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Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsured

Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

With Democrats - including on this forum - often stating that if someone doesn't buy insurance under ObamaCare has a medical emergency they should just be allowed to die, the OP is absurd.

But it does mirror what Michelle Obama's profession was - for $250,000 a year - to be a judas goat convincing poor blacks to NOT go to the emergency room - where there is the most trauma and emergency equipment care to instead go to the free clinic. ER is the most capable of all emergency and medical health care - for which we now see the OP joining in chiming that poor people shouldn't go to ER, but instead go wait in line at some approved clinic that is equiped for virtually nothing.

And, of course, the OP claims that everyone has to pay for everyone else's health care - his view of the inherent right of anyone to take anyone else's labor and money. Many Democrats have become pure socialists and completely anti-work ethic.
 
Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

He isn't suggesting it as a solution, he's making the observation that it is currently a widespread practice. He goes on to say:

Isn't it a basic principle that when you find a method that works you implement it in as many instances as possible? Why wouldn't you look to apply the MA model to Texas? Are you afraid of hurting their feelings? In 2010 Texas had a rate of uninsured adults of 33% or 50% higher than the national average. Whatever particular system they are currently utilizing(which appears to be pay or die) certainly isn't working. All the state by state model accomplishes is a confusing hodge podge with huge disparities in treatment and coverage.
 
Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

With Democrats - including on this forum - often stating that if someone doesn't buy insurance under ObamaCare has a medical emergency they should just be allowed to die, the OP is absurd.

But it does mirror what Michelle Obama's profession was - for $250,000 a year - to be a judas goat convincing poor blacks to NOT go to the emergency room - where there is the most trauma and emergency equipment care to instead go to the free clinic. ER is the most capable of all emergency and medical health care - for which we now see the OP joining in chiming that poor people shouldn't go to ER, but instead go wait in line at some approved clinic that is equiped for virtually nothing.

And, of course, the OP claims that everyone has to pay for everyone else's health care - his view of the inherent right of anyone to take anyone else's labor and money. Many Democrats have become pure socialists and completely anti-work ethic.

Most small clinics are MORE than equipped to handle a good chunk of the emergency room traffic that currently exists. People use the emergency room for fevers under 103, for sniffles or sore throats that have lasted more than a couple of days, for persistent diarrhea w/o loss of appetite, for flu shots, for doctor's notes when school/work has been missed.

For emergencies, by all means, use the ER. For inconvenient but all-to-common illnesses? Use the damned clinic. There are at least a few in most towns that offer income-based pricing.
 
Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

Isn't it a basic principle that when you find a method that works you implement it in as many instances as possible? Why wouldn't you look to apply the MA model to Texas? Are you afraid of hurting their feelings? In 2010 Texas had a rate of uninsured adults of 33% or 50% higher than the national average. Whatever particular system they are currently utilizing(which appears to be pay or die) certainly isn't working. All the state by state model accomplishes is a confusing hodge podge with huge disparities in treatment and coverage.

Because you can't force one state's laws onto another, except in terms of contractual agreements.
 
Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

ERs DO provide emergency and non emergent care for anyone that walks through the doors. All except private hospitals MUST provide treatment without regard for ability to pay and that INCLUDES follow on care.

That is simply incorrect. EMTALA only requires ER's to provide EMERGENCY care.

Just last week a neighbor was telling me that his house keeper was in Jamaica ... because she had breast tumors and couldn't afford pay for the surgery to remove them. She went to an ER when she suspected she had them and they told her that the would not treat her because it wasn't an emergency.
 
Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

so you believe that the general welfare clause empowers congress to do anything it declares to be proper notwithstanding the concept that the federal government was one of limited and enumerated powers and notwithstanding the Tenth Amendment? What you are saying is congress can do whatever it wants which is clearly and completely wrong and frighteningly ignorant of the entire premise upon which this nation was founded

Yes, congress can enact laws to use tax money for anything they can justify as being for the general welfare of the people. However, the balance of power allows for a challenge to the laws congress sets, which would hand the law over to the Supreme Court to declare if the law is constitutional or not. The Supreme Court would also decide if the 10th Amendment applies in any way. So if a Federal law is determined by the Supreme Court to be a state issue, then the law will be struck down on the Federal level.
 
Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

That is simply incorrect. EMTALA only requires ER's to provide EMERGENCY care.
Correct. Those without insurance typically receive the absolute minimum care that the hospital can provide while still meeting the standards for adequacy. Then the patient is discharged.
 
Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

Are rights granted by th Constitution, or by God?

If by God, do you really believe that God granted a right to have guns, but not to be healthy?

Why does an unborn child enjoy the right to life, but once you're born no such right exists?

I don't believe in god.
 
Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

Once again...geeeeezus you are predictable.

ANY mandated insurance plan is going to be 'expensive' for society. Funny how this country was created, formed, and ran for 230 years without a government mandated healthcare. Probably because for many of those years people had the understanding and expectation that care for self and family was a responsibility of the INDIVIDUAL and not society. Oh...but there HAS always been that safety net. ERs DO provide emergency and non emergent care for anyone that walks through the doors. All except private hospitals MUST provide treatment without regard for ability to pay and that INCLUDES follow on care. Not good enough for some though...they insist on cradle to grave care by big mommie government and the magic money fairy is going to pay for EVERYTHING. Without mandated health care the nation is 16 trillion in debt and climbing. The costs for the 'affordable' healthcare act continue to climb and we havent even seen it implemented yet.

Do you know how hospitals cover the cost of the uninsured who can not pay their medical bill? They over charge the insurance companies, then the insurance companies pass that cost on to the insured. So, basically, the insured is paying for the uninsured's medical coverage. The thing is, that pay is at a higher cost than if the uninsured had been able to go to a doctor's office and gotten care there. Like it or not, we are all paying for medical care for those who do not have insurance and can not pay their medical bill.
 
Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

Do you know how hospitals cover the cost of the uninsured who can not pay their medical bill? They over charge the insurance companies, then the insurance companies pass that cost on to the insured. So, basically, the insured is paying for the uninsured's medical coverage. The thing is, that pay is at a higher cost than if the uninsured had been able to go to a doctor's office and gotten care there. Like it or not, we are all paying for medical care for those who do not have insurance and can not pay their medical bill.

And with the ACA, that cost of the uninsured has moved from the insurance companies to the federal government( through subsidies ). But still, they don't have to get insurance even with the subsidies.
 
Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

Funny thing is that on an episode of Morning Joe back in 2010...Romney said pretty much the opposite.

He should know as a former governor how expensive ER care is. In fact, he does know what it is like...however, he continues to dig himself deeper into this hole.

Conservatives better look to 2016 because there isn't much hope for his election. You would think that this would be easy for a Republican...campaign on spending cuts (real ones), economic issues, and the follies of this president. Instead, he keeps shooting himself in the foot and they have to scramble to pull something out of 1998 to try and sway people.

This campaign is a large and utter failure. Republicans...I hope you are happy because you picked this moron. You picked this man because "he was the most electable." How does that bull taste? Clearly he isn't the most electable because he is about to get steamrolled in November.

I wish we could have gotten a clear contrast to Obama, but no...we got Thurston Howell III aka Mitt Romney.
 
Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

A hospital emergency department was not orginally set up to be a outpatient medical clinic. But unfortunately it has become just that offering the most expensive medical care for that toothache.


Suggesting that the ER is how to care for the uninsured shows just out of touch Romney is with the regular world. What an idiot.

Unfortunately...for you, that is...Romney made no such suggestion.

Rather he suggested that that is one of the ways that SOME STATES provide care for the needy. He also said that other States use other methods and all that is fine. He stated that the Federal Government should NOT be providing care...ala Obamacare.

Now I, personally, agree with you that the ER model we now have is the worst we can ever use, but you can thank our Federal Government for that one.
 
Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

I wish we could have gotten a clear contrast to Obama, but no...we got Thurston Howell III aka Mitt Romney.
That's a good one. Quite apt.
 
Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

Do you know how hospitals cover the cost of the uninsured who can not pay their medical bill? They over charge the insurance companies, then the insurance companies pass that cost on to the insured. So, basically, the insured is paying for the uninsured's medical coverage. The thing is, that pay is at a higher cost than if the uninsured had been able to go to a doctor's office and gotten care there. Like it or not, we are all paying for medical care for those who do not have insurance and can not pay their medical bill.
i DO know how they cover those costs. Very well. They are also reimbursed somewhat by the states (private hospitals that do not accept state funding are not mandated by law to see uninsured non-emergent care patients).

Yes...this may come as a shock to those that havent been paying attention for the first 230 years of this countries existence, but a-health care is expensive, b-people are expected to be personally responsible and c-when needed, there is a 'safety net'. Taking care of the absolutely incapable has always been something this country has done. Unfortunately we are forced now to take care of the unable AND the unwilling. Our existing system is breeding generations of crippled and dependent pets that have this inane expectation that someone will take care of them and WORSE...that somehow believe life is 'fair' and OMG that people shouldnt have to live with fear and pain. No wonder this country is becoming so incredibly ****ed up.

States may and where its citizens agree SHOULD provide some form of low and even no cost health care. States. They should address their need and by damn FUND their need.
 
Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

That is simply incorrect. EMTALA only requires ER's to provide EMERGENCY care.

Just last week a neighbor was telling me that his house keeper was in Jamaica ... because she had breast tumors and couldn't afford pay for the surgery to remove them. She went to an ER when she suspected she had them and they told her that the would not treat her because it wasn't an emergency.
I DO so love 'anecdotal stories. Working with several hospitals I see something very different and on a DAILY basis. Ive never seen ANYONE turned away for everything from open wounds to headaches. Private hospitals that dont receive state funding...different story. But...its always good to have a friend that had a friend that had a housekeeper that had a cousin that said something different to make a case. Sort of a 'Fluke' thing.
 
Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

Funny thing is that on an episode of Morning Joe back in 2010...Romney said pretty much the opposite.

He should know as a former governor how expensive ER care is. In fact, he does know what it is like...however, he continues to dig himself deeper into this hole.

Conservatives better look to 2016 because there isn't much hope for his election. You would think that this would be easy for a Republican...campaign on spending cuts (real ones), economic issues, and the follies of this president. Instead, he keeps shooting himself in the foot and they have to scramble to pull something out of 1998 to try and sway people.

This campaign is a large and utter failure. Republicans...I hope you are happy because you picked this moron. You picked this man because "he was the most electable." How does that bull taste? Clearly he isn't the most electable because he is about to get steamrolled in November.

I wish we could have gotten a clear contrast to Obama, but no...we got Thurston Howell III aka Mitt Romney.

I agree with you. I like having choices, but Romney isn't a viable choice. I like Obama, but had the GOP put someone up that had a better solution to our problems I may have voted for that person. I like Jon Huntsman bad during the primaries, but he wasn't far enough to the right to win the nomination. Romney was the only way that could flip flop enough to pander to the far right and still try and pander to the center. That's the only reason the GOP saw him as electable. The GOP really needs to get it's act together soon. They have gone off the deep end of the right.
 
Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

Because you can't force one state's laws onto another, except in terms of contractual agreements.

If it is done as a federal standard it appears you can. I think the SCOTUS just made that pretty clear. I also remember when the federal government forced all states to raise their drinking age to 21 by threatening to withhold highway funds.
 
Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

I DO so love 'anecdotal stories. Working with several hospitals I see something very different and on a DAILY basis. Ive never seen ANYONE turned away for everything from open wounds to headaches. Private hospitals that dont receive state funding...different story. But...its always good to have a friend that had a friend that had a housekeeper that had a cousin that said something different to make a case. Sort of a 'Fluke' thing.

I have to disagree here. I have had many experiences where the ER stablized me or a family member, then instructed us to see our primary care dotor for follow up. Unless someone is in a life or death situation, ER care is given at the minimum level. Often, people who have no primary care doctor and can't afford one will wait until their condition becomes life or death before going back to the ER. At this point, their medical care is much more expensive. Had they been able to follow up with a primary care doctor, their condition might have been managed and never reached the life or death stage.
 
Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

i DO know how they cover those costs. Very well. They are also reimbursed somewhat by the states (private hospitals that do not accept state funding are not mandated by law to see uninsured non-emergent care patients).

Yes...this may come as a shock to those that havent been paying attention for the first 230 years of this countries existence, but a-health care is expensive, b-people are expected to be personally responsible and c-when needed, there is a 'safety net'. Taking care of the absolutely incapable has always been something this country has done. Unfortunately we are forced now to take care of the unable AND the unwilling. Our existing system is breeding generations of crippled and dependent pets that have this inane expectation that someone will take care of them and WORSE...that somehow believe life is 'fair' and OMG that people shouldnt have to live with fear and pain. No wonder this country is becoming so incredibly ****ed up.

States may and where its citizens agree SHOULD provide some form of low and even no cost health care. States. They should address their need and by damn FUND their need.

This country hasn't always taken care of the incapable. One of the reasons so many people died during the Great Depression is because this country didn't have a health care plan for the people. Most of our saftey nets were established as a result of the suffering people went through during the Great Depression. People couldn't care for themselves, so government had to step in.
 
Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

I have to disagree here. I have had many experiences where the ER stablized me or a family member, then instructed us to see our primary care dotor for follow up. Unless someone is in a life or death situation, ER care is given at the minimum level. Often, people who have no primary care doctor and can't afford one will wait until their condition becomes life or death before going back to the ER. At this point, their medical care is much more expensive. Had they been able to follow up with a primary care doctor, their condition might have been managed and never reached the life or death stage.
We see people on a daily basis for non-emergent care needs. When individuals do not HAVE a primary care physician they are instructed to return to our ER for follow up OR are given a referral to the county provider that is already funded to provide care for un/underfunded patients. I work with several hospitals that do the same. Are they going to see you for a teeth cleaning? No. Free condoms? Go to the nearest state social services office. I have YET to see anyone turned away nor have I seen them given less than the best professional care. Lab screens and CT scans are frequently conducted on a 'just in case' basis. Point of fact, very few doctors or nurses give a damn about the patients ability to pay. They arent the gatekeepers for the hospitals bottom line and loathe the thought of it (primarily because it is a task they see as beneath them, not because they are wonderful and benevolent).

Again...if your state wants to provide health care and its citizens agree then you SHOULD. You should also be taxed accordingly to pay for it. For all the **** people give Romney, his state under his leadership did just that.
 
Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

This country hasn't always taken care of the incapable. One of the reasons so many people died during the Great Depression is because this country didn't have a health care plan for the people. Most of our saftey nets were established as a result of the suffering people went through during the Great Depression. People couldn't care for themselves, so government had to step in.
If you go back to some of the statements of the founding fathers there is a belief in providing for those truly incapable. That should be the model. The Great Depression is a bit of an anomaly you would have to agree and an unfortunate bi-product of all those 'safety nets' is they have this nasty habit of entrapping those they pretend to be there to save. As Roosevelt cautioned...continued reliance on government for self care runs the risk of creating dependence. Thats far more likely when politicians CREATE programs which are designed to do just that.

Want health care? Have your state vote for it and pay for it. Want to provide a sanctuary state? Pay for it. Want to provide 'free' social services across the board? Pay for it. Im all for states executing their rights. They should do just that. And they should pay for it. Not pass it on to the other states...and damn sure not pass it on to future generations.
 
Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

We see people on a daily basis for non-emergent care needs. When individuals do not HAVE a primary care physician they are instructed to return to our ER for follow up OR are given a referral to the county provider that is already funded to provide care for un/underfunded patients. I work with several hospitals that do the same. Are they going to see you for a teeth cleaning? No. Free condoms? Go to the nearest state social services office. I have YET to see anyone turned away nor have I seen them given less than the best professional care. Lab screens and CT scans are frequently conducted on a 'just in case' basis. Point of fact, very few doctors or nurses give a damn about the patients ability to pay. They arent the gatekeepers for the hospitals bottom line and loathe the thought of it (primarily because it is a task they see as beneath them, not because they are wonderful and benevolent).

Again...if your state wants to provide health care and its citizens agree then you SHOULD. You should also be taxed accordingly to pay for it. For all the **** people give Romney, his state under his leadership did just that.

Oh, I was not saying anything against the doctors and nursing proving care at the hospitals, but the hospital administrators in many hospitals will discourage their doctors and nurses from doing expensive tests than screanings for someone who has no insurance and will encourage these tests and screanings for people who do. Because every states provides for the uninsured differently gives, IMHO, more reason why health care should be managed nationally. The states are not providing equal care over all. Some states do a better job than others. I have lived in many states over the years and have seen personally how people are treated in the ER. Currently, I live in a state that provides very well for the uninsured. However, there are still cracks that people fall through that the AHA fixes. My husband often fell in those cracks and now we have hopes that his over all care will be managed better in the future.
 
Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

ER care = expensive as hell for society. Mitt should know and understand that as a business man.

I beg to differ with the term businessman when speaking of Romney. Venture Capitalist is what he actually was when he ran Bain.
 
Re: Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsu

normal doctors are way cheaper than emergency medicine. And it might cost lives, if an uninsured person is sitting in the waiting room of an ER it takes away the care and attention the doctors can maximally utilize for the really bad cases. They might even miss something they might have picked up on if they weren't so busy doing regular medical practices for the uninsured that regular doctors could and should be doing.
 
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