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Rape is just a method of conception.

I feel bad for the man.


While technically correct, his wording is only going to come back and bite him in the ass.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
I feel bad for the man.


While technically correct, his wording is only going to come back and bite him in the ass.
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I agree.

He's consistent on the issue, but his words aren't going to win him or Romney any points.

It's really too bad, as his view on abortion is really not important. There isn't anything he will be able to do about it anyway.
 
Viktyr Korimir said:
Are you even reading the rest of the thread?
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Um, that was MY point to you, you apparently have missed BOTH of those same argument threads from me, while castigating me for "ignoring" the moral arguments Ryan has made. Note: He has no superior moral point (nor do you).

The mistake is equating a zygote with a human being. It becomes compounded by saying that "The fetus isn't any less of a human being...". This is a false premise.
 
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Gimmesometruth said:
Um, that was MY point to you, you apparently have missed BOTH of those same argument threads from me, while castigating me for "ignoring" the moral arguments Ryan has made. Note: He has no superior moral point (nor do you).

The mistake is equating a zygote with a human being. It becomes compounded by saying that "The fetus isn't any less of a human being...". This is a false premise.
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It is a false premise in your opinion. Do you understand how opinions work, and how they differ from facts?
 
Gimmesometruth said:
I not twisting Ryan's words or meaning, by his ignoring the "method of conception", he once again blinds himself to the position of the victim and subordinates this legal person below that of the zygote. It is a two-fer.
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Gimmesometruth said:
I not twisting Ryan's words or meaning, by his ignoring the "method of conception", he once again blinds himself to the position of the victim and subordinates this legal person below that of the zygote. It is a two-fer.
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Still trying to feign moral outrage, are you? Let's see if you have one intellectually honest bone in your body. I doubt it, but I'm willing to club you over the head with it one more time because I believe everyone deserves a shot at redemption. Here we go...

I agree with you. You are not twisting Ryan's words or meaning. You are actually making the words up and applying your own meaning to them. Here's the entire clip from the OP:
Vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan says that he personally believes that rape is just another “method of conception” and not an excuse to allow abortions.

During an interview with WJHL this week, Ryan was asked his view about Rep. Todd Akin, who recently asserted that women could not get pregnant from “legitimate rape.”
“Specifically where you stand when it comes to rape, and when it comes to the issue of should it be legal for a woman to be able to get an abortion if she’s raped?” WJHL reporter Josh Smith wondered
I’m very proud of my pro-life record, and I’ve always adopted the idea that, the position that the method of conception doesn’t change the definition of life,” Ryan explained. “But let’s remember, I’m joining the Romney-Ryan ticket. And the president makes policy.”
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He didn't ignore anything. You are assigning ignoring to him. Which is transparent and, quite frankly, puts you on the same level as guys like Sean Hannity, Ed Schultz, and Rachel Maddow.
 
Dittohead not! said:
at least according to our VP hopeful:



I don't think Ryans' boss holds the same opinion.

At least now when speaking to a general audience. If he's speaking to adamant pro lifers, who knows?
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I think I vomited a little bit when I listened to Ryan say rape is just another method of conception. No wait, according to the puddle on the floor it was a lot.

So remember people if you chose to take birth control to plan your pregnancy with the partner you chose you are a whore, but if you never had a choice to take BC, consent to sex, or have an abortion you will be a happy mom in Republicanland.

Do you republicans understand? People are not flocking to Obama because he is a great leader, they are running to him because your sick representatives scare the hell out of them.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
He didn't say "just" a method conception. That single words adds a connotation to his words that was not originally there.
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The forceful penetration of a woman for sexual purposes without her consent is not a method of conception in any way in any civil society or one that respects the sanctity of a woman's right to her own body. Just the idea that you could count rape as a legitimate method of conception in any way and rationalize it's happening as just another way women get pregnant is not only sexist, but it is also shows ryan is some sort of sociopath. The absolute and disgusting lack of any respect for the half of our society that produces and nurtures our young is just sick. This is not a matter of playing politics or the crap that exists in that world. This is taking a depraved act of violence and abuse and pretending like it doesn't mean a damned thing to the victim.

Seriously, how does this sound to you? Child molestation is just a way kids find out how to have sex. Armed robbery is just a way criminals get their money. Bludgeoning Ryan to death with a rusty hammer is just another way to get him closer to god. Now just remove the just from those sentences and tell me how much it changes their meaning.
 
tessaesque said:
It is a false premise in your opinion.
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What is MY false premise? You cannot point it out. I will ASSUME you mean that "a fetus is not equal to a human being". You cannot defend this, legally. The courts do NOT recognize them as equal. A fetus has the POSSIBILITY to become a human being, but it is not.

Do you understand how opinions work, and how they differ from facts?
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Sure I do.....do you? You did not present any.
 
tererun said:
The forceful penetration of a woman for sexual purposes without her consent is not a method of conception in any way in any civil society or one that respects the sanctity of a woman's right to her own body.
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It is a method of conception though. Being raped is a process which can cause pregnancy. It is not a desirable method of conception by any means, but it is one.

Just the idea that you could count rape as a legitimate method of conception in any way and rationalize it's happening as just another way women get pregnant is not only sexist, but it is also shows ryan is some sort of sociopath. The absolute and disgusting lack of any respect for the half of our society that produces and nurtures our young is just sick. This is not a matter of playing politics or the crap that exists in that world. This is taking a depraved act of violence and abuse and pretending like it doesn't mean a damned thing to the victim.
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I find this full of hyperbole and inaccuracy.

Seriously, how does this sound to you? Child molestation is just a way kids find out how to have sex.Armed robbery is just a way criminals get their money. Bludgeoning Ryan to death with a rusty hammer is just another way to get him closer to god. Now just remove the just from those sentences and tell me how much it changes their meaning.
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The word "just" changes the meaning quite a bit. Without the word "just" all of those things you said are true, with the exception of the last one, depending on your religious views. Adding the word "just", which Ryan never used, attempts to trivialize each of those things, which is not true with the words removal, where they are just factual statements.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
He didn't ignore anything. You are assigning ignoring to him.
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I'm sorry that you cannot take his "point" to it's conclusion, to analyze what he said. He said it does not matter how the conception occurs......but then he says there can be exception......after he said and sponsored a bill saying something else again.

Those are his words, his actions and contradictions........beyond the fact that it still positions the non-existent rights of a zygote above a woman's.
 
I think the title of this thread is very misleading. Ryan did not say rape is "just a method of conception." What he said was this:

I’m very proud of my pro-life record, and I’ve always adopted the idea that, the position that the method of conception doesn’t change the definition of life,”
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It may seem like a trivial distinction to some, but it actually is pretty significant. Adding the word "just" importantly alters and dishonestly colors his actual statement, as if he dismissed the seriousness of rape and the difference between rape and other methods of conception. What Ryan actually did was stress the importance of protecting life. Read fairly, his point is that, regardless of the way in which pregnancy arose, there is no excuse for ending an innocent life. That is not a new or unusual point at all for a pro-lifer. He did not, as some are trying to spin it, argue that rape is no different or not significantly different from other "methods of conception."

I don't agree with him, but I'll give him that much.
 
Anagram said:
It is a method of conception though. Being raped is a process which can cause pregnancy. It is not a desirable method of conception by any means, but it is one.



I find this full of hyperbole and inaccuracy.



The word "just" changes the meaning quite a bit. Without the word "just" all of those things you said are true, with the exception of the last one, depending on your religious views. Adding the word "just", which Ryan never used, attempts to trivialize each of those things, which is not true with the words removal, where they are just factual statements.
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I am not really sure which disturbs me more. That people like Ryan are in politics, or that they get somewhere because of people like you.
 
tererun said:
I am not really sure which disturbs me more. That people like Ryan are in politics, or that they get somewhere because of people like you.
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Ok, so what was wrong with what I said?
 
Krhazy said:
I think the title of this thread is very misleading. Ryan did not say rape is "just a method of conception." What he said was this:



It may seem like a trivial distinction to some, but it actually is pretty significant. Adding the word "just" importantly alters and dishonestly colors his actual statement, as if he dismissed the seriousness of rape and the difference between rape and other methods of conception. What Ryan actually did was stress the importance of protecting life. Read fairly, his point is that, regardless of the way in which pregnancy arose, there is no excuse for ending an innocent life. That is not a new or unusual point at all for a pro-lifer. He did not, as some are trying to spin it, argue that rape is no different or not significantly different from other "methods of conception."

I don't agree with him, but I'll give him that much.
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Remember people, it doesn't change the definition of your life when your existence reminds your mother of what was hopefully the worst moment of hers. There is where the problem lies. Ryan will never have to be pregnant with and raise a child conceived out of a violent depraved act he was a victim of. he also lacks any shred of empathy or human compassion that might help him have even the slightest of understanding that this method of conception is not like the rest. Thanks for following in his goosesteps.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
I'm sorry that you cannot take his "point" to it's conclusion, to analyze what he said.
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Well, therein lies the problem. You can't do it either. All you can do is assign YOUR words and meanings to his position in a pathetic attempt to perpetuate the party line narrative.(war on women)

You are both transparent and dismissed.
 
tererun said:
The forceful penetration of a woman for sexual purposes without her consent is not a method of conception in any way in any civil society or one that respects the sanctity of a woman's right to her own body. Just the idea that you could count rape as a legitimate method of conception in any way and rationalize it's happening as just another way women get pregnant is not only sexist, but it is also shows ryan is some sort of sociopath. The absolute and disgusting lack of any respect for the half of our society that produces and nurtures our young is just sick. This is not a matter of playing politics or the crap that exists in that world. This is taking a depraved act of violence and abuse and pretending like it doesn't mean a damned thing to the victim.

Seriously, how does this sound to you? Child molestation is just a way kids find out how to have sex. Armed robbery is just a way criminals get their money. Bludgeoning Ryan to death with a rusty hammer is just another way to get him closer to god. Now just remove the just from those sentences and tell me how much it changes their meaning.
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He didn't say that rape is "just" a method of conception. He didn't say that rape is a "legitimate" method of conception. Those are YOUR words, NOT his. Since you've based your entire argument on something he didn't say, your argument doesn't hold water.

Now, I agree that the use of the word "method" is problematic because, at least in terms of connotation, it implies that rape is a way that people choose to get pregnant. What he should have said was, "How a child is conceived doesn't change the definition of life."
 
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tererun said:
if you cannot understand the world of difference between consentual sex leading to a pregnancy and rape that leads to a pregnancy there is no chance i can help you.
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There's a huge difference between them, but they are both methods of conception.
 
Rape is a method of conception the same way a lobotomy is neurosurgery. Neither are factually wrong statements, however using them as arguments for supporting anything makes it look like you've had a lobotomy yourself.
 
tererun said:
Remember people, it doesn't change the definition of your life when your existence reminds your mother of what was hopefully the worst moment of hers.
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Your sarcasm is misplaced. It doesn't change that you're a human being and that your life is worth as much as anyone else's. It is either morally acceptable to exterminate otherwise healthy human lives in the womb, or it is not morally acceptable; adding an exception for human lives conceived via violation does not make logical sense. The argument you are making-- that the children of rape are less worthy of protection than other children-- is morally abhorrent. Even speaking as a pro-choicer, it is as morally abhorrent as the argument that women should have no right to decide for themselves whether or not to bear children.
 
Dittohead not! said:
The "that" in "you didn't build that" clearly referred to infrastructure. :
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Only if you don't understand subject and verb agreement.

Business-singular-that
Roads and bridges-plural-those.

And to those calling a child a "zygote", we're well past the stage of zygote before a woman even knows she's pregnant and you're only showing your ignorance of the term.
 
Wait, what's the argument here? We all know that pregnancies can occur from rape. There's no physical difference between a child conceived in love and one conceived in violence. But none of that matters in the slightest, because it is grossly immoral to force a woman to carry a child that she doesn't want to.
 
the title of the thread misleads to a point, but Ryan is of the opinion that Rape is a method of conception and that he and his pro-life buddies want to force that woman to carry a rapists child is just really wrong.
 
tererun said:
if you cannot understand the world of difference between consentual sex leading to a pregnancy and rape that leads to a pregnancy there is no chance i can help you.
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There's a difference in how the child was conceived, but that doesn't change the fact that it was indeed conceived.
 
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