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Questions About "The Truth" for Romney Supporters

PW4000

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Candidate Romney, just announced (again) in front of a small crowed that same refrain that he's altered several times on the campaign trail. Romney, said:

"The president has not signed one new free trade agreement in the past four years."

Source: CNN Romney's foreign policy twilight zone - CNN.com


Fact:

The President actually signed three (3) trade deals.

US-Korea Trade Agreement: #1
U.S.-Colombia Trade Agreement: #2
U.S.-Panama Trade Agreement: #3


Question:

Why is Romney, allowed to close the gap and then move ahead of the President, in the recent Pew Research Group Poll (49% Romney -vs- 46% Obama), while stating what he knows to be lies on the campaign trail, some 28 days before the election?
 
Romney's Words: "The president has not signed one new free trade agreement in the past four years..."


President Obama's Words: "Along with our trade agreements with South Korea, Panama and Columbia..."



At what point do U.S. voters start to take reality as proof of the substance for what a candidate says, as opposed to their statements on the campaign trail? At what point does Romney, get held accountable by those taking part in the latest Pew Research Poll, for the claims and accusations that he makes against the Presidents record that are patently false?
 
Question:

Why is Romney, allowed to close the gap and then move ahead of the President, in the recent Pew Research Group Poll (49% Romney -vs- 46% Obama), while stating what he knows to be lies on the campaign trail, some 28 days before the election?
If I had to speculate, I'd say it's because the public is so sick of the lies Obama has been telling that they are really just eager to hear some new ones.
 
All three of those agreements were negotiated and finalized in 2006/2007. So I supposed it depends on your definition of "new trade agreements" is.
 
And/or Romney can say whatever he wants because Obama seems dedicated this campaign to running away from his own record at every turn.
 
Candidate Romney, just announced (again) in front of a small crowed that same refrain that he's altered several times on the campaign trail. Romney, said:

"The president has not signed one new free trade agreement in the past four years."
Fact:
The President actually signed three (3) trade deals.
US-Korea Trade Agreement: #1
U.S.-Colombia Trade Agreement: #2
U.S.-Panama Trade Agreement: #3
These three were all negotiated and signed by the Bush administration in 2007:
Republicans criticised Obama for taking several years to send the agreements, all signed during the Bush administration, to Congress for final approval. Many among Obama's core supporters, including organised labour and Democrats from areas hit hard by foreign competition, were unhappy that the White House was espousing the benefits of free trade.
US Congress backs free trade pacts with South Korea, Colombia and Panama | Business | guardian.co.uk

Bush negotiated 17 free trade agreements, 14 passed but 3 did not as the Democrats took Congress in 2008. To his credit, Obama worked with Republicans in finally signing the agreements into law - and has been continuing work on the Trans-Pacific Partnership - but he hasn't exactly been out there looking for and signing new trade agreements.
 
Has Romney indicated which country or countries he would target for free trade talks?

A: no, he has not. I guess, as with everything else, we're supposed to wait until after he's elected to find out what he intends to do.
 
More lack of truth from Romney, on Iran.

Romney's Words: "This President should have put in place crippling sanctions three and a half years ago. Now, he's just finally getting around to it."



Romney, never told that audience that the President, working with Congress, had already been engaged in used "crippling sanctions" on Iran, through the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), which was enacted in December 2011, targeting Iran's Central Bank, and the Comprehensive Iran Sanctions, Accountability and Divestment Act of 2010 (CISADA).

Romney, also failed to tell the truth about how the President built a multi-lateral coalition with Russia and China, which resulted in United Nations Security Council Resolution 1929 back in June 2010, which at that time was the most crippling set of sanctions in Iran's history.


Obama's Actions as President: Executive Orders: 13606, 13608, 13599 and 13590.
Source: The White House - Fact Sheet: Sanctions Related to Iran.

President Signs Iran Sanctions Act:



Questions:

At what point does Candidate Romney, have to start taking responsibility for his words? When will Romney, be held to the same level of responsibility for his words, that the President is held to, on matters affecting the United States both domestically and internationally? When does Candidate Romney, have to start telling the truth about his accusations - in light of the fact that the President's obvious actions contradict the statements of failure that Romney, continuously uses and falsifies in his campaign speeches?
 
If I had to speculate, I'd say it's because the public is so sick of the lies Obama has been telling that they are really just eager to hear some new ones.

Is it possible for you to use facts to back-up your claims, as I always do in my posts?
 
All three of those agreements were negotiated and finalized in 2006/2007. So I supposed it depends on your definition of "new trade agreements" is.


In 2006 and 2007, the name of the President was George W. Bush, not Barack Obama.

The trade agreements also did not contain provisions for protecting Workers Rights, either - until President Barack Obama, got those contingencies embedded after his election into office. He then signed the agreements with Workers Rights Protections built-in. Something President George W. Bush, failed to do. And, despite any of that - Romney, still did not tell the truth about what President Obama did in fact sign after he took office, nor did he tell his audience why.

So, the question still remains:

How does Romney, get any undecided voter to make-up their mind, when he fails to either tell the truth on the campaign trail, or outright lies about the truth on the campaign trail?
 
And/or Romney can say whatever he wants because Obama seems dedicated this campaign to running away from his own record at every turn.


One - can you be specific about precisely what President Obama, has run away from regarding his record as President? Two - are you willing to vote for Romney, when he engages in the chronic falsification of his own stated position at multiple reiterative points throughout his entire campaign - only a handful of which have been delineated here in this thread?
 
Has Romney indicated which country or countries he would target for free trade talks?

A: no, he has not. I guess, as with everything else, we're supposed to wait until after he's elected to find out what he intends to do.



This seems to be his campaign strategy:

- Declare what Republicans have been declaring since the day Obama took office - that his entire Presidency is a failure.

- Use the weak economic output that Republicans (for the most part) created by neglecting domestic issues between 2000-2008 against Obama.

- Cite as "proof" of Obama's failures, all of the negative economic data for which Republicans (in the aggregate) were responsible for creating between 2000-2008.

- Ignore all positive economic data subsequent to Obama's election for which Republicans (in the aggregate) were not responsible for creating between 2008-2010.

- Declare that more strength is needed in the White House and try to look tough while doing it.

- Promise to increase military spending on an inflation adjusted dollar basis more than any President in U.S. history.

- Declare that you have a solution for creating 12 million new jobs and paying for a $5 trillion tax plan by cutting Big Bird's subsidy to zero.

- Outline your five (5) bullet Powerpoint Presentation for fixing the entire economy, but give zero details on how you pay or build any of it.

- Change your position on 90% of any issue you have ever taken depending on which crowd you are speaking to, then have your campaign director change it back again at a later time.



And, by doing this - his poll numbers have actually improved. Who is responsible for moving those poll numbers? What kind of individual gets sold on lies, half truths, misrepresentation of the facts, misinformation and disinformation? What kind of voter watches Romney, tell these humongous falsehoods on the campaign trail - then reverse himself five (5) times in one (1) debate, only to conclude that he's demonstrating himself to be a better candidate for President?
 
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Once again, we find Candidate Romney, engaging in pathological behavior skewed towards not telling the truth:

Romney's Words on Abortion: 'I will preserve and protect a Woman's right to chose'. 'You will not see me wavering on that issue'.



Romney's Words on Abortion: 'I am Pro-Life.' 'I'm committed to not changing the laws of Massachusetts.' 'I took action to preserve the sanctity of life.'



What will Romney's Next Position be on Abortion?: "I'm Pro-Life." "I'm Pro-Choice."
 
Quite frankly, I'm a bit confused on what he said: "I stand by whatever I said."
 
Is it possible for you to use facts to back-up your claims, as I always do in my posts?
The facts you always use in your posts?

Like the "facts" that you used on your first post of this thread which were subsequently smashed into smithereens when it was revealed the the treaties that you had your panties in such a twist over were, in fact, negotiated and signed by Bush? It was only after that when Obama put his name on them. So to sit here and claim that Romney is lying when, in fact, there was nothing "new" about these treaties at all is not exactly a fact based position. In fact, I would call it nothing more than partisan rhetoric. Splitting hairs in an effort to manufacture outrage... something that I have noticed you have a penchant for as evidenced by your numerous posts in different threads.

So back to your question... "Is it possible for you to use facts to back-up your claims, as I always do in my posts?" The answer is your facts don't back up your claims at all. Upon further review, they actually debunk them.
 
The facts you always use in your posts?

Like the "facts" that you used on your first post of this thread which were subsequently smashed into smithereens when it was revealed the the treaties that you had your panties in such a twist over were, in fact, negotiated and signed by Bush? It was only after that when Obama put his name on them. So to sit here and claim that Romney is lying when, in fact, there was nothing "new" about these treaties at all is not exactly a fact based position. In fact, I would call it nothing more than partisan rhetoric. Splitting hairs in an effort to manufacture outrage... something that I have noticed you have a penchant for as evidenced by your numerous posts in different threads.

So back to your question... "Is it possible for you to use facts to back-up your claims, as I always do in my posts?" The answer is your facts don't back up your claims at all. Upon further review, they actually debunk them.

If you're going to claim that you "smashed" someone else's facts, you might want to get your facts straight. Three trade agreements were in fact negotiated and signed by Bush, but they were renegotiated by Obama, "to include more guarantees for labor and human rights and environmental protections." Obama gets win as Congress passes free-trade agreements - The Washington Post

So in fact they were new trade agreements, or at minimum, amended trade agreements. They were not the same agreements that Bush signed (obviously, as you wouldn't have two presidents signing the same agreements!).

Thus, in this case Romney was simply being deceptive and perhaps not telling an outright lie.

Romney Hits Obama on Trade Deals Relying on Narrow Distinction - Bloomberg
 
One - can you be specific about precisely what President Obama, has run away from regarding his record as President? Two - are you willing to vote for Romney, when he engages in the chronic falsification of his own stated position at multiple reiterative points throughout his entire campaign - only a handful of which have been delineated here in this thread?

Good grief, all that has been laid out for you time and again in this forum. You seem to have blinders that don't allow you to see it. The Romney stuff you keep harping on, no one but your fellow Obamabots are buying it. Independents aren't buying it either. Nor are some previous Obama voters like me.

The Obama campaign has at every turn avoided highlighting his record as POTUS, instead they attack Romney. Now some of this can be excused as normal negative campaign tactics, but as we see from the debate, Obama runs everywhere but to his record. He knows the voters are not happy with what he's done the last four years, and that's a poor place to be for an incumbant. The only way to go with that is to salt the earth beneath his opponent's feet.
 
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Good grief, all that has been laid out for you time and again in this forum. You seem to have blinders that don't allow you to see it. The Romney stuff you keep harping on, no one but your fellow Obamabots are buying it. Independents aren't buying it either. Nor are some previous Obama voters like me.

In that case it should be pretty easy for you to list the parts of Obama's record that he's running away from. :popcorn2:
 
In that case it should be pretty easy for you to list the parts of Obama's record that he's running away from. :popcorn2:

1) Obamacare mandatory provision and his secret meetings with insurance company execs.
2) High unemployment and chronic underemployment that have not gotten better.
3) Gitmo, still there.
4) Afghanistan - we're still there.
5) transparency in government is no better than the day he took office.
6) foreign policy blunder after blunder and the ME is still blowing up, and blaming us.
7) allowing the EPA to make end runs around the legislature.
8) the social engineering to make us accept AGW while pouring dollars we don't have down the rathole of "green" tech.
9) where are the vouchers he promised?
10) failed radicals posted to the government's top positions (and then failing) despite his campaign promises to fill those spots non-partisan.


The list goes on, and it's all been detailed on this forum before. I have doubts you'll even see this as all the previous mentions have obviously been invisible to you.
 
In that case it should be pretty easy for you to list the parts of Obama's record that he's running away from. :popcorn2:

unemeplyment percent after stimlus...LIE
Cutting the national debt in half....LIE
Ear Marks......LIE
Securing the Border.....LIE
Fast and Furious......LIE
Bengazi.....LIE
Obamacare saving us money, you cna keep your Dr.... deficit nuetral....LIE


You want me to go on?

its pretty much endless...

this is where you BS and say Obama is great and he is going to win and we all dont get it..
 
If you're going to claim that you "smashed" someone else's facts, you might want to get your facts straight. Three trade agreements were in fact negotiated and signed by Bush, but they were renegotiated by Obama, "to include more guarantees for labor and human rights and environmental protections." Obama gets win as Congress passes free-trade agreements - The Washington Post

So in fact they were new trade agreements, or at minimum, amended trade agreements. They were not the same agreements that Bush signed (obviously, as you wouldn't have two presidents signing the same agreements!).

Thus, in this case Romney was simply being deceptive and perhaps not telling an outright lie.

Romney Hits Obama on Trade Deals Relying on Narrow Distinction - Bloomberg
The one who needs to get his facts straight is you. I never claimed that "I" smashed his facts into smithereens. Someone else did the smashing. I merely pointed it out.

As far as the rest of this thread goes, I can sum it up in two words... ho hum.

Romney claims Obama hasn't scored any trade deals, Obama's name is on a few that were previously negotiated by Bush. Who cares? Romney's claim isn't 100% accurate but it isn't 100% false, either and it certainly doesn't rise to level of outrage it was made out to be by the OP. This thread crashed and burned on page one but if you feel you must continue, by all means...
 
So, the question still remains:

How does Romney, get any undecided voter to make-up their mind, when he fails to either tell the truth on the campaign trail, or outright lies about the truth on the campaign trail?

You assume that he has to tell the truth or that he is not telling the truth and that swing voters really care. People better off will vote Obama; people worse off will vote Romney and a little sliver right in the middle will just vote for the person they think will most likely win because they want to be on the winning side.
 
The one who needs to get his facts straight is you. I never claimed that "I" smashed his facts into smithereens. Someone else did the smashing. I merely pointed it out.

As far as the rest of this thread goes, I can sum it up in two words... ho hum.

Romney claims Obama hasn't scored any trade deals, Obama's name is on a few that were previously negotiated by Bush. Who cares? Romney's claim isn't 100% accurate but it isn't 100% false, either and it certainly doesn't rise to level of outrage it was made out to be by the OP. This thread crashed and burned on page one but if you feel you must continue, by all means...

Yes, you've pretty much summed it up. Romney lies ALL - THE - TIME and his supporters really just don't give a **** -- or at least they hate Obama so much that they claim not to give a ****. It's really disturbing.
 
The facts you always use in your posts?

As if you've actually read my posts.


Like the "facts" that you used on your first post of this thread which were subsequently smashed into smithereens when it was revealed the the treaties that you had your panties in such a twist over were, in fact, negotiated and signed by Bush?


False - Bush, did not sign them. Another Romney'ism for you. The trade deals were sitting UN-signed by the President. How on earth can President Obama, sign that which has already been signed? No wonder Bush 43, made it into the White House. He literally had people voting that can't even tie their own shoelaces.

It was Romney, who lied and said the President never signed a single trade deal - period. He made made no qualifications and he provided his audience with contextual substrate. President Obama, had to bring the trade deals before the Congress, to get the legislative process moving. Why would he need to do that, if President Bush, had already signed them?

You Romney, characters just can't level with the American People long enough to save your lives, can you?


It was only after that when Obama put his name on them.

Apparently, you don't even know what's going on here. How can President Obama, put his name on something that had already been Signed by Bush 43, and approved by Congress? Answer: He can't.

Obama gets win as Congress passes free-trade agreements - The Washington Post


So to sit here and claim that Romney is lying when, in fact, there was nothing "new" about these treaties at all is not exactly a fact based position. In fact, I would call it nothing more than partisan rhetoric. Splitting hairs in an effort to manufacture outrage... something that I have noticed you have a penchant for as evidenced by your numerous posts in different threads.

Pretending to be ignorant is one thing - but being ignorant is quite another thing altogether.

Romney, declared that the President never signed a single Trade Agreement. Period. You can flop around and act like he never said that with tons of Video and News Paper evidence all over the net showing that he did, all you want. It won't alter the facts, but it will continue to make you look rather bizarre in your conclusion that Romney, said something different than that.

Second, splitting hairs is precisely what Romney, did in this case - yet again. He knew that Obama, had signed three (3) Trade Agreements that had been hanging around and held-up by the Bush Administration. Yet, he did what Romney, always does. He made the conscious decision to LIE about the facts that he knew were already out in the public domain. This is his MO. This is how Romney, operates and he's done it on a wide range of issues and topics as this thread will attest and as many other sites on the net will attest.


So back to your question...

Which is a question that you have yet to address without flipping and flopping all over the place, pretending that President Obama, did not sign three (3) Trade Agreements. And, you have also ignored the reason why those trade agreements got modified by President Obama. They did not contain Workers Rights Protections, until President Obama, forced the issue and got those rights embedded into the agreements. He did not sign them until those agreements were amended. That's something that George W. Bush, did not do and could have cared less about, as he was off blowing $3 trillion on illegal wars and Profit Sharing Agreements for Foreign National Oil Barons that supported his war efforts in Iraq.

Get your facts straight.


The answer is your facts don't back up your claims at all. Upon further review, they actually debunk them.

You walk in here and proclaim that a Trade Deal was signed by President Bush, when NONE of the trade deals had even made it to Congress, and you insinuate that you've somehow proven something? You don't even understand the question, let alone have anything that you can debunk with.

You post a single FACT showing that Bush 43, had already signed what President Obama, signed and the congress approved, and THEN you will have debunked something inside this thread.

Until then, you are doing nothing more than what Romney, does all the time on the campaign trail, which is make stuff up out of whole cloth in broad daylight and hope that nobody catches him doing it. That's called outright LYING to the American People, and Romney, has been doing this since before he began running for the Presidency.

You've just been caught lying, just like Rommey. Now, how do you explain Bush 43 signing something that he NEVER signed?
 
Good grief, all that has been laid out for you time and again in this forum. You seem to have blinders that don't allow you to see it. The Romney stuff you keep harping on, no one but your fellow Obamabots are buying it. Independents aren't buying it either. Nor are some previous Obama voters like me.

The Obama campaign has at every turn avoided highlighting his record as POTUS, instead they attack Romney. Now some of this can be excused as normal negative campaign tactics, but as we see from the debate, Obama runs everywhere but to his record. He knows the voters are not happy with what he's done the last four years, and that's a poor place to be for an incumbant. The only way to go with that is to salt the earth beneath his opponent's feet.


Good grief, you keep making the same tired post, claiming that things happened without posting a single iota of truthful substance to back-up your claims - instead, telling falsehoods about how much "evidence" that exists on this forum to refute the lies that I keep in front of the debatpolitics.com viewers.

Go read my posts. I put links to hard FACTS in my posts. Those are Romney's OWN words. Not the words of somebody pretending to be Romney, on the campaign trail. I try hard to post words directly from the man's own mouth - so that his words cannot be refuted.

Now, you have these videos showing what the man said and when he said it. Yet, your only reply is to come back here and lay down some weak rhetorical editorial about what your opinion might be about the POTUS???

Is that how you debate here on debatepolitics.com? You get hit with a fact and your response is your opinion?

LOL - that's lovely. That's just lovely... :roll:
 
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