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Change: Health Insurance Premiums Up 3K Under Obama

You have already been paying for the "free riders"

This is the primary area for reform. A study came out not too long ago, I think about 2 years ago, that said that 70% of these "free riders" you are talking about, are primarily illegal immigrants utilizing county hospitals and emergency rooms, where it is illegal to refuse care, regardless if they are legal immigrants, or citizens or not.

So, an illegal immigrant gets a tooth ache, what do they do? They go to the emergency room, receive treatment, and pay nothing! They take their sick kids the next week. Then their sick wife the week after.

You tell me, is this not an area where reform is required? Why are illegal aliens able to access our healthcare system for free? Brings up another primary reason, illegals coming to this country 9 months pregnant. They cross the border illegally, head up to the local county hospital, and a doctor comes and delivers the baby. Who do they bill? It's an undocumented illegal alien! Not only that, but the child receives automatic citizenship, Medicaid assistance, and the mother is taken care of. Who pays? You think this is right? You don't think this has a huge impact? I live in Texas, and I can tell you, I have many doctor friends, and do business with several hospitals just in my area. They tell me that over half of their business is Medicaid patients, and the majority of those patients are children of illegal immigrant parents.
 
Please ... you do NOT pay $2,400 a year for health insurance, or if you do it must have an insane deductible and cover almost nothing. In any case, I wasn't referring to your specific premium, but rather the average family premium which is around $15k a year. Most people only pay a portion of that directly, with their employer picking up the balance, but that employer contribution is in lieu of compensation, so the employee is in fact paying for it.

I actually pay $2232 per year for health insurance. I have a $5000 deductible, and it covers everything. That's also an individual plan, it's not even in a group plan.

I don't have "family" coverage, I have individual coverage. I'm in my mid 30s, and I'm healthy as a bull. Don't argue with me over what I pay! I know exactly what I pay son!

Yeah, you weren't referring to me specifically....lol....who else matters to me???? I care about what I pay! Your stupid idea would triple my expense! Think of what it might do to my small company if instead of my employees paying NOTHING for their health insurance, if all of a sudden they had to start paying higher taxes to pay for their own insurance!

Noooooo, you liberals aren't good at thinking things out. I'm not going to give my employees raises if I'm no longer responsible for their health insurance. I pay people for the value of their work and contribution to my business, not simply because I can afford to pay them more. A concept you probably disagree with no doubt, but I don't care if you agree or not. You've probably never ran a business. I don't believe in paying people $50k a year to do a job that is worth $40k a year. Liberals just think money grows on trees, and that the responsibility of business owners isn't to earn a good profit, but to disburse those profits out to the workers, leaving no profit for the actual business owner!
 
Here's where you can find me slapping my forehead with my palm.....

If the individuals and employers stop funding health care, I'm assuming you understand that the government would then be responsible for funding it right? I mean, single payer IS what you are talking about after all.....

Now stop. Please try to use a little sense here.....

If the government pays for everyone's healthcare, which is what SINGLE PAYER is, where does the government get the money to pay for it??????

lol....I swear, do liberals ever think???

Get this through your head, the government cannot spend a single dime before it FIRST extracts money from the private sector economy through taxation. Get it? The money the government would spend on funding healthcare, WOULD STILL BE PAID by private sector tax payers. Understand now? The government doesn't make a profit on anything it does, so this is still funded by tax dollars.

Now, calculate the cost. You would either have to raise taxes dramatically in order to cover the costs!!!! You praise other country's who have SINGLE PAYER, but you refuse to recognize their freaking tax rates!!!! Every single person in Canada pays something in taxes. That's not so here in America. We would have to transition from 47% of Americans paying NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES, to approximately 5% paying NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES, just to cover the cost. So, you go ahead and campaign on tax hikes to pay for universal healthcare for everyone. It would sink like a lead balloon.

In Canada, there isn't simply a federal income tax rate, but there is also a PROVINCE/TERRITORY tax rate, in addition to a federal tax rate. Everyone is subject to paying it too. Wanna know the primary reason why? Single payer health care. EVERYONE has to pay something in order for it to work.

So, the day that EVERYONE starts paying income taxes in America, is the day that Obamacare MIGHT work.

Also, read the CBO reports on Obamacare. It takes 10 years of funding, to pay for 6 years of benefits. Let me translate this for you. It takes 10 years worth of premiums paid, to cover the 6 year costs of the insurance companies to cover pre-ex conditions, and children up to 26 years old. This is simply a fact jack.

Since the passage of Obamacare, it hasn't lowered the cost of anything! In fact, the rates have risen faster than any other 4 year period in history! 18% national average of increase IN ONE YEAR!

Compare the marginal tax rates in countries with universal health care, as opposed to marginal tax rates in America. When 90-95% of the country is willing to pay a much higher tax rate, then, maybe universal health care would work in this country. But when we have 47% of a nation that pays NOTHING in federal income tax, you simply cant fund it. Period.

So let Obama campaign all he wants for Obamacare and universal health care. He'll have to run on tax hikes, and big ones, in order to fund it.....that isn't going to fly in America. In England, the top marginal rate is 50%. Campaign on that Obama....see how far you get....

Where did i say anything about taxes? Yes taxes would go up but americans don't mind paying more if they know their healthcare is covered and don't have to deal with private insurers.
 
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This is why we need single-payer.

yeah, thats working out so well with social security and medicare.

doing the same thing and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.
 
Where did i say anything about taxes? Yes taxes would go up but americans don't mind paying more if they know there healthcare is covered and don't have to deal with private insurers.

LOL, I think it depends on HOW MUCH the cost goes up, don't you?
 
I actually pay $2232 per year for health insurance. I have a $5000 deductible, and it covers everything. That's also an individual plan, it's not even in a group plan.

I don't have "family" coverage, I have individual coverage. I'm in my mid 30s, and I'm healthy as a bull. Don't argue with me over what I pay! I know exactly what I pay son!

Okay, so it does have a huge deductible and it's not a family plan. And no, I don't believe that it covers "everything". Thus ... again ... not what I was talking about. And again, what we know is that every other advanced country in the world has some form of single payer, and we, the lone holdout with private insurance, pay DOUBLE what everyone else pays per capita. It ain't rocket science.
 
Another lie exposed. Another promise broken.

Health Premiums Up $3,000 Under Obama; He Had Vowed $2,500 Cut - Investors.com

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I wouldn't be surprised. Obamacare was a give away to the insurance companies. People now MUST get insurance, he essentially guaranteed through government force full customer participation. They can jack their prices to whatever they want so long as they do it in unison cause it's not like you can drop. Got to love corporate capitalism and oligarchy.
 
Okay, so it does have a huge deductible and it's not a family plan. And no, I don't believe that it covers "everything". Thus ... again ... not what I was talking about. And again, what we know is that every other advanced country in the world has some form of single payer, and we, the lone holdout with private insurance, pay DOUBLE what everyone else pays per capita. It ain't rocket science.

We have a family plan through my wife's employer, which is a hospital, and it does cover everything, except plastic surgery( although the hospital gives a discount to employees ).. Premium for the year is less than 2000, yearly deductible is 3000.

Granted, that plan is getting dumped in 2014 since its not allowed anymore.
 
We have a family plan through my wife's employer, which is a hospital, and it does cover everything, except plastic surgery( although the hospital gives a discount to employees ).. Premium for the year is less than 2000, yearly deductible is 3000.

Granted, that plan is getting dumped in 2014 since its not allowed anymore.

You think the hospital may get a special rate for some reason?
 
You think the hospital may get a special rate for some reason?

No different than any other group plan. Most of the coverage they offer is going away in 2014, since they are geared towards high deductible plans offset via HSAs.
 
Where did i say anything about taxes? Yes taxes would go up but americans don't mind paying more if they know their healthcare is covered and don't have to deal with private insurers.

Oh really? Americans don't mind paying more taxes you say? lol....that's news to me. I'de much rather deal with a private health insurance company than the federal government. Try telling THEM they made a mistake, see how far you get. Ever contested an IRS payment? I bet not.

You don't understand, the rise in taxes would be MORE for me than I'm actually paying for my insurance! Plus, my care is directly chosen by my doctor, not a board of unelected bureaucrats who will determine which treatment they will pay for, and which one they wont!

Liberals are so ignorant of what goes on in countries with universal health care. They truly believe that every single person is covered for whatever medical procedure is required. No cost. 100% covered. Wrong, and wrong again liberals. Care is severely rationed in countries with single payer universal health care. Severely. Wanna know the result? Compare mortality rates of Americans for diseases like Cancer and Heart disease. Those are the number one and number two causes of death in the US. But compare our mortality rates to other nations. It's not even close in most cases.

Liberals would trade quality for price. They would trade personal control for affordability. They would trade care for political victory. Here's some advice; renounce your citizenship, become a Brittish citizen, and go get you a taste of their wonderful free healthcare. Let me warn you, you will have to wait a few months to see a doctor, so hope you don't have some kind of emergency....
 
Yep, looks like that one's not going to work out.

Oh...you make it sound like anything he's promised has worked out.

I don't think so.
 
Okay, so it does have a huge deductible and it's not a family plan. And no, I don't believe that it covers "everything". Thus ... again ... not what I was talking about. And again, what we know is that every other advanced country in the world has some form of single payer, and we, the lone holdout with private insurance, pay DOUBLE what everyone else pays per capita. It ain't rocket science.

Apparantly it is FOR YOU! The way they cut costs is by rationing care, and I don't mean just a little rationing. They also tax 90-95% of their population SOMETHING. In addition to their overall marginal rates being way higher than those in the US.

At what cost son? 40% higher tax rates? You wanna know the economic impact in America if you rose tax rates by 40% across the board? And started forcing that 47% of Americans who pay nothing in federal income tax to pay?

LOL...you are delusional my friend....Raising taxes like that in America would all but destroy the economy. Pure foolish talk is all single payer is......
 
I wouldn't be surprised. Obamacare was a give away to the insurance companies. People now MUST get insurance, he essentially guaranteed through government force full customer participation. They can jack their prices to whatever they want so long as they do it in unison cause it's not like you can drop. Got to love corporate capitalism and oligarchy.

the deal with the insurance companies was a temporary ruse, the long range plan is to break the insurance companies and put everyone is a single payer govt plan. Doctors and hospitals will say f*** it and start forming medical co-ops with fees paid by subscribers. Might be the return of reasonable supply and demand medical care.
 
Oh really? Americans don't mind paying more taxes you say? lol....that's news to me. I'de much rather deal with a private health insurance company than the federal government. Try telling THEM they made a mistake, see how far you get. Ever contested an IRS payment? I bet not.

You don't understand, the rise in taxes would be MORE for me than I'm actually paying for my insurance! Plus, my care is directly chosen by my doctor, not a board of unelected bureaucrats who will determine which treatment they will pay for, and which one they wont!

Liberals are so ignorant of what goes on in countries with universal health care. They truly believe that every single person is covered for whatever medical procedure is required. No cost. 100% covered. Wrong, and wrong again liberals. Care is severely rationed in countries with single payer universal health care. Severely. Wanna know the result? Compare mortality rates of Americans for diseases like Cancer and Heart disease. Those are the number one and number two causes of death in the US. But compare our mortality rates to other nations. It's not even close in most cases.

Liberals would trade quality for price. They would trade personal control for affordability. They would trade care for political victory. Here's some advice; renounce your citizenship, become a Brittish citizen, and go get you a taste of their wonderful free healthcare. Let me warn you, you will have to wait a few months to see a doctor, so hope you don't have some kind of emergency....

Actually single payer would cut bureaucracy. Canada has less administrative costs than the US. Single payer gets rid of the middle man.
 
the real issue with obamacare is that there was no healthcare crisis that needed fixing. no one in the US (citizen or not) was denied medical care. Those who paid for insurance were funding the ones who did not---exactly the same as obamacare, except obamacare creates a huge new inefficient beaurocracy that will eat up trillions of dollars that could be used for medical care.

liberalism always fails, marxism always fails, communism always fails, collectivism always fails---------Always, but you on the left hired a radical marxist collectivist to destroy this country---you will get what you voted for.
 
Actually single payer would cut bureaucracy. Canada has less administrative costs than the US. Single payer gets rid of the middle man.

LOL, too funny 99, you make me :lamo
 
LOL, too funny 99, you make me :lamo

RESULTS
In 1999, health administration costs totaled at least $294.3 billion in the United States, or $1,059 per capita, as compared with $307 per capita in Canada. After exclusions, administration accounted for 31.0 percent of health care expenditures in the United States and 16.7 percent of health care expenditures in Canada. Canada's national health insurance program had overhead of 1.3 percent; the overhead among Canada's private insurers was higher than that in the United States (13.2 percent vs. 11.7 percent). Providers' administrative costs were far lower in Canada.

MMS: Error

A bit out dated so if you can find anything new please post
 
RESULTS
In 1999, health administration costs totaled at least $294.3 billion in the United States, or $1,059 per capita, as compared with $307 per capita in Canada. After exclusions, administration accounted for 31.0 percent of health care expenditures in the United States and 16.7 percent of health care expenditures in Canada. Canada's national health insurance program had overhead of 1.3 percent; the overhead among Canada's private insurers was higher than that in the United States (13.2 percent vs. 11.7 percent). Providers' administrative costs were far lower in Canada.

MMS: Error

A bit out dated so if you can find anything new please post

Well I guess that explains why Canadians come to the states when they have serious medical conditions.
 
Do you think that obamacare will reduce medical mistakes? Do you think doctors on fixed incomes will make more or less mistakes?

Are we talking about obama/romney/GOP healthcare plan or single payer?
 
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