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The Oceans

AdamT said:
I was afraid of that. Here's a hint:

Greenlandmap.gif
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You know what? Glaciers grow and shrink. Always have and always will. There is a glacier that was receding and this is proof of the unprecedented warming that is going on right now. Right?

Well, not exactly. When the ice receded far enough, it revealed the site of a guy who sat down on dry ground and died right there only to be covered by snow and then ice and stayed that way for 5000 years. His ax was leaning against the rock where he left it and the mummified remains were in perfect, albeit dehydrated, shape.

Which model SUV was it that caused THAT warming?
 
code1211 said:
You know what? Glaciers grow and shrink. Always have and always will. There is a glacier that was receding and this is proof of the unprecedented warming that is going on right now. Right?

Well, not exactly. When the ice receded far enough, it revealed the site of a guy who sat down on dry ground and died right there only to be covered by snow and then ice and stayed that way for 5000 years. His ax was leaning against the rock where he left it and the mummified remains were in perfect, albeit dehydrated, shape.

Which model SUV was it that caused THAT warming?
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This is the wrong forum for a global warming class, but no one disputes that there is and always has been natural climate change. That doesn't negate the fact that the vast majority of warming we've been seeing for the last 50 or so years is man made.
 
Dittohead not! said:
How does he plan to accomplish that? It sounds a lot like the Bible story of Jesus on in the midst of the storm saying, "peace, be still." Somehow, I doubt words are going to accomplish much. and now, we're off and running on yet another global warming debate. Isn't happening! Is too! Is not! Geez, guys, you can't refute every scientific organization on Earth by posting on an internet forum. and, it really doesn't matter anyway. No one is going to stop the rise of the oceans, the change of climates, or that runaway express train. No one.
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Can you show the photographic evidence of the sea level rise on the shores of the great cities of the world? There should be a very obvious rise of 8 vertical inches.

I'll wait here.
 
AdamT said:
This is the wrong forum for a global warming class, but no one disputes that there is and always has been natural climate change. That doesn't negate the fact that the vast majority of warming we've been seeing for the last 50 or so years is man made.
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Proof is required to make that leap. Nobody has come up with it yet.
 
code1211 said:
Can you show the photographic evidence of the sea level rise on the shores of the great cities of the world? There should be a very obvious rise of 8 vertical inches. I'll wait here.
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How will you see my response with your head in the sand like that? Perhaps your silly strawman will alert you.
 
code1211 said:
Can you show the photographic evidence of the sea level rise on the shores of the great cities of the world? There should be a very obvious rise of 8 vertical inches.

I'll wait here.
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No one claims that sea levels have risen eight inches. Classic strawman.

But sea levels are rising, and the rise is accelerating.


There's no place on Earth that's changing faster – and no place where that change matters more – than Greenland. Late last month, NASA reported that ice all across the vast glacial interior of the world's largest island was melting – a "freak event" that hadn't occurred for at least 150 years. The alarming discovery briefly focused the media's attention on a place that rarely makes headlines. RAPID ICE MELT BAFFLES SCIENTISTS, The Wall Street Journal declared.

In fact, scientists weren't baffled at all – a paper published just weeks before had predicted that an abrupt, islandwide melt was imminent. The rapid loss of ice is only the latest in a chain of events that have upended conventional understanding of how the Earth's "cryosphere" – its frozen places – behave. Taken together, the events offer new insight into how fast the world's seas are likely to rise as a result of global warming – and hence, the fate of major cities like New York and Miami and Mumbai.



Read more: The Arctic Ice Crisis | Politics News | Rolling Stone
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Dittohead not! said:
How will you see my response with your head in the sand like that? Perhaps your silly strawman will alert you.
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If there is no proof, then I understand your inability to present it.

Why you feel the need to disparage me personally is beyond me.

If the ocean is rising, the photographic evidence exists. Show it.
 
AdamT said:
No one claims that sea levels have risen eight inches. Classic strawman.

But sea levels are rising, and the rise is accelerating.
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In point of fact, that is the amount of sea level rise that the alarmists assert.
 
code1211 said:
If there is no proof, then I understand your inability to present it. Why you feel the need to disparage me personally is beyond me. If the ocean is rising, the photographic evidence exists. Show it.
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I'm not trying to disparage you personally at all, just pointing out your strawman arguments. Where did I claim that sea levels had risen 8 inches? Why are you asking me for photographic evidence of something I didn't claim? How about you giving us some photographic evidence of sasquatch?
 
code1211 said:
In point of fact, that is the amount of sea level rise that the alarmists assert.
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That is about the amount of sea level rise since 1870 -- according to scientists. I don't think there were a lot of cameras in 1870, but there were tide measurements, which is how we know.
 
AdamT said:
That is about the amount of sea level rise since 1870 -- according to scientists. I don't think there were a lot of cameras in 1870, but there were tide measurements, which is how we know.
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There are plenty of photographs of events and points of interest worldwide. Ever hear of Mathew Brady? He went broke photographing the Civil war.

There are plenty of pictures of the crowds at Coney Island and various other sites around the world before the turn of the 20th Century. If the ocean is rising at the rate claimed, then it is and there should be photographic evidence of the changes.
 
Another Lurker said:
Nice way to dodge a question. Question #3 was what is the elevation of Florida?

A L
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Since I live here I can tell you ... 210 ft we have been underwater several times before... there is a small chain od "Islands" known as the scrub, that have never been underwater, but most of floridas HAS BEEN underwater at some point in our past.
 
AdamT said:
That is about the amount of sea level rise since 1870 -- according to scientists. I don't think there were a lot of cameras in 1870, but there were tide measurements, which is how we know.
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I wish you would be so kind as to answer this:

Another Lurker said:
The numbers you use I can only assume are correct ... if all the cap melts. If all the cap melts ... where are the poles? Does the Earth spin on a new axis?
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A L
 
Another Lurker said:
I wish you would be so kind as to answer this:



A L
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I believe someone else already answered it. Much more politely than I will. :D

Exactly WTF do you think the poles are? The end caps on some kind of axle on which the earth rotates? No, the poles are just the current ends of the axis of rotation, which has nothing whatsoever to do with surface conditions where they're located. In fact the exact location of the earth's axis, and thus the actual poles, shifts all the time.
 
tererun said:
So are you saying that Mitt Romney doesn't care about our slow drowning death as long as he can make some money? I guess if florida sinks he won't have to worry about losing it.
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If Romney cares about the planet and promises to do something politically and financially feasible about the rising seas and global warming as long as it's guaranteed to be effective that still leaves him doing nothing.

Or perhaps you can tell us which of the proposals from climate alarmists that are politically and financially within reach can be relied upon to actually have a significant effect on the climate.

See, the thing is that Obama was just full of crap. There was never any chance that he would do those things.
 
AdamT said:
I believe someone else already answered it. Much more politely than I will. :D
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Yes, there was a sixth-grade science answer to a serious esoteric, adult question.

AdamT said:
Exactly WTF do you think the poles are? The end caps on some kind of axle on which the earth rotates? No, the poles are just the current ends of the axis of rotation, which has nothing whatsoever to do with surface conditions where they're located. In fact the exact location of the earth's axis, and thus the actual poles, shifts all the time.
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Actually, your answer is incorrect ... the magnetic poles shift ... the axis of rotation does not.

And the axis of rotation is precisely my point. Because of the location of Greenland ... how is it possible for the entire cap to melt? Your numbers said something about 23+ feet of water IF they completely melted.

How is it possible for the Greenland cap to completely melt without a different axis of rotation? Now we have done a lap and have gotten back to the question that you are so huffy about ... should the entire Greenland icecap melt ... where would the poles be?

A L
 
LowDown said:
If Romney cares about the planet and promises to do something politically and financially feasible about the rising seas and global warming as long as it's guaranteed to be effective that still leaves him doing nothing.

Or perhaps you can tell us which of the proposals from climate alarmists that are politically and financially within reach can be relied upon to actually have a significant effect on the climate.

See, the thing is that Obama was just full of crap. There was never any chance that he would do those things.
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Clint? Is that you?

:)
 
Another Lurker said:
How is it possible for the Greenland cap to completely melt without a different axis of rotation?
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Now, there's an esoteric scientific question. Sure. It is possible for the Greenland ice sheets to melt if the climate of Greenland gets significantly warmer. The axis of rotation has nothing to do with it. There you go, an esoteric answer to an esoteric question.
 
global warming is a hoax, algore and obama are frauds---------end of discussion.
 
Bobcat said:
global warming is a hoax, algore and obama are frauds---------end of discussion.
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So tell me who stands to benefit from this hoax, Bobcat. People don't do things like this for no reason.
 
Another Lurker said:
Yes, there was a sixth-grade science answer to a serious esoteric, adult question.



Actually, your answer is incorrect ... the magnetic poles shift ... the axis of rotation does not.

And the axis of rotation is precisely my point. Because of the location of Greenland ... how is it possible for the entire cap to melt? Your numbers said something about 23+ feet of water IF they completely melted.

How is it possible for the Greenland cap to completely melt without a different axis of rotation? Now we have done a lap and have gotten back to the question that you are so huffy about ... should the entire Greenland icecap melt ... where would the poles be?

A L
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Your assertions are both incorrect and nonsensical. In fact the axis of rotation does shift, as do the magnetic poles (which also reverse polarity from time to time). And obviously there is nothing magical about the poles that requries them to always be frozen. In fact, there is no question that Greenland's ice sheet is melting and that the melt is accelerating.

Climate skeptics and deniers like to point to the cost of addressing the problem, with the implicit assumption that it would be cheaper to do nothing, or to simply deal with the problems as they arise. Unfortunately economists who have studied the issue have concluded that it would be much more cost effective to be proactive and limit the damage, rather than simply address the damage as it occurs. Here's a timely article from today's Miami Herald:

Rising sea comes at a cost for South Florida cities

A proposed $206 million overhaul of Miami Beach’s antiquated drainage system is just the first of many big-ticket bills South Florida faces.

By CURTIS MORGAN

Cmorgan@Miamiherald.com


Climate change may be the subject of debate in some places but in South Florida it’s become a costly reality.

In Miami Beach, where prolonged flooding in low-lying neighborhoods has become the norm after heavy storms, city leaders are weighing a $206 million overhaul of an antiquated drainage system increasingly compromised by rising sea level.

The plan calls for more pumps, wells to store storm runoff, higher sea walls and “back-flow’’ preventers for drain pipes flowing into Biscayne Bay. Those devices are intended to stop the system from producing the reverse effect it often does now. During seasonal high tides, the salty bay regularly puddles up from sewer grates in dozens of spots, such as near the local westside bar Purdy Lounge. Extreme high tides — like one in October 2010 — can push in enough sea water to make streets impassable, including blocks of the prime artery of Alton Road.

“It’s the first time, as far as I know, that any community in South Florida and actually in the entire state of Florida is taking into account sea level rise as they plan their storm water infrastructure,” said Fred Beckmann, the city’s public works director, during a public hearing on the plan earlier this month.

It won’t be the last time.

Read more here: Rising sea comes at a cost for South Florida cities - Miami-Dade - MiamiHerald.com
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Somerville said:
No they don't. I do understand that nuance is not a rightie trait but the actual reports include the word "some" but not "all" Some Himalayan glaciers actually growing, scientists find
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Correct. The lower elevation glaciers are melting off, but the higher up ones are getting more precipitation and so are growing. This surprised the scientists who expected the overall extent of glaciation to decrease. The changes in precipitation are unpredictable still. and, of course, the pseudo scientists pounced on the glaciers growing story to say, "See! See! We pundits and bloggers were right all along! Global warming isn't real, because the glaciers are growing!"
 
waas said:
So tell me who stands to benefit from this hoax, Bobcat. People don't do things like this for no reason.
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The carbon credits marketeers--------let by the profit of AGW the great fool known as Algore.

But when liberals are involved, there isn't always a profit motive, they just want to control the activities of others because it makes them feel superior---something about that defective liberal gene known as DRD4.
 
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