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Fla. voter registration fraud charge has ties to Romney

AdamT said:
No, there were no cases of voter fraud with respect to ACORN. What there were were falsified registrations, which were reported BY ACCORN.
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I used the wrong term. Either way, ACORN admittedly broke the law (or its employees/volunteers did), and that comes straight from their own sources. So again, you have confirmed violations of law with ACORN, and accusations of violations of law with Sproul. Surely you understand the difference between a confirmed crime and and an accusation of criminal activity.
 
Somerville said:
Romney campaign is paying its employees nearly twice as much[/URL] as the Obama campaign pays its workers, it is looking more and more that the "big spending Dems" have a better grasp of economics than the supposed "job creators" and "deficit hawks"
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That's a good point I didn't really think about. These guys are supposed to be bringing the "business experience" which is supposed to make the government more efficient, but they can't even make their campaign more efficient.
 
JRog said:
That's a good point I didn't really think about. These guys are supposed to be bringing the "business experience" which is supposed to make the government more efficient, but they can't even make their campaign more efficient.
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More employees with significantly less pay is automatically more efficient because....??
 
rocket88 said:
Politics is all about perception. Considering the GOP's sudden "concern" about voter fraud, hiring this guy seems questionable. You'd think they'd want to avoid all appearances of having their own version of ACORN. You know as well as I do that if you changed it to "Democrats" and "ACORN" the usual suspects around here would be jumping all over it, and you wouldn't get Rush to shut up about it.
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The most well-known case of voter fraud is that of Mitt Romney voting from his son's basement. Why isn't that case being pursued?
 
tessaesque said:
More employees with significantly less pay is automatically more efficient because....??
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Both campaigns are producing the same result, but Romney's is paying more for the same (arguably a lesser) effect....and giving bonuses.
 
tessaesque said:
....so last year some time Romney hired Sproul to do.....something.

And now a company that "appears to be shell company" for Sproul hired people who submitted fraudulent voter forms.

I like how instead of actually focusing on the potential fraud, all Salon seems interested in doing is trying to connect this to Romney as best as he can. What saddens me is people will immediately jump in with "OMG, Romney's instructing his team to register fictitious voters!".
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Yes, because as God Knows, the Republicans have never tried to tie ACORN to the Democrats. :lamo

Good to see you jump to Mitt's defense again. Quelle Surprise!
 
tessaesque said:
I used the wrong term. Either way, ACORN admittedly broke the law (or its employees/volunteers did), and that comes straight from their own sources. So again, you have confirmed violations of law with ACORN, and accusations of violations of law with Sproul. Surely you understand the difference between a confirmed crime and and an accusation of criminal activity.
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Yes, that's right, as far as it goes. Some ACORN employees did turn in fake ballots. But that's where the similarity ends. First, as I noted, ACORN reported the the problem of its own accord. The GOP guy just got caught. Second, the ACORN employees were just making up voters from whole cloth. They did it to make more money, because they were paid on the basis of how many registration forms they turned in. In contrast, the GOP guy's firm was actually changing the party affiliation of real voters. The motive there is obviously partisan voter fraud. Third, ACORN's mission was simply to register as many people as possible. They didn't actively seek to register only Democrats, in contrast to the GOP guy's firm which sought to screen out Democrats, and if they couldn't, they just changed the voters' registration.
 
AdamT said:
Yes, that's right, as far as it goes. Some ACORN employees did turn in fake ballots. But that's where the similarity ends. First, as I noted, ACORN reported the the problem of its own accord. The GOP guy just got caught. Second, the ACORN employees were just making up voters from whole cloth. They did it to make more money, because they were paid on the basis of how many registration forms they turned in. In contrast, the GOP guy's firm was actually changing the party affiliation of real voters. The motive there is obviously partisan voter fraud. Third, ACORN's mission was simply to register as many people as possible. They didn't actively seek to register only Democrats, in contrast to the GOP guy's firm.
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They weren't fake ballots as far as I can remember. They were fake registrations, which were self reported by ACORN. But the Republicans are still running with it and trying to tie it to a Democratic plot. With absolutely no proof and no success.
 
Wiggen said:
They weren't fake ballots as far as I can remember. They were fake registrations, which were self reported by ACORN. But the Republicans are still running with it and trying to tie it to a Democratic plot. With absolutely no proof and no success.
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Yes, that's right. And those fake registrations couldn't actually affect anything, of course, because there were no real people attached to them. It was just some low-level workers trying to rip off ACORN by turning in more ballots than they actually collected. It's qualitatively different from changing actual voter registration forms. Alteration of a voter registration form is a third degree felony.
 
JRog said:
Both campaigns are producing the same result, but Romney's is paying more for the same (arguably a lesser) effect....and giving bonuses.
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Actually, in the long run Romney will pay about $2.1 million less, based on median salaries. Obama's total is $33.2, and Romney's is $31.1.
 
Wiggen said:
Yes, because as God Knows, the Republicans have never tried to tie ACORN to the Democrats. :lamo

Good to see you jump to Mitt's defense again. Quelle Surprise!
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Never said that.

Dishonesty! Quelle Surprise!!
 
AdamT said:
Yes, that's right, as far as it goes. Some ACORN employees did turn in fake ballots. But that's where the similarity ends. First, as I noted, ACORN reported the the problem of its own accord. The GOP guy just got caught. Second, the ACORN employees were just making up voters from whole cloth. They did it to make more money, because they were paid on the basis of how many registration forms they turned in. In contrast, the GOP guy's firm was actually changing the party affiliation of real voters. The motive there is obviously partisan voter fraud. Third, ACORN's mission was simply to register as many people as possible. They didn't actively seek to register only Democrats, in contrast to the GOP guy's firm which sought to screen out Democrats, and if they couldn't, they just changed the voters' registration.
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The Florida case likely has proof that the company hired had employees that tampered with registrations.

However, the link to Scoul is "alleged", per the article. As in, "the company is an alleged shell company for Scoul. Also, as to the first bolded sentence, I refer to my original response to Rocket: If the evidence exists, where are the charges? You say he "got caught", but I'm unaware of any convictions, are you? Post 'em, if so.
 
You're right. I said it, after reading this forum for the past few years. I do like your spirited defense of Mitt, however, regardless of the circumstances.
 
Wiggen said:
You're right. I said it, after reading this forum for the past few years. I do like your spirited defense of Mitt, however, regardless of the circumstances.
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You know, Wiggen...when you want to have a serious discussion why don't you let me know? Your repeated attacks and accusations are just pathetic and weak. You contribute nothing to the debate when you post ragingly assholish claims that are not only factually bankrupt, but wholly counterproductive. If you're proud of that level of discourse then by all means, keep it up. If I were you, I'd be downright ashamed of my posts.
 
tessaesque said:
Actually, in the long run Romney will pay about $2.1 million less, based on median salaries. Obama's total is $33.2, and Romney's is $31.1.
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Where are you getting those numbers? How are you determining median salaries in the Romney campaign, and why is that more relevant than mean salaries?
 
JRog said:
Where are you getting those numbers? How are you determining median salaries in the Romney campaign, and why is that more relevant than mean salaries?
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Those numbers come from the numbers provided in the other thread created by the OP in which the median salaries were listed. Had the mean salaries been listed, I would have used those.
 
tessaesque said:
Those numbers come from the numbers provided in the other thread created by the OP in which the median salaries were listed. Had the mean salaries been listed, I would have used those.
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Median and Mean are very different indicators. If we're talking about total cost, the mean salary is likely the better indicator.
 
JRog said:
Median and Mean are very different indicators. If we're talking about total cost, the mean salary is likely the better indicator.
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As I said, if the mean had been provided, I'd have used it. It wasn't. I used what was available. If you'd like to do the research and find the mean salary and re-check the numbers you're more than welcome to.
 
tessaesque said:
As I said, if the mean had been provided, I'd have used it. It wasn't. I used what was available. If you'd like to do the research and find the mean salary and re-check the numbers you're more than welcome to.
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I'm not trying to be offensive, just trying to understand how you determined what the end cost of each campaign would be based on the median salary.
 
tessaesque said:
I don't listen to Rush, so I'll take your word for it on that one.

As for the other...it's possible, but Acorn has confirmed cases of voter fraud, and this guy just has allegations. It's a slight difference, but it is a difference.
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I don't listen to Rush either, but it would be hard to picture him giving up an opportunity to Lib-bash.

It's different, but still, politics being about perception...why invite the bad press?
 
tessaesque said:
Please don't take offense to this, but it is really, really hard to read your posts for comprehension with all of the underscores.
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Thank_you, I will monitor that in future posts.
 
Oooopsies . . . looks like it wasn't just Palm Beach County

Voter registration problems widening in Florida

What first appeared to be an isolated problem in one Florida county has now spread statewide, with election officials in at least seven counties informing prosecutors or state election officials about questionable voter registration forms filled out on behalf of the Republican Party of Florida.
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I 'like' this next bit
The Florida state party has paid Strategic Allied Consulting more than $1.3 million, and the Republican National Committee used the group for nearly $3 million of work in Nevada, North Carolina, Colorado and Virginia.

The company said earlier this week that it was cooperating with elections officials in Florida. It said the suspect forms were turned in by one person, who has been fired.
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So they are trying to claim that "one person" provided almost half of the registrations in Palm Beach County plus being responsible for the problems in seven other counties? Nice . . . if they get away with it
 
Somerville said:
I'm sure we all remember ACORN. Looks like the Republicans in Florida were trying to emulate their image of ACORN




ACORN was falsely accused of fraudulent voter registration despite the fact that every instance was actually the result of individuals acting illegally and in almost every case it was ACORN that notified authorities of the problems. This case looks like this was a top-down deliberate attempt to mess with the voter rolls where I live.


and . . . $1.3 million for voter registration in just one county! Talk about poor leadership and business practices. Just another case of the GOP showing that it really doesn't practice what it preaches. As with the disclosure that the Romney campaign is paying its employees nearly twice as much as the Obama campaign pays its workers, it is looking more and more that the "big spending Dems" have a better grasp of economics than the supposed "job creators" and "deficit hawks"
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I don't see how this is tied to Romney. Did Romney authorize voter registration fraud? I don't see it. Do you have proof of that. Also noteworthy is the fact that the Republican party fired this outfit immediately upon learning of the fraud. The GOP could have picked a better vendor, since this one has a checkered past, but the Republican party is not complicit in the fraud, and of course, did fire the outfit.
 
Somerville said:
I'm sure we all remember ACORN. Looks like the Republicans in Florida were trying to emulate their image of ACORN





ACORN was falsely accused of fraudulent voter registration despite the fact that every instance was actually the result of individuals acting illegally and in almost every case it was ACORN that notified authorities of the problems. This case looks like this was a top-down deliberate attempt to mess with the voter rolls where I live.


and . . . $1.3 million for voter registration in just one county! Talk about poor leadership and business practices. Just another case of the GOP showing that it really doesn't practice what it preaches. As with the disclosure that the Romney campaign is paying its employees nearly twice as much as the Obama campaign pays its workers, it is looking more and more that the "big spending Dems" have a better grasp of economics than the supposed "job creators" and "deficit hawks"
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You do know the difference between campaign money and federal or state money ..correct?
 
danarhea said:
I don't see how this is tied to Romney. Did Romney authorize voter registration fraud? I don't see it. Do you have proof of that. Also noteworthy is the fact that the Republican party fired this outfit immediately upon learning of the fraud. The GOP could have picked a better vendor, since this one has a checkered past, but the Republican party is not complicit in the fraud, and of course, did fire the outfit.
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All of those are valid points BUT more is coming out

Suspicious voter registration forms found in 10 Florida counties

Florida elections officials said Friday that at least 10 counties have identified suspicious and possibly fraudulent voter registration forms turned in by a firm working for the Republican Party of Florida, which has filed an election fraud complaint with the state Division of Elections against its one-time consultant.
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not seven like the earlier AP report stated, but ten counties

Then there is this little bit
The controversy in Florida -- which began with possibly fraudulent forms that first cropped up in Palm Beach County -- has engulfed the Republican National Committee, which admitted Thursday that it urged state parties in seven swing states to hire the firm, Strategic Allied Consulting.
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and this, which is quite interesting
Strategic Allied is run by an Arizona-based man named Nathan Sproul, who has been dogged by charges in the past that his employees destroyed Democratic registrations. No charges were ever filed.

But his reputation is such that when Sproul was tapped by the RNC to do field work this year, officials requested that he set up a new firm to avoid being publicly linked to the past allegations
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Then there was this bit of nonsense this past week: Colo. girl registering ‘only Romney’ voters tied to firm dumped by RNC over fraud

and the 'tie to Romney' --
Sproul’s Lincoln Strategy Group has received about $71,391 in payments for “field consulting” and “rent & utilities” by the Romney for President Inc. committee from November 30th through March 2nd of this year.
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