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Women's Issues

O

one more thing

Why would any woman vote for a Presidential Candidate who says he is an active Mormon, when the Mormon's don't even believe a woman can get to Heaven on her own? In their church, your husband has to "pull you through" for you to get to Heaven; oh, except if you have 7 children, then that is an automatic ticket into Heaven! WOW!
 
Why would any woman vote for a Presidential Candidate who says he is an active Mormon, when the Mormon's don't even believe a woman can get to Heaven on her own? In their church, your husband has to "pull you through" for you to get to Heaven; oh, except if you have 7 children, then that is an automatic ticket into Heaven! WOW!

I actually think Romney has been fairly good about keeping his religion separate from his political philosophies. I mean, he could have been Rick Santorum.
 
Why would any woman vote for a Presidential Candidate who says he is an active Mormon, when the Mormon's don't even believe a woman can get to Heaven on her own? In their church, your husband has to "pull you through" for you to get to Heaven; oh, except if you have 7 children, then that is an automatic ticket into Heaven! WOW!

Mormons do not believe any such thing.
 
Why would any woman vote for a Presidential Candidate who says he is an active Mormon, when the Mormon's don't even believe a woman can get to Heaven on her own? In their church, your husband has to "pull you through" for you to get to Heaven; oh, except if you have 7 children, then that is an automatic ticket into Heaven! WOW!

It is not "Heaven" it is Planet Kolob.

kolob-300x230.jpg
 
I actually think Romney has been fairly good about keeping his religion separate from his political philosophies. I mean, he could have been Rick Santorum.

Obama doesn't seem to have left the Trinity United Church of Chicago behind

The irony of this thread is thick
 
Mormons do not believe any such thing.

I'm no expert on Mormonism, but I believe you are incorrect.

"Celestial" marriage, as this eternal marriage is often called, is essential for Mormon women. Without being celestially married to a holder of the priesthood (Mormon males are automatically considered holders of priesthood), a woman cannot be "saved".

In the temple marriage ceremony, women are given secret names known only to their husbands, for identification purposes, so their husbands can pull them through to "the other side" after death (Laake 118)

The Role of Women in Mormonism

Until very recently (like last week), I just assumed Mormonism was a branch of Christianity, (like Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, etc...)but I've since learned their theology is radically different from what I know of Christianity.
 
Obama doesn't seem to have left the Trinity United Church of Chicago behind

The irony of this thread is thick

Three things here....

1) Can you EVER make a post in a thread and actually be on topic?

2) Can you EVER make a post where you DON'T mention Obama's name?

3) You don't know what irony means.​
 
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Why would any woman vote for a Presidential Candidate who says he is an active Mormon, when the Mormon's don't even believe a woman can get to Heaven on her own? In their church, your husband has to "pull you through" for you to get to Heaven; oh, except if you have 7 children, then that is an automatic ticket into Heaven! WOW!

Mormons do not believe any such thing.

I'm no expert on Mormonism, but I believe you are incorrect.

"Celestial" marriage, as this eternal marriage is often called, is essential for Mormon women. Without being celestially married to a holder of the priesthood (Mormon males are automatically considered holders of priesthood), a woman cannot be "saved".

In the temple marriage ceremony, women are given secret names known only to their husbands, for identification purposes, so their husbands can pull them through to "the other side" after death (Laake 118)

The Role of Women in Mormonism

Until very recently (like last week), I just assumed Mormonism was a branch of Christianity, (like Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, etc...)but I've since learned their theology is radically different from what I know of Christianity.

I've been a Mormon all my life. My ancestors have all been Mormons going back for three or four generations. I've been through the Temple ceremonies and everything.

There are a great many claims that have been made about Mormonism, including the claim that is under discussion here, that I have never heard from any source within Mormonism; but only from outside sources that deliberately spread lies about Mormonism, such as the source which you cited. It is a shame that so many people are so foolish as to believe such sources as those, rather than take the word of actual Mormons who know from direct firsthand experience what we are taught, what we believe, and what we practice.

But then I guess this is to be expected, on the basis that claims that are tawdry, scandalous, and bizarre, are more appealing, regardless of whether or not they may be true; than much more mundane claims that are more clearly true. In trying to explain our religion in an honest accurate manner, it is often difficult to compete in terms of this sort of appeal against the bizarre claims made about us by our enemies, which, while entirely untrue, are much more interesting than the truth.

But I will state this as clearly as I can. Mormonism does not teach, and never has taught, nor do Mormons believe, that a woman can only enter Heaven with the help of her husband, nor that having a certain number of children is relevant in any way to whether or not she gets to enter Heaven.
 
I've been a Mormon all my life. My ancestors have all been Mormons going back for three or four generations. I've been through the Temple ceremonies and everything.

There are a great many claims that have been made about Mormonism, including the claim that is under discussion here, that I have never heard from any source within Mormonism; but only from outside sources that deliberately spread lies about Mormonism, such as the source which you cited. It is a shame that so many people are so foolish as to believe such sources as those, rather than take the word of actual Mormons who know from direct firsthand experience what we are taught, what we believe, and what we practice.

But then I guess this is to be expected, on the basis that claims that are tawdry, scandalous, and bizarre, are more appealing, regardless of whether or not they may be true; than much more mundane claims that are more clearly true. In trying to explain our religion in an honest accurate manner, it is often difficult to compete in terms of this sort of appeal against the bizarre claims made about us by our enemies, which, while entirely untrue, are much more interesting than the truth.

But I will state this as clearly as I can. Mormonism does not teach, and never has taught, nor do Mormons believe, that a woman can only enter Heaven with the help of her husband, nor that having a certain number of children is relevant in any way to whether or not she gets to enter Heaven.

Ok. Thanks for the clarification. Does that include the highest level of "heaven", the Celestial and exaltation?
 
Why would any woman vote for a Presidential Candidate who says he is an active Mormon, when the Mormon's don't even believe a woman can get to Heaven on her own? In their church, your husband has to "pull you through" for you to get to Heaven; oh, except if you have 7 children, then that is an automatic ticket into Heaven! WOW!

Any woman that wouldn't vote for someone based on that person's religious convictions is a religionist. No different than a racist, sexist, etc.
 
Three things here....

1) Can you EVER make a post in a thread and actually be on topic?

2) Can you EVER make a post where you DON'T mention Obama's name?

3) You don't know what irony means.​

Did you get promoted recently and none of us were told?
 
Did you get promoted recently and none of us were told?

No, but my far superior intellect may make you feel inferior. I do apologize for that.
 
Why would any woman vote for a Presidential Candidate who says he is an active Mormon, when the Mormon's don't even believe a woman can get to Heaven on her own? In their church, your husband has to "pull you through" for you to get to Heaven; oh, except if you have 7 children, then that is an automatic ticket into Heaven! WOW!

I think you are wrong, but unmarried men and women cannot go to the highest heaven. I have read that you have to be celestially married to have that honor. Unmarried women and men can get into heaven but are not in the same position as married men and women.
 
I've been a Mormon all my life. My ancestors have all been Mormons going back for three or four generations. I've been through the Temple ceremonies and everything.
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But I will state this as clearly as I can. Mormonism does not teach, and never has taught, nor do Mormons believe, that a woman can only enter Heaven with the help of her husband, nor that having a certain number of children is relevant in any way to whether or not she gets to enter Heaven.

Ok. Thanks for the clarification. Does that include the highest level of "heaven", the Celestial and exaltation?

Exaltation is the highest position within the Celestial Kingdom. I don't know that we've been given a lot of detail about this, but my understanding is that while anyone who is otherwise worthy will make it to the Celestial Kingdom, only married couples will achieve exaltation. So I suppose that from that, you could claim that a woman can't make it there without her husband, but then neither would a man make it there without his wife. There is nothing in our religion that suggests the sort of one-sidedness of the claim made in the OP; certainly nothing to support the implied claim that the man will be able to enter Exaltation, while being able to deny his wife the ability to join him there.
 
No, but my far superior intellect may make you feel inferior. I do apologize for that.

Not a chance in hell, my man. :lamo

Maybe you can use that superior intellect to learn about semicolons. Just sayin'...
 
Exaltation is the highest position within the Celestial Kingdom. I don't know that we've been given a lot of detail about this, but my understanding is that while anyone who is otherwise worthy will make it to the Celestial Kingdom, only married couples will achieve exaltation. So I suppose that from that, you could claim that a woman can't make it there without her husband, but then neither would a man make it there without his wife. There is nothing in our religion that suggests the sort of one-sidedness of the claim made in the OP; certainly nothing to support the implied claim that the man will be able to enter Exaltation, while being able to deny his wife the ability to join him there.

Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial Kingdoms - Mormonism, The Mormon Church, Beliefs, & Religion - MormonWiki

Mormonwiki, seems to be a LDS friendly site... Here is what they have to say...

Except for little children, those who hope to prove worthy of eternal life in any of the mansions of the Celestial Kingdom must meet the following qualifications found in Doctrine and Covenants 76:50-53:

-Receive and be valiant in a testimony of Jesus Christ
-Be baptized in the name of Christ
-Receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost
-Obey the commandments of God
-Be washed and cleansed from all sins
-Overcome by faith and endure to the end
-Be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise (This is marriage, correct?)

This seems to back you your assertion that both need to be sealed in marriage to enter the Celestial kingdom.

On the other hand, I can understand the OPs concerns of sexism, for example, the Mormon Priesthood is reserved for men only. But many religions have a history of discrimination against women. I think some of the problem stems from the Mormon church's secrecy, so their theology is largely unknown to the average citizen.

I am all for religious freedom, believe what you want to believe, worship how you like. But, I also think it's fair to investigate a religion's beliefs, and how it might affect how a elected official might govern.
 
I think some of the problem stems from the Mormon church's secrecy, so their theology is largely unknown to the average citizen.

We really aren't as secretive as many think. We do have our Temple ceremonies, which we consider to be extremely sacred, such that we do not share details thereof with outsiders. This gives our enemies much room to make all sorts of bizarre claims about the content and meaning of these ceremonies, and it makes it difficult for us to adequately refute these claims. I suppose that even if we were free to openly discuss the details of these ceremonies with outsiders, we would still have a difficult time, for the reason that I mentioned earlier, that bizarre, tawdry, scandalous claims tend to be much more interesting than claims which are much more likely true, but which are not nearly so bizarre, tawdry, or scandalous. To one who doesn't fully understand the meanings in our Temple ceremonies, a complete and accurate account of them would truly be very uninteresting compared to the bizarre claims that are going around about these ceremonies.

But there is nothing secret about our doctrines. We have a consistent, orderly, open manner in which our doctrines are established and published. As with our temple ceremonies, there are a lot of very bizarre claims going around about what our doctrines actually are; that are usually rather far-removed from anything that we actually do believe and teach, based on the manner in which doctrines are officially established.
 
Having a caste system in heaven seems a bit unfair to me.
 
Why would any woman vote for a Presidential Candidate who says he is an active Mormon, when the Mormon's don't even believe a woman can get to Heaven on her own? In their church, your husband has to "pull you through" for you to get to Heaven; oh, except if you have 7 children, then that is an automatic ticket into Heaven! WOW!

Let's face it, if your first post is the start of a new thread, you are probably trolling.
 
I think you are wrong, but unmarried men and women cannot go to the highest heaven. I have read that you have to be celestially married to have that honor. Unmarried women and men can get into heaven but are not in the same position as married men and women.

Even in death they have separations much like separation of the classes or races....I don't buy it and no Christian that I know thinks there are separate parts of heaven depending on your status in life on earth....you either make it to heaven or you don't.....they don't even have equality within their own church so how can anyone expect them to share in the concept that we as American's are all created equal...espcially us women?
 
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