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Road to 270: CNN's latest electoral college map (1 Viewer)

1992 was a long time ago, if some don't believe the numbers, that's life. The problem with Trump is a lot of folks view him as a Democrat running as a Republican. An opportunist who take advantage of a 17 candidate field. Personally, I think the Republicans blew it when they nominated Trump. He was about the only candidate that could lose to Hillary. The polls during the primary in head to head match ups prove it. Or at least lets us know who would be leading whom at that time. Not now. Actually, I am surprised to see Trump as close as he is. Especially with his foot and mouth disease and Trump acting more like a 5th grade schoolyard bully than a presidential candidate.

Perhaps he has been persuaded to act more presidential by his advisors. He has been doing that for the last week or two. It also has paid off as he has narrowed Clinton's lead. But he still hasn't unified the Republican Party and seems unwilling to do so. Could it be grudges that he still holds, some of those whom he created feuds with sure do.

What is interesting when going over the numbers, using RCP averages is Trump is only getting 78% of the Republican base vote. Romney received 93% back in 2012 and still lost. But of those 22% not supporting Trump, 9% are going to Gary Johnson and Jill Stein is getting 1%. Clinton is receiving 6% of the Republican base vote, the same identical percentage Obama received in 2012. So the anti-Trump Republicans are not going for Clinton even though some very high profile Republicans have stated they will vote for her. The rest state they will not vote or undecided.

But Clinton also has her problems with her base vote. With both candidates having huge problems with their base, it is no wonder both are stuck at 40% or a point or two above. She is also receiving 78% of the Democratic base vote, but she has a larger base than the Republicans. Johnson is getting 6% and Stein 5% of the Democratic base vote. Trump is getting 4%. Clinton has a problem with young voters between 18 to 30. I would guess, most were Sanders supporters. Clinton is getting 40% of the young 18-30 to Trump's 28%, Obama won this age group 62-38%. Although Trump is ten points behind Romney's showing back in 2012, Clinton is a whopping 22 points behind Obama. Johnson is getting 18% of these young voters and Stein 8%, the rest are either won't vote or undecided.

This is a unique election, neither candidate is approaching the historical averages one would expect the two major party's candidate to receive. This is because of both candidate high dislike factor among the American public as a whole. Romney won the white vote 59-39 in 2012, Trump leads Clinton among whites 46-31, Johnson is getting 11% of the white vote, Stein 3%. Obama had an 82-16 advantage among non-whites, he received 93% of the black vote, 71% of the Hispanic vote and 73% of the Asian vote. Clinton is leading among non-whites 66-15 with Johnson getting 6% and Stein 3%. Surprisingly, Trump's 15% is right there with what Romney received among non-whites back in 2012, it is Clinton who is having a problem of matching Obama's 82%.

So what does all of this mean? It means neither major party candidate is going to meet historical averages of most other major party candidates. But in an election this unique, again I point to the dislike factor, neither one needs to to win. Clinton still has the advantage only because the Democrats have a larger base vote, so Trump must attract independents and third party voters more than he is doing now. The question is how and can he do it?

<<< 1992 was a long time ago, if some don't believe the numbers, that's life. >>>

I'm talking about what caused the numbers. Perot constantly ranted about the current (Bush senior) government being fiscally irresponsible. That message stuck with a lot of voters, and the liberal media being what they are, pushed that narrative hard to try to kick the Republican out of office. It worked, because a glib talking unknown from Arkansas won.
 
1992 was a long time ago, if some don't believe the numbers, that's life. The problem with Trump is a lot of folks view him as a Democrat running as a Republican. An opportunist who take advantage of a 17 candidate field. Personally, I think the Republicans blew it when they nominated Trump. He was about the only candidate that could lose to Hillary. The polls during the primary in head to head match ups prove it. Or at least lets us know who would be leading whom at that time. Not now. Actually, I am surprised to see Trump as close as he is. Especially with his foot and mouth disease and Trump acting more like a 5th grade schoolyard bully than a presidential candidate.

Perhaps he has been persuaded to act more presidential by his advisors. He has been doing that for the last week or two. It also has paid off as he has narrowed Clinton's lead. But he still hasn't unified the Republican Party and seems unwilling to do so. Could it be grudges that he still holds, some of those whom he created feuds with sure do.

What is interesting when going over the numbers, using RCP averages is Trump is only getting 78% of the Republican base vote. Romney received 93% back in 2012 and still lost. But of those 22% not supporting Trump, 9% are going to Gary Johnson and Jill Stein is getting 1%. Clinton is receiving 6% of the Republican base vote, the same identical percentage Obama received in 2012. So the anti-Trump Republicans are not going for Clinton even though some very high profile Republicans have stated they will vote for her. The rest state they will not vote or undecided.

But Clinton also has her problems with her base vote. With both candidates having huge problems with their base, it is no wonder both are stuck at 40% or a point or two above. She is also receiving 78% of the Democratic base vote, but she has a larger base than the Republicans. Johnson is getting 6% and Stein 5% of the Democratic base vote. Trump is getting 4%. Clinton has a problem with young voters between 18 to 30. I would guess, most were Sanders supporters. Clinton is getting 40% of the young 18-30 to Trump's 28%, Obama won this age group 62-38%. Although Trump is ten points behind Romney's showing back in 2012, Clinton is a whopping 22 points behind Obama. Johnson is getting 18% of these young voters and Stein 8%, the rest are either won't vote or undecided.

This is a unique election, neither candidate is approaching the historical averages one would expect the two major party's candidate to receive. This is because of both candidate high dislike factor among the American public as a whole. Romney won the white vote 59-39 in 2012, Trump leads Clinton among whites 46-31, Johnson is getting 11% of the white vote, Stein 3%. Obama had an 82-16 advantage among non-whites, he received 93% of the black vote, 71% of the Hispanic vote and 73% of the Asian vote. Clinton is leading among non-whites 66-15 with Johnson getting 6% and Stein 3%. Surprisingly, Trump's 15% is right there with what Romney received among non-whites back in 2012, it is Clinton who is having a problem of matching Obama's 82%.

So what does all of this mean? It means neither major party candidate is going to meet historical averages of most other major party candidates. But in an election this unique, again I point to the dislike factor, neither one needs to to win. Clinton still has the advantage only because the Democrats have a larger base vote, so Trump must attract independents and third party voters more than he is doing now. The question is how and can he do it?

<<< using RCP averages is Trump is only getting 78% of the Republican base vote.>>>

I think that could be an older number. Around a week ago on Fox they stated it was closing in on 90%
 
I think Trump is going to surprise a lot of people with the percentage he gets of the black vote. The vast majority of black people, are good people, it's the 1%, gang bangers, drug dealers, rioters, etc who are the problem. Trump will take care of that 1% problem for the most part and that resonates with a lot of good folks out there who are tired of uncaring Democrat politicians running our big cities who do nothing for black people because they take their votes for granted.
 
<<< 1992 was a long time ago, if some don't believe the numbers, that's life. >>>

I'm talking about what caused the numbers. Perot constantly ranted about the current (Bush senior) government being fiscally irresponsible. That message stuck with a lot of voters, and the liberal media being what they are, pushed that narrative hard to try to kick the Republican out of office. It worked, because a glib talking unknown from Arkansas won.

Bush the elder was fiscally irresponsible. He added 1.5 trillion to the national debt in four years. Back then that was a huge amount. He also backed tracked on his pledge of no new taxes. Besides, Bill Clinton ended up being a fairly good president, although I never voted for him. I voted for Perot twice. Bill ended up within 17 billion dollars of a balanced budget and came that close to having the first surplus where the debt goes down since Eisenhower.
 
Bush the elder was fiscally irresponsible. He added 1.5 trillion to the national debt in four years. Back then that was a huge amount. He also backed tracked on his pledge of no new taxes. Besides, Bill Clinton ended up being a fairly good president, although I never voted for him. I voted for Perot twice. Bill ended up within 17 billion dollars of a balanced budget and came that close to having the first surplus where the debt goes down since Eisenhower.

<<< He also backed tracked on his pledge of no new taxes. >>>

Good point - I had forgotten about that one.

BTW, Newt Gingrich and the Republicans "forced" Clinton to balance the budget.
 
<<< He also backed tracked on his pledge of no new taxes. >>>

Good point - I had forgotten about that one.

BTW, Newt Gingrich and the Republicans "forced" Clinton to balance the budget.

It took both. Unknown to most Gingrich and Bill Clinton had a good working relationship. When Hastert took over that ruin that. A lot of folks forget Bill was a conservative Democrat, he established the DLC, a Democratic conservative organization. Also there wasn't all this polarization going on back in the 1990's. Clinton was lucky to have first Dole and Mitchel as the leaders of the senate and then Lott and Daschel as they also worked together fairly well. Nothing like Reid and McConnell and the polarization they created. Different eras.
 
It took both. Unknown to most Gingrich and Bill Clinton had a good working relationship. When Hastert took over that ruin that. A lot of folks forget Bill was a conservative Democrat, he established the DLC, a Democratic conservative organization. Also there wasn't all this polarization going on back in the 1990's. Clinton was lucky to have first Dole and Mitchel as the leaders of the senate and then Lott and Daschel as they also worked together fairly well. Nothing like Reid and McConnell and the polarization they created. Different eras.

Hillary for sure is much far left of anything Bill Clinton ever was.

No such thing as a conservative Democrat any longer - they don't exist, at least not on a national level.
 
Hillary for sure is much far left of anything Bill Clinton ever was.

No such thing as a conservative Democrat any longer - they don't exist, at least not on a national level.

Joe Manchin comes to mind. I'm sure there are others in House. Not many. Most are either retired or dead.
 
The debates should put that to rest. Sure there will be plenty of goons who think insults, childish tirades and the like are impressve, but don't hold out too much hope for Trump getting through it without losing ground. his intelligence is very overstated.

I am not sure.
I think the division in this country is so polarized that it does not matter who wins the debate.
Or maybe you are right in that the undecideds (oh so few of them) will decide.
But in the long stretch Hillary will win simply because of (hate to use this term) her ground game.

Have any of you ever volunteered in a presidential election?
Who guided you?
Who was your boss?
Who called you and told you what to do?
See, you (and I) are volunteers. We do the foot work and the dialing and the driving the voters we want to be sure to vote to the polls.
We go get them as soon as early voting begins... three at a time sometimes.

But slide back to the above paragraph. Who is the "boss"?
Who runs the little strip mall office?
He/she is a "paid" staffer. It is someone who gets money to do this and if they don't do a good job they wont have a job next time.... really. If they fail they are gone.
And this is where Hillary will bust Trump's gonads. She has been prepping this for many years with lots and lots of money which means lots of staff.
So it has been set up for a long time
The Trump campaign has a ground-game problem | PBS NewsHour
Trump needs to be up by two points in every swing state in order to carry that state IMO.
This will not be about polls it will be about preparation.
 
There is always the third party option. Being I detest both Trump and Clinton, that is my option I will take in order to have a say in the down ballot offices. I will not help either attain the White House. Right now both candidates are having huge problems with their base vote for different reasons. Trump made enemies of a lot of Republicans during the primaries with the feuds he created. With Hillary, many young voters consider her a Wall Street shrill and a war monger. She is not far enough left for them.

So we shall see what happens.

You can just vote in the down ballot races and not in the Presidential race. The votes still count in the races you do cast a ballot. In the others, it goes into the NV column. You are essentially voting "Present" in those races in which you do not cast a vote.
 
You can just vote in the down ballot races and not in the Presidential race. The votes still count in the races you do cast a ballot. In the others, it goes into the NV column. You are essentially voting "Present" in those races in which you do not cast a vote.

Actually, I will vote for Johnson. Down here voting via computer if you skip an office once you finish that office you skipped comes back up again stating you failed to vote, please choose a candidate. It does that even when there is only one candidate running. Software I suppose.
 
Actually, I will vote for Johnson. Down here voting via computer if you skip an office once you finish that office you skipped comes back up again stating you failed to vote, please choose a candidate. It does that even when there is only one candidate running. Software I suppose.

Odd that it won't let you not vote at that point once they remind you.
 
There is a built-in assumption on the part of liberals that Hillary is good at debating. Not so much. We'll see about that, but she is not known as a great speaker. She's no Bill Clinton or Obama.

There's a lot more to debating than she ever learned at Yale Law School.
 
Odd that it won't let you not vote at that point once they remind you.

Different states are running different software on the voting machines or computers. We usually have several judges up for re-election or election with only one name. I've gotten into the habit of writing in Gaylord Cumquat whoever he is, if he actually exist. I think it is a waste to have to vote for an office with only one candidate to choose from.
 
Different states are running different software on the voting machines or computers. We usually have several judges up for re-election or election with only one name. I've gotten into the habit of writing in Gaylord Cumquat whoever he is, if he actually exist. I think it is a waste to have to vote for an office with only one candidate to choose from.

I always write-in when someone is running unopposed. Sometimes I do it when they have opponents if I don't know or care to know anything about them. I really don't care who is our local treasurer. It isn't like they do something anyway. I am not sure why that position even exists. They don't even handle money or pay the bills. Those are all done through different offices entirely.
 
I always write-in when someone is running unopposed. Sometimes I do it when they have opponents if I don't know or care to know anything about them. I really don't care who is our local treasurer. It isn't like they do something anyway. I am not sure why that position even exists. They don't even handle money or pay the bills. Those are all done through different offices entirely.

You and me think a lot a like. I hear you.
 
There's a lot more to debating than she ever learned at Yale Law School.

Most of the early polling after the debate, that I saw, showed Trump winning. When Hillary pulled the beauty pageant **** on him, he should have gone right for her throat with the Bill Clinton rapegate stories. If she can overlook multiple sexual rape/liaisons by Bill Clinton, she can overlook a FAT beauty queen.
 
I just hope Mrs Crooked survives the debates. I don't mean beating Trump, she won't do that, but literally physically surviving it all.

Of course her handlers will have her so pumped up with drugs, that it's unlikely she will cough, pass out, or do a number in her Depends. But the strain will exact a terrible toll on her.

Forget for a second about the mental aspect that she is unfit to be president, that can be debatable. But an honest liberal has to admit, that Mrs Crooked is without any doubt, physically unfit to properly be a President of the United States.

OK, Dr. Steve.
 
Most of the early polling after the debate, that I saw, showed Trump winning. When Hillary pulled the beauty pageant **** on him, he should have gone right for her throat with the Bill Clinton rapegate stories. If she can overlook multiple sexual rape/liaisons by Bill Clinton, she can overlook a FAT beauty queen.

The mainstream media will simultaneously say that the Trump beauty pageant issue is imporant while the Hillary attacking her husband's sexual assault victims is not. There's a reason virtually no one believes the MSM anymore.

Has anyone else noticed that Trumps rallies everywhere he goes have been YUGE (thousands) while Hillary goes to the same places and is lucky to get a few hundred to show up? This leads one to believe that Trump would win an honest election. But we don't have honest elections.
 
The mainstream media will simultaneously say that the Trump beauty pageant issue is imporant while the Hillary attacking her husband's sexual assault victims is not. There's a reason virtually no one believes the MSM anymore.

Has anyone else noticed that Trumps rallies everywhere he goes have been YUGE (thousands) while Hillary goes to the same places and is lucky to get a few hundred to show up? This leads one to believe that Trump would win an honest election. But we don't have honest elections.

Where's Jimmy Carter?
 

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