Smoking ban begins today in Washington, DC!

Deegan said:

NO, it's just turned in to yet another way to extort unreasonable tax, through fines, and is now being used as a reason to invade your privacy. I don't support roadblocks for seat belts, it's certainly not what they are looking for, and seems like a police state to me. I agree with a ticket for not putting a seatbelt on your child, because they don't know enough to do so themselves, but especially in cars with airbags, I think they can do more harm then good. I do wear my seatbelt all the time, it's just a habit, but I don't like what this law has become.

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aps said:

I know what you're saying. To me, if someone wants to be negligent and not wear their seatbelt, let them do it. Trust me, Deegan, a seatbelt can prevent serious injuries. My sister was not wearing a seatbelt when she crashed into a stone wall (she fell asleep at the wheel) and she broke her neck and fractured her knee as a result. At the time, airbags were not being used, but still. She would not have sustained either one of those injuries had she been wearing a seatbelt. She is not paralyzed because of sheer luck. That was in 1985, and I have worn my seatbelt ever since. The change in the law had no impact on me.

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aps said:

I know what you're saying. To me, if someone wants to be negligent and not wear their seatbelt, let them do it. Trust me, Deegan, a seatbelt can prevent serious injuries. My sister was not wearing a seatbelt when she crashed into a stone wall (she fell asleep at the wheel) and she broke her neck and fractured her knee as a result. At the time, airbags were not being used, but still. She would not have sustained either one of those injuries had she been wearing a seatbelt. She is not paralyzed because of sheer luck. That was in 1985, and I have worn my seatbelt ever since. The change in the law had no impact on me.

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cnredd said:

Same...

A friend wasn't wearing one in '97 in an accident and had to get a new hip when he was 24...I started wearing one since then...

In 2001, I was in an accident that broke 11 bones...WITH my seatbelt on...

Without it, you would have never have known the beauty and grace that is cnredd...:2wave:

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aps said:

Wow. 11 bones, cnredd? Are you all healed up now? I want to ask what happened, but if it's painful, you don't have to tell me.

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cnredd said:

I got no problems telling...It was a total idiotic move though...June, 2001...

I live next to a field...Lots of small critters...One jumped out in front of the road, and instead of continuing on, I tried to swerve out of the way...I lost control and hit the curb...

I don't remember hitting the tree...and there were no skidmarks, so we are under the assumption that when I hit the curb, my face hit the steering wheel and knocked me out(no airbags)...I never saw the aftermath of the car later on, but I was told that I hit the tree so hard, the headlights were almost touching each other on the other side of the tree...my car looked like a scorpion...

When I woke up...my head on the driverside window...The first thing I noticed was that I was missing teeth...I looked over to my right side and the engine was sitting next to me...a foot or two over and that's the end of me...

I tried to get my seatbelt off...I lifted my right arm...Everything from my elbow up moved...the rest of my arm didn't...

That was when I panicked...I took the seatbelt off with my other arm, opened the door, and fell out...Looking down, I kinda noticed that my right foot was...what's that word?...oh yeah...backward...

Here's the good part...Really shows what you can do when you need to...

I got up on my good foot(James Brown!), and proceeding to WALK to my friend's house...while keeping my arm from dangling like a dead branch...

I knocked(guess which arm?), and refused to sit down on the couch until he got a towel...really weird that I still had the gumption to do that...

I sat down while he called the ambulance...When they showed up(One of them was a past neighbor...small world), I actually walked down the steps to save time getting into the stretcher...I got into the ambulance...

And that was that...

I woke up 9 days later from a coma...They said that the last few days they decided to keep me in a coma so my body could heal without me going through more hell, so I don't know how long the legit coma was...

While in the hospital, my lungs went haywire...I ended up contracting pneumonia, and it was so bad that I was intibated for a couple of weeks...No talking, drinking, or eating...NOT FUN...My best friend gave me a chart with the alphabet and numbers and a stick so I could use my left hand to point to letters and communicate...

The stats?...8 broken bones in my face...put back together with titanium plates and screws...Two rods in my right arm...both were snapped...The only thing keeping the arm intact was muscle and skin...And a pin in my right ankle...It was, as the doctors said, "detached"...2 teeth missing, 2 almost missing, and two chipped...Did I mention I lost my glasses?...:doh

I spent three weeks at that one hospital, then moved to another one for a week of therapy...Had to learn how to use my arm again...

My best friend has a house which is all on one floor, and I was going to be in a wheelchair for another month, so I lived there...

End result?...

Uneven sidewalks kill my ankle, like most people, but otherwise normal...

My arm itself is normal, but I have nerve damage in my right hand...Ulnar Nerve Hand Claw...My ring finger and pinkie are about 70%, with "pins and needles" running through them 24/7...for the rest of my friggin' life...The only time it feels ok is when I'm not thinking about it...

Scars above and below both my eyes...without glasses on I look like a raccoon ...nerve damage above my upper lip and right temple..."pins and needles"...see above...6 new front teeth all on the top...canine to canine...

I'm should sue my plastic surgeon...I'm gonna go up to the judge and say, "Your honor...I look like ME!"...The judge'll say, "Pay the man."..

There...Is that enough info for ya?...:2wave:

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aps said:

I am elated! I was sure that Congress would shoot this down, so I hadn't kept up this this issue since the DC Council passed the ban. (The DC Council passed it, but Congress has to approve it). This means that there will be no more smoking in restaurants anymore (except outside)--even in the bar area. Bars (that are just bars and not in restaurants) and clubs are exempt until January 1, 2007. This is just simply fantastic!

:cheers:

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cnredd said:

There...Is that enough info for ya?...:2wave:

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Deegan said:

I'm glad you pulled through, sounds like some would have not made it through that, God bless.

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aps said:

The story is overwhelming. You must be one, tough m-f'er. I'm just glad you're okay. :bright:

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shuamort said:

Yes, that's true, BUT, there's a thing to be said about personal responsibility. One takes that upon themselves when entering a bar to imbibe beverages which slowly destroy their livers, and their brain cells, and occasionally their dignity.

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George_Washington said:

Yeah but drinking alcohol doesn't immediately affect the people around you. Plus, I heard that you can grow back brain cells by eating certain foods.

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George_Washington said:

Yeah but drinking alcohol doesn't immediately affect the people around you. Plus, I heard that you can grow back brain cells by eating certain foods.

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Deegan said:

Oh really?

I have yet to hear of someone smoking a cigarette, and then get in to a car, and kill a family of five. Or hear of someone smoking a cigarette, and beating their wife. Or smoking a cigarette, and starting a fight, a fight that results in injury or death.

I would rethink that response, it's naive, and ignorant to the reality of our situation.:roll:

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Deegan said:

I would rethink that response, it's naive, and ignorant to the reality of our situation.:roll:

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George_Washington said:

Uh, I would say there is nothing naive or ignorant about my response. The vast majority of people who drink don't get behind the wheel of a car and kill people. But second smoke always causes damage to the people around that person. The two items in question are very different in their very context. You can't deny evidence and statistics based on a hypothetical situation that doesn't even begin to disprove those statistics.

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George_Washington said:

Uh, I would say there is nothing naive or ignorant about my response. The vast majority of people who drink don't get behind the wheel of a car and kill people. But second smoke always causes damage to the people around that person. The two items in question are very different in their very context. You can't deny evidence and statistics based on a hypothetical situation that doesn't even begin to disprove those statistics.

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Deegan said:

Please, share with us all this evidence that "second hand smoke always causes damage to people around them"

I would certainly be interested in this evidence, can you, or anyone you know, name someone who died of second hand smoke?

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aps said:

Oh, I am positive there are people out there who have died of second-hand smoke. I'll look up that information and provide it...but later. I am heading out to dinner with a friend.

I will say that my co-worker had a heart attack and they linked to his wife's chain smoking. The doctors and my co-worker begged her to quit. She refused. She died a couple of years later from lung cancer. My co-worker doctor has said that his health has improved substantially since he was no longer surrounded by smoke.

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Deegan said:

That's hardly proof of anything, but even if it was true, you know one person. I can list five people I know who have died from alcohol related deaths, just as I am sure many can. Do we ban that next in public, because of these threats? As I said, as long as it's legal, it should be allowed in private places, I am all for public buildings, even dining halls, but bars, that is an infringement on my rights.

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George_Washington said:

lol What the hell is that? A sex restaurant? You mean live sex shows? Watching people have sex on stage though is different than just letting anybody go at it all over the tables and counters...

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Deegan said:

That's hardly proof of anything, but even if it was true, you know one person. I can list five people I know who have died from alcohol related deaths, just as I am sure many can. Do we ban that next in public, because of these threats? As I said, as long as it's legal, it should be allowed in private places, I am all for public buildings, even dining halls, but bars, that is an infringement on my rights.

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Facts You Should Know About Second Hand Smoke
Passive Smoking is Dangerous

Second hand smoke is a toxic cocktail consisting of poisons and carcinogens. There are over 4000 chemical compounds in second hand smoke; 200 of which are known to be poisonous, and upwards of 60 have been identified as carcinogens.

When a cigarette is smoked, about half of the smoke is inhaled/exhaled (mainstream smoke) by the smoker and the other half floats around in the air(sidestream smoke).

Environmental tobacco smoke(ETS) plays a part in more health problems than you might realize. The following facts point out why it is so important to have smoking bans in place. No one should be forced to breathe in air tainted with cigarette smoke.


http://quitsmoking.about.com/cs/secondhandsmoke/a/secondhandsmoke.htm

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Secondhand Smoke Fact Sheet
March 2006

Secondhand smoke, also know as environmental tobacco smoke, is a mixture of the smoke given off by the burning end of a cigarette, pipe or cigar and the smoke exhaled from the lungs of smokers. It is involuntarily inhaled by nonsmokers, lingers in the air hours after cigarettes have been extinguished and can cause or exacerbate a wide range of adverse health effects, including cancer, respiratory infections, and asthma.

Secondhand smoke has been classified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as a known cause of cancer in humans (Group A carcinogen).
Secondhand smoke causes approximately 3,000 lung cancer deaths and 35,000-62,000 heart disease deaths in adult nonsmokers in the United States each year.

A study found that nonsmokers exposed to environmental smoke were 25 percent more likely to have coronary heart diseases compared to nonsmokers not exposed to smoke. . . .

http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422

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There are about 388 deaths attributable to second-hand smoke (“passive smoking”) in New Zealand each year according to a report prepared for the Ministry of Health in September 2000. This represents an additional 8 percent over and above deaths due to direct smoking. The estimated figure of 388 deaths per year attributable to second-hand smoke represents about three-quarters of the number of people killed each year on the roads in New Zealand in recent years.

http://www.nzhis.govt.nz/publications/drugs.html

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Exposure to second-hand smoke – passive smoking or Environmental Tobacco Smoke (ETS) – is associated with:

- Acute respiratory illness in early childhood
- Chronic cough, phlegm, and wheeze in children
- Chronic middle ear effusions in children
- Reduced levels and growth of lung function in children
- Increased risk of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS)
- Increased bronchial hyper-responsiveness in asthmatics
- Increased lung symptoms in asthmatics
- Decreased lung function in asthmatics
- Irritation to the eyes, nose, throat
- Increased risk of lung cancer and heart disease with long-term exposure

Source: Pechacek TF, Babb S.
How acute and reversible are the cardiovascular risks of second-hand smoke?
[British Medical Journal 2004]

http://www.clearingtheairscotland.com/facts/facts.html

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Second-hand smoke irritates the eyes and delicate tissue in the throat, nose, and lungs. Nonsmokers, who are generally more sensitive to the toxic effects of tobacco smoke than smokers, may experience headaches, sore throat, nausea, and dizziness. Second-hand smoke places extra stress on the heart and affects the body's ability to take in and use oxygen.

Second-hand smoke increases the risk of death from heart disease by 20 to 30 per cent for nonsmokers married to smokers.

Second-hand smoke is the third largest cause of lung cancer, after direct smoking and occupational exposure to other hazardous substances. Up to one-quarter of lung cancer deaths in nonsmokers are related to secondhand smoke.

http://www.gov.ns.ca/ohp/tcu/second-hand.htm#1

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Smoking is one of the staples of a bar. If people don't like the smoking, then they can go to a non-smoking bar, which is usually some high class yuppie establishment.

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GarzaUK said:

The main reason is to get people healthier.

In the Republic of Ireland where it is banned. People quitting smoking has happened at a faster rate. The ban has encouraged people to quit smoking and surely that is a good thing.



I could say to you the opposite "If you like smoking so much it really shouldn't be a problem for you to smoke it in fresh air. Goodness knows smokers need it.

I find it funny that smokers refuse to inconvience themselves to walk out (maybe 20 yards) out of a building, but they rather endanger the lives of their friends and collegues. Are you really that lazy and uncaring??

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aps said:

Garza, I wanna hang out with you. :cheers:

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