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Washington Supreme Court Upholds Gay Marriage Ban

Navy Pride said:
I think I must have explained my position a hundred times in this forum but let me just say that if you allow gays to marry you open up a whole bucket of worms with other classes of people defined by choice who would demand the same right...............

It would never work............I do favor civil unions with the same rights married people have........
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I think Civil Unions would be fine. However, most of your fellow conservatives disagree with you on that one.

I personally think the whole gay marriage issue is a ruse.....................Its all about liberals and radical gays trying to get society to accept that the gay lifestyle is a suitable alternative...........

That must and will not ever happen.........
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Actually its about Gays and Lesbians wanting to have the same rights we all do. Just the same, you refer to it as "the gay lifestyle" as though it were some fad. Do you think they choose to be gay?
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
I think Civil Unions would be fine. However, most of your fellow conservatives disagree with you on that one.



Actually its about Gays and Lesbians wanting to have the same rights we all do. Just the same, you refer to it as "the gay lifestyle" as though it were some fad. Do you think they choose to be gay?
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No offense but I believe I know a hell of a lot more Conservatives then you do and the great majority of them would be ok with civil unions but to be honest they are getting tired of the gay marriage issue being jammed down their throats by liberal activist judges and many are changing their minds, even on Civil Unions..........


They have the same rights that I do, they want a special right as do Polygamysts and other classes of people that are defined by choice............... I think the verdict is out on whether they choose to be that way or not........There are many documented cases of gays or lesbians changing their lifestyle getting married and raising a family........Ann Heche a confirmed lesbian comes to mind...............
 
Navy Pride said:
No offense but I believe I know a hell of a lot more Conservatives then you do and the great majority of them would be ok with civil unions but to be honest they are getting tired of the gay marriage issue being jammed down their throats by liberal activist judges and many are changing their minds, even on Civil Unions..........
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:rofl

Navy Pride said:
They have the same rights that I do, they want a special right as do Polygamysts and other classes of people that are defined by choice............... I think the verdict is out on whether they choose to be that way or not........There are many documented cases of gays or lesbians changing their lifestyle getting married and raising a family........Ann Heche a confirmed lesbian comes to mind...............
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I agree, gays have the same rights as everyone else in the country when it comes to marriage, they just want different rights.
 
Navy Pride said:
No offense but I believe I know a hell of a lot more Conservatives then you do and the great majority of them would be ok with civil unions but to be honest they are getting tired of the gay marriage issue being jammed down their throats by liberal activist judges and many are changing their minds, even on Civil Unions..........
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Then why is it that in virtually every state where social conservatives have put a state constitutional amendment on the ballet that banned gay marriage, it also banned civil unions? Why is it that the federal constitutional amendments banning gay marriage also ban civil unions? You are living in a dream world if you think the majority of conservatives would be for Civil Unions. You live up in the Pacific Northwest, what does someone in Oregon or Washington know about conservatives? It is not exactly a haven for conservatism. Down in the South and in the Plains, where most conservatives are, they are not for Civil Unions. They really don't care about the fundamentals of Supply Side Economics, what motivates them to go to the polls and vote Republican are hard core religious right type issues.


There are many documented cases of gays or lesbians changing their lifestyle getting married and raising a family........Ann Heche a confirmed lesbian comes to mind...............
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There is not a single scientific study to support the notion that gays and lesbians can simply choose to be attracted to the opposite sex. It defies common sense as well. For example, I am a breast man. Virtually every woman I dated, and my wife, all had large breasts. Liking large breasts is not some choice I made at puberty. It is simply how I am wired up. Moreover, I could not simply choose to like flat chested chicks more than chicks with large breasts. It is just the way I am. When the good Lord made me, he made a breast man. A gay dude does not just wake up one day and decide he likes dudes, its how they are wired up. Moreover, has it ever occurred to you that Ann Heche was probably just bisexual or something? Half the chicks out there are probably bi to one degree or another.
 
RightOfCenter said:
:rofl


I agree, gays have the same rights as everyone else in the country when it comes to marriage, they just want different rights.
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What is so funny about that.........


Different, special, whatever......:roll:
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Then why is it that in virtually every state where social conservatives have put a state constitutional amendment on the ballet that banned gay marriage, it also banned civil unions? Why is it that the federal constitutional amendments banning gay marriage also ban civil unions? You are living in a dream world if you think the majority of conservatives would be for Civil Unions. You live up in the Pacific Northwest, what does someone in Oregon or Washington know about conservatives? It is not exactly a haven for conservatism. Down in the South and in the Plains, where most conservatives are, they are not for Civil Unions. They really don't care about the fundamentals of Supply Side Economics, what motivates them to go to the polls and vote Republican are hard core religious right type issues.




There is not a single scientific study to support the notion that gays and lesbians can simply choose to be attracted to the opposite sex. It defies common sense as well. For example, I am a breast man. Virtually every woman I dated, and my wife, all had large breasts. Liking large breasts is not some choice I made at puberty. It is simply how I am wired up. Moreover, I could not simply choose to like flat chested chicks more than chicks with large breasts. It is just the way I am. When the good Lord made me, he made a breast man. A gay dude does not just wake up one day and decide he likes dudes, its how they are wired up. Moreover, has it ever occurred to you that Ann Heche was probably just bisexual or something? Half the chicks out there are probably bi to one degree or another.
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Here we go again, another Liberal telling he knows more about Conservatives then I do..........


I personally think that is a ridiculous example but whatever..........

As far as Heche goes she says she was a Lesbian...........You can call her a liar but I won't............There are many documented cases of people giving up the gay lifestyle but you can believe as you want and so can I.........

It even goes both ways.....We had a female Colonel in the Washington National Guard a few years ago divorce her husband of 40 years with 5 grown children and take up the gay lifestyle........

Facts are you or I or no one else knows if they are born that way........There are bias articles by groups with and agenda on both sides of the issue..........
 
The rofl was for your comment about, "jamming gay marriage down our throats". I got a kick out of it but I guess you were just unintenitionally funny...or I just have a weird sense of humor.
 
RightOfCenter said:
The rofl was for your comment about, "jamming gay marriage down our throats". I got a kick out of it but I guess you were just unintenitionally funny...or I just have a weird sense of humor.
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You don't think that is happening and you don't think the liberals and the radical gays have and agenda to have the gay lifestyle accepted by all Americans as a suitable alternate?
 
“Actually its about Gays and Lesbians wanting to have the same rights we all do. Just the same, you refer to it as "the gay lifestyle" as though it were some fad. Do you think they choose to be gay?”
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Yes your right. And guess who else wants rights? The polygamists. Shouldn’t they be allowed to have the same rights as well?

I live in Arizona……I read daily about suits being filed by polygamists to be recognized. They want civil unions.

You going to deny them their rights?

The gay issue might be on the top shelf today, but polygamy is next.
 
I really don't understand why people have such a hard time with gay marriage. Its not that big of a deal. No one will be hurt by it. We're not letting a child and a donkey get married. Its a marriage of two adults that love eachother and sex should not be an issue. The only reason people seem to have a hard time with gay marriage is because 1)they don't understand it and 2)their religion/beliefs get in the way. You anti-gay marriage people should not be allowed to enforce your religion or values down peoples throats just because you say so. You can't have an amendment banning gay marriage! If a priest or a rabbi doesn't want to marry a gay couple they don't have to, but you shouldn't have to enforce it on everyone. People don't just get married in churches, people can get married in a courtroom where everyone is treated equally, right? Since we all know marraige is a gov't regulated thing its not very American to ban some form of it just because some people don't agree with it. If you don't like don't go to the weddings :rofl

Also this whole slippery slope arguement means nothing because polygimasts are not the same!
 
Sir_Alec said:
I really don't understand why people have such a hard time with gay marriage. Its not that big of a deal. No one will be hurt by it. We're not letting a child and a donkey get married. Its a marriage of two adults that love eachother and sex should not be an issue. The only reason people seem to have a hard time with gay marriage is because 1)they don't understand it and 2)their religion/beliefs get in the way. You anti-gay marriage people should not be allowed to enforce your religion or values down peoples throats just because you say so. You can't have an amendment banning gay marriage! If a priest or a rabbi doesn't want to marry a gay couple they don't have to, but you shouldn't have to enforce it on everyone. People don't just get married in churches, people can get married in a courtroom where everyone is treated equally, right? Since we all know marraige is a gov't regulated thing its not very American to ban some form of it just because some people don't agree with it. If you don't like don't go to the weddings :rofl

Also this whole slippery slope arguement means nothing because polygimasts are not the same!
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Perfectly to the point and perfectly correct. The truth as I see it is that the people who are against Gay marriage are really against Gay anything. They use assinine terms like "the Gay liefstyle", they use scare tactics like polygamy or one of my favorites, the sanctity of marriage!

I will keep repeating the key point here:

The Constitution says All Men Are Created Equal and by not permitting millions of Americans to legalize their monogomous relationship the anti-Gay tribe is preventing Americans from being Equal.

I find it amazing that people allow themselves to be protected by Gays in the Military or on a Police Force or Gay Firefighters, Doctors and Nurses...that's not a problem...but "GOD" forbid they want to get married!

I also love how the anti-gay homophobes actually "blame" Gay Americans for making Gay marriage an issue! As if they don't even have the right to stand up for what they believe in! Just read some of the recent posts and you'll see forum members who attack Gays and Liberals for "shoving it down our throats" (Gay marriage issue) or that if we allow American Gays to have the same monogomous marriage rights as the "hate Gay marriage" team that people will want to marry eight others at the same time including their family members and that would be the end of America!

What a bunch of nasty hate-filled discriminators they are! They even have the nerve to suggest that those of us that defend Gay marriage are the one's spewing "hate" by calling those who will not permit Americans equal rights hate mongers! Think about that? We're calling out all of those who will not allow two Americans to marry simply because they're of the same sex and "we" are the hate mongers!

I would love to know how defending someones rights equates to promoting hate?
 
Sir_Alec said:
I really don't understand why people have such a hard time with gay marriage. Its not that big of a deal. No one will be hurt by it. We're not letting a child and a donkey get married. Its a marriage of two adults that love eachother and sex should not be an issue. The only reason people seem to have a hard time with gay marriage is because 1)they don't understand it and 2)their religion/beliefs get in the way. You anti-gay marriage people should not be allowed to enforce your religion or values down peoples throats just because you say so. You can't have an amendment banning gay marriage! If a priest or a rabbi doesn't want to marry a gay couple they don't have to, but you shouldn't have to enforce it on everyone. People don't just get married in churches, people can get married in a courtroom where everyone is treated equally, right? Since we all know marraige is a gov't regulated thing its not very American to ban some form of it just because some people don't agree with it. If you don't like don't go to the weddings :rofl

Also this whole slippery slope arguement means nothing because polygimasts are not the same!
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Why couldn't polygamists use the very same argument you used? Certainly people who are against polygamy are against it because it goes against their morals or perhaps because they fear what they don't understand. Either way there is really nothing to suggest that polygamy is any more or less immoral than homosexuality.

I think the "equality" argument is weak in respect to gay marriage as there is no inequality. Gay men are free to marry any woman that would have them just as a hetero man is and likewise with lesbians who are free to marry any man that would have them as hetero woman are. So definitely "gay marriage" is a request that additional rights be granted. Thus anyone, regardless of gender, could marry anyone else. Polygamy would be the same....a request for additional rights that allow one to marry more than one.

While I personally don't have a problem with same sex marriage and absolutely can't come up with one good reason why it should not be allowed I don't agree that not allowing it violates any equality rights.
 
[Qtalloulou]Why couldn't polygamists use the very same argument you used?UOTE= Certainly people who are against polygamy are against it because it goes against their morals or perhaps because they fear what they don't understand. Either way there is really nothing to suggest that polygamy is any more or less immoral than homosexuality.

I think the "equality" argument is weak in respect to gay marriage as there is no inequality. Gay men are free to marry any woman that would have them just as a hetero man is and likewise with lesbians who are free to marry any man that would have them as hetero woman are. So definitely "gay marriage" is a request that additional rights be granted. Thus anyone, regardless of gender, could marry anyone else. Polygamy would be the same....a request for additional rights that allow one to marry more than one.

While I personally don't have a problem with same sex marriage and absolutely can't come up with one good reason why it should not be allowed I don't agree that not allowing it violates any equality rights.[/QUOTE]


They could as well as many other classes of people who are defined by choice....
 
talloulou said:
Why couldn't polygamists use the very same argument you used? Certainly people who are against polygamy are against it because it goes against their morals or perhaps because they fear what they don't understand. Either way there is really nothing to suggest that polygamy is any more or less immoral than homosexuality.

I think the "equality" argument is weak in respect to gay marriage as there is no inequality. Gay men are free to marry any woman that would have them just as a hetero man is and likewise with lesbians who are free to marry any man that would have them as hetero woman are. So definitely "gay marriage" is a request that additional rights be granted. Thus anyone, regardless of gender, could marry anyone else. Polygamy would be the same....a request for additional rights that allow one to marry more than one.

While I personally don't have a problem with same sex marriage and absolutely can't come up with one good reason why it should not be allowed I don't agree that not allowing it violates any equality rights.
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The difference in polygamists is that they choose to have multiple wives or husbands. It is very different from two people who love eachother and do not choose to be that way. The definition of marriage does not have to be written out for two people. It should not matter what sex you are when it comes to a governemt regulated thing like marriage.

As for "Gay men are free to marry any woman that would have them just as a hetero man is and likewise with lesbians who are free to marry any man", do you think a homosesual wants to marry the opposite sex? Do you understand what a relationship is? Unless you're bisexual, homosexuals are not going to want to marry the opposite sex very often.
 
Navy Pride said:
They could as well as many other classes of people who are defined by choice....
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No, because homosexuals don't choose anything. I'd like to see you prove that one Navy Pride because it seems as if you have no understanding of what homosexuality is. The more you complain about 'the gay lifestyle' being shoved down your throat the more you prove your ignorance because you have no idea what 'the gay lifestyle' even is.
 
Navy Pride said:
My hat is off to the Washington Supreme Court...They upheld the will of the people in that the people voted in a referenedum for the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA). This has to be a crushing defeat for the proponents of gay marriage because Washington is one of the most liberal states in the union with a very liberal supreme court......They left in the the hands of the legislature where it belongs unlike the activist judges in Mass.......

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,205743,00.html


Wednesday, July 26, 2006


OLYMPIA, Wash. — The state Supreme Court upheld a ban on gay marriage Wednesday, saying lawmakers have the power to restrict marriage to unions between a man and woman.

The 5-4 decision disappointed gay marriage advocates and left Massachusetts as the only state that grants full marriage rights to gay couples.
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SCOTUS will overturn it in time. Wait and see.
 
Sir_Alec said:
The difference in polygamists is that they choose to have multiple wives or husbands. It is very different from two people who love eachother and do not choose to be that way. The definition of marriage does not have to be written out for two people. It should not matter what sex you are when it comes to a governemt regulated thing like marriage.
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Well that's your argument. Plenty of others would argue the government shouldn't tell them how many significant others they can have. Just visit Utah and you will see tons of people who believe they should be allowed as many wives as they want.

I do agree that you can change marriage to allow for same sex marriages without necessarily allowing polygamy. But changing the institution of marriage does open the door to further changes and makes it harder to argue that marriage is defined. If marriage is a man and woman only case closed then all other possibilities are easily rejected. However if we open up the definition that opens up more than one possibility. All the arguments for why a man may marry a man further the arguments for the mormon who wants 5 wives and 19 children all on welfare.

As for "Gay men are free to marry any woman that would have them just as a hetero man is and likewise with lesbians who are free to marry any man", do you think a homosesual wants to marry the opposite sex? Do you understand what a relationship is? Unless you're bisexual, homosexuals are not going to want to marry the opposite sex very often.
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Yeah I get that. But they are still asking for an "extra right." Just as a man who wanted to marry a child bride would be asking for an extra right. Here in the US a man who wanted to marry an underage girl would be a sicko or a pedophile. But in other geographic locations his request might be downright ordinary and not break any laws at all.

Basically societies draw lines and we don't all draw them in the same place. I think same sex marriages should be allowed. And I think they should be allowed because I can't think of one good reason why they shouldn't be. But some of the arguments used for why they should be allowed are easily dismissed as nonsense. The inequality argument is silly.

Imagine smokers....one smokes cigs the other pot. The pot smoker thinks since smoking is legal his smoking pot should be legal. He can come up with millions of reasons why smoking pot should be legal however if he said the law was unfair because people who want to smoke cigs can and he doesn't want to smoke cigs he wants to smoke pot.....people would laugh.
 
talloulou said:
Why couldn't polygamists use the very same argument you used? Certainly people who are against polygamy are against it because it goes against their morals or perhaps because they fear what they don't understand. Either way there is really nothing to suggest that polygamy is any more or less immoral than homosexuality.....
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Polygamy is a choice, plain and simple. You would be hard pressed to find a psychologist in America who would claim homosexuality is a choice. Therefore, I cannot see how someone could reasonably compare the two.
 
Sir_Alec said:
The difference in polygamists is that they choose to have multiple wives or husbands. It is very different from two people who love eachother and do not choose to be that way. The definition of marriage does not have to be written out for two people. It should not matter what sex you are when it comes to a governemt regulated thing like marriage.

As for "Gay men are free to marry any woman that would have them just as a hetero man is and likewise with lesbians who are free to marry any man", do you think a homosesual wants to marry the opposite sex? Do you understand what a relationship is? Unless you're bisexual, homosexuals are not going to want to marry the opposite sex very often.
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I disagree, we have this thing called the constitution and the 14th amendment and the equal protection clause....If you change the law for gays you have to give the same protection to any other class of people who request it................
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Polygamy is a choice, plain and simple. You would be hard pressed to find a psychologist in America who would claim homosexuality is a choice. Therefore, I cannot see how someone could reasonably compare the two.
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So falling in love with more than 1 person and desiring to be in a relationship with more than one person is a choice?

Granted the men down in Utah who measure their wealth by the number of wives they have are making a choice. However the threesome that all sloppily fell in love with each other.....I'm sure they'll argue there was no choice. You can't help who you fall in love with. So if a woman is in love with two men and they all want to live together you can bet your arse they'll argue there was no "choice". And what if a bisexual person actually needs a male and a female relationship simultaneously to feel complete....is that then a choice? Or are these people easily dismissed for being too selfish and asking too much?
 
talloulou said:
Well that's your argument. Plenty of others would argue the government shouldn't tell them how many significant others they can have. Just visit Utah and you will see tons of people who believe they should be allowed as many wives as they want.

I do agree that you can change marriage to allow for same sex marriages without necessarily allowing polygamy. But changing the institution of marriage does open the door to further changes and makes it harder to argue that marriage is defined. If marriage is a man and woman only case closed then all other possibilities are easily rejected. However if we open up the definition that opens up more than one possibility. All the arguments for why a man may marry a man further the arguments for the mormon who wants 5 wives and 19 children all on welfare.

Yeah I get that. But they are still asking for an "extra right." Just as a man who wanted to marry a child bride would be asking for an extra right. Here in the US a man who wanted to marry an underage girl would be a sicko or a pedophile. But in other geographic locations his request might be downright ordinary and not break any laws at all.

Basically societies draw lines and we don't all draw them in the same place. I think same sex marriages should be allowed. And I think they should be allowed because I can't think of one good reason why they shouldn't be. But some of the arguments used for why they should be allowed are easily dismissed as nonsense. The inequality argument is silly.

Imagine smokers....one smokes cigs the other pot. The pot smoker thinks since smoking is legal his smoking pot should be legal. He can come up with millions of reasons why smoking pot should be legal however if he said the law was unfair because people who want to smoke cigs can and he doesn't want to smoke cigs he wants to smoke pot.....people would laugh.
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Yes, yes, yes but were talking about two adults here, not a child and and adult, and not several adults. Why should two adults that love eachother not be allowed to be married? I can understand why many adults might want to marry, but a child and an adult is just not right. In todays society homosexuality is accepted and not in an 'alternative lifestyle way' but as something some people just are and theres no way to change it. Why not allow two people who have a legal relationship to get married? Because people out there don't understand homosexuality. They look at it like its peadophilia! Only if these people understood how normal it is as opposed to what they see on TV for ****s sake. The reason I bring up equality is because this is not an issue of sexual perversion but rather an issue of ignorance and mis-understanding.
 
Sir_Alec said:
No, because homosexuals don't choose anything. I'd like to see you prove that one Navy Pride because it seems as if you have no understanding of what homosexuality is. The more you complain about 'the gay lifestyle' being shoved down your throat the more you prove your ignorance because you have no idea what 'the gay lifestyle' even is.
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I am sorry but that is very debateable...........There are a lot of people in this country wo believe otherwise.........Truth be told no one knows for sure.........
 
Sir_Alec said:
Yes, yes, yes but were talking about two adults here, not a child and and adult, and not several adults. Why should two adults that love eachother not be allowed to be married? I can understand why many adults might want to marry, but a child and an adult is just not right. In todays society homosexuality is accepted and not in an 'alternative lifestyle way' but as something some people just are and theres no way to change it. Why not allow two people who have a legal relationship to get married? Because people out there don't understand homosexuality. They look at it like its peadophilia! Only if these people understood how normal it is as opposed to what they see on TV for ****s sake. The reason I bring up equality is because this is not an issue of sexual perversion but rather an issue of ignorance and mis-understanding.
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I think you hit the nail on the head. And when the bolded part of your statement is completely true same sex marriage will become a non-issue. Basically you are asking for marriage to be redefined just like other groups believe it should be redefined. However unlike polygamy or people who believe it's okay for 40 year old man to marry 13 year old girls homosexuality is way more accepted and becoming more so everyday. However "way more accepted" is a long way from completely accepted. There are still huge differences between cities and states regarding homosexuality. There have been many changes and homosexuality is becoming more accepted everyday so it is my belief that in the not to distant future same sex marriage will be a non-issue. However we aren't quite there yet. When same sex marriage is allowed and deemed acceptable it won't be because we have finally decided to right an injustice that pushed inequality on homosexuals so much as that our society just evolved enough that homosexuality is allowed all the way out of the closet and into mainstream society. I expect we will get there in my childrens lifetime if not my own.
 
Navy Pride said:
I am sorry but that is very debateable...........There are a lot of people in this country wo believe otherwise.........Truth be told no one knows for sure.........
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Truth be told you are an ignorant fool who can't read very well. It's only debatable to people like you who have no idea what it's like to be gay. What is odd to me is that you know what it's like to not be gay so just think of how it feels to be the opposite. It's very simple: While there is no proven single gay gene scientists say several genes can trigger it but they all must be triggered together. Proof there are a set of genes that lead to homosexuality: homosexuality traits in animals other than ourselves. Enviroment may be the biggest part of open homosexuality but it is not known exactly what kinds of enviroments do what to whom?

See how easy that was? :rofl
 
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