Ultimate lesson of the 2012 Presidential election

When the economy is the defining issue, GOP politicians can only win when they lie to their lower-middle-class base.

On the Ed show last night they made a very good point. A commentator thought that the GOP's big mistake was to have someone who is wealthy and alufe(sp) like Romney run. (47%). Anyway, although I understand that most of these guys on both sides are rich it seems to make sense. Romney has rampant foot in mouth disease because he has not had to deal with the type of exposure he has gotten in this Prez election. he is used to being obeyed not questioned as a CEO. his governor campaign was local and not as high profile. for all these factors he was not a good candidate to begin with no even bringing out all of the skeletons in his closet.

the dems have also had thier fair share of disasters - Dukoukis(sp), Humphrey, and the rest.

In Real Estate the montra is location location location. In politics its timing timing timing. Not Romney's time and may never be after 2012.

solletica said:

When the economy is the defining issue, GOP politicians can only win when they lie to their lower-middle-class base.

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Not a very helpful post, some elaboration is necessary.

solletica said:

When the economy is the defining issue, GOP politicians can only win when they lie to their lower-middle-class base.

Click to expand...

When the economy is the defining issue, the guy who's willing to give away the most wins.

wolfman24 said:

On the Ed show last night they made a very good point. A commentator thought that the GOP's big mistake was to have someone who is wealthy and alufe(sp) like Romney run. (47%). Anyway, although I understand that most of these guys on both sides are rich it seems to make sense. Romney has rampant foot in mouth disease because he has not had to deal with the type of exposure he has gotten in this Prez election. he is used to being obeyed not questioned as a CEO. his governor campaign was local and not as high profile. for all these factors he was not a good candidate to begin with no even bringing out all of the skeletons in his closet.

the dems have also had thier fair share of disasters - Dukoukis(sp), Humphrey, and the rest.

In Real Estate the montra is location location location. In politics its timing timing timing. Not Romney's time and may never be after 2012.

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I think you have hit close to the truth here. Not only is Romney an example of those born into wealth and all the advantages that entails, his inept campaigning and lack of any charisma or most other leadership qualities paint him as a rich man who isn't very talented. The right continues to underestimate the populist sentiment against the very affluent despite signs like clear majorities wanting increased(not decreased) taxes levied on them. I think part of the problem is that since the GOP sees making money as the highest form of human endeavor, they don't understand that such a philosophy isn't universal. In their book, wealth=ability so basically the richest person should always prevail. I will give them credit that they had an abysmal field to choose from this year. Romney was about the only candidate moderate enough to stand a chance in the general election but the consequence is he doesn't exactly motivate the base and is not a strong personality overall. Maybe if the Republicans realize the Tea Party and its kin have become an albatross around their necks we'll see something different in 2016. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to happen though.

MaggieD said:

When the economy is the defining issue, the guy who's willing to give away the most wins.

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There it is again. That arrogance. Yeah, Democrats only vote Democrat because they're lazy, greedy dependents. Only because they're bribed. :roll:

No, Maggie. You are the reason the Republicans are going to lose. You, and everyone who thinks like you. It's not because Obama is giving away money. It's because the Republicans have decided their campaign message is "half the country is a bunch of losers, even if they vote Republican."

And you bought it. So they'll keep saying it, digging themselves deeper and deeper. Democrats went with Hope and Change. We can do this. Republicans are going with "we're ****ed and its YOUR fault."

Deuce said:

There it is again. That arrogance. Yeah, Democrats only vote Democrat because they're lazy, greedy dependents. Only because they're bribed. :roll:

No, Maggie. You are the reason the Republicans are going to lose. You, and everyone who thinks like you. It's not because Obama is giving away money. It's because the Republicans have decided their campaign message is "half the country is a bunch of losers, even if they vote Republican."

And you bought it. So they'll keep saying it, digging themselves deeper and deeper. Democrats went with Hope and Change. We can do this. Republicans are going with "we're ****ed and its YOUR fault."

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Not surprisingly, I don't agree with you. The American people don't want the truth. They don't want to stop spending. We're no better than Greece, just not as far along. But we're well on our way. We have got to cut entitlements. There's no if's, and's or but's about it. Conservatives understand that. Social Security is a disaster. Medicare is a disaster. Medicaid is a disaster. Social Security Disability is a disaster. These programs cannot be sustained. Government is wasteful and inefficient. The only thing either side cares about is staying in office. They will do anything, say anything, promise ANYTHING to stay there. And we're so stupid, we believe them.

Democrats went with "hope and change," and I don't blame them. They didn't get either. Well, I guess they may still have hope, but change? Hardly. Just more of same-old-same-old. Throw money at it until it goes away, and the people stop squeaking. We're running out of money. The people are still squeaking.

MaggieD said:

Not surprisingly, I don't agree with you. The American people don't want the truth. They don't want to stop spending. We're no better than Greece, just not as far along. But we're well on our way. We have got to cut entitlements. There's no if's, and's or but's about it. Conservatives understand that. Social Security is a disaster. Medicare is a disaster. Medicaid is a disaster. Social Security Disability is a disaster. These programs cannot be sustained. Government is wasteful and inefficient. The only thing either side cares about is staying in office. They will do anything, say anything, promise ANYTHING to stay there. And we're so stupid, we believe them.

Democrats went with "hope and change," and I don't blame them. They didn't get either. Well, I guess they may still have hope, but change? Hardly. Just more of same-old-same-old. Throw money at it until it goes away, and the people stop squeaking. We're running out of money. The people are still squeaking.

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you cut those things and the business they create and you send us into a depression. They are not just handouts like your talking heads say. That money gets spent, and without it getting put into the hands of those people you cut off all that spending. That cuts demand and profit, and that in turn forces cutbacks in employment. The people collecting social security cannot just go out and get new jobs to cover what they are making. You cut medicare and you will kill off a ton of doctor jobs and hospital jobs.

if you cut these systems without something there to employ people and provide them with the means to consume and you don't just kill t5hose poor people like you want, you kill the whole economy. This is your problem. I know you would throw all those people under a bus and hope they die because you have the compassion and human dignity of a sociopath, but you should listen to that greed because when you kill consumption you will destroy the backbone of the US economy and you can kiss all that money you have goodby because when the US economy collapses it all becomes some really overpriced paper products.

Stop listening to only fox news. They don't tell the whole story and their job is to make you angry and afraid so you will vote for their guy. The reality is the only way Mittens is going to actually cut all that stuff is if he has his wealth secure in foreign currency and assets like gold. In that case he is covered and will make profit on the backend buying up the collapsed US, while you are sold as his cattle. Now what are the chances Mittens has put his money into different foreign investments to protect his wealth and you haven't?

Loki97 said:

I think you have hit close to the truth here. Not only is Romney an example of those born into wealth and all the advantages that entails, his inept campaigning and lack of any charisma or most other leadership qualities paint him as a rich man who isn't very talented. The right continues to underestimate the populist sentiment against the very affluent despite signs like clear majorities wanting increased(not decreased) taxes levied on them. I think part of the problem is that since the GOP sees making money as the highest form of human endeavor, they don't understand that such a philosophy isn't universal. In their book, wealth=ability so basically the richest person should always prevail. I will give them credit that they had an abysmal field to choose from this year. Romney was about the only candidate moderate enough to stand a chance in the general election but the consequence is he doesn't exactly motivate the base and is not a strong personality overall. Maybe if the Republicans realize the Tea Party and its kin have become an albatross around their necks we'll see something different in 2016. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to happen though.

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they also made the point that it is not necessarily that we don't like him but that he does not like us (the little people). Just look at the guys face when Mike Rowe was talking. Total lack of concern or interest. As a behavioralist I see this expression in him time and time again. But to be fair I see it some in Obama too.

tererun said:

you cut those things and the business they create and you send us into a depression. They are not just handouts like your talking heads say. That money gets spent, and without it getting put into the hands of those people you cut off all that spending. That cuts demand and profit, and that in turn forces cutbacks in employment. The people collecting social security cannot just go out and get new jobs to cover what they are making. You cut medicare and you will kill off a ton of doctor jobs and hospital jobs.

Click to expand...

No. When you cut taxes, you automatically leave more money in the hands of people to spend. Why must we waste it on programs that are sadly lacking in accountability and effective management? Why should Medicare be such a mess? People will have to pay more for it. But the left doesn't want to hear that. They want-want-want and want the other guy to pay. Medicare premiums need to go up!!! Why aren't they going up?? Because politicians don't have the courage to do anything that's unpopular for fear it will cost them their office.[/QUOTE]

if you cut these systems without something there to employ people and provide them with the means to consume and you don't just kill t5hose poor people like you want, you kill the whole economy. This is your problem. I know you would throw all those people under a bus and hope they die because you have the compassion and human dignity of a sociopath, but you should listen to that greed because when you kill consumption you will destroy the backbone of the US economy and you can kiss all that money you have goodby because when the US economy collapses it all becomes some really overpriced paper products.

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Hope they die. Yes, that's it, why didn't I think of that? There's something wrong with you, Terun. There really is. You think that because the right wants to hold people accountable they're sociopaths. I'm sure it plays well at the rallies, but it's a bunch of bull****. The US economy isn't going to collapse if we stop spending like drunken sailors.

Stop listening to only fox news. They don't tell the whole story and their job is to make you angry and afraid so you will vote for their guy. The reality is the only way Mittens is going to actually cut all that stuff is if he has his wealth secure in foreign currency and assets like gold. In that case he is covered and will make profit on the backend buying up the collapsed US, while you are sold as his cattle. Now what are the chances Mittens has put his money into different foreign investments to protect his wealth and you haven't?

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Surprise. I don't watch Fox News. I barely watch any news. I get my news from the newspapers and the radio. Much less sensationalizing that way. You tell everything about how much you know and who you are when you call Romney Mittens. Just like a 5th grader. Nice,

MaggieD said:

Hope they die. Yes, that's it, why didn't I think of that? There's something wrong with you, Terun. There really is. You think that because the right wants to hold people accountable they're sociopaths. I'm sure it plays well at the rallies, but it's a bunch of bull****. The US economy isn't going to collapse if we stop spending like drunken sailors.

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Hold the **** on. You're saying someone is characterizing your motivations!?

Kinda like you just did to Democrat voters a few posts up?

Frank650 said:

Not a very helpful post, some elaboration is necessary.

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romney was leading up until the point his true intentions were revealed.

wolfman24 said:

On the Ed show last night they made a very good point. A commentator thought that the GOP's big mistake was to have someone who is wealthy and alufe(sp) like Romney run. (47%). Anyway, although I understand that most of these guys on both sides are rich it seems to make sense. Romney has rampant foot in mouth disease because he has not had to deal with the type of exposure he has gotten in this Prez election.

Click to expand...

Yes, how unfortunate he hasn't learned how to conceal his true motives from the public

wolfman24 said:

On the Ed show last night they made a very good point. A commentator thought that the GOP's big mistake was to have someone who is wealthy and alufe(sp) like Romney run.

Click to expand...

He was behind in the national polls from the very start because true conservatives don't see him as one of them.

solletica said:

When the economy is the defining issue, GOP politicians can only win when they lie to their lower-middle-class base.

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I am curious what part of the libertarian message does Obama cater to. Dems win by telling losers that they should remain losers

I guess if you call wanting a nice middle class lifestyle- 'loser' then I guess so.

Not all 'winners' can be born into wealthy families... eace

The ultimate lesson of the 2012 election is that a dishonest press can make the worst candidate look good to a significant amount of the population.

notquiteright said:

I guess if you call wanting a nice middle class lifestyle- 'loser' then I guess so.

Not all 'winners' can be born into wealthy families... eace

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if they think that should come from the taxes levied on others yeah it makes them both parasites and deluded.

It's diffficult in the exterme to talk about any lessons learned from an election season that hasn't ended yet. Might I remind you, the last election Obama wasn't the frontrunner in the dem party for quite some time. And even when he took the primary nod, a whole lot of dems were trying to get rid of him and put Hillary in there. There was even daily talk on the dem sites of voting McCain in protest.

Of course come pedal to the metal time, they voted for Obama. Who is to say the same won't be true of Romney?

No, they are NOT deluded into thinking giving the upper 1% tax breaks after a huge retraction of our economy will right the ship of state.

Unless there is massive democratic turnout, Obama loses. It is that simple. The GOP did not pick Romney in some back room. He bought the nomination state by state outspending his opponents a gazillion to one with negative ads. Regardless of who wins, the economy is still going to suck. Doesn't matter whose fault it is. Who is going to try to make it the least sucky? I have yet to hear anything from either side that makes me believe that rearranging the pain isn't the best idea that either party can come up with as a "cure" at this point in time.

johnny_rebson said:

He was behind in the national polls from the very start because true conservatives don't see him as one of them.

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True, he didn't talk about O's birth certificate, didn't bash gays enough, and significantly toned down the anti-Mexican rhetoric.

MaggieD said:

When the economy is the defining issue, the guy who's willing to give away the most wins.

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...actually, the polls show Romney in serious trouble in 2012. His wanted to take $5T (over 10 years) from the treasury and give it to the wealthy by far qualifies him as the giveaway king of 2012 and I don't think he is going to win.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/opinion/sunday/romneys-tax-plan-defies-the-rules-of-math.html

Fisher said:

Unless there is massive democratic turnout, Obama loses.

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CORRECTION: unless romney eats at Chick-Fil-A to negate his image as someone totally out-of-touch w/his rural lower-middle class blue-collar base, he loses.

solletica said:

CORRECTION: unless romney eats at Chick-Fil-A to negate his image as someone totally out-of-touch w/his rural lower-middle class blue-collar base, he loses.

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I see we've entered what they call the Silly Season. Shame that.