This is why Obama will lose.

Verax said:

They're the same people.

Click to expand...

Not always. In fact, I'd say it's uncommon. My parents lived paycheck to paycheck but still found a way to send me to a private school. They lived paycheck to paycheck, but found a way to live in a nice neighborhood with a nice house. Never once did we get/use government money.

Welfare people see their "check" as "free money." That somehow, just by being a citizen means they "earned" that money somehow. Welfare people tend to put discretionary expenditures in the forefront.

Two totally different creatures.

Jonsa said:

No, I laid out why the plan is not going to work the way Romney is promising it would.
But I see your point, because all those apple pie things in the plan like good schools, energy independence etc are not things that every american wants and funnily enough, Obama has been espousing. And because the recover is taking longer than first thought, why not switch horses in mid stream and go with a plan that is known to be fundamentally flawed from the get go? Sounds like an informed well thought out strategy..

Click to expand...

Oh please....You think that less growth this year over last, and less last year than in 2010 is a good thing? You think that 23 million un, or under employed is a good thing? You think that 47 million on food stamps is a good thing? You think that $16 Trillion in debt with downgraded credit ratings is a good thing?

You have a funny conception of what is good.

If you are so sure of you crystal ball, who is going to win the superbowl?

Click to expand...

Don't need one...All one needs to do is talk to people....Let me tell you, word on the streets is that Obama has failed, and is desperately clutching at straws.

Mr.Nick said:

Yes financial payoff, union bailouts, food stamps, welfare, unemployment, pension bailouts, government grants etc....

When I say 30% are on the dole - that is what I mean..

Click to expand...

not sure what you mean by union bailouts and pension bailouts.
What government grants and to whom?
unemployment is insurance so that isn't a hand out.
welfare - less than 4% of the population
food stamps - about 14% of the population

so can you be definitive in how you arrived at this 30% figure?

The rest of us in the private sector are loosing money and stuck paying for your "benefits."

I believe the majority of us in the private sector would rather NOT join your collectivist "government take care of me" lifestyle. Yeah, sorry most of us grew up long ago and realize there is a problem and we're not willing to sacrifice our liberty for security or over a loaf of bread and a few bucks that others worked hard for...

Click to expand...

Well, now that is very interesting. As far as collectivism is concerned I guess things like medicare, medicaid, unemployment insurance, workmens comp, block state grants, etc are forms of collectivism that are acceptable to you. Are you aware of how many socialist and redistribution programs exist in the united states?

As for not willing to sacrifice liberty for security, you haven't been paying much attention nor defending your precious liberties over the past 12 years or so. I have no idea what you are talking about sacrificing liberty for a few bucks and a loaf of bread.

As a Roman Catholic I will tell you to go to a Church if you need a handout - they will take care of you (at their discretion) - however a free lifestyle is not your "right" nor was it the way of your father or our forefathers.

Click to expand...

My what is are the catholics coming to these days. Seems you can ignore the teachings of jesus at your discretion especially when it comes to your pocket. Good solid christians telling the poor, the sick, the disadvantage - screw you, go find somebody else to help you. And the worst of it is, you still think of yourself as good christian. Maybe its time to read that book of yours.

Amazing how far from christian your attitude seems to be.

Deuteronomy 15:7, 11
If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother. There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land.

Leviticus 23:22
When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.

Psalm 12:5
Because of the oppression of the weak and the groaning of the needy, I will now arise, says the LORD, I will protect them from those who malign them

Proverbs 14:21
He who despises his neighbor sins,but blessed is he who is kind to the needy.

Proverbs 21:13
If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered.

Proverbs 31:8-9
Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.

1 John 3:17-18
If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

Velvet Elvis said:

Not always. In fact, I'd say it's uncommon. My parents lived paycheck to paycheck but still found a way to send me to a private school. They lived paycheck to paycheck, but found a way to live in a nice neighborhood with a nice house. Never once did we get/use government money.

Welfare people see their "check" as "free money." That somehow, just by being a citizen means they "earned" that money somehow. Welfare people tend to put discretionary expenditures in the forefront.

Two totally different creatures.

Click to expand...

Most people are on many forms of welfare but don't know it.

j-mac said:

Oh please....You think that less growth this year over last, and less last year than in 2010 is a good thing? You think that 23 million un, or under employed is a good thing? You think that 47 million on food stamps is a good thing? You think that $16 Trillion in debt with downgraded credit ratings is a good thing?

You have a funny conception of what is good.

Click to expand...

Well considering the global economy, the US isn't doing that badly. I know many americans don't think that exports are an important contributor to the economy but, some americans have figured it out and realize it has considerable impact on growth. That impact results in less tax revenue, less production and higher deficits.

No the number of underemployed is not a good thing, hence the increase in food stamps. Those increases are directly attributable to the working poor need a hand to feed their families in tough times. And the $16trillion in debt is not a good thing but the downgraded credit rating is not primarly because of the size of the debt, but of the partisan gridlock in congress, and the fact the teapublicans were running around claiming that defaulting wouldn't be a bad thing. But let's just forget these rating companies also were giving AA and AAA ratings to toxic mortgage backed dirivitives, or did that escape your attention at the time.

I have a very realistic conception of good. You otoh seem to have trouble with reading comprehension. Romney's plan is fundamentally flawed - it won't work. His day one plan is disturbing and n some instances fallacious and in others reckless. You think that is going to be good? If you wish to discuss the issues and the policies and the solutions fine, I am attempting to do so.

Don't need one...All one needs to do is talk to people....Let me tell you, word on the streets is that Obama has failed, and is desperately clutching at straws.

Click to expand...

Anecdotal evidence. Yep that's all that's needed. You on the street often? or is your street just a bunch of like minded friends?
the polls don't seem to back up that observation, but of course you've talked to people.

Velvet Elvis said:

Not always. In fact, I'd say it's uncommon. My parents lived paycheck to paycheck but still found a way to send me to a private school. They lived paycheck to paycheck, but found a way to live in a nice neighborhood with a nice house. Never once did we get/use government money.

Welfare people see their "check" as "free money." That somehow, just by being a citizen means they "earned" that money somehow. Welfare people tend to put discretionary expenditures in the forefront.

Two totally different creatures.

Click to expand...

Tell me how many people on welfare you have talked to. How do you come to such a sweeping generalization about those on welfare? Can you point to any study of welfare recipients that backs up this pathetic generalization? Have you ever experienced homelessness, real hunger, the loss of dignity and pride, the desperation to feed your kids?

Its amazing that you private school middle class white guys have this in depth knowledge of what welfare is all about.

You say I would never be on welfare because I have pride, because its humiliating, because I'm not lazy, because I'm not afraid to work.

Now imagine you lose your job, you desperately hunt for a job but for every one you apply for there re 50 better qualified applicants, you spend your savings, your house gets repo'd, your car gets repo'd, nobody will lend you money and the kids are hungry and want a bed to sleep in, - that kind of desperation. Can you imagine swallowing your pride to feed the kids, can you imagine suffering the humiliation?

Well unfortunately too many americans don't have to image that humiliation and shattered pride, they are experiencing it.

Verax said:

Most people are on many forms of welfare but don't know it.

Click to expand...

I'm not talking about those folks either. I'm specifically talking about the type of people that the "ObamaPhone Lady" is. The career welfare people. The ones who game the system so that they get the maximum benefit, with minimal contribution to society.

I await your next sub-sub-sub-sub-sub group of people you want to defend.

Velvet Elvis said:

I'm not talking about those folks either. I'm specifically talking about the type of people that the "ObamaPhone Lady" is. The career welfare people. The ones who game the system so that they get the maximum benefit, with minimal contribution to society.

I await your next sub-sub-sub-sub-sub group of people you want to defend.

Click to expand...

Uhhh, you have it backwards, you're the one sub-sub-sub defining groups. Your diatribe is against welfare queens, what is that, 5% of the population? 1%? That's the only argument you guys ever have, it always comes down to crying about welfare.

Jonsa said:

Well considering the global economy, the US isn't doing that badly. I know many americans don't think that exports are an important contributor to the economy but, some americans have figured it out and realize it has considerable impact on growth. That impact results in less tax revenue, less production and higher deficits.

No the number of underemployed is not a good thing, hence the increase in food stamps. Those increases are directly attributable to the working poor need a hand to feed their families in tough times. And the $16trillion in debt is not a good thing but the downgraded credit rating is not primarly because of the size of the debt, but of the partisan gridlock in congress, and the fact the teapublicans were running around claiming that defaulting wouldn't be a bad thing. But let's just forget these rating companies also were giving AA and AAA ratings to toxic mortgage backed dirivitives, or did that escape your attention at the time.

I have a very realistic conception of good. You otoh seem to have trouble with reading comprehension. Romney's plan is fundamentally flawed - it won't work. His day one plan is disturbing and n some instances fallacious and in others reckless. You think that is going to be good? If you wish to discuss the issues and the policies and the solutions fine, I am attempting to do so.

Click to expand...

Well, you can insult me to your hearts content, doesn't change a thing in my mind. You seem to be of the misconception that, oh, if republicans had just sat back and rubber stamped Obama at every turn then things would be just peachy. But that isn't leadership as much as it is dictatorship. You know, Obama was big on telling we the people that he was open to ideas, and input from all, then tell those who stepped forward that HE won the election and it was his way of the highway....That's BS. So, yeah the people on a true grassroots level formed the TEA Party, and effected change to stop the ramming through of legislation against the will of the people, and people like you took offense. How dare we mere mortals question Obama...pfft.

I can't tell you for a 100% certainty that Obama will lose on Nov 6, things could happen, hell, Frankin made it didn't he? Or did he? But I will say this, you think that it was tough for Obama the past four years? Just wait if he wins.

Anecdotal evidence. Yep that's all that's needed. You on the street often? or is your street just a bunch of like minded friends?
the polls don't seem to back up that observation, but of course you've talked to people.

Click to expand...

I drive truck for a living, over several states....So yeah, I see quite a diverse cross section of people...

Jonsa said:

Tell me how many people on welfare you have talked to.

Click to expand...

Actually, quite a few. There is a food pantry/homeless shelter across the street from my work (you know...a job). One cannot get away from them, when so close to an establishment that gives out "free" stuff. It's like a magnet.

How do you come to such a sweeping generalization about those on welfare?

Click to expand...

Because I choose to. Yes, there are those who do not meet the generalization, but then that's what generalizations are for.

Can you point to any study of welfare recipients that backs up this pathetic generalization?

Click to expand...

Of all the "poor" people that rush this establishment for free food, do you have any idea how many carry cell phones? How many with new tennis shoes (oops...that's a generalization...I meant "athletic shoes)? How many that stand on the street corner, begging for money, then running off to the liquor store for a half-pint of rot-gut hooch?

Have you ever experienced homelessness, real hunger, the loss of dignity and pride, the desperation to feed your kids?

Click to expand...

Actually, my father ran off when I was eleven. My mother had no skills and had been a housewife up until that point. She applied for food stamps, but when they came in the mail (back then, they were issued in books), she threw them away in shame. She would NEVER sink so low as to take handouts. My mother worked two jobs, and I rarely saw her for the first four years when it was just the two of us. Any Christmas presents I received were bought from grandparents. I regularly stayed at grandparents' houses just so that they'd feed me, because of how little we had in the house. ...and STILL....not a dime from the government. I still went to that private school, but only after an agreement with the school.

So don't lecture me boy, on what it's like. I've been there. I've also seen how to crawl out of that hole without Mommy Government's help. That's real freedom in this country.

Now imagine you lose your job, you desperately hunt for a job but for every one you apply for there re 50 better qualified applicants, you spend your savings, your house gets repo'd, your car gets repo'd, nobody will lend you money and the kids are hungry and want a bed to sleep in, - that kind of desperation. Can you imagine swallowing your pride to feed the kids, can you imagine suffering the humiliation?

Click to expand...

Again...don't lecture me boy. I did get laid off from a job...on Obama's watch. 250 resumes went out during the course of a year. Finally caught on as a seasonal worker at Lowe's, and then worked as a freakin' cart monkey at Target for a year and a half, because that was the best I could find before something better opened up.

Do YOU know what it's like to go from making $50,000 a year to $7,800 a year. Once again...not a dime from Mommy Government. Somehow I think you're totally ignorant of what it's like, just as you have no clue what I've personally gone through in a lifetime, and what real freedom means.

Velvet Elvis said:

Actually, quite a few. There is a food pantry/homeless shelter across the street from my work (you know...a job). One cannot get away from them, when so close to an establishment that gives out "free" stuff. It's like a magnet.


Because I choose to. Yes, there are those who do not meet the generalization, but then that's what generalizations are for.


Of all the "poor" people that rush this establishment for free food, do you have any idea how many carry cell phones? How many with new tennis shoes (oops...that's a generalization...I meant "athletic shoes)? How many that stand on the street corner, begging for money, then running off to the liquor store for a half-pint of rot-gut hooch?


Actually, my father ran off when I was eleven. My mother had no skills and had been a housewife up until that point. She applied for food stamps, but when they came in the mail (back then, they were issued in books), she threw them away in shame. She would NEVER sink so low as to take handouts. My mother worked two jobs, and I rarely saw her for the first four years when it was just the two of us. Any Christmas presents I received were bought from grandparents. I regularly stayed at grandparents' houses just so that they'd feed me, because of how little we had in the house. ...and STILL....not a dime from the government. I still went to that private school, but only after an agreement with the school.

So don't lecture me boy, on what it's like. I've been there. I've also seen how to crawl out of that hole without Mommy Government's help. That's real freedom in this country.


Again...don't lecture me boy. I did get laid off from a job...on Obama's watch. 250 resumes went out during the course of a year. Finally caught on as a seasonal worker at Lowe's, and then worked as a freakin' cart monkey at Target for a year and a half, because that was the best I could find before something better opened up.

Do YOU know what it's like to go from making $50,000 a year to $7,800 a year. Once again...not a dime from Mommy Government. Somehow I think you're totally ignorant of what it's like, just as you have no clue what I've personally gone through in a lifetime, and what real freedom means.

Click to expand...

thank you for calling me boy, its been 50 years since somebody called me that.
Everyone has a story. I apologize for any presumption on my part.

OTOH, I do know what its like, only the gap was much greater. I've been flat broke twice in my life. My old man always told me it ain't the number of times you get kicked in the head, its the number of times you get up off the floor - all you have to do in life is be one up.

You are still operating on personal anecdotal information from one particular site. I totally understand the pride issue about accepting government largesse. Obviously your mother had the strength of character to cope with the situation no matter how hard it was and she had family to count on as well. Do you think all those people on welfare have the strength of character to take the harder road? Do they even have the ability?

NO doubt there is abuse of welfare and other government social programs, but I do not think it is remotely close to th numbers you do. From published state statistics, I could only find studies in the 4 to 6% range for fraud. Regardless, you'd condemn the other 70% or 90% of recipients because some abuse the system?

Jonsa said:

thank you for calling me boy, its been 50 years since somebody called me that.
Everyone has a story. I apologize for any presumption on my part.

OTOH, I do know what its like, only the gap was much greater. I've been flat broke twice in my life. My old man always told me it ain't the number of times you get kicked in the head, its the number of times you get up off the floor - all you have to do in life is be one up.

You are still operating on personal anecdotal information from one particular site. I totally understand the pride issue about accepting government largesse. Obviously your mother had the strength of character to cope with the situation no matter how hard it was and she had family to count on as well. Do you think all those people on welfare have the strength of character to take the harder road? Do they even have the ability?

NO doubt there is abuse of welfare and other government social programs, but I do not think it is remotely close to th numbers you do. From published state statistics, I could only find studies in the 4 to 6% range for fraud. Regardless, you'd condemn the other 70% or 90% of recipients because some abuse the system?

Click to expand...

Take a look at Chicago... It's not only Chicago, but welfare abuse is rapid these days in all democrat districts, counties and cities...

The system is pretty easy to understand - democrats throw taxpayer money at collectivists and they in-turn vote democrat.

The notion that those on welfare are not satisfied with living for nothing on minimal benefits is outright nonsense - especially considering every kid they have is another 500 a month.

Having 12 kids at the age of 32 and getting a $2,500 a month check from the government, not to mention free food and utilities etc must be nice.... Yeah poor them, those poor people who get everything in their life for free...

j-mac said:

Well, you can insult me to your hearts content, doesn't change a thing in my mind. You seem to be of the misconception that, oh, if republicans had just sat back and rubber stamped Obama at every turn then things would be just peachy. But that isn't leadership as much as it is dictatorship. You know, Obama was big on telling we the people that he was open to ideas, and input from all, then tell those who stepped forward that HE won the election and it was his way of the highway....That's BS. So, yeah the people on a true grassroots level formed the TEA Party, and effected change to stop the ramming through of legislation against the will of the people, and people like you took offense. How dare we mere mortals question Obama...pfft.

Click to expand...

Firstly where did I insult you? I consider insult a high art form, and only display my facility with racist, bigots, holocaust deniers and nazis.

Secondly, no I don't think that the republicans should merely give a rubber stamp, but on the other hand I do thinking they should have been ready to compromise. We both know Obama could have done a better job communicating with congress, but I think he thought everyone was a grown up and in time of crisis solutions mattered more than politics. It didn't turn out that way, he was wrong.

The "people" managed to elect 65 teapartiers (or at least that is the number in caucus) or 12% of the seats. If it wasn't for Texas, Florida and Louisiana, they would have had half as many members. However, they had a legitimate position, but they were intractable and in many ways they were ignorant of the larger economic issues. That's democracy for ya, a minority can stop the majority from doing anything.

The teapartiers didn't question obama, they set about to deliberately block his agenda and very clearly stated that they were not going to compromise. they ran around telling the world that maybe it was a good thing that america default - displaying an astonishing level of ignorance in very difficult financial times not just in the US but around the world.

I can't tell you for a 100% certainty that Obama will lose on Nov 6, things could happen, hell, Frankin made it didn't he? Or did he? But I will say this, you think that it was tough for Obama the past four years? Just wait if he wins.

Click to expand...

If he wins, why would it be tougher on him? are you suggesting that politics trumps the good of the nation? Are you suggesting ideology will trump developing and implementing solutions? From taking action? Hmmmm. That kind of attitude seems to me to be counter productive to the good of the nation, but hey......

Mr.Nick said:

Take a look at Chicago... It's not only Chicago, but welfare abuse is rapid these days in all democrat districts, counties and cities...

The system is pretty easy to understand - democrats throw taxpayer money at collectivists and they in-turn vote democrat.

The notion that those on welfare are not satisfied with living for nothing on minimal benefits is outright nonsense - especially considering every kid they have is another 500 a month.

Having 12 kids at the age of 32 and getting a $2,500 a month check from the government, not to mention free food and utilities etc must be nice.... Yeah poor them, those poor people who get everything in their life for free...

Click to expand...

So you condemn the truly needy because a few - yes a few abuse the system. This massive welfare fraud does not exist, just like massive in person voter fraud does not exist. Its like saying all republicans believe there is something called legitimate rape and that women who are raped can shut down their reproductive system, because a few of extremists think that way.

Mr.Nick said:

Having 12 kids at the age of 32 and getting a $2,500 a month check from the government, not to mention free food and utilities etc must be nice.... Yeah poor them, those poor people who get everything in their life for free...

Click to expand...

Show me who's doing that? I don't know if you have kids, but $2500/month for a family of 13 or 14....yeah, that goes real far. Especially in Chicago, because rents are so low there.

j-mac said:

This stat is a death knell for the policies that have us where we are today. This marks the real insecurity that is Obama policies. Think about it, if something happens right now, 40% of America doesn't have the cash to get through it....Getting better? Not according to this.

Click to expand...

So the President is the reason folks don't have enough cash? Whatever happened to personal responsibility and pulling yourself up by your bootstraps? Where there's a will there's a way, right?

StillBallin75 said:

So the President is the reason folks don't have enough cash? Whatever happened to personal responsibility and pulling yourself up by your bootstraps? Where there's a will there's a way, right?

Click to expand...

Personal responsibility is Subjective these days, depending on if our guy or thier guy is the one selling it

hikari said:

Personal responsibility is Subjective these days, depending on if our guy or thier guy is the one selling it

Click to expand...

It's assumed that if you are on the right, you already have personal responsibility, and therefore everything else is because of the librul media and big government.

rocket88 said:

Show me who's doing that? I don't know if you have kids, but $2500/month for a family of 13 or 14....yeah, that goes real far. Especially in Chicago, because rents are so low there.

Click to expand...

They don't pay rent (section 8) - they pay for nothing - that $2,500 bucks is spending cash.

Why have a job when you can just make babies and get paid?

I'm no prude, I've been to projects, lived in section 8 communities and have seen these scam artists. These woman refer to their unborn children as "tummy money."

Welcome to the real world, and what I have seen first hand is 90% of the reason I hold the political views I do. Scamming taxpayers while playing the "victim of society" card or "racism" card is blatantly dishonest and disgusting...

They're NOT victims - they choose the life they lead and they damn well know what they're doing is wrong but just don't care...

Of course there are many people who would choose not to live that lifestyle and only use public assistance as a "last means necessary" or a "stepping stone" to a better life but a strong minority of people (generally woman) are more than content with that lifestyle and will play "poor victim of society" any and every time they're called out..... Of course rich progressives buy the crying and progressive politicians take advantage of the situation by allowing it to continue for a vote.

Of course the second someone like myself articulates these realities there is always someone calling "bullcrap" because MSNBC or CNN doesn't document these realities. Why would they? what, make their party of champions look like they're buying votes? what, destroy the rich progressive worldview?

Mr.Nick said:

They don't pay rent (section 8) - they pay for nothing - that $2,500 bucks is spending cash.

Why have a job when you can just make babies and get paid?

I'm no prude, I've been to projects, lived in section 8 communities and have seen these scam artists. These woman refer to their unborn children as "tummy money."

Welcome to the real world, and what I have seen first hand is 90% of the reason I hold the political views I do. Scamming taxpayers while playing the "victim of society" card or "racism" card is blatantly dishonest and disgusting...

They're NOT victims - they choose the life they lead and they damn well know what they're doing is wrong but just don't care...

Of course there are many people who would choose not to live that lifestyle and only use public assistance as a "last means necessary" or a "stepping stone" to a better life but a strong minority of people (generally woman) are more than content with that lifestyle and will play "poor victim of society" any and every time they're called out..... Of course rich progressives buy the crying and progressive politicians take advantage of the situation by allowing it to continue for a vote.

Of course the second someone like myself articulates these realities there is always someone calling "bullcrap" because MSNBC or CNN doesn't document these realities. Why would they? what, make their party of champions look like they're buying votes? what, destroy the rich progressive worldview?

Click to expand...

The maximum allowed for section 8 is $2200 Section 8 (housing) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Any place that has room for a family of 14 is going to cost way more than $2200 to rent. Even if you jam everyone into 3 bedrooms, in Minnesota that's going to cost a pretty penny. I can only imagine in Chicago.

I'm not saying that nobody abuses the system, but I am calling your hyperbole for what it is.

(Also, I said nothing about race or racism. That's all you.)

rocket88 said:

The maximum allowed for section 8 is $2200 Section 8 (housing) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Any place that has room for a family of 14 is going to cost way more than $2200 to rent. Even if you jam everyone into 3 bedrooms, in Minnesota that's going to cost a pretty penny. I can only imagine in Chicago.

I'm not saying that nobody abuses the system, but I am calling your hyperbole for what it is.

(Also, I said nothing about race or racism. That's all you.)

Click to expand...

Yeah right........... What do you think rent is on a house that is worth 25-30k?

Furthermore how the hell am I a hypocrite? I bought my home with cash money - I owe no one anything.

How many people at 32 years of age can say they own their own home with no mortgage?

As far as your race comment - it's just goofy... I never mentioned race - I've seen all races scam the system in various ways...

Mr.Nick said:

Yeah right........... What do you think rent is on a house that is worth 25-30k?

Furthermore how the hell am I a hypocrite? I bought my home with cash money - I owe no one anything.

How many people at 32 years of age can say they own their own home with no mortgage?

As far as your race comment - it's just goofy... I never mentioned race - I've seen all races scam the system in various ways...

Click to expand...

When did I call you a hypocrite? You're building strawmen to knock down.

I didn't call you a hypocrite, and I never said you were a racist. You've defended yourself against charges I didn't make, and all you can say to my point is "Yeah right...."

rocket88 said:

When did I call you a hypocrite? You're building strawmen to knock down.

I didn't call you a hypocrite, and I never said you were a racist. You've defended yourself against charges I didn't make, and all you can say to my point is "Yeah right...."

Click to expand...

Yeah sorry you used or referred to my position as "hyperbole."

You certainly accused me of being a racist with typical progressive undertones.... So don't even attempt to insult my intelligence on that accusation...

Subtle implications are just as blunt....

CNN said tonight Obama Campaign is now borrowing $15M. That may not be a good sign two weeks out in a close election.

Fisher said:

CNN said tonight Obama Campaign is now borrowing $15M. That may not be a good sign two weeks out in a close election.

Click to expand...

He is running his Campaign just like he has ran our country for the past four years. It's time for him to go!