VP debates: Energetic lively debate, one man lied like his life depended on it.

shiang · Oct 11, 2012

I thought the debate was close. Much livelier and fun to watch than the first presidential debate. Biden did a little better than Ryan. Ryan seemed to agree a little too much.

The most striking thing about this debate was not so much who won. But how much Ryan lied. His (Ryan's) presentation was fine, but the problem was he dodged left and right on answering questions directly and hardly said anything that was true.

He never really explained how the arithmetic would work out on tax cuts and what loopholes can be cut to even come close to compensating for the tax cuts.

He lied like his boss on medicare. Using words like projected to save himself some room for retreat.

He lied about tax hikes for the middle class, there's no such thing.

...there's something big I don't remember, and a few other things that were blatant lies.

There's usually not much new to these debates but one thing that struck me was when Biden pointed out that setting a deadline means the countries we're fighting wars in will feel a sense of urgency and step up as needed. Something I've never thought of.

MaggieD · Oct 11, 2012

shiang said:
I thought the debate was close. Much livelier and fun to watch than the first presidential debate. Biden did a little better than Ryan. Ryan seemed to agree a little too much.

The most striking thing about this debate was not so much who won. But how much Ryan lied. His (Ryan's) presentation was fine, but the problem was he dodged left and right on answering questions directly and hardly said anything that was true.

He never really explained how the arithmetic would work out on tax cuts and what loopholes can be cut to even come close to compensating for the tax cuts.

He lied like his boss on medicare. Using words like projected to save himself some room for retreat.

He lied about tax hikes for the middle class, there's no such thing.

There's usually not much new to these debates but one thing that struck me was when Biden pointed out that setting a deadline means the countries we're fighting wars in will feel a sense of urgency and step up as needed. Something I've never thought of.

As I answered in another thread, I rather think Biden took it.

No tax hike on the Middle Class? Ask those people who got their health insurance bills at the first of the year. And ask them again in January.

As for the reason one sets a deadline being so that our ally knows when we're going and that they need to step up? I doubt one has to announce that on CSPAN and NBC in order for that to happen.

Fisher · Oct 11, 2012

Ryan agreed too much but mostly lied? Curious assessment.

TurtleDude · Oct 11, 2012

MaggieD said:
As I answered in another thread, I rather think Biden took it.

No tax hike on the Middle Class? Ask those people who got their health insurance bills at the first of the year. And ask them again in January.

I find it amazing people thought Biden won. I guess after Obama getting thrashed biden did far better. Biden's rant about the tough sanctions on Iran was the biggest fail on the debate Ryan's fail was not hammering that.

Ryan came off better. I thought Ryan actually won the tax debate with the fact that a 100% tax on the rich would not solve any problems

Biden did a great job in scaring seniors on medicare though. That probably resonated with those who are dependent on that program

shiang · Oct 11, 2012

Fisher said:
Ryan agreed too much but mostly lied? Curious assessment.

He agreed more than he needed about 1/3 the time. Then lied for the rest of the 2/3 when he tries to contrast.

MaggieD · Oct 11, 2012

TurtleDude said:
I find it amazing people thought Biden won. I guess after Obama getting thrashed biden did far better. Biden's rant about the tough sanctions on Iran was the biggest fail on the debate Ryan's fail was not hammering that.

Ryan came off better. I thought Ryan actually won the tax debate with the fact that a 100% tax on the rich would not solve any problems

Biden did a great job in scaring seniors on medicare though. That probably resonated with those who are dependent on that program

I think our larger drug companies should start working on a time-release Pinocchio Drug made mandatory in these debates. Both of them would have probably poked what's-'er-name in the eye.

shiang · Oct 11, 2012

TurtleDude said:
I find it amazing people thought Biden won. I guess after Obama getting thrashed biden did far better. Biden's rant about the tough sanctions on Iran was the biggest fail on the debate Ryan's fail was not hammering that.

Ryan came off better. I thought Ryan actually won the tax debate with the fact that a 100% tax on the rich would not solve any problems

Biden did a great job in scaring seniors on medicare though. That probably resonated with those who are dependent on that program

This is what's so frustrating when Romney presents himself better we agree. When Biden out debates Ryan you guys just go into denial. It must be so frustrating for Obama because his base consists of some open minded people that are willing to change their votes, and Romney's base is full of wing nuts that won't change their mind even if Romney was a thief.... oh wait he is.

Velvet Elvis · Oct 11, 2012

TurtleDude said:
I thought Ryan actually won the tax debate with the fact that a 100% tax on the rich would not solve any problems

I think Biden started drooling at the thought of taxing rich people 100%. I give Ryan a ding for that one. Was like dangling welfare checks in front of an OccuTard rally.

Fisher · Oct 11, 2012

shiang said:
He agreed more than he needed about 1/3 the time. Then lied for the rest of the 2/3 when he tries to contrast.

Specifically when did you think there was too much agreement and when did the lies occurred? The Obama campaign lamenting like of bipartisanship would seemingly welcome agreement 1/3 of the time.

Bronson · Oct 11, 2012

Biden made a mockery of the debate with his arrogance and laughter as his record of failure was recited to him. He interrupted Ryan 82 times. He was rude and smirking into the camera. It will not go over well with the public.

The only thing people are going to take away from this debate is that Biden is not fit the hold office. He looked unstable and off his meds.

Fisher · Oct 11, 2012

MaggieD said:
I think our larger drug companies should start working on a time-release Pinocchio Drug made mandatory in these debates. Both of them would have probably poked what's-'er-name in the eye.

Perhaps they should mix it in with Viagra to see what happens

Biden totally lied on the Libyan attack misinformation question but otherwise they were just same crap different day IMHO.

Jonsa · Oct 11, 2012

TurtleDude said:
I find it amazing people thought Biden won. I guess after Obama getting thrashed biden did far better. Biden's rant about the tough sanctions on Iran was the biggest fail on the debate Ryan's fail was not hammering that.

But iranian sanctions are working and when called on it Ryan also said he was not advocating military action. His mixed signals accusation and percieved weakness of america is so much demogoguery with no substance. Biden had command of all of the activity going on and its current impact. The other major differenc is Ryan's cowboy approach of bluster and threat of violence, while Biden made it a point that the entire world supports iranian sanctions and that they are working. A threat of force certainly isn't going to change the ayatollah's mind, but a country with little food on the table, and goods to purchase and an economy in the dumper sure as hell does.

Ryan came off better. I thought Ryan actually won the tax debate with the fact that a 100% tax on the rich would not solve any problems

Again demogoguery. Nice little obvious fact of no relevance, since I know of nobody that would propose such an outrageous thing. But of course when the proposals call for a 3 to 4% tax increase on the wealthy its much better to get off that number and place the 100% number on the table. Its an effective and well used tactic on both parties part.

Biden did a great job in scaring seniors on medicare though. That probably resonated with those who are dependent on that program

He not only did a good job of scaring seniors, if those in the 20 to 40 age group stopped to consider for a moment, they'd start to be scared too of the future in a voucherized medical insurance system (it wouldn't be medicare). Every time I hear what a great idea it is to give people choice, I think of the little 80 year old lady trying to shop around for the best deal she can get.

shiang · Oct 12, 2012

Bronson said:
Biden made a mockery of the debate with his arrogance and laughter as his record of failure was recited to him. He interrupted Ryan 82 times. He was rude and smirking into the camera. It will not go over well with the public.

The only thing people are going to take away from this debate is that Biden is not fit the hold office. He looked unstable and off his meds.

He was smirking because Ryan was lying.

1 more lie I remembered Ryan said the Obama administration would raise taxes to upper 40%. Simply not true, the nominal tax is raised by at most 5%, with the highest bracket from 35% to 40%. Starting at 200k gradually up to the full 5% increase at close to 400k. The effective tax after deductions and what not would be raised from around 20%, to under 25%.

AdamT · Oct 12, 2012

Jonsa said:
But iranian sanctions are working and when called on it Ryan also said he was not advocating military action. His mixed signals accusation and percieved weakness of america is so much demogoguery with no substance. Biden had command of all of the activity going on and its current impact. The other major differenc is Ryan's cowboy approach of bluster and threat of violence, while Biden made it a point that the entire world supports iranian sanctions and that they are working. A threat of force certainly isn't going to change the ayatollah's mind, but a country with little food on the table, and goods to purchase and an economy in the dumper sure as hell does.

Biden could have done a better job on that. Ryan kept saying that the WH watered down the sanctions, but what actually happened is that they fought to get sanctions that would be accepted by China and Russia. You can pass the harshest sanctions imaginable, but if the Russians and Chinese don't go along they are totally worthless. That's what Ryan was advocating for: tough sounding but pragmatically useless sanctions.

shiang · Oct 12, 2012

Fisher said:
Specifically when did you think there was too much agreement and when did the lies occurred? The Obama campaign lamenting like of bipartisanship would seemingly welcome agreement 1/3 of the time.

I've pointed out a few of the big lies, posted 1 more later on page 2 on tax hike lies.

As for agreement I'll have to watch the video again but he agreed a lot, such as on the 2014 deadline for Afghanistan and supporting the rebels in Syria. To me the Agreements didn't have much effect but may come off weak to the general public. For me it's the incredible amount of lies one after another that repulsed me. Lies which would not register with an uneducated audience and be taken as true. On the issue of lies Romney lied much less than his running partner.

Erod · Oct 12, 2012

Ryan lied?

How about when Biden said he voted against the funding of both wars, when, in fact, he voted for both.

How blatant was that lie?

Tomorrow we'll see all the laughing of Biden during serious questions. Ryan looked serious. That won't play well for Obama.

Biden effed up yet again.

LiberalAvenger · Oct 12, 2012

TurtleDude; Biden did a great job in scaring seniors on medicare though. That probably resonated with those who are dependent on that program[/QUOTE said:
It did not scare me. It resonated with me.:2razz:

Erod · Oct 12, 2012

Sedeikis well destroy Biden on SNL. Not that it matters.

Jonsa · Oct 12, 2012

Erod said:
Ryan lied?

How about when Biden said he voted against the funding of both wars, when, in fact, he voted for both.

How blatant was that lie?

Tomorrow we'll see all the laughing of Biden during serious questions. Ryan looked serious. That won't play well for Obama.

Biden effed up yet again.

Yes, I thought Biden did a great job of smirking at the bull**** Ryan was trying to peddle, both in his criticisms of Obama and his non-explanations of his tickets most important policies.

Chuckling, smirking and shocked expressions are extremely effective when you don't want to come out and call your opponent a bald face liar. Biden made it plain to all americans his opinion of ryan as an individual and as a politician and as a potential vice president.

for those who share bidens attitude, he was terrific, for those that hate obama he was terrible, for those who actually think the sun shines outta Romney/Ryan's butts, he as disgustingly disrespectful. For me, I thought Biden was refreshing.

And, as for lies, I'll wager that the count is going to be heavily in Ryans' favour.

Particularly that whole bi-partisan schtick.
Apparently the Republican campaign has totally forgotten the bullying tea partiers who came to washington singing the NO Compromise song. They even killed the single most important bi-partisan agreement made - boehner/obama grand bargain. No mention of the record number of filabusters they used. No mention of voting no on everything dems put on the table.
And Ryan - who was a leader of the no compromise movement has the stones to say that their economic plan and their tax plan will be fleshed out in a bi-partisan fashion? Serious stones on that boy.

mike2810 · Oct 12, 2012

shiang said:
This is what's so frustrating when Romney presents himself better we agree. When Biden out debates Ryan you guys just go into denial. It must be so frustrating for Obama because his base consists of some open minded people that are willing to change their votes, and Romney's base is full of wing nuts that won't change their mind even if Romney was a thief.... oh wait he is.

What I disliked was Biden laugh,smile,smirks, and interruptions. I do think Biden at times debated well. Ryan seemed to show a great deal of calm when Biden interrupted.

I look at it this way. All politicians tell half truths or skip over details when it may show them in a bad light. What people have to realize whoever becomes President, they have to get most of their agenda through Congress. So its is mute what Biden or Ryan spouts in support of Obama/Romney.

and as far as your last statement. Could not that also be said about Obama's base. they won't change their minds even if Obama has lied to us. oh wait, he most likely has. (See partison politics is crazy :mrgreen

Mycroft · Oct 12, 2012

Bronson said:
Biden made a mockery of the debate with his arrogance and laughter as his record of failure was recited to him. He interrupted Ryan 82 times. He was rude and smirking into the camera. It will not go over well with the public.

The only thing people are going to take away from this debate is that Biden is not fit the hold office. He looked unstable and off his meds.

This was my impression as well.

I won't say either one won, but that fake, condescending laugh of his just irritated the piss out of me.

shiang · Oct 12, 2012

mike2810 said:
What I disliked was Biden laugh,smile,smirks, and interruptions. I do think Biden at times debated well. Ryan seemed to show a great deal of calm when Biden interrupted.

I look at it this way. All politicians tell half truths or skip over details when it may show them in a bad light. What people have to realize whoever becomes President, they have to get most of their agenda through Congress. So its is mute what Biden or Ryan spouts in support of Obama/Romney.

and as far as your last statement. Could not that also be said about Obama's base. they won't change their minds even if Obama has lied to us. oh wait, he most likely has. (See partisan politics is crazy :mrgreen

Some of the base yes. But liberals do tend to stray more from their party, and split votes on ballots. Conservatives are more likely to to consistently vote down the line without fail.

LiberalAvenger · Oct 12, 2012

Erod said:
Sedeikis well destroy Biden on SNL. Not that it matters.

Yeah. Don't those liberals piss you off?

frogloe · Oct 12, 2012

Erod said:
Ryan lied?

How about when Biden said he voted against the funding of both wars, when, in fact, he voted for both.

How blatant was that lie?

Tomorrow we'll see all the laughing of Biden during serious questions. Ryan looked serious. That won't play well for Obama.

Biden effed up yet again.

Did he really vote for both? Can I have a source here, I'd like a little evidence.

And I don't think anybody who isn't so right winged that they have to use a crutch to keep standing straight really cared that much about Biden's snickers. Different people have different ways of dealing with stress. Some people try to laugh it off. And don't come to me with "he was stressed because Ryan was right". They were both stressed. Also, Biden probably got more worked up than Ryan. But that's just a Biden thing. On the same note, I think there is a general consensus that Biden played his cards better. I don't think Biden really screwed up.

MMC · Oct 12, 2012

Like I said in the other thread.....

Vice President Biden and Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) traded furious blows Thursday night in a highly contentious vice presidential debate.

There was no clear winner in the first and only showdown between the vice presidential candidates, with both sides making strong cases for their running mates at the top of their respective tickets. But perhaps the most prominent feature of the debate in Danville, Ky., was Biden’s incredulous demeanor. The vice president repeatedly dismissed Ryan with laughter, eye rolling and even an “Oh, god!” in an evening of quips and comebacks.....snip~

Biden and Ryan exchange verbal blows in contentious debate - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room

Course the Hill out of D.C. and all their writers wouldn't know what they were talking about either......huh?

Yeah Biden wins for showing he was good off the cuff with his comebacks. He needed to hit a grand slam to change the polls direction. He got a double and then was thrown out heading to the plate.

Hence Obama crying about the GOP politicizing issues over Libya. Now with more and more coming out to prove his Administraions Incompetancy and the dropping of the ball. Do you think Obama should be mentioning the word Polticize while on his Blame game?

Notice with Joe......we inherited this mess blah blah blah.

Here's one for Joe and Team Obama.....Does any who get Elected whether from the Left or the Right, inherit what they are walking into? DUH!!!!!

VP debates: Energetic lively debate, one man lied like his life depended on it.

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