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Erroneous Conclusion: Repubs Need To Kowtow to Law-Breakers

Ontologuy

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Now that Repubs are are doing their post-mortem thing, liberal Dems and their media pimps are doing all they can to bury the Republicans for good: Sean Hannity, John Boehner say GOP should tackle immigration reform | The Ticket - Yahoo! News

Yes, a few emotionally dejected Repubs are making blatantly un-American statements born of situational depression and bargaining in denial of the death of their candidate, that 20 million illegals should be legalized to give the Repubs a chance at winning the White House in the future.

And, of course, liberal Dems and their media pimps, they know that legalization will in reality be a knife through the heart of the Republican Party, so of course they're pushing this, hoping the Repubs won't notice that: 1) it's patently false reasoning, and 2) the liberal Dems and their media pimps want the Repubs to acquiesce to the un-American act of not enforcing the law.

In these two posts I presented the details of the faulty reasoning that acquiescing to kowtowing to illegals will only kill the Republican Party: http://www.debatepolitics.com/2012-us-presidential-election/142118-obama-race-baited-all-american-citizens-now-pay-price-20.html#post1061127195 http://www.debatepolitics.com/2012-us-presidential-election/142118-obama-race-baited-all-american-citizens-now-pay-price-20.html#post1061127543.

Most news articles and Obama himself have used "Hispanic" interchangably with "Latino". Here I will begin using Latino, the article's term, which includes Hispanics from the Americas.

In summary:

Only 10% of those who voted in the election were Latino. Nearly 40% of eligible voters didn't vote. General extrapolation presents that roughly 18% of eligible voters are Latino, and that 40% of them were not motivated to vote racially (or for any other reason). Nearly 30% of Latinos who voted didn't vote for Obama. Of the Latinos who voted for Obama, speculating 75% of them voted for racial reasons, succumbing to Obama's egregious race-baiting, that's an arguably high figure.

But going with that liberal speculation means that still over 72% of all eligible voter Latinos would not vote along racial lines in response to Obama's egregious and erroneous race-baiting pander that all illegals are Latinos and that voting for him was the right thing to do for all Latinos.

Indeed only 18% of Latinos, likely an overestimate, succumbed to Obama's race-bait.

This percentage is closer to the norm among all races. So nothing of major consideration in altering Republican strategies.

However, because 25% of all illegals are not Latino, because illegals are of all races, colors, and creeds, what illegals share in common is simply being illegal. And if illegals are suddenly legalized and become eligible to vote, they will most certainly have a great tendency to vote for the champion party that legalized them and against the party that has thwarted legalization for so long.

And, of course, guess who the champion and the villain parties are: that's right, every illegal knows that the Dems have been trying to get them legalized for years and that the Repubs have thwarted those attempts for years.

So what will happen if Repubs stupidly cave as liberal Dems and their media pimps want them to and acquiesce to legalization for illegals? That's right: intitially an accurately estimated increase in Democrat votes for President and other offices of roughly five million votes overall. :shock:

Considering that the Repubs lost the popular Presidental vote by roughly three million votes, please tell me why the Repubs would ever do anything that will add another five million votes to that deficit?!

Exactly: they won't. :cool:

Despite blatant egregious liberal Dem baiting spread by their media pimps, the Republican braintrust simply won't cave to legalizing illegals, or they will be commiting political suicide as a party.

Once the emotional distraught reactions subside, Republicans will simply come to their rational senses and continue to do the right ethical and moral thing by their fellow American citizens and simply continue to support enforcement of American law in our nation of rule of law.

They will then also realize that the nearly 40% of eligible American voters who didn't vote is a gigantic chunk of millions of voters they simply need to find a way to reach.

Of course, most of these are centrists, and though also greatly opposed to the ludicrous absurd notion of legalizing illegals, some of this 40% are more to the right and were simply unenthusiastic about Romney, and the Repubs could pick up maybe five to six million of these people if they started fielding the right candidates.

But capitulating to legalize illegals? That would be a death sentence to the Republican Party.

Republican Party leaders know this most certainly.

Thus any liberal Dem hopes that Republicans won't see this obvious reality and will instead commit political suicide is simply wishful fantasy.

The right thing to do is to force all 20 million illegals to return to their country of origin.

Then this issue will be a moot point .. and, that will in and of itself end the race-baiting effect, thus returning a number of those so effected to having to actually pay attention to the issues, especially the economic issues as 43% of Americans are still suffering in he wake of The Great Recession ..

.. And that will cause an increase in Republican votes, and a decrease in Democrat votes. :cool:

So give it up liberal Dems -- everyone sees right through your cynical and transparent blatant power-play.
 
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Well, on the plus side it would be more cheap labor.

We would have to make sure it was a well written "labor visa" bill so these people would still know their place. As long as it was written so they got the second class treatment that they deserved, I could support it.
 
Well, on the plus side it would be more cheap labor.

We would have to make sure it was a well written "labor visa" bill so these people would still know their place. As long as it was written so they got the second class treatment that they deserved, I could support it.

Absolutely. I couldn't support any measure that doesn't preserve my right to look down on them and call them names.
 
Well, on the plus side it would be more cheap labor.
Absolutely true.

But, don't forget that: 1) legalizing illegals would go against the constitutionally ordaigned rule of law in America, that laws must be enforced, that illegals, trespassers, identity-forgers, jobs/classroom/other-American-resource stealers are merely law-breaking criminals, nothing more, and that good American justice is blind, does not consider race, color, creed, national origin, economic status, etc. when enforcing the law, and 2) legalizing 20 million illegals will cause wage-scales to plummet, and though business owners will like that, there will be scores of millions of Americans making let's say 2.0+ times miinimum wage in their field who will have to compete with newly legalized illegals who are quite happy with a raise in pay to minimum wage in many cross-industry fields.

No, the result of doing the un-American thing of taking the blindfold off American justice is that a great injustice will be done to scores of millions of American citizens.

That's simply un-American .. and wrong.


We would have to make sure it was a well written "labor visa" bill so these people would still know their place. As long as it was written so they got the second class treatment that they deserved, I could support it.
Sarcasm, humor, ha ha.
 
Absolutely. I couldn't support any measure that doesn't preserve my right to look down on them and call them names.
Sarcasm quickly becomes meaningless when it's clear the sarcastic person doesn't respect justice for American citizens and the rule of law in America.
 
The right thing to do is to force all 20 million illegals to return to their country of origin.
...
So give it up liberal Dems -- everyone sees right through your cynical and transparent blatant power-play.

To me this just reinforces the issue with conservatives. It could have been reasonable to prevent them from entering in the first place. You failed apparently miserably at that, 20M? Were you actively TRYING to import immigrants? Good gods, oops!

Now that they are here, living, paying taxes, roots, pulling all that up and kicking them out...no, not the right thing to do. That you don't get that goes back to the irrationally conservative side. Use an analogy to help yourself. If someone is planning to build a store on the corner, is stopping them at the planning stage the same degre of "right/acceptable" as it would to knowingly let them build it anyway, invest all that time and money, and then swoop in after and raze it to the ground and kick them out? Surely you can admit there is a significant difference.

Of course, you're doubling down..focusing on them to kick them out just alienates you more, because when they do stay, and they will, you are:
1. foolish for not predicting what was fairly obviously happening
2. foolish for doubling-down on it...now that they are here, rather than split 50/50 on party support, they have one party that wants to kick them out of the country and the other that doesn't. Rocket-science, really it is.

The Republican platform, sans all the anti-non-white-male stuff, sometimes still has very appealing policy positions, why not admit that and focus on that, rather than this desire to "whip up the republican base" with abject craziness? I know plenty of people that would vote Republican proudly if they didn't have that hate/relgious/absurd streak so prominently waving around.
 
To me this just reinforces the issue with conservatives. It could have been reasonable to prevent them from entering in the first place. You failed apparently miserably at that, 20M? Were you actively TRYING to import immigrants? Good gods, oops!

Now that they are here, living, paying taxes, roots, pulling all that up and kicking them out...no, not the right thing to do. That you don't get that goes back to the irrationally conservative side. Use an analogy to help yourself. If someone is planning to build a store on the corner, is stopping them at the planning stage the same degre of "right/acceptable" as it would to knowingly let them build it anyway, invest all that time and money, and then swoop in after and raze it to the ground and kick them out? Surely you can admit there is a significant difference.

Of course, you're doubling down..focusing on them to kick them out just alienates you more, because when they do stay, and they will, you are:
1. foolish for not predicting what was fairly obviously happening
2. foolish for doubling-down on it...now that they are here, rather than split 50/50 on party support, they have one party that wants to kick them out of the country and the other that doesn't. Rocket-science, really it is.

The Republican platform, sans all the anti-non-white-male stuff, sometimes still has very appealing policy positions, why not admit that and focus on that, rather than this desire to "whip up the republican base" with abject craziness? I know plenty of people that would vote Republican proudly if they didn't have that hate/relgious/absurd streak so prominently waving around.

The biggest misconception is that all illegals came from south of our border.....not true...we have a lot of foreigners who come here on student and work visas from overseas and then they simply stay once their visas expire.....meanwhile...they were issues SSN so they oculd pay taxes while they worked and uncle Sam does not check for residency/citizenship proof when these people file their tax returns.....expired visas is a big problem but since these people are working an dpaying taxes and contributing to the economy very little is done unless they break a law that will pretty much result in deportation.
 
To me this just reinforces the issue with conservatives. It could have been reasonable to prevent them from entering in the first place. You failed apparently miserably at that, 20M? Were you actively TRYING to import immigrants? Good gods, oops! Now that they are here, living, paying taxes, roots, pulling all that up and kicking them out...no, not the right thing to do. That you don't get that goes back to the irrationally conservative side. Use an analogy to help yourself. If someone is planning to build a store on the corner, is stopping them at the planning stage the same degre of "right/acceptable" as it would to knowingly let them build it anyway, invest all that time and money, and then swoop in after and raze it to the ground and kick them out? Surely you can admit there is a significant difference. Of course, you're doubling down..focusing on them to kick them out just alienates you more, because when they do stay, and they will, you are:
1. foolish for not predicting what was fairly obviously happening
2. foolish for doubling-down on it...now that they are here, rather than split 50/50 on party support, they have one party that wants to kick them out of the country and the other that doesn't. Rocket-science, really it is. The Republican platform, sans all the anti-non-white-male stuff, sometimes still has very appealing policy positions, why not admit that and focus on that, rather than this desire to "whip up the republican base" with abject craziness? I know plenty of people that would vote Republican proudly if they didn't have that hate/relgious/absurd streak so prominently waving around.
Not sure what erroneous and irrelvant things you're rambling about ...

The facts remain, that there are indeed roughly 20 million illegals in America ..

.. That there is no statute of limitations on trespassing, identity-forging, jobs/classroom/other-American resources stealing, that these crimes are in progress and are a violation of good American laws that project the justice of American citizens ..

.. That those who have so stolen from Americans cannot rationally be allowed to be forgiven of their multiple crimes and keep their ill-gotten gains that occurred at the theiving expense of innocent American citizens ..

.. That the Repubs will commit political suicide if they relent in their honorable American efforts to enforce the law against these criminal illegals ..

.. And that that's indeed what liberal Dems and their media pimps want the Repubs to do: commit political suicide.
 
This is the Limbaugh narrative: either the GOP is for deporation or just let millions of illegals in.

What is it with tea baggers: their brains are binary. Could it be that these two Limbaugh fantasies aren't the only options. Forfend!
 
The facts remain, that there are indeed roughly 20 million illegals in America ..

Maybe you missed the part where legislators actually create and destroy laws as their, you know...job.

You do realize blacks use to be slaves, and at some point laws were changed and they were no longer legally slaves right? Could the magical law-fairy also turn 20M illegal immigrants into legally on a path to citizenship, AND turn a frog into a prince at the same time?!?! If yes (sans frog-prince) you have no argument. If no, your issue is not immigration.
 
Maybe you missed the part where legislators actually create and destroy laws as their, you know...job. You do realize blacks use to be slaves, and at some point laws were changed and they were no longer legally slaves right? Could the magical law-fairy also turn 20M illegal immigrants into legally on a path to citizenship, AND turn a frog into a prince at the same time?!?! If yes (sans frog-prince) you have no argument. If no, your issue is not immigration.
I'm sure you probably think you said something profound .. but you didn't.

Existing laws call for the apprehension and prosecution of law-breaking illegals.

These are good laws, not needing any revision of any kind, as they exist to protect American citizens from trespassing, identity-forging, jobs/classroom/other-resource stealing .. and if you think for a moment these aren't real crimes and that American citizens haven't sufferred from these crimes, then you simply do not grasp the foundational sociological realities upon which these obviously good laws were founded.

Your change-for-change-sake presentation is simply meaningless form, and ignores the valid substance of why these laws exist.
 
I'm sure you probably think you said something profound .. but you didn't..
I don't think it was profound, I think it's obvious, its common sense.

We have all sorts of laws on the books that we don't enforce, don't want enforced, and and don't want to enforce. Talking about "existing laws call for apprehension and prosection" is not reflecting reality. Nothing profound about that, it's very mundane and routine.

Again, preventing them from entering carries an enforcement acceptablity that is drastically different than picking up families tomorrow and putting them on a boat.

People keep saying Republicans don't get this and and that's why the lost the immigrant demographic. I can't imagine how they could think that.

I'm well aware of the price society pays for letting streams of people in at the lower income/skill level and something should be done about it. It's not packing up 20M people though and most people I think understand this.
 
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I don't think it was profound, I think it's obvious, its common sense.

We have all sorts of laws on the books that we don't enforce, don't want enforced, and and don't want to enforce. Talking about "existing laws call for apprehension and prosection" is not reflecting reality. Nothing profound about that, it's very mundane and routine.

Again, preventing them from entering carries an enforcement acceptablity that is drastically different than picking up families tomororw and putting them on a boat.

People keep saying Republicans don't get this and and that's why the lost the immigrant demographic. I can't imagine how they could think that.

Maybe because of stuff like this from the tea party.

PIGS AND GUNS AND TEA PARTY IMMIGRATION POLICY - T H E* *L *E* F* T *- *W* I *N* G* **N* O* I* S* E* **M* A* C* H* I* N* E

Proving once again that the only way conservatives know how to address a problem is to shoot somebody, Kansas State Rep. Virgil Peck, proffered that machine-gunning illegal immigrants from helicopters might be the best way to deal with the sunflower state's immigration problems.
 
I don't think it was profound, I think it's obvious, its common sense. We have all sorts of laws on the books that we don't enforce, don't want enforced, and and don't want to enforce. Talking about "existing laws call for apprehension and prosection" is not reflecting reality. Nothing profound about that, it's very mundane and routine. Again, preventing them from entering carries an enforcement acceptablity that is drastically different than picking up families tomorrow and putting them on a boat. People keep saying Republicans don't get this and and that's why the lost the immigrant demographic. I can't imagine how they could think that. I'm well aware of the price society pays for letting streams of people in at the lower income/skill level and something should be done about it. It's not packing up 20M people though and most people I think understand this.
What most people not mentally compromised by left or right -wing ideology understand is that if you stop all government and private services except life-saving emergency services for illegals, crack down hard on reprehensible Americans who hire illegals, crack down on identity forging, stop all talk about amnesty and legalization, emphasize that our good American laws against trespassing, identity-forging, jobs/classroom/other-American-resource stealing will be enforced now and always ... the 20 million illegals will simply leave on their own, quickly, and to their benefit, returning from whence they came.

Though we will deport some, the practical solution is as I just presented.

Regardless, the rule of law in America must be respected. Justice for American citizens wronged and robbed by illegals must be carried out.

This is not a matter for rational conjecture.
 
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