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My Pain Is Mitt Romney's Gain: My Story as a Sensata Worker

WcBeasley said:
Oh ok.. so when American Companies were making money hand over fist during Clintons administration (when the tax rate was at the highest it had been in Decades was a bad thing? They are actually lower NOW than they were then. Whats the difference? Oh thats right the wing-nut far right wing has decided that they want 2 classes, the Nobility and the peasant class.
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That's a good point. If you look at the statistics, government spending and revenue rise with Democratic presidents and congresses willing to work with them. When we have GOP presidents, Military spending goes up on a credit card. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
 
TurtleDude said:
Now here is the million dollar question that the dems and unions never can answer

given the UNDENIABLE FACT that there are equally skilled workers in other nations who can do the SAME WORK as AMERICAN workers for one 5th the wages what will happen to companies that insist on purchasing a commodity that is FIVE TIMES more expensive as that used by the COMPETITION?
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What will happen? I'll tell you. When more jobs are created HERE then more spending happens and THAT will cause prices to become LOWER this causeing people to buy those products even MORE creating more taxes, reducing the deficit and making our currency stronger giving us more buying power that once agaion causes prices HERE to go lower yet again. It's called supply and demand. Basic economics.
 
WcBeasley said:
Oh ok.. so when American Companies were making money hand over fist during Clintons administration (when the tax rate was at the highest it had been in Decades was a bad thing? They are actually lower NOW than they were then. Whats the difference? Oh thats right the wing-nut far right wing has decided that they want 2 classes, the Nobility and the peasant class.
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More class envy psychobabble. economic reality is something ignored by the boohoo woe is us whiners. Companies were not making money BECAUSE of the clinton tax hikes but despite it due to the dot com bubble and the belt tightening companies made during Bush one's administration.
 
WcBeasley said:
What will happen? I'll tell you. When more jobs are created HERE then more spending happens and THAT will cause prices to become LOWER this causeing people to buy those products even MORE creating more taxes, reducing the deficit and making our currency stronger giving us more buying power that once agaion causes prices HERE to go lower yet again. It's called supply and demand. Basic economics.
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Uh you are ignoring my question, I suspect because you don't have a clue. Why will people by a product that is no better but is much more expensive because part of the cost of producing it (Labor) is 5 times higher than a similar product of similar quality?
 
TurtleDude said:
It would suck. but lots of things suck. the answer is to be your own boss or make yourself too valuable to fire
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I AM my own boss and NO ONE is too valuable to be fired. Period. And if EVERYONE was there own boss we would have other problems to deal with. Not everyone is financialy able to own and operate a business and lets face it, not everyone is SMART enough to either own a business or make themselves 'invaluable'. Do you suggest we just push them aside and let them fend for themselves come what may?
 
I dunno, Obama gave GM tens of billions of dollars to shift more of its auto manufacturing to China, building new GM pants there. Democrats seem plenty ok with that.

Or the hundreds of millions of dollars going to a S. Korea solar company for a San Antonio solar project - a S. Korean company that has never manufactured a single solar cell in its history - rather than USA companies that do make solar panels and submitted a lower bid - this happening after the Democratic Major of San Antonio met with Obama and the President of S. Korea in an off-record meeting. Democrats seem plenty ok with that too - to literally give more tax dollars to S. Korea companies the American companies that would do it for less and are already in the business.

No one has exported more America jobs over seas and will even lose tax money to do so - like when he declared that there were NO facilities anywhere in the USA to build the $100,000 electric car so gave that contract to Finland.

And, lest we forget, it was Obama that eliminated competitive bidding for federal contracts.
 
upsideguy said:
...it has NOTHING to do with the tax system.... it has everything to do with being able to pay 1/10 the wages, no benefits and not have to worry about basic standards of employee safety or environmental harmony. Contrary to the opinion of the many, rarely are taxes a primary or even secondary business concern. First you worry about making profits; then you worry about structuring your affairs to minimize taxes.
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Oh, it absolutely does. 20/20, 60 minutes or one of those video news mags did an entire hour on it. Of course, their solution was to tax companies that move jobs overseas instead of cutting taxes to keep the jobs here, but they showed all kinds of evidence of companies moving jobs to Switzerland, where the corporate taxes are very low.
 
TurtleDude said:
Uh you are ignoring my question, I suspect because you don't have a clue. Why will people by a product that is no better but is much more expensive because part of the cost of producing it (Labor) is 5 times higher than a similar product of similar quality?
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To put it simply any economy that gives the majority of its jobs to another country to save money in the short run will eventually collapse. Yes it would cost those companies more initially but then my previous statement takes effect.
 
WcBeasley said:
How would you like to know you are losing YOUR job just before Christmas and you had to train the people that were taking your job?
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that would suck, undeniably
personally,I wouldn't train my replacement.. I would intentionally break contract with my employer to escape that particular fiduciary duty
 
Hairytic said:
Tom Gaulrapp: My Pain Is Mitt Romney's Gain: My Story as a Sensata Worker

"I've worked at the same factory in Freeport, Ill. for thirty-three years, making sensors and controls for the auto industry. It's tough work, but it pays a living wage with health benefits that folks can count on, and it fuels our town's economy and tax base.

That's been changing since Bain Capital came to town. Two years ago, our factory was sold to Sensata Technologies, a company created by Bain Capital, and they told us that by December 2012, all 170 of our jobs would be shipped to China. They even made us train our Chinese replacements."

These workers have appealed to Romney to speak for them at Bain Capital to stop their jobs from being shipped over to China. Romney holds controling shares at Bain and has a lot of pull there. If he is unwlling to speak up for these workers at Bain, then how can we trust he will speak up for American workers as President?
I think it is very unpatriotic for these big corporations to ship American jobs over to China for more profit.

What do you think?
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you'd think that they'd at least wait until after the election to fire a bunch of domestic workers. however, that's the way things are going. manufacturing is a race to the bottom, and we're going to have to replace it with something else. my vote is infrastructure and energy, especially nuclear and renewables. the alternative is to pay people not to work. most people would rather have a job.
 
WcBeasley said:
To put it simply any economy that gives the majority of its jobs to another country to save money in the short run will eventually collapse. Yes it would cost those companies more initially but then my previous statement takes effect.
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if you want wages above what skilled labor in other nations accept you have to have skills above that of other workers
 
Thrilla said:
that would suck, undeniably
personally,I wouldn't train my replacement.. I would intentionally break contract with my employer to escape that particular fiduciary duty
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Frankly, I'm surprised they're expecting them to do that -- and further surprised they gave them notice. I can only imagine the sabotage that'll be done before that equipment is shipped overseas. That'd be just a human reaction.
 
These companies like Bain are in business to make as much money as possible and to reward their executives lavishly. That's what they do and to believe that patriotism or long range effects matter to them is unrealistic.

Will Mr. Romney take a different view as President? The Presidents job is NOT to make as much money as possible but to allocate the resources of the USA in an effective manner and to take both a long term and short term view.

Overall, I have a good opinion of Romney. He's smart and capable. I also have concerns about him. I'm very uncomfortable with his "tax plan" because it seems to favor him personally and the people he is closest to, the highest income earners. My other concern is his degree of wealth accumulation. As an aspiring President, I would have hoped he would have exhibited a much greater degree of charitable contribution. Nobody needs to have hundreds of millions of dollars.

Now, being "self-interested" is not a crime. It does not reflect on abilities. However, I am concerned about his lack of empathy.

I've noted that both candidates are relying on promises of tax cuts and both candidates seem determined to increase spending. Therefore, I will not be able to vote for either of them.
 
WcBeasley said:
I AM my own boss and NO ONE is too valuable to be fired. Period. And if EVERYONE was there own boss we would have other problems to deal with. Not everyone is financialy able to own and operate a business and lets face it, not everyone is SMART enough to either own a business or make themselves 'invaluable'. Do you suggest we just push them aside and let them fend for themselves come what may?
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well, I agree with the notion of people being their own bosses... but I do not agree on no one being to valuable to be fired.
 
Helix said:
you'd think that they'd at least wait until after the election to fire a bunch of domestic workers. however, that's the way things are going. manufacturing is a race to the bottom, and we're going to have to replace it with something else. my vote is infrastructure and energy, especially nuclear and renewables. the alternative is to pay people not to work. most people would rather have a job.
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I agree.
We can open new markets when it comes to energy and race to be on top of these markets. Too any major corporations are too interested in profits now than to see the big picture. They are selling out to China and that leads to China taking our place as inovators. Companies like Bain are helping China do this all so the CEOs in these companies can be richer. That's why I say these companies that ship our jobs out of the US are very unpatriotic. Romney will only make it easier for these big corporations to help China beat us out on leading the markets.
 
MaggieD said:
Frankly, I'm surprised they're expecting them to do that -- and further surprised they gave them notice. I can only imagine the sabotage that'll be done before that equipment is shipped overseas. That'd be just a human reaction.
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I think they tied training their replacement into getting their severance packages.
the employees that stick to their fiduciary duty are rewarded with severance, those who break with that duty are not.

it's smarter to bail out and quit rather than set your self up for criminal and/or civil charges... but yeah, sabotage would be on my mind as well:lol:
 
WcBeasley said:
What will happen? I'll tell you. When more jobs are created HERE then more spending happens and THAT will cause prices to become LOWER
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Actually more spending lead to higher prices, not lower prices. In best case it will be flat. You say it is about supply and demand. Have you ever seen a demand curve?

this causeing people to buy those products even MORE creating more taxes, reducing the deficit and making our currency stronger giving us more buying power that once agaion causes prices HERE to go lower yet again. It's called supply and demand. Basic economics.
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Yep it is basic economics that you don't understand.

If a company chooses to only hire in America, while its competitors hire in low cost countries, then that company will not survive long and all of the jobs will be lost. If we want to keep our manufacturing industry, then we should try to make America an attractive place to invest, not attempt to force companies to stay, because it is going to fail.

In fact most corporations are international. They owe no allegiance to the US.
 
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Hairytic said:
I agree.
We can open new markets when it comes to energy and race to be on top of these markets. Too any major corporations are too interested in profits now than to see the big picture. They are selling out to China and that leads to China taking our place as inovators. Companies like Bain are helping China do this all so the CEOs in these companies can be richer. That's why I say these companies that ship our jobs out of the US are very unpatriotic. Romney will only make it easier for these big corporations to help China beat us out on leading the markets.
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i wouldn't call them unpatriotic; that's simply raw capitalism. it's my opinion, though, that capitalism should be tweaked to add an additional goal other than profit, growth, and market share. that additional goal should be to provide the most opportunity to the largest number of people. that's the argument capitalists use to defend it anyway; it might as well be made official. otherwise, capitalism ends up eating itself as fewer players end up with more and more of the resources.
 
MaggieD said:
I think it's unAmerican to force a company to keep jobs in the United States.
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We will see if you hold that same opinion in 20 years. I'm almost certain you will not.
 
Helix said:
...That additional goal should be to provide the most opportunity to the largest number of people. that's the argument capitalists use to defend it anyway; it might as well be made official.
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It already does. Outsourcing allows, probably, ten jobs to every one America. Or maybe even more. Think Global Economy. It's where we're headed. When everybody is dependent on everybody else? Peace is more likely.
 
TurtleDude said:
Now here is the million dollar question that the dems and unions never can answer

given the UNDENIABLE FACT that there are equally skilled workers in other nations who can do the SAME WORK as AMERICAN workers for one 5th the wages what will happen to companies that insist on purchasing a commodity that is FIVE TIMES more expensive as that used by the COMPETITION?
Click to expand...

The $1.2 million question: why does Germany enjoy a strong manufacturing base; with unions, national healthcare and higher taxes? They are not quick to ship their jobs overseas, even though they would get even greater savings (German factory workers tend to make more than their American counterparts). Part of the explanation for Germany is they have a much more equitable wealth distribution system, largely effected with their income tax system. Germany does not have the extreme poverty nor extreme wealth of the American cousins; and has a much stronger economy as they are net exporters of goods.
 
Helix said:
i wouldn't call them unpatriotic; that's simply raw capitalism. it's my opinion, though, that capitalism should be tweaked to add an additional goal other than profit, growth, and market share. that additional goal should be to provide the most opportunity to the largest number of people. that's the argument capitalists use to defend it anyway; it might as well be made official. otherwise, capitalism ends up eating itself as fewer players end up with more and more of the resources.
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How exactly are you going to incorporate "most opportunity to the largest number of people"? Corporations are no charity.

And there are countries who are not seeing rising inequality. New Zealand is number 3 in economic freedom (US is 18) and hasn't seen inequality rise since 1990. In fact inequality is dropping. Have you ever thought that there may be other factors that is causing the rising inequality beside fat cats becoming larger?
 
Hairytic said:
I think that is unAmerican also. I don't think the government should do that, but the American companies that ship jobs overseas are very unpatriotic. I also think Americans should boycot them for their lack of patriatism.
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Boycott? That is really a strawman limiting our options. Make outsourcing an act of treason. Eventually the foreigners are going to betray the traitors and take their property anyway; they always have. Or will Americans, stuck in the military because all their other job opportunities have been shipped away by anti-American Greedheads, die in a war to protect the property of traitors?
 
upsideguy said:
The $1.2 million question: why does Germany enjoy a strong manufacturing base; with unions, national healthcare and higher taxes? They are not quick to ship their jobs overseas, even though they would get even greater savings (German factory workers tend to make more than their American counterparts). Part of the explanation for Germany is they have a much more equitable wealth distribution system, largely effected with their income tax system. Germany does not have the extreme poverty nor extreme wealth of the American cousins; and has a much stronger economy as they are net exporters of goods.
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Maybe you should check the facts first before you make up BS like this? Just because you read it or heard it somewhere does not make it true.

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the fact of the matter is this... a company, any company, that breaks with it's fiduciary duty to it's principals opens itself up to major civil litigation( for good reason)

empathy, patriotism, etc.. they all sound nice on paper ... but they are not defenses for breaking with fiduciary duty... they are simply ancillary emotions/motivations that stand a distant 2nd to fiduciary duty.

If say, Bain capital, were to go directly against their fiduciary duty to their principals, they can face being hauled into civil court and losing a **** ton of money, possibly everything... not only that, but they lose their reputation as good stewards of their fiduciary duty and will suffer in the future due to such a reputation.

investors, all investors, have one primary goal.. return on investment.... that is what makes the investment world go 'round.
ancillary motivations may be anything... but ROI is numero uno motivation, as it should be.
 
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