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Privatizing FEMA Proves Once Again to Be a Bad Idea

IndepCentristMA said:
LMFAO... how has privitizing FEMA proven to be anything, since it hasn't been tried out?
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Privatized means need of profit. So tell us, where's the profit in doing this going to come from?
 
disneydude said:
Seriously....people going to the polls in these states....and every state across the nation should be asking: When faced with a natural disaster WHO WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE SITTING IN THE PRESIDENCY....President Obama/Biden.....or Romney/Ryan (who thinks getting rid of FEMA is a fantastic idea)? The choice should be clear.
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BTW... What most people saw in response to this storm were the actions of the Governor's involved, and Mayor Bloomberg... State and local officials...

Also, Romney handled multiple storms effectively in MA as Governor... including 2 major winters with multiple blizzards in 2003-04, and 2005-06... and major flooding in the Springs of 2004 and 2006...

As well, he went down to Katrina and took several displased residents and brought them to Otis AFB to provide much needed shelter for them.

I think most people generally see Romney as the superior problem solving crisis management player... I wouldn't try and bank on that issue...
 
AdamT said:
Please. That's a silly reductive argument. There are obviously supplies and equipment that are relevant to natural disasters in general and that is what FEMA takes care of in addition to what the states provide for themselves.
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What supplies? What equipment? FEMA shows up with MONEY...taxpayer MONEY!
 
IndepCentristMA said:
BTW... What most people saw in response to this storm were the actions of the Governor's involved, and Mayor Bloomberg... State and local officials...

Also, Romney handled multiple storms effectively in MA as Governor... including 2 major winters with multiple blizzards in 2003-04, and 2005-06... and major flooding in the Springs of 2004 and 2006...

As well, he went down to Katrina and took several displased residents and brought them to Otis AFB to provide much needed shelter for them.

I think most people generally see Romney as the superior problem solving crisis management player... I wouldn't try and bank on that issue...
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I'm more than happy to bank on this issue. Romney thinks getting rid of FEMA is a great idea......I'm sure that a lot of people around the country have a lot of reservations about a candidate that would think that way.....especially in times of threatening or actual natural disasters. We can't have another GWB running this country....and GWB to his credit didn't even advocate for getting rid of FEMA.
 
Verax said:
Maybe we should privatize our entire government too. That would give us the option to outsource our government to China and save a few bucks.
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Can you imagine - waiting for natural disaster relief from Mexico! Or, India!

You are correct. They would outsource every single component they could to maximize profits and boost stock prices. Ever pick-up the phone to call Tech Support for some software you just purchased, only to find out that your Support Engineer is in Bangladesh?

Ring. Ring. Ring.

ACME National Relief: Good Morning, this is ANR how may I help you?

Citizen: There's just been 9.7 earthquake. My front and back porches are gone, my drive way is in my living room and my downstairs kitchen is now upstairs. Can you help me, please?

ACME National Relief: Ok, Sir. I'll be glad to assist you. Can you give me your location, please?

Citizen: You mean you don't know? The whole country has to know about this by now!

ACME National Relief: No, Sir. At ANR, we take incoming calls from many countries around the world regarding disaster relief. Can you please tell me where you are located, Sir?

Citizen: Geepers! I'm in San Luis Obispo, California.

ACME National Relief: Sorry, Sir. I don't find your location in our service area database. It is approximately 5:00pm local time and our Call Center is closing for the day, but we do have an Emergency Call Center - may I please transfer your call to our Emergency Call Center, and maybe they will be able to assist you.

Citizen: Are you serious? Can I speak to your Supervisor!

ACME National Relief: Sorry, Sir. We only operate a Distributed Call Center here, we don't have Supervisors - we actually work from Home. I'm sorry, but I really do need to go. I can transfer your call if you like, Sir.

Citizen: Are you @%$#@% kidding me! My house has been turned upside down and inside out. Our next door neighbor is trapped inside their basement and can't get to a phone and you want to get off the phone because it is quitting time out where you live? This is the last time I deal with a Private Disaster Relief Firm. Yeah, transfer me pal - go ahead and transfer me.

Citizen: Hello? Hello? What the $%$#@%.

ACME National Relief: Hello, Sir? Are you still there? Oh, darn - I must of hit the wrong button. Dial tone ...................................................
--------------------------------------

Yep. Sign me up for that, indeed.
 
BTW....Romney's feelings about the need for FEMA pretty clearly parallel his disdain for 47% of the people of this country. He doesn't care about common people. His answer to them would be....ask your parents to pay for your disaster relief.....I'm too busy giving tax cuts to the wealthy.
 
PW4000 said:


He said that it was "Immoral" to continue federal spending on FEMA. He said that not only would he push Natural Disaster Relief back to the States, but that it would be "Even Better" to push it into the "Private Sector."

The irony of it all is inescapable. In 2008, Candidate Obama, stood in the gap during a financial crisis and provided a calm hand in dealing with an emergency that he did not cause. In 2012, President Obama, stand in the gap once again during a natural disaster crisis to provide that same calm hand at a time of crisis.

I'm seeing a trend here: A steady hand when the country needs it most.

What did the nation get from Romney:

- "Let Detroit Fail"
- It is "Immoral" to continue spending federal tax dollars on natural disaster - we cannot afford it.

"Leadership is the art of guiding, directing and influencing people in such a way, that gains their trust, respect and commitment to achieving a common objective."
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I don't know that much about how FEMA operates; but if it's the Federal Government managing billions, I'd say the states could do a better job on their own -- and provide jobs for the people within their states.

In 2012, FEMA's budget request was $13.6 billion; this is up from $5.8 billion in 2008. WHAT???? Better than a 100% increase in 4 years. Holy smokes. Anyone remember volunteer fire departments? I can't say right now that I think Romney's ridiculous in wanting to funnel the money directly to the states instead. Can you??
 
Liberals trying to politicize 'Sandy' will only increase Conservative turn-out.

Just another example of why liberalism must be crushed.

MSNBC actually called Obama 'medium-cool' is his 'handling' of 'Sandy'.

Do you have ANY idea what this looks like to logical people?
 
poweRob said:
Privatized means need of profit. So tell us, where's the profit in doing this going to come from?
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Privitization doesn't mean profit... the USPS is privitized and it's generally not making a profit, Amtrak is privitized and it's far from profitable, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are privitized and aren't supposed to be making profit, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting is a private entity that has continued to find ways to fund the public broadcasting and education intiatives it intends on doing with or without federal assistance...

The profit aspect is not what privitizing means... funds coming from private sources is what privitizing means...

If private parties and private companies donate large amounts to the cleanup in reaction to disasters... having them donate tax free in advance of disasters to save government funding for permanent operation of an agency which is only needed part of the time is a way that could cut government spending to assist in reducing the deficit and paying down the debt...

There had always been volunteer fire services throughout this country's history... there have always been non-profit agencies like the Red Cross, religious charities, etc. that assist in disaster relief and will continue to do so... regardless of federal funding and/or the existence of FEMA

Most emergency services in the disasters are typically handled by state and local emergency services, the coast guard, and the state national guards as it is anyway... their reaction tends to be spot on, and the need for FEMA is truly redundant in regards to these types of issues...

Plus, there's always the added element of competition... if FEMA sucks at responding (as it has been typically abysmal in the past), it can't be replaced... If a corporation can't get the job done, they're easily replaceable, which adds the incentive for increased response times and the desire to provide better service at lower costs... as privitization almost always does...
 
disneydude said:
I'm more than happy to bank on this issue. Romney thinks getting rid of FEMA is a great idea......I'm sure that a lot of people around the country have a lot of reservations about a candidate that would think that way.....especially in times of threatening or actual natural disasters. We can't have another GWB running this country....and GWB to his credit didn't even advocate for getting rid of FEMA.
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No kidding you'd want to bank on this idea... since you can't bank on Obama's record in any other regard... you're hoping Sandy washed away everyone's memory of the last 4 years, the debates, and their own personal finances...

Still it's not a winning issue... Romney has been excellent at crisis management... He's already been a governor of a state that has handled numerous disasters...

All Sandy did in ensure that prices at the pumps are going to be extremely high when people fuel up these coming weeks... and gas prices are a major consideration in swing and undecided voter minds..
 
Fishstyx said:
Problem is, FEMA has morphed into something it was never intended to be. Its intention was to assist State's responses, particularly in the dispensing of emergency funds. It was never meant to be a "boots on the ground, first responder."
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Not quite.

FEMA's response was to be measured depending on the severity of the disaster in play. Not merely a "back-up" to the state's response. That is true for several reasons, but some of them have to do with the state's ability to fund such missions, the terrain involved, total surface area affected, estimated population affected and other resources that may or may not be at the state's disposal.

A state like Nevada, won't have anywhere near the same exposure to various kinds of natural disasters that a state like California. So, the plan an approach has to be different and the degree, level and intensity of the response from FEMA would by definition be altered based on the latitude/longitude of the affected area. There could easily be instances where FEMA is all that particular state might get. In that instance, they would by all practical means, First Responders of any real worth.

So, when you say that FEMA morphed and changed - by definition it must be extremely flexible and adaptable. And, the only way to build that kind of flexibility and adaptability, is to design it appropriately with all contingencies in mind and properly fund it. And, THAT is where Mitt Romney, fails to understand the issues at hand.
 
IndepCentristMA said:
Privitization doesn't mean profit... the USPS is privitized and it's generally not making a profit, Amtrak is privitized and it's far from profitable, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are privitized and aren't supposed to be making profit, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting is a private entity that has continued to find ways to fund the public broadcasting and education intiatives it intends on doing with or without federal assistance...

The profit aspect is not what privitizing means... funds coming from private sources is what privitizing means...

If private parties and private companies donate large amounts to the cleanup in reaction to disasters... having them donate tax free in advance of disasters to save government funding for permanent operation of an agency which is only needed part of the time is a way that could cut government spending to assist in reducing the deficit and paying down the debt...

There had always been volunteer fire services throughout this country's history... there have always been non-profit agencies like the Red Cross, religious charities, etc. that assist in disaster relief and will continue to do so... regardless of federal funding and/or the existence of FEMA

Most emergency services in the disasters are typically handled by state and local emergency services, the coast guard, and the state national guards as it is anyway... their reaction tends to be spot on, and the need for FEMA is truly redundant in regards to these types of issues...

Plus, there's always the added element of competition... if FEMA sucks at responding (as it has been typically abysmal in the past), it can't be replaced... If a corporation can't get the job done, they're easily replaceable, which adds the incentive for increased response times and the desire to provide better service at lower costs... as privitization almost always does...
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The USPS is not privatized. It is a government agency. And if you want FEMA to be another Fannie/Freddie, Amtrak or CPB... then color me shocked.

If you are going to cite competition in the private sector, there has to be a profit motive. People/companies aren't going to compete as a race to go out of business first. What are they competing for? What's the prize?
 
This is why people like me, who are centrist in nature have consistently gone right...

People like JFK understood the need for things like this... Tip ONeil worked with Reagan to accomplish things like this... Even Bill Clinton and Al Gore pushed heavy for privitization of numerous departments with the National Performance Review and "steering, not rowing"...

Now, because the liberals are all anti-corporation, anti-profit... and anti- anything that works more efficiently they've abandoned the working class roots... for the ideals of the Social Democracies, who were only built up in existence by Marshall Plan funding.... and now how created themselves huge debt burdens and stagnating economies that they have no way out of... and continue to lend and borrow to each other and create ridiculous ditigal money trails that don't add up...

I'd much rather take the same approach that has been used successfully by Teddy Roosevelt, JFK, Reagan, Clinton... and hopefully president Romney... in reducing federal regulations, reducing tax rates, and only spending in areas which are guaranteed to protect america and make it stronger... and raise expectations on the people of this country to do more with less so everyone can become involved... and broaded the base so more people are working and contributing to society, and less people are dependent on society for taxpayer money...
 
poweRob said:
The USPS is not privatized. It is a government agency. And if you want FEMA to be another Fannie/Freddie, Amtrak or CPB... then color me shocked.

If you are going to cite competition in the private sector, there has to be a profit motive. People/companies aren't going to compete as a race to go out of business first. What are they competing for? What's the prize?
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The US Postal Service is an independent government agency... that is supposed to be self reliant... It is a federal agency in name only...

United States Postal Service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The USPS has not directly received taxpayer-dollars since the early 1980s with the minor exception of subsidies for costs associated with the disabled and overseas voters"

They did just as Romney has advocated doing with Amtrak, with PBS, with FEMA, and numerous other agencies... privitize them...

The prize is they're out of work if they don't perform... I know government backers have trouble with this, since their unions protect them when performing piss poor... but most people will do everything they can to keep their jobs... it does wonders for motivation...
 
IndepCentristMA said:
No kidding you'd want to bank on this idea... since you can't bank on Obama's record in any other regard... you're hoping Sandy washed away everyone's memory of the last 4 years, the debates, and their own personal finances...

Still it's not a winning issue... Romney has been excellent at crisis management... He's already been a governor of a state that has handled numerous disasters...

All Sandy did in ensure that prices at the pumps are going to be extremely high when people fuel up these coming weeks... and gas prices are a major consideration in swing and undecided voter minds..
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Completely wrong. I think when people look at where we were 4 years ago - country on the brink of economic and moral bankruptcy, hemorraghing 100,000 jobs a mounth vs. today....country struggling, but 30+ months of job creation and growth....there is no question that we are better off. Not where we want to be, but certainly moving in the right direction.

The debates? Considering that Obama won quite handily the two where he actually showed up....I am overall happy with the debate outcome.

So you are going to bank on gas prices? LOL....hoping that the country will take their eyes off of Romney, the man who won't tell them his economic plans for the country, has a history of outsourcing jobs and bankrupting companies, who has disdain for 47% of the country and flip flops whenever his etch-a-sketch tells him to?.....ROTFLMFAO....good one.
 
specklebang said:
His question was what should we keep.
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And, what did he tell you?

He clearly said what I posted in the OP: He thought it would be a far superior idea to push the entire function of disaster control back to the States. But, he did not stop there. He then said that it would be "even better" to push the entire thing into the Private Sector.

I'm not quite sure how that part was missed. Maybe you can quote the part you are referring to as clarification - but he clearly stated that his preference would be State at a minimum and Privatization as the Optimum goal. Which is really saying, let's have no viable solution to national disaster relief at all.


specklebang said:
The answer is that FEMA and the military are most appropriate to keep at the Federal level and there are other things that could best be returned to the states. FEMA is obviously a multi-state operation.
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But, based on what FEMA does - based on its mission - what would you return to the States?


specklebang said:
I'm not a Romney fan and I didn't vote for him. But I try to be fair to everybody and thats what I took from this early debate.
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I'm not a Romney Fan, either. But his ideas on this issue are just wacky.
 
PW4000 said:
And, what did he tell you?

He clearly said what I posted in the OP: He thought it would be a far superior idea to push the entire function of disaster control back to the States. But, he did not stop there. He then said that it would be "even better" to push the entire thing into the Private Sector.

I'm not quite sure how that part was missed. Maybe you can quote the part you are referring to as clarification - but he clearly stated that his preference would be State at a minimum and Privatization as the Optimum goal. Which is really saying, let's have no viable solution to national disaster relief at all.




But, based on what FEMA does - based on its mission - what would you return to the States?




I'm not a Romney Fan, either. But his ideas on this issue are just wacky.
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Romney thinks that Privatizing Fema, just like privatizing medicare and social security are good ideas!
He probably also wants to privatize our military.
 
IndepCentristMA said:
... Romney has been excellent at crisis management... He's already been a governor of a state that has handled numerous disasters...

..
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BTW if Romney was so GREAT as governor of Massachusetts, why is he losing his own state by such a HUGE margin? Perhaps it was all of the vetos and veto over-rides that it took to get anything done while he was governor.
 
specklebang said:
You're getting a different message than I am from the clip. Interesting.

He does seem to promote states and private sector but I don't hear FEMA as a specific target. Certainly would not be practical.
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The question is about Disaster Relief! How could anyone on the stage not be talking about FEMA, when that is the Agency that handles such issues?

Are you admitting that Romney, does not answer questions that are put directly to him - because, he does a lot of that, too!
 
Kind of makes me sad that so many have been hypnotized into the narrative that lean and mean will fix everything. Little do they know these things they take for granted would be replaced with nothing, rather than the utopian idea that magic green shoots will sprout up everywhere and take care of everything the government used to do.

You suckers don't get it, it will be replaced with nothing. The whole point of "less government" is not because it works better, its because the rich will no longer have to pay for it. This pipe dream that volunteers and charities will fill the void is a side splitting joke. You really think volunteers are going to pop out from nowhere and fix everything as though through magic? Did that happen during Katrina? Was the failed government response trumped by magic volunteers popping out of the wood work to fix everything? No it wasn't, because it doesn't work that way.

Go ahead though, continue with your desired "lean" pipe dream.
 
Getting rid of FEMA and putting states in control of their own disaster recovery. I guess I am the only one here who remembers how local and state government handled hurricane Katrina when that hit. They had the chance to evacuate people early and waited until the last moment to evacuate. Granted, this isn't about FEMA, but you can see my point about what happens when you leave it up to the state to handle their own issue. I still don't think we learned our lesson from that fiasco.
 
CedarBear said:
MSNBC actually called Obama 'medium-cool' is his 'handling' of 'Sandy'.
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What does that mean? He's not as cool as the Ladies Man?

ladies-man_288x288.jpg


I can't believe we're talking about his reaction to something that's barely started happening. That's like having the Post-Game Press Conference with 7:00 left in the 1st Quarter.
 
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