Voting Lines

Is anyone embarrased about the long voting lines?

Maybe after the U.S. has been holding elections awhile they will learn how to do it more efficiently. Of course if you don't live in a swing state the process is much better. But if you live in an area that is up for grabs, and it is urban, look-out.

No one should be more embarrassed than Florida. Maybe they didn't know an election would be happening Nov. 6th 2012?

Maybe they knew things would go so smoothly that they didn't need all of those early voting days.


International Black-Eye: brought to you by your Florida Officials - again. sigh

If I lived in Florida I would vote out the folks that place so little value on me and my time.

rjay said:

Is anyone embarrased about the long voting lines?

Maybe after the U.S. has been holding elections awhile they will learn how to do it more efficiently. Of course if you don't live in a swing state the process is much better. But if you live in an area that is up for grabs, and it is urban, look-out.

No one should be more embarrassed than Florida. Maybe they didn't know an election would be happening Nov. 6th 2012?

Maybe they knew things would go so smoothly that they didn't need all of those early voting days.


International Black-Eye: brought to you by your Florida Officials - again. sigh

If I lived in Florida I would vote out the folks that place so little value on me and my time.

Click to expand...

Florida is a mess courtesy of the republicans, yet another attempt to disenfranchise voters.

I don't get it. Voters are being suppressed because more people are in line to vote?

Republic Now! said:

I don't get it. Voters are being suppressed because more people are in line to vote?

Click to expand...

So it's not suppression? It is merely incompetence? Florida is the one State in the Union that has not yet figured out how to run elections?

It seems they have figured out how to run efficient elections, they just can't seem to do it in areas that expect a high Democratic turnout.

Coincedence? maybe

Republic Now! said:

I don't get it. Voters are being suppressed because more people are in line to vote?

Click to expand...

YES.

Amusement park rides have because demand for the ride is higher than the number of seats available. As the disparity becomes greater the lines become longer. Longer lines means longer waits, longer waits decrease demand. The lines will eventually stabilize at a point where the the demand for the ride is balanced by the the pain of the wait.

Notice that none of this changes how many people ride in a single day. The total number of people that ride on a given day remains fairly constant! The only thing that changes is the number of people who decide that the line is too long and go do something else.

The same thing is true in Florida. The polls were setup in such a way that only a certain number of people could possibly vote in the time allotted. If the polling places were open for 8 hours and the lines ended up being 7 hours long, then roughly twice as many people waited in line to vote than could have possibly voted in the allotted time.

And this doesn't include the number of people who didn't vote because the lines were too long. Even a conservative estimate would mean that the polling stations had less than 1/3 of the amount of machines necessary.

It's simple math. #Voters * Time to cast a Ballot / Time Open = minimum number of voting machines.

Math...

rjay said:

Is anyone embarrased about the long voting lines?

Click to expand...

yes. it's a disgrace.

rjay said:

Maybe after the U.S. has been holding elections awhile they will learn how to do it more efficiently. Of course if you don't live in a swing state the process is much better. But if you live in an area that is up for grabs, and it is urban, look-out.

No one should be more embarrassed than Florida. Maybe they didn't know an election would be happening Nov. 6th 2012?

Maybe they knew things would go so smoothly that they didn't need all of those early voting days.


International Black-Eye: brought to you by your Florida Officials - again. sigh

If I lived in Florida I would vote out the folks that place so little value on me and my time.

Click to expand...

it appears to be at least partially on purpose. this needs to be dealt with at the federal level.

This is ridiculous. 2000 did not teach us anything. I was not for mandated election day protocol but the last 8 years have me starting to change my mind at least as far as national elections go.

Either the states need to get their acts together and support the right to vote or the Feds need to mandate how it should be done.

Maybe after a while the children in the states will learn how to play nice and realize that we are one people

Helix said:

it appears to be at least partially on purpose. this needs to be dealt with at the federal level.

Click to expand...

I have not looked into this much but the little bit I have I got the distinct impression that there is not any Constitutional way to do this directly. Can you explain the Constitutional case for how it can be legislated directly? Or explain the leverage by which it could be successfully influenced by the Federal government, in for an example the way that the legal age for alcohol purchase is set by the States but effectively driven and harmonized by the Federal government?

Republic Now! said:

I don't get it. Voters are being suppressed because more people are in line to vote?

Click to expand...

Yes, there are plenty of reports of people simply giving up because of the lines.

Either you add to the number of polling stations or boxes in the stations or you extend the days/hours to vote. What is being done is to contract the voting hours, restrict the days and in many places lower the number of polling stations and boxes often in the political oppositions strongholds.

PeteEU said:

Yes, there are plenty of reports of people simply giving up because of the lines.

Either you add to the number of polling stations or boxes in the stations or you extend the days/hours to vote. What is being done is to contract the voting hours, restrict the days and in many places lower the number of polling stations and boxes often in the political oppositions strongholds.

Click to expand...

Yes, and there were also a lot of people who, hearing about the long lines, decided not to vote. This was all according to plan. Republicans know that early voting generally favors Democrats. Here in Florida we had very long lines in 2008 when we had 14 early voting days. So what did our Repbulican governor do? He cut the number of early voting days almost in half -- from 14 days to eight days. In addition the Republican legislature passed a law that made ballots much longer, so each individual voter took longer to cast his or her ballot.

Make no mistake: the long lines in Florida were by design.

rjay said:

Is anyone embarrased about the long voting lines?

Maybe after the U.S. has been holding elections awhile they will learn how to do it more efficiently. Of course if you don't live in a swing state the process is much better. But if you live in an area that is up for grabs, and it is urban, look-out.

No one should be more embarrassed than Florida. Maybe they didn't know an election would be happening Nov. 6th 2012?

Maybe they knew things would go so smoothly that they didn't need all of those early voting days.


International Black-Eye: brought to you by your Florida Officials - again. sigh

If I lived in Florida I would vote out the folks that place so little value on me and my time.

Click to expand...

And as I explained, those Liones were no accident.
Of course I see Maggie gave you a 'like' for calling Florida Lines an embarrassment, when I explained WHY they had lines! ! !
Attempted Voter Suppression such as shortening early voting and making the ballot Monstrously long.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/2012-...l-not-because-voter-suppression-attempts.html

Dwight said:

I have not looked into this much but the little bit I have I got the distinct impression that there is not any Constitutional way to do this directly. Can you explain the Constitutional case for how it can be legislated directly? Or explain the leverage by which it could be successfully influenced by the Federal government, in for an example the way that the legal age for alcohol purchase is set by the States but effectively driven and harmonized by the Federal government?

Click to expand...

the 24th amendment reads :

Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.
Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Click to expand...

extended time waiting in line prevents the voter from working, which in many cases will cost the voter hourly wages. this could be interpreted as a poll tax, and congress would have the legislative authority to enact measures that expedite the voting process.

i'm not a lawyer, but if i were, that's the argument that i would use.

another potential argument would involve the necessary and proper clause. federal government, is given an enumerated power of guaranteeing a republican form of government to the states (the Guarantee clause,) and access to voting is certainly a part of the process.

mbig said:

And as I explained, those Liones were no accident.
Of course I see Maggie gave you a 'like' for calling Florida Lines an embarrassment, when I explained WHY they had lines! ! !
Attempted Voter Suppression such as shortening early voting and making the ballot Monstrously long.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/2012-...l-not-because-voter-suppression-attempts.html

Click to expand...

Got it Mr. Big - My original post had some sarcassm in it. I understand fully why the lines. What i do not understand is why there is no general uproar about it.

Maybe I have been fooled by the Movies and the press clippings, but I always thought 'democracy' and 'the right to vote' was something all Americans were for, all the time. Not something some Americans were for, some of the time. I guess it depends on who's 'democracy' and 'right to vote' we are talking about.

rjay said:

Got it Mr. Big - My original post had some sarcassm in it. I understand fully why the lines. What i do not understand is why there is no general uproar about it.

Maybe I have been fooled by the Movies and the press clippings, but I always thought 'democracy' and 'the right to vote' was something all Americans were for, all the time. Not something some Americans were for, some of the time. I guess it depends on who's 'democracy' and 'right to vote' we are talking about.

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:^)
FYI there's no "big" intended in mbig.
It was an acronym/nickname for an Old mb handle murdered_by_islamic_gunmen.
So I may change it to something that is less 'imposing'.

got it

my mistake - I was worried you were a Sex in The City fan

Helix said:

the 24th amendment reads :



extended time waiting in line prevents the voter from working, which in many cases will cost the voter hourly wages. this could be interpreted as a poll tax, and congress would have the legislative authority to enact measures that expedite the voting process.

i'm not a lawyer, but if i were, that's the argument that i would use.

another potential argument would involve the necessary and proper clause. federal government, is given an enumerated power of guaranteeing a republican form of government to the states (the Guarantee clause,) and access to voting is certainly a part of the process.

Click to expand...

Both strike me as rather shaky. I suppose that there have been SCOTUS arguments that successfully connected the dots on what I would think are less.

Helix said:

the 24th amendment reads :



extended time waiting in line prevents the voter from working, which in many cases will cost the voter hourly wages. this could be interpreted as a poll tax, and congress would have the legislative authority to enact measures that expedite the voting process.

i'm not a lawyer, but if i were, that's the argument that i would use.

another potential argument would involve the necessary and proper clause. federal government, is given an enumerated power of guaranteeing a republican form of government to the states (the Guarantee clause,) and access to voting is certainly a part of the process.

Click to expand...

The problem is they did not and in some cases SCOTUS had to.

liblady said:

Florida is a mess courtesy of the republicans, yet another attempt to disenfranchise voters.

Click to expand...

Tell me why only Republicans get the blame for the long lines? I had to wait 2.5 hours to vote myself.

jambalaya said:

Tell me why only Republicans get the blame for the long lines? I had to wait 2.5 hours to vote myself.

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Because they are the cause of the issues in Florida. They reduced the number of early voting days, for one. And the ballot was LONG.

rjay said:

So it's not suppression? It is merely incompetence? Florida is the one State in the Union that has not yet figured out how to run elections?

It seems they have figured out how to run efficient elections, they just can't seem to do it in areas that expect a high Democratic turnout.

Coincedence? maybe

Click to expand...

Uh, what do you do about lines that long?

Yes, there are plenty of reports of people simply giving up because of the lines.

Click to expand...

That's... not vote suppression, that's people not being willing to wait in line.

Either you add to the number of polling stations or boxes in the stations or you extend the days/hours to vote. What is being done is to contract the voting hours, restrict the days and in many places lower the number of polling stations and boxes often in the political oppositions strongholds.

Click to expand...

Uh, America has an election day. We have early voting, but the turnout is always way lower. The early voting lasts on average about two weeks. Election day there are always long lines. I don't see how opening more polling stations would significantly cut an 8 hour line.

The last bit of your paragraph is nonsense.

Yes, and there were also a lot of people who, hearing about the long lines, decided not to vote. This was all according to plan. Republicans know that early voting generally favors Democrats. Here in Florida we had very long lines in 2008 when we had 14 early voting days. So what did our Repbulican governor do? He cut the number of early voting days almost in half -- from 14 days to eight days. In addition the Republican legislature passed a law that made ballots much longer, so each individual voter took longer to cast his or her ballot.

Click to expand...

Yup, Republicans invented lines to screw over those who don't want to wait. We should have the poll operators just vote for you, that would be way more efficient.

Also, how does one legislate to make a ballot longer? Ballots are as long as there are things to vote on.

Finally, election day voting notoriously leans republican. Early voting (which is 10 days according to the link above, not 8) and absentee ballots are largely Democrats. So, by making these long lines and longer ballots, Florida republicans would be hurting themselves.