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Why Obama is likely to blow the second debate too

apdst

apdst

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Well, the reality keeps hitting the Obama campaign, everyday.


The short answer is: because he’s got nothing. There is no record to run on, no argument to make for four more years. The ideology that drives him is outdated and bankrupt. He has, in fact, implemented his policies – Republicans have had little means of stopping him – and those policies are the problem.

Why Obama is likely to blow the second debate too « Hot Air
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The fact you get all your information from far right sources is very telling.
 
I dont really see any objective reasoning in this source here, simply saying Obama will lose because his polices are wrong is saying nothing. If someone only looks at the candidate's policies as for why they will or won't lose the debate then they've already lost or won. Someone who agrees with Romney's positions will, if they only look at the substance of the debate, will of course think Romney wins in the end because he will say more that person agrees with than Obama. Likewise the same goes for Obama supporters, therefore for people who've already decided who they will vote for then the criteria for who wins or loses cannot be what their actual policies are but how they present them.

For example you'll find a lot of Obama supporters here who if you asked "who said more than you agree with" will of course pick Obama, if you asked "who presented their arguments better" many will say Romney even though they support Obama. Who "wins" depends on how you define winning, whether you define it by who says more you agree with or who presents better.

So again if you're a Romney support, or an Obama support, and say "My candidate will win because he'll say more things that I agree with than the other guy" then all I have to say is "well duh, what did you expect?"
 
I seem to recall a lot of Righties who were absolutely confident that Ryan would destroy Biden. :lamo
 
-bin laden dead
-GM and the car industry as a whole doing better than it did before the recession
-jobs have been created
-we have been staying on the general draw out of the Middle East
-more people are covered by insurance and Medicare is strengthened
-payroll tax is less
-DADT repealed
-better investments into science and education

That's off the top of my head. Here are some more for you: What the heck has Obama done so far?
 
apdst said:
Well, the reality keeps hitting the Obama campaign, everyday.
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...while Romney continues to contort himself into any position necessary to avoid reality at all costs.
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AdamT said:
I seem to recall a lot of Righties who were absolutely confident that Ryan would destroy Biden. :lamo
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Substantively he did... Biden just went psychopath on him... and you can't argue with crazy... you just stay out of its way... I felt bad for him, he looked like the poor girl I saw this morning on the subway trying to remain silent so the fat scrubby guy with the speech impediment would stop asking her things...

I'm curious though... Why you think its more significant that people thought Ryan would beat Biden rather than that few people felt Mitt Romney would use Obama like a swiffer, and yet, he did?


According to most polls 85%-10%-5% thought Romney won...
According to most polls 50%-35%-7%-7% thought Biden won...

Which do you think had a bigger impact on the course of this election?
 
IndepCentristMA said:
Substantively he did... Biden just went psychopath on him... and you can't argue with crazy... you just stay out of its way... I felt bad for him, he looked like the poor girl I saw this morning on the subway trying to remain silent so the fat scrubby guy with the speech impediment would stop asking her things...

I'm curious though... Why you think its more significant that people thought Ryan would beat Biden rather than that few people felt Mitt Romney would use Obama like a swiffer, and yet, he did?


According to most polls 85%-10%-5% thought Romney won...
According to most polls 50%-35%-7%-7% thought Biden won...

Which do you think had a bigger impact on the course of this election?
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While most dems here will refuse to admit that debate didn't have an effect ill be the first to say its made me nervous. Depending on how the polls look this next debate I'm gonna call it by Friday.
 
The only reason Obama is likely to have issues in the second debate would be if he tries to put too much focus on being aggressive and attacking. Obama in 2008 showed to be very adept at a deceptive form of debate attacking whereby he throws clear and unquestionable attacking punches but does so in a fashion that seems very civil or scholarly. This allows for the attacks to sink in while at the same time not rub the audience the wrong way by appearing emotional/annoyed/aggressive. There was a little of this in the first debate, but it was so lack luster in energy that it didn't happen often and the shots generally didn't land.

If Obama comes out as his normal debate self, with actual significant energy, then there's a good chance this is a draw or goes his way. If he comes out excessively attacking or aggressive however, it could very well backfire leading to the chance at a draw or going Romney's way.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Nah really Wiseone?

A website founded by Michelle Malkin lacks objective reasoning?

Well spotted :lol:
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The same two guys that think HuffPo is a good source are complaining about this one? Ok. Noted.
 
IndepCentristMA said:
Substantively he did... Biden just went psychopath on him... and you can't argue with crazy... you just stay out of its way... I felt bad for him, he looked like the poor girl I saw this morning on the subway trying to remain silent so the fat scrubby guy with the speech impediment would stop asking her things...

I'm curious though... Why you think its more significant that people thought Ryan would beat Biden rather than that few people felt Mitt Romney would use Obama like a swiffer, and yet, he did?


According to most polls 85%-10%-5% thought Romney won...
According to most polls 50%-35%-7%-7% thought Biden won...

Which do you think had a bigger impact on the course of this election?
Click to expand...

Substantively Ryan, like Romney, was making it up as he was going along, and thus he sure didn't win.

If people didn't expect Romney to win the first debate then they weren't paying attention to history. The challenger almost always wins the first presidential debate. Granted, Romney won it more convincingly than most expected.

Tonights debate will be interesting. It's akin to a football game where one team dominates the first half. Was it because that team was more talented? Or did that team do something to catch the other team by surprise -- something that can be countered by halftime adjustments? We'll see.

As far as which debate had a bigger impact, it was again predictable that the presidential debate would have the bigger impact. That is almost always the case. But it's worth noting that since the VP debate the polls have stopped moving in Romney's direction and are coming back a little towards Obama -- just about what I predicted.
 
JohnWOlin said:
-bin laden dead
-GM and the car industry as a whole doing better than it did before the recession
-jobs have been created
-we have been staying on the general draw out of the Middle East
-more people are covered by insurance and Medicare is strengthened
-payroll tax is less
-DADT repealed
-better investments into science and education

That's off the top of my head. Here are some more for you: What the heck has Obama done so far?
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OBL is dead because of Bush era intel and a great Seal team, all Barry did was reluctantly give the OK

GM is in terrible financial condition, the taxpayers will never get their money back

Net jobs have been lost every month, do you know the meaning of the word "net"

More americans have died in Afghanistan under obama than under bush

obama stole 716 billion from medicare, obamacare will destroy the medical industry and the insurance industry, it is a terrible bill

a temporary cut in the FICA withholding rate for political purposes does nothing but make the SS weaker

DADT---who cares?

investments like Solyndra? Woo Hooo!
 
apdst said:
Well, the reality keeps hitting the Obama campaign, everyday.




[/COLOR]
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Stuff and nonsense. One thing that the far right simply will not consider - they outright refuse to consider because it puts the spotlight upon them - is the reality that while Obama has been no second coming of FDR, the spectre of Romeny and a right wing controlled Congress is such a nightmare scenario for America that it makes even a mediocre president like Obama look more than acceptable by comparison.
 
AdamT said:
Substantively Ryan, like Romney, was making it up as he was going along, and thus he sure didn't win.

If people didn't expect Romney to win the first debate then they weren't paying attention to history. The challenger almost always wins the first presidential debate. Granted, Romney won it more convincingly than most expected.

Tonights debate will be interesting. It's akin to a football game where one team dominates the first half. Was it because that team was more talented? Or did that team do something to catch the other team by surprise -- something that can be countered by halftime adjustments? We'll see.

As far as which debate had a bigger impact, it was again predictable that the presidential debate would have the bigger impact. That is almost always the case. But it's worth noting that since the VP debate the polls have stopped moving in Romney's direction and are coming back a little towards Obama -- just about what I predicted.
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The polls are still moving pro Romney. Tonight will probably decide the election. If obama pulls a Biden, he is toast. If he repeats his first debate, he is toast. If he tries to defend his terrible record, he is toast.

The only way Romney can lose is if he falls asleep during one of obama's rants. Obama's problem is that he has no record to run on, and no plans to do anything different if he gets another term. why would anyone want 4 more years like the last 4? His whole campaign has been to paint Romney as some kind of evil corporatist who hates poor people. When the people see and hear the real Romney, they realize that the Obama campaign is nothing but lies and distortion---typical Axelrod Chicago dirty politics.
 
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haymarket said:
Stuff and nonsense. One thing that the far right simply will not consider - they outright refuse to consider because it puts the spotlight upon them - is the reality that while Obama has been no second coming of FDR, the spectre of Romeny and a right wing controlled Congress is such a nightmare scenario for America that it makes even a mediocre president like Obama look more than acceptable by comparison.
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Romney is not far right and neither are the majority of GOP congressmen. But, the fact is that Obama is as far left as anyone can possibly be, and he is joined on the far left by fools like pelosi and reid.
 
haymarket said:
Stuff and nonsense. One thing that the far right simply will not consider - they outright refuse to consider because it puts the spotlight upon them - is the reality that while Obama has been no second coming of FDR, the spectre of Romeny and a right wing controlled Congress is such a nightmare scenario for America that it makes even a mediocre president like Obama look more than acceptable by comparison.
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I don't consider balancing budgets and planning ahead for MediCare and SS a nightmare.

We've been 'kicking the can down the road' for 50 years.

That's what created our nightmare.
 
CedarBear said:
I don't consider balancing budgets and planning ahead for MediCare and SS a nightmare.

We've been 'kicking the can down the road' for 50 years.

That's what created our nightmare.
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But they will be a nightmare if they are used to betray our committments to the American people and the type of society we want in this nation. Social Security for example has not contributed one red cent to any debt or deficit. It should NOT be in that conversation.

The right will is going to use these issues to roll back much of the 20th century in terms of repealing progressive reforms.

That is the nightmare scenario and it must be stopped.
 
haymarket said:
Stuff and nonsense. One thing that the far right simply will not consider - they outright refuse to consider because it puts the spotlight upon them - is the reality that while Obama has been no second coming of FDR, the spectre of Romeny and a right wing controlled Congress is such a nightmare scenario for America that it makes even a mediocre president like Obama look more than acceptable by comparison.
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His policies have failed. How is that acceptable?
 
apdst said:
His policies have failed. How is that acceptable?
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Here is a list of Obama accomplishments

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/ma...tures/obamas_top_50_accomplishments035755.php

and more can be found here

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/0...sident-obamas-accomplishments-with-citations/

and this also

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/06/1128093/-President-Obama-s-Accomplishments-So-Far

What policies have failed?

The economy is making a comeback - slow but steady to be sure.

We are ending our foreign wars.

We have domestic peace.

He was able to get through a health care reform that no president has been able to do for 80 years.

He has reformed many government procedures and agencies.

He has a decent enough record.
 
haymarket said:
But they will be a nightmare if they are used to betray our committments to the American people and the type of society we want in this nation. Social Security for example has not contributed one red cent to any debt or deficit. It should NOT be in that conversation.

The right will is going to use these issues to roll back much of the 20th century in terms of repealing progressive reforms.

That is the nightmare scenario and it must be stopped.
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Really? You sure about that?

What progressive reforms do you fear losing?
 
The performance of the first debate was part of the rope a dope strategy and mitt played right into it. Biden did his part in slowing the republican momentum. Tonight Romney is going to take a pummeling from Obama ( the town hall format particularly plays to BHO's strengths), and in round three Obama will deliver the knockout blow. This thing has been over for Romney for weeks, it just doesn't seem like it since Romney supporters are just so loud. But volume does not win elections, strategy does.
 
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