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What Everyone Needs to Know Before Watching the VP Debate

Loki97, Your statement may be correct with some corporations but not all of them. I happen to be the founder and President of a small commercial construction company that I started in 1983. Because of current federal regulations, some of my employees actually make more money than I make on public funded projects. I'm the 1st person to arrive to work and the last person to leave each day. It doesn't matter to them if my company shows a profit or not. ALL OF THE RISK IS ON ME! I used to prefer the old quote "Don't criticise someone unless you are willing to walk a mile in their shoes" however in today's society, a new addition to that phrase should be added...."but if you do criticise them, just remember you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes!"

I wasn't referring to businesses like yours in that analogy. I was referencing corporations like Exxon, Bain, and wherever Mitt is currently raking in 20M a year without working because he's campaigning.
 
Have you considered restructuring your company so that your employees have a stake in its' success? Just sayin'....

I tried that a couple of years ago with three of my key employees.....2 of them BTW have been with me for over 20 years. I showed them the actual company's net worth and offered them any % of it they wanted. They didn't want to "take the risk". I can't say that I blame them. Really.....All I'm trying to say is that it's not always as great from the employers side as many employees may think. All I care about in this election is the economy and jobs, smaller government, and less able bodied people sucking off of the system that my taxes are paying for.
 
Again, you avoid actually learning what the terms you throw around mean. Google Ponzi or pyramid scheme wiki. At least spend a couple minutes before continuing on looking like a fool. In order for folks to receive SS funds, many more folks have to be actively paying in. Once the pyramid gets top heavy it fails.

Compare the Bernie Maddoff ponzi scheme with Social Security. I don't get the connection at all, but I'm sure you can break it down specifically for me.
 
Compare the Bernie Maddoff ponzi scheme with Social Security. I don't get the connection at all, but I'm sure you can break it down specifically for me.

You just keep running from learning what the words actually mean. LOOK UP PONZI SCHEME. Maddoff didn't invent ponzi schemes, no one here, but maybe you, thinks he did. Maddoff has nothing to do with SS being a pyramid scheme. It has to do with the basic structure of the payout.
 
You just keep running from learning what the words actually mean. LOOK UP PONZI SCHEME. Maddoff didn't invent ponzi schemes, no one here, but maybe you, thinks he did. Maddoff has nothing to do with SS being a pyramid scheme. It has to do with the basic structure of the payout.

So, you made a statement and can't defend it. Despite being given an example of a ponzi scheme.

What Is a Ponzi Scheme - Bernie Madoff Ponzi Scheme Explained

On March 12, 2009, Bernie Madoff pled guilty to the largest Ponzi scheme in history. He successfully swindled investors out of $65 billion. Although many Wall Street experts revered Madoff as a genius, many financial professionals were not surprised to learn that he was one of the biggest crooks they had ever come across. Some people were afraid they’d be ostracized if they spoke out against Madoff, and they simply kept quiet about their concerns about his investment portfolio and earnings.

Unfortunately, Ponzi schemes are fairly common, but this one was one of a kind. Most Ponzi schemes operate on a very small scale, but Madoff was clearly a big thinker who caused major damage.
Background on Ponzi Schemes

Ponzi schemes are fairly complex, even when they operate on a small scale. Unlike pyramid schemes, in which victims unknowingly rope in more targets, Ponzi schemes rely on a single person or group to coordinate every aspect of the fraud. To keep the scam going, the masterminds behind the plan convince numerous victims that they’re investing in a legitimate fund that promises great returns. Then the scam artists take money from new ”investors” and use it to pay off existing investors. But for the scam to truly work to everyone’s benefit, the orchestrators would need access to an infinite supply of new victims.

So, you don't understand a ponzi scheme.

I think we are done talking.
 
You just keep running from learning what the words actually mean. LOOK UP PONZI SCHEME. Maddoff didn't invent ponzi schemes, no one here, but maybe you, thinks he did. Maddoff has nothing to do with SS being a pyramid scheme. It has to do with the basic structure of the payout.

So now you changed it to a pyramid scheme?

What is it with knee-jerk leftists that they think Rush is the goto guy? Heck, you probably listen to more of him than most of us here - something he counts on to stay on the air.

But no, for the young and under-educated, folks have likened SS to a Ponzi/pyramid scheme since the day it was enacted. It operates as one. If you had taken the time to educate yourself on what a Ponzi scheme is, you'd see that.


'Because that's not what you focused on originally.

Show me a pyramid scheme and how this compares to social security if you can.
 
Im still waiting for Obama to admit to his support of Odinga and to come clean on his illegal land deal with Rezko..adn that he knew all about Rev Wrights bigotry and that he sat in a BLT church for 20 years..

You think Stupid Joe has a chance? this is not hair club for men..

all I know for sure is libs are desperate..

I think they are too. But please don't call the Vice President stupid. He does have a terrible case of foot-in-mouth disease, but he's not stupid.
 
You just keep running from learning what the words actually mean. LOOK UP PONZI SCHEME. Maddoff didn't invent ponzi schemes, no one here, but maybe you, thinks he did. Maddoff has nothing to do with SS being a pyramid scheme. It has to do with the basic structure of the payout.



Here. I'll help you get started

HowStuffWorks "Famous Pyramid Schemes"

One famous type of pyramid scheme is known as a gifting scheme. These often have names like dinner party, women empowering women, dinner club, circle of friends or women's empowerment network. This scheme is a naked pyramid scheme in which new participants "buy in" with a set amount of money that is "donated" to the person who recruits them. They, in turn, are required to recruit more people. As you collect more recruits, you move up the pyramid, sometimes with colorful names like the "salad level" and "dessert level" [source: Pyramid Scheme Alert]. Recruits are promised a substantial lump sum once they reach the peak level. These schemes often target women with the idea that through collective donations they're helping each other earn more money.

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment plan in which the money isn't invested at all. Instead, every new investment is used to pay off earlier investors. In 1920, Charles Ponzi ran a scam promising New Englanders a 50 percent rate of return in 45 days for a convoluted investment involving international mail coupons [source: The New York Times].

. . .

Affinity schemes are pyramid schemes that target certain ethnic or religious groups. The scammer presents him or herself as a member of that group and sells the pyramid scheme as a way for people to "give back" to the community while providing job opportunities for other members [source: New York State Office of the Attorney General]. Scammers try to lure in prominent members of the community first to set an example.

One of the hottest pyramid schemes continues to be the penny stock scams that are promoted through spam e-mail messages. The e-mails tout "incredible investment opportunities" to get in "on the ground floor" on a stock that's about to "take off!" The inner workings of penny stock schemes are complicated, but here's an overview:

So, compare these pyramid schemes to Social Security
 
what you need to think about while watching the VP debate tonight:

Which of these guys do you want to be one heartbeat away from being president?

Neither of them.
 
So now you changed it to a pyramid scheme?




'Because that's not what you focused on originally.

Show me a pyramid scheme and how this compares to social security if you can.

I'd lead the charge to get Romney's face on Mount Rushmore if he ended Social Security. Hopefully Ryan can convince him to push for such a change.
 
Examples?

Show me a maddoff ponzi scheme correlation to Social Security. Only if republicans destroy social security does anyone lose. In a ponzi scheme with bernie maddoff, ALL investors lost. I know a few generations who have collected the ONLY guaranteed retirement plan of social security.

You are incorrect, not all participants in Madoff's ponzi scheme lost, that's the main part of a ponzi scheme you don't understand. Many early investors and even some later ones made money because that's how a ponzi scheme starts as a successful operation.

People hear about how their friends made money on this one special investor who has figured out how to beat the market. If my friend made this kind of return, they why can't idea. In this situation, the ponzi schemer provides return to the early investors not because he really has an unknown insight into the market but because he his taking some of the money from his new investors and pays off his old investors. In a ponzi scheme, eventually you run out of new investors and the old investors can't be paid anymore.

Still don't think any of Madoff's investors didn't make any money. Then take a close look at what happened to the owners of the New York Mets. They did make money and the government went after them in order to retrieve that money. I'm not clear that they went after any others.

How is Social Security similar? There is a whole lot more investors who are mandated to invest. They do not get an immediate return so the payout is slower and it takes a lot longer to run out of money. The return being provided continues to grow beyond what is put into the scheme through increased benefit payouts (cost of living, etc.). Couple all this with the fact that people are living longer and there are some major demographic swings so that the ratio of people paying in to the ratio of people collecting gets smaller and smaller. It is only an issue of time until the dynamics change: major baby boom; some kind of epidemic that wipes out older people; or less major items such as increasing the age before collecting or lowering the amount collected.

Your example has been given.
 
In the same vein, corporations are pyramid schemes where a small number of people who started the enterprise reach a point where they do very little real work while profiting immensely off the labor of those under them whose compensation pales in comparison.

Nice talking points but untrue and not bright. Corporations are not like Ponzi Schemes. Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme.
 
Neither of them.

Well, one of them will be a heartbeat away from being president. Do you want a buffoon or an intelligent guy who actually understands that the govt cannot continue to spend more than it takes in.?
 
Well, one of them will be a heartbeat away from being president. Do you want a buffoon or an intelligent guy who actually understands that the govt cannot continue to spend more than it takes in.?


They're both buffoons. I don't give a **** which one it is. Biden's been a heartbeat away for 4 years and we've managed to avert the end of the world.
 
I tried that a couple of years ago with three of my key employees.....2 of them BTW have been with me for over 20 years. I showed them the actual company's net worth and offered them any % of it they wanted. They didn't want to "take the risk". I can't say that I blame them. Really.....All I'm trying to say is that it's not always as great from the employers side as many employees may think. All I care about in this election is the economy and jobs, smaller government, and less able bodied people sucking off of the system that my taxes are paying for.

There are other ways to go about it besides direct ownership. For example you could reduce their salary and add a bonus based on company performance. Or combine a profit sharing bonus with a performance bonus.
 
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