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VP debates: Energetic lively debate, one man lied like his life depended on it.

From Daily Kos.....The Demos and lefts peeps, Right?

If anyone fancies making their opinion on tonight's debate know, here are a few web-polls unceremoniously yanked all-but randomly from across the web (at the time of posting, the results seem varied, but quite a few have Ryan winning, which, umm... wasn't what I saw!):

CNBC

The Ed Show (MSNBC)

HuffPo

CNN (bottom-right of page)

WBSM

Arizona Central (middle-right of page)

KSTP

WQAD

Cincinnati.com

KFYO

MarketWatch (WSJ)

WSJ

Annapolis Herald Mail

ABC (middle-right of page)

Denver Post (middle-right of page)

NY Daily News

Kansas City Star

Washington Post (main poll)

E.J. Dionne's Washington Post Opinion page (middle-right of page)

Daily Kos: Links to post VP-debate polls.
<<<<< More Here

According to most of these polls by Daily Kos.....Ryan is being depicted as the Winner. Now most of these polls are favoring Ryan. Joe needed to Be Like Smoke. Instead he came out like the Fog! :2razz:


Then I guess I can accept that the left and the Demos own thinking on the matter. Especially when it's their own words.
 
Bronson said:
Biden made a mockery of the debate with his arrogance and laughter as his record of failure was recited to him. He interrupted Ryan 82 times. He was rude and smirking into the camera. It will not go over well with the public.

The only thing people are going to take away from this debate is that Biden is not fit the hold office. He looked unstable and off his meds.
Click to expand...

Guess you watched it on Fox News...
 
shiang said:
I thought the debate was close. Much livelier and fun to watch than the first presidential debate. Biden did a little better than Ryan. Ryan seemed to agree a little too much.

The most striking thing about this debate was not so much who won. But how much Ryan lied. His (Ryan's) presentation was fine, but the problem was he dodged left and right on answering questions directly and hardly said anything that was true.

He never really explained how the arithmetic would work out on tax cuts and what loopholes can be cut to even come close to compensating for the tax cuts.

He lied like his boss on medicare. Using words like projected to save himself some room for retreat.

He lied about tax hikes for the middle class, there's no such thing.

...there's something big I don't remember, and a few other things that were blatant lies.


There's usually not much new to these debates but one thing that struck me was when Biden pointed out that setting a deadline means the countries we're fighting wars in will feel a sense of urgency and step up as needed. Something I've never thought of.
Click to expand...


I think that Biden won the debate, Ryan seemed just a tad to reserved, Biden lost points on being snide and complaining about his time ( which once again favored Dem’s)

Biden also lost points on the Embassy attack, I got to think he fudged there. Now if he didn’t and this is what the intelligence told them, then I have to question if there is any truth in us knowing just how close Iran is to having a bomb, because once again Biden used the intelligence community for his information.

On the removal of troops from Afghanistan, I think both were good, Biden saying that when they know the dead line date, they know they will have to step up …. And Ryan saying that you don’t advertise your withdrawal dates. Both are valid points.

Being on the conservative side, I am really getting sick of hearing how the Romney/Ryan plan can’t work. When is someone going to just step back and ask them ….. Okay what is your plan ??? From everything I can dig up, their plan is to let the Bush tax cuts expire…. Other then that they have nothing.
If anyone on either side thinks that is the fix all for our economy, or deficit spending, or or debt they have their head in the sand. So lets see the “details” of your plan ….. That doesn’t exist.

It’s the same with SS and Medicare, sure both might last another 10 years before they become a problem, so I guess the Obama/Biden plan is to just wait it out, and hope things get better. I’m sorry in my opinion that isn’t much of a plan. When you know you have a problem coming up in the near future, it’s best to start taking steps now rather then wait until it becomes a crisis. It’s that type of thinking that allowed this last recession to be as bad as it is. A do nothing attitude gets nothing done.

There was not enough discussion about what should be the number one subject .. JOBS, JOBS, and more JOBS….

All that said .. Biden still won the debate, but I don’t think it was by enough that you will see any big swing in the over all scheme of things.
 
shiang said:
He agreed more than he needed about 1/3 the time. Then lied for the rest of the 2/3 when he tries to contrast.
Click to expand...

Hogwash - being in contradiction to the Obama/Biden agenda does not make one a liar.

The only outright lies last night came from Biden. Those involve the Libya debacle.

The other "lies" you attribute to Ryan are actually his setting straight the actual lies of the POTUS' campaign. Their campaign is a bundle of lies and deflection. Setting that straight is not a lie.

It takes a warped sense of reality to think otherwise.
 
The Barbarian said:
I think that Biden won the debate, Ryan seemed just a tad to reserved, Biden lost points on being snide and complaining about his time ( which once again favored Dem’s)

Biden also lost points on the Embassy attack, I got to think he fudged there. Now if he didn’t and this is what the intelligence told them, then I have to question if there is any truth in us knowing just how close Iran is to having a bomb, because once again Biden used the intelligence community for his information.

On the removal of troops from Afghanistan, I think both were good, Biden saying that when they know the dead line date, they know they will have to step up …. And Ryan saying that you don’t advertise your withdrawal dates. Both are valid points.

Being on the conservative side, I am really getting sick of hearing how the Romney/Ryan plan can’t work. When is someone going to just step back and ask them ….. Okay what is your plan ??? From everything I can dig up, their plan is to let the Bush tax cuts expire…. Other then that they have nothing.
If anyone on either side thinks that is the fix all for our economy, or deficit spending, or or debt they have their head in the sand. So lets see the “details” of your plan ….. That doesn’t exist.

It’s the same with SS and Medicare, sure both might last another 10 years before they become a problem, so I guess the Obama/Biden plan is to just wait it out, and hope things get better. I’m sorry in my opinion that isn’t much of a plan. When you know you have a problem coming up in the near future, it’s best to start taking steps now rather then wait until it becomes a crisis. It’s that type of thinking that allowed this last recession to be as bad as it is. A do nothing attitude gets nothing done.

There was not enough discussion about what should be the number one subject .. JOBS, JOBS, and more JOBS….

All that said .. Biden still won the debate, but I don’t think it was by enough that you will see any big swing in the over all scheme of things.
Click to expand...

Well said - I agree with all you said, but would like to add that Ryan looked much more 'presidential' last night because of his demeanor. Biden looked like a fifth grader trying to impress a potential girl friend with all his idiotic gestures and inappropriate smile/laughing. His constant interruptions brand him as just another DEM thug when confronted with a difficult situation that he cannot handle intellectually.

Shame on him. I know he was playing to excited the brainless DEMs in Obama's base of support, but I doubt any thinking independent, undecided voter could stomach his juvenile drama.

If he had acted like a gentleman, perhaps he would have won over a few independents.
 
Since social networking heated up with assessment of Biden as being rude all through the debate and social networking favors the young, I am not sure that some apologists get that saying what you want someone to say makes that person the "winner".
 
shiang said:
This is what's so frustrating when Romney presents himself better we agree. When Biden out debates Ryan you guys just go into denial. It must be so frustrating for Obama because his base consists of some open minded people that are willing to change their votes, and Romney's base is full of wing nuts that won't change their mind even if Romney was a thief.... oh wait he is.
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he did not out debate Ryan--he interrupted constantly and those of you who were upset that a smarter Romney took apart a passive Obama were happy that by far the least intelligent man in this race was aggressive and rude rather than a wimp
 
TurtleDude said:
he did not out debate Ryan--he interrupted constantly and those of you who were upset that a smarter Romney took apart a passive Obama were happy that by far the least intelligent man in this race was aggressive and rude rather than a wimp
Click to expand...

Those saying Biden "won" this debate would say that a union thug "won" a debate about nuclear fusion by barging in and tearing up the demonstration model and hitting the presenter over the head with a ball-peen hammer.
 
frogloe said:
Did he really vote for both? Can I have a source here, I'd like a little evidence.

And I don't think anybody who isn't so right winged that they have to use a crutch to keep standing straight really cared that much about Biden's snickers. Different people have different ways of dealing with stress. Some people try to laugh it off. And don't come to me with "he was stressed because Ryan was right". They were both stressed. Also, Biden probably got more worked up than Ryan. But that's just a Biden thing. On the same note, I think there is a general consensus that Biden played his cards better. I don't think Biden really screwed up.
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I suspect you would have the same view if Biden pulled a Gallagher and showed up with a watermelon and a wooden sledge to smash into Ryan's face during closing statements.
 
Bronson said:
Biden made a mockery of the debate with his arrogance and laughter as his record of failure was recited to him. He interrupted Ryan 82 times. He was rude and smirking into the camera. It will not go over well with the public.

The only thing people are going to take away from this debate is that Biden is not fit the hold office. He looked unstable and off his meds.
Click to expand...

First of all I'm not an Oboma/Biden supporter but I think Biden did do well and possibly even won. However his demeanor is what threw me off. To much laughing and smirking. Other than that though I was suprised at how well he did. I'm not sure how most feels about that but to me it means something. You didn't see it from Ryan and that would be why I would give a slight edge to Ryan. I also thought the moderator interrupted Ryan a lot more and he wasn't able to finish what he was trying to say several times. It seemed like she was trying to protect Biden a little more. Only my opinion but I would like to see just how many times she did cut him before he was finished versus how many Biden was interrupted.
 
shiang said:
This is what's so frustrating when Romney presents himself better we agree. When Biden out debates Ryan you guys just go into denial. It must be so frustrating for Obama because his base consists of some open minded people that are willing to change their votes, and Romney's base is full of wing nuts that won't change their mind even if Romney was a thief.... oh wait he is.
Click to expand...

Since the public consensus was that Romney did very well and Obama did not and now that the common consensus is that it was a draw, then "Biden out debates Ryan" is not denial. A sitting Vice-President with a lifetime in public service should have been able to wipe the floor with Ryan on issues and performance, but he did not. People heard what they wanted to hear. Nothing more.
 
TurtleDude said:
he did not out debate Ryan--he interrupted constantly and those of you who were upset that a smarter Romney took apart a passive Obama were happy that by far the least intelligent man in this race was aggressive and rude rather than a wimp
Click to expand...

Thas Right TD.....82 times out of 90 minute Debate. Used the term friend how many times? At least 10 within 2 mins.

Ryan did what he needed to do. Show Respect and get in and get out with no damage. Thats what he did.

Biden did what he was suppose to do according to those pundits and MS media hosts. Stir up Obama base.

Although I would Note BILBO's Words, "well, Joe was asked to go in and do the Impossible". Anyone seeing that twinkling in Bilbo's eye? Looks like he will have to do all he can to make sure Hillary does not draw the heat from Obama's Incompetant Foreign Policy.
 
shiang said:
This is what's so frustrating when Romney presents himself better we agree. When Biden out debates Ryan you guys just go into denial. It must be so frustrating for Obama because his base consists of some open minded people that are willing to change their votes, and Romney's base is full of wing nuts that won't change their mind even if Romney was a thief.... oh wait he is.
Click to expand...
If it helps ease your frustration....

If I had to score it like a 15 round fight I'd give it to Biden 8-7 or 9-6. The guy does speak from a very deep well of experience.
 
shiang said:
I thought the debate was close. Much livelier and fun to watch than the first presidential debate. Biden did a little better than Ryan. Ryan seemed to agree a little too much.

The most striking thing about this debate was not so much who won. But how much Ryan lied. His (Ryan's) presentation was fine, but the problem was he dodged left and right on answering questions directly and hardly said anything that was true.



He never really explained how the arithmetic would work out on tax cuts and what loopholes can be cut to even come close to compensating for the tax cuts.

He lied like his boss on medicare. Using words like projected to save himself some room for retreat.

He lied about tax hikes for the middle class, there's no such thing.

...there's something big I don't remember, and a few other things that were blatant lies.


There's usually not much new to these debates but one thing that struck me was when Biden pointed out that setting a deadline means the countries we're fighting wars in will feel a sense of urgency and step up as needed. Something I've never thought of.
Click to expand...



Make no mistake...if romny/ryan is elected medicare and social security are going to get raped for future middleclass...and if anything else they will say CONGRESS DID IT we just didnt veto it....there will be many things attacked by the far right house and of course the rich will get another huge tax cut....to enhance their richness at everyone elses expense...There will be NO meaningful loopholes cut that cost the rich a dime
 
dI did not hear ryan answer one question. He just kept spinning all the time like a top on crystal meth.

Biden's smirking tactic was great. It kept ryan flustered during the debate.
 
lpast said:
Make no mistake...if romny/ryan is elected medicare and social security are going to get raped for future middleclass...and if anything else they will say CONGRESS DID IT we just didnt veto it....there will be many things attacked by the far right house and of course the rich will get another huge tax cut....to enhance their richness at everyone elses expense...There will be NO meaningful loopholes cut that cost the rich a dime
Click to expand...
You're buying into scare tactics... but the fact is we ALL have a reason to be afraid.

Medicare and Social Security are in BIG trouble and denying the problem is not going to fix them. The fact is something has to be done. I applaud Romney/Ryan for at least putting the issue on the table. The Democrats won't even go there which tells me that their plan is to ignore it right up until the point where we are starring into the abyss and then at the last second thrusting a massive tax hike on all of us in the name of averting a "crisis".
 
Jack Fabulous said:
You're buying into scare tactics... but the fact is we ALL have a reason to be afraid.

Medicare and Social Security are in BIG trouble and denying the problem is not going to fix them. The fact is something has to be done. I applaud Romney/Ryan for at least putting the issue on the table. The Democrats won't even go there which tells me that their plan is to ignore it right up until the point where we are starring into the abyss and then at the last second thrusting a massive tax hike on all of us in the name of averting a "crisis".
Click to expand...

We could save a lot of money by getting the heck out of afghanistan, for starters. A few trillion here, a few trillion there and pretty soon we are talking real money.
 
LiberalAvenger said:
We could save a lot of money by getting the heck out of afghanistan, for starters. A few trillion here, a few trillion there and pretty soon we are talking real money.
Click to expand...
If we pulled out of Afghanistan today our deficit would still be close to a trillion dollars. Sure, it would at least be "something" but in the greater scheme of things it's little more than chump change.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
You're buying into scare tactics... but the fact is we ALL have a reason to be afraid.

Medicare and Social Security are in BIG trouble and denying the problem is not going to fix them. The fact is something has to be done. I applaud Romney/Ryan for at least putting the issue on the table. The Democrats won't even go there which tells me that their plan is to ignore it right up until the point where we are starring into the abyss and then at the last second thrusting a massive tax hike on all of us in the name of averting a "crisis".
Click to expand...

Social Security is not that hard to fix. Riasing the income cutoff and/or the retirement age will take care of it.

Medicare needs much more help. Obamacare helps by cutting over $700 billion in provider overcharge payments. That extends the solvency of the program by eight years. Romney/Ryan now want to eliminate that provision. Obviously that makes Medicare less sustainable -- not more.

Biden missed the opportunity to point out that the same cut was included in Ryan's first budget, which Romney said he would have signed. But Ryan dropped that support in his recent revision. It appears that he did so for political rather than policy reasons.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
If we pulled out of Afghanistan today our deficit would still be close to a trillion dollars. Sure, it would at least be "something" but in the greater scheme of things it's little more than chump change.
Click to expand...

Thanks. After you said that I feel much better about the wars. Heck, we need a few more since they only cost chump change, carry on.
 
LiberalAvenger said:
dI did not hear ryan answer one question. He just kept spinning all the time like a top on crystal meth.

Biden's smirking tactic was great. It kept ryan flustered during the debate.
Click to expand...

bilde


vp-debate-1jpg-db2b66c229d5bc21.jpg


photo.jpg


Hard tellin[/COLOR].....as Ryan has never ever looked flustered before at any time. Not ever since he entered Politics. Course even the lefts pundits give him his props for not showing any chink in his armor.

SO I wouldnt confuse respect with flustered. As Ryan was always taught to respect his elders. ;)
 
Shiang: "He lied like his boss on medicare. Using words like projected to save himself some room for retreat. He lied about tax hikes for the middle class, there's no such thing."

Ah, in libspeak, calling a projected saving is to "save himself some room for retreat". Calling a projected savings a savings is for liberals honesty and for the real world, a lie.

The middle-class is looking at significant tax hikes. Being totally in denial doesn't change the fact. VP Biden promised a $1,000,000,000 tax increase. Obamacare is replete with tax increases and thousands of IRS agents to enforce them.

VP Biden laughed through the "debate". Interrupted Rep. Ryan 82 times as if rules don't apply to him and his. Lied and avoided answering. In other words, he was a liberal.
 
Patrickt said:
Shiang: "He lied like his boss on medicare. Using words like projected to save himself some room for retreat. He lied about tax hikes for the middle class, there's no such thing."

Ah, in libspeak, calling a projected saving is to "save himself some room for retreat". Calling a projected savings a savings is for liberals honesty and for the real world, a lie.

The middle-class is looking at significant tax hikes. Being totally in denial doesn't change the fact. VP Biden promised a $1,000,000,000 tax increase. Obamacare is replete with tax increases and thousands of IRS agents to enforce them.

VP Biden laughed through the "debate". Interrupted Rep. Ryan 82 times as if rules don't apply to him and his. Lied and avoided answering. In other words, he was a liberal.
Click to expand...

Seriously? The "thousands of IRS agents" canard has been debunked so many times.
 
AdamT said:
Social Security is not that hard to fix. Riasing the income cutoff and/or the retirement age will take care of it.
Click to expand...

One thing I am not sure it totally true, but if it is, we can probably agree on this point....It is my understanding that the cut off for SS withholding is something like $110K. My question is why do I have to pay withholding on 100% of my pay, when someone making say $200K only has to pay on a little more than half of what they make? I say eliminate those caps and see where we are.

Medicare needs much more help. Obamacare helps by cutting over $700 billion in provider overcharge payments. That extends the solvency of the program by eight years. Romney/Ryan now want to eliminate that provision. Obviously that makes Medicare less sustainable -- not more.
Click to expand...

There are two problematic things in this section...

1. Obamacare is cutting compensation to doctors and hospitals, that have been reported to be a potential cause for Hospitals, and Doctors no longer taking on new Medicare patients.

2. Romney/Ryan's plan doesn't just eliminate those cuts, what it says is that the $716Billion that Obama/Biden stole from Medicare to pay for Obamacare, and puts it back into Medicare increasing stability, and they do that by repeal, and replacing Obamacare which is on the whole unpopular with the majority of Americans today.

Biden missed the opportunity to point out that the same cut was included in Ryan's first budget, which Romney said he would have signed. But Ryan dropped that support in his recent revision. It appears that he did so for political rather than policy reasons.
Click to expand...

Again, that is just misrepresentation. Ryan pulled his support because according to Ryan, the final draft of the bill had changed to not address Medicare, and entitlements in it.

I don't know how you do business, but I don't make a deal, then change it at the end and think that the other party is just going to say 'ok, we had a deal', no. It was a dishonest way of trying to backdoor what Obama couldn't get in negotiation.
 
My wife, who's a Democrat, turned the debate off early on because she was annoyed at Biden laughing the whole time. Thought it was disrespectful and that he looked like an ass.
 
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