of islam and terrorism can be made, than christians and terrorism can be made also. of course 100,000's of people getting killed is worse than 10. i was just trying to show you connection can be made.

but like skip said, the "islamic" terrorists aren't real muslims if they are murdering people just like i'm sure you agree the "christians" that murder abortion doctors aren't real christians.
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Thales said:
I'm afraid you completely misinterpretted what I said.

I said that the majority of terrorist activities are connected to radical Islam. I then stated that although this is true, the MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS ARE NOT TERRORISTS.

As in the minority of Muslims are causing the majority of the terrorist issues we have today.



So are you implying that fighting the Nazi's wasn't worth it?

The Nazis hated america, and needed to be stopped. They're an excellent example of some people that we simply could not negotiate with. We couldn't kill the Nazi ideas any better than we'll be able to kill terrorism - but we can destroy much of it.

And the simple fact remains that those who can't be negotiated with will have to be killed. I'm not arguing that this is always the case - I firmly believe that we should try negotiatiing whenever possible. But if negotiating doesn't work or if their demands can't be met without moral concessions from us, force needs to be used.
Click to expand...

the nazis are different because hitler just wanted to take over the world whle the terroists now are pissed off at america and are getting back at us
 
jamesrage said:
Are you saying we should talk with the terrorist?




If that is true then what are they doing to help lower the murder rate,drunk driving and other crimes that result in people getting hurt or killed?
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i should ahve said that anti-war people don't like people getting hurt or killed from fighting. yes there is a high murder rate but war is the one thing where huge amounts of people get killed. it is also important to try and control the murder rate, but war is the worst.
 
Thales said:
Yes Nort, you've successfully proved that right wing extremists are a larger threat to 40,000 abortion doctors than Islamic extremists. :roll:

But that is truly an irrelevant piece of information. The fact remains that Islamic Extremists have killed more people and caused much more problems than right-wing extremist groups in recent years.

If you're still trying to say that terrorism isn't connected to Radical Islam, I'd say you wandered into absurdville a long time ago. It's a recognized problem.
Click to expand...

christian terrorists have killed a much larger percent of abortion doctors than islam terrorists have killing middle eastern people

so we can also say that radical christianity is connected to terrorism. i still don't believe that either groups is religious because neither islam or christianity approves of terrorism.
 
liberals are ridiculed for hating america and all that bs. just because we are trying to improve this country doesn't mean that we hate it. if anyone hates america, then it is the conservatives because they try to keep it the same as it started as. not wanting to improve america sounds more anti-american than trying to improve it.
 
nort_12345 said:
the nazis are different because hitler just wanted to take over the world whle the terroists now are pissed off at america and are getting back at us
Click to expand...
Getting back at us for what?
 
nort_12345 said:
christian terrorists have killed a much larger percent of abortion doctors than islam terrorists have killing middle eastern people

so we can also say that radical christianity is connected to terrorism. i still don't believe that either groups is religious because neither islam or christianity approves of terrorism.
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I won't argue that we have chrisitian radicalists that are no different in principle to the islamic fundamentalists. However, there have been far less of them killing abortion clinic physicians than islamic radicals killing anyone that is not them. The figure is completely incomparable.
 
dragonslayer said:
It is not going to be done in Iraq. Iraq has nothing to do with the war on terror.

The Words, War on Terror, are just right wing spin. War implies and enemy and Bush is creating enemies faster than we can kill them.
Click to expand...

C'mon man. Why is it that people can't view this world without the foggy goggles of partisan slavery? The words "War on Terror" may be misnamed, but these words are mostly misunderstood. If you are going to protest, at least do it honestly.

Nobody has ever claimed that Iraq is the end all be all of this effort. To think as such or to imply that others have claimed this is highly irresponsible and is counter constructive. If Iraq doesn't matter, then why have so many Islamic terrorist traveled through deserts and over mountains to fight there? Why has Al-Queda chosen to face off the U.S. military in the cities of Iraq? For those that can remain honest to today's issues, consider this:

While both Islam and Christianity has soaked themselves in blood, they bear different birthrights. Just as the stronger roles allotted to women in the Bible may help to explain the empowerment of women in western culture, so the formative years of these two warring civilizations may warn us of alarming cracks in the cultural foundations of Middle Eastern Islam. Despite their similar appetites for horror in later centuries, Christianity began as a pascifist movement while Islam was wrought in war. It is entirely understandable that a religion's roots can shape its psychology over the course of two thousand years. Many in today's PC, "hate religion" civilizations simply refuse to acknowlege the impact that religion has played in today's efforts, but by doing so only aids in our confusion. People may refuse to "believe," but they should not refuse to believe that religion is very real.

Consider that Christianity's roots is traced back to a man that personified peace and love over revenge and hatred. Consider that he was a man that befriended those that were shunned by others that would cross the street to avoid. Consider that Jesus would not allow even Satan to tempt him into sin. The childhood of Islam was that of Cain to the Christian Abel. Muhammed survived by making war on pagan Arabs, who as soon as they were subjugated, swelled the tribal armies of Islam. Inspired by the religious monotheism of "for us," - something Christianity and Judaism are certainly guilty of in sentiment - Islam exploded out of the Arabian desert with such a fury that it toppled empires, always through warfare. The Prophet Muhammed was no sooner dead than fictional strife led to savage battles among the faithful, provoking the Shia secession (a mirror of what later occurred in 16th century Europe between Catholics and Protestants). After the Crusades - fought by unmeasured zealousy on both sides - and by the thirteenth century both faiths had hardened into the irreconcilable positions they maintain today. Does Christianity's initial emphasis on nonviolence make it more likely to compromise and coexist? History has shown Christian violence on an explosive scale since those roots, but always there is the presence of cooler heads to remind us of the life of Jesus Christ.

The Shia form of Islam was born not only in combat, but in a succession of disastrous battles lost to betrayals and conspiracies of the sort that poison the Middle East's psychology today. We see the anchient lines drawn quite clearly between the Shi'ite and the Sunni. Our time in history is one of religious strife in the Islamic world. It is a time where individual opportunities are wrecked and destroyed at birth and social failures (prescribed by the faithful) have built a civilization that embraces blame as an escape from responsibility. In this revival we have only seen the beginnings of the slaughterings (Pakistan, Somalia, Sudan, Iraq) between definitions of salvation. In today's Middle East, we see only a goulish spiritual revival (thanks to the Muslim Brotherhood) that feed on corpses. Events like 9/11 and men like Bin Ladden are merely symptoms of a greater threat. We hear all the time that most of the Middle East is of the moderates. Well, this is very true, however by stopping short of trying to understand the psychological impacts that religion's indoctrinated people have only exhonerates truth. Do the moderate voices of Islam remain largely silent because they fear their Radical minority or do they fear that they may be defying "God" himself? Can Islam redeem itself? Is Islam destined to baptize itself in blood as it exponentially breeds religious terrorism? The great test case of our time is Iraq.

The importance of Iraq can be clearly seen. No tyrant or their religious tyrant leaders in government can survive in a situation where the people choose the laws that would govern them. This is precisely why so many Middle Eastern governments have sought to inhibit the emergence of a legitimate and free Iraqi state where Sunni and Shi'ite live in peace and under the protection of a western inspired democracy. Short of sending in troops, Syria and Iran did all they could to subvert the occupation and Iraq's intermim government. Turkey sulks and slows the passage of trade. Jordan is in a defensive crouch. Terrified by what they have conjured through its decades of support for religious fanatics and the prospect that they can no longer count on America to turn a blind eye, the House of Saud has been quietly pleased to get rid of their extremist trash and have just announced that they may support the Sunni fighters (brothers in arms). Iran is guilty of encouraging Shi'ite militias. And Egypt dreads the dynamism of a true Arab democracy. Even Al-Queda was determined to undermine every success Iraqi Muslims sought to gain away from the brutal oppressions their Radical culture would prescribe to them. Zarqawi even resorted to slaughtering those that would be free.

Unfortunatley, our beginnings of this unplanned endeavor involved the amatuer's mistake of masking true intentions. The use of WMD as a motive harmed our efforts and by insisting that oil is not a factor, we played into cynic hands everywhere. What we had really done - recognized by people not at the partisan table of sweets and goodies - has carried the battle against religious terrorism to the breeding grounds of fanaticism of the broken civilization of the Middle East. Instead of waiting for this religious scourge to infect more of the world, we have chosen to apply the brakes on their soil. Try as some may, Iraq can not be seperated from the failures of the Middle East just because the 9/11 terrorists were not Iraqi. This is a fools decree that diminshes America to a country of revenge only. But chasing down the inevitable Middle Eastern terrorists as they kill is irresponsible when we know what breeds them. One might as well declare that a bandaid on a compund fracture will mend the arm. Afghanistan is far better than it was under the Taliban and Iraq still holds a strong chance to have a positive outcome. Either way, Iraq is likely to be at least a partial, satifactory success and it will affect the entire region. Of course, such things will not be determined for nearly a decade - this is generational. But today, Iraq's internal problems are terrrorism, a ruthless insurgency, corruption, and ethnic and religious rivalries. Its external problem, even greater than the will of Arab regimes, is the global anti-Americanism, that product of failure and jealousy that makes so many leaders and opinion makers impatient to declare Iraq a failure. Those who yearn for an American embarrassment are even more shortsighted than the Bush administration amateurs who put all of their propaganda eggs in the WMD basket. Of course then there is always the protestor who hasn't a clue about what he is protesting so he immerses himself in lies, exxagerations, and confusion. Worse, he'll even dismiss the reality of this world by focusing on an individual act by a miserable abortion clinic bomber in America.

So, the matter of Iraq not being a part of this "War on Terror" is highly erroneous. One may as well claim that Saddam has WMD and he is an "immeidate threat."
 
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Terrorism cannot be annihilated only contained and even if it is contained it will still exist. Terrorism can only be stopped by a strong defense, not a strong offense, since they only need to be successful once.

There have been terrorists since the dawn of man and there always will be terrorists.
 
Gibberish said:
Terrorism cannot be annihilated only contained and even if it is contained it will still exist. Terrorism can only be stopped by a strong defense, not a strong offense, since they only need to be successful once.

There have been terrorists since the dawn of man and there always will be terrorists.
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And? Such statements are very true. But where does that leave us? Shall we dismiss the police force, because crime has always existed and will always exist? Simply rolling over so that the drug dealer may continue his deeds, because his supplier is in a foreign country is not acceptable. Likewise for chasing down terrorists as they continue to be bred from the failing Middle East. We should not resort to petty retaliations upon terrorist attacks while dismissing the regional source.

"Annihilating" religious terrorism is not the goal. Removing the desperation that so many resort to is.
 
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