• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Romney gives $100 mil TAX FREE to his kids [W:237]

274ina said:
Then lets write a law that says union leaders can ripp off and murder CEO's during any strike. Then murder will be fine right?
Click to expand...

Go ahead and see if you can get a law passed like that. I won't hold my breath.
 
Born Free said:
So does half of all Americans, 50% of the American people don't pay a dime in federal income taxes.
Click to expand...

Yeah, those dumb, broke bastards should pay up. And if we keep saying "they don't pay a dime in federal taxes" we can convince ourselves that it means they don't pay any taxes at all!
 
Born Free said:
So does half of all Americans, 50% of the American people don't pay a dime in federal income taxes.
Click to expand...

And among that 50%, 57% actually receive a LARGER tax return than what they paid in. They are literally MAKING MONEY off the current tax system. Through two channels: the earned income tax credit, and the dependent child tax credit.
 
Ikari said:
Yeah, those dumb, broke bastards should pay up. And if we keep saying "they don't pay a dime in federal taxes" we can convince ourselves that it means they don't pay any taxes at all!
Click to expand...

So, what taxes would you "cut" for these people who pay nothing in federal income tax? Sales tax? That would benefit the rich more, because they buy more. Capital gains tax rate? Because that would help the rich more too, because they realize a larger percentage of their incomes through capital gains.

I mean, can you cut something BELOW zero?????

So, pray tell, what tax would you cut to ease the burden on the middle class. Remember, you cant cut the federal income tax any lower than 0.....
 
Born Free said:
Go ahead and see if you can get a law passed like that. I won't hold my breath.
Click to expand...

But but but, as long as its a law its ok right?

slavery, and rape and murder of them was the law and it was ok........
the poor not voting was the law and it was ok........
lords killing the surf was ok because it was the law........

point is, just because its "legal" does not make is fair to all the people in a Democracy.
 
Masada said:
Since you 100% speculate about everything else. Tell me what's in Romney's tax returns that you think he's hiding.

Go.....
Click to expand...

That's EXACTLY the point...the American people should not have to speculate, nor should they just have to take a candidates "word". Romney needs to come clean and explain to the American people what is in his tax records that he is so afraid to disclose.
 
Masada said:
And among that 50%, 57% actually receive a LARGER tax return than what they paid in. They are literally MAKING MONEY off the current tax system. Through two channels: the earned income tax credit, and the dependent child tax credit.
Click to expand...

yes, only those with lots of kids.

Rest of us are screwed.

Then include FICA, gas taxes, sales taxes.

I jsut paid 40% taxes on a scooter I bought. Sales tax and tags.
 
274ina said:
But but but, as long as its a law its ok right?

slavery, and rape and murder of them was the law and it was ok........
the poor not voting was the law and it was ok........
lords killing the surf was ok because it was the law........

point is, just because its "legal" does not make is fair to all the people in a Democracy.
Click to expand...

There's that word again....."fair".

What's unfair about every single person paying the exact same flat tax rate?

When will the left leave their emotions at the door and start using their brains??????
 
Masada said:
So, what taxes would you "cut" for these people who pay nothing in federal income tax? Sales tax? That would benefit the rich more, because they buy more. Capital gains tax rate? Because that would help the rich more too, because they realize a larger percentage of their incomes through capital gains.

I mean, can you cut something BELOW zero?????

So, pray tell, what tax would you cut to ease the burden on the middle class. Remember, you cant cut the federal income tax any lower than 0.....
Click to expand...

Let's address you're two logical fallacies.

The main one. I did not say I would cut taxes for the poor. Someone bitched about them not paying federal taxes, which if you're poor enough is true (though the trade off doesn't seem all that great). I said "And if we keep saying "they don't pay a dime in federal taxes" we can convince ourselves that it means they don't pay any taxes at all!" In that we are going to take this outrage as if the poor pay nothing. But the poor do still pay, it's just tough to get blood from a stone. I'm not looking to remove any more of their tax burden, they have to pay something.

The second one, perhaps not meant. Your last sentence seems to imply that the middle class pays no federal income tax. But that's BS. Much of the middle class (if not all, I do not have the stats on hand) pay some level of federal income tax.
 
I like how the debate of Romney's taxes is hinged completely on his alleged "avoidance"... when in all actuality, even if he paid a 1% tax rate, he'd still be contributing more to the public good than someone who makes $50k a year, even if that person were taxed at 100%.

Romney pays taxes. Romney pays a lot in taxes. The government redistributes a lot of Romney money every year. And since all of his tax filings happen to be legal... where is the real controversy?

Oh yeah. There isn't one. Welcome to a major election year, America. I'm putting on my waders.
 
274ina said:
yes, only those with lots of kids.

Rest of us are screwed.

Then include FICA, gas taxes, sales taxes.

I jsut paid 40% taxes on a scooter I bought. Sales tax and tags.
Click to expand...

Imagine what John Kerry paid in taxes on his luxury yaugt! You act as though rich people don't pay sales taxes too! You act as though rich people don't buy the same gasoline you buy, thus paying the exact same taxes, but on a larger scale. I'm sure Al Gore's plane uses much more fuel than your car now doesn't it?

So, the basic premise is this, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. If you say it's good to cut taxes on middle class folks, why wouldn't it be good to cut everyone's taxes? This my friend is called "logic". You should try it instead of using this emotional response concerning "fairness".

What is your point? That the poor pay taxes? Sure they do, every time they buy something. But so do the rich, and the rich pay a disproportionate share of sales tax as well, because they items they buy are far more expensive than those items being bought by average working class citizens.

All the way around, they pay MORE taxes. Far more. What isn't fair about that?
 
Taylor said:
Oh look! A new breed of "birthers!" - they took the old argument and replaced "Obama" with "Romney" and "birth certificate" with "tax records!"
Click to expand...

Completely different. How many Presidential candidates have ever been asked to show a birth certificate? Hmmmm....let me give you a clue......1.

How many decades of Presidential election precedent have involved every candidate before Romney releasing numerous years of tax records. Why is Romney different than everyone else?
 
Born Free said:
You mean if it's legal you should not do it? If the IRS say you can do this, you say you should not. What kind of logic is that?
Click to expand...

Its legal to put your money is Swiss Bank Accounts and off shore accounts in the Cayman Islands, but is that person worthy to lead this country? That's for the American people to decide, but Romney should come clean and give the public the information it needs to make an informed choice...not just accept him at his "word". Romney has proven time and again that his "word" isn't worth much.
 
Ikari said:
Let's address you're two logical fallacies.

The main one. I did not say I would cut taxes for the poor. Someone bitched about them not paying federal taxes, which if you're poor enough is true (though the trade off doesn't seem all that great). I said "And if we keep saying "they don't pay a dime in federal taxes" we can convince ourselves that it means they don't pay any taxes at all!" In that we are going to take this outrage as if the poor pay nothing. But the poor do still pay, it's just tough to get blood from a stone. I'm not looking to remove any more of their tax burden, they have to pay something.

The second one, perhaps not meant. Your last sentence seems to imply that the middle class pays no federal income tax. But that's BS. Much of the middle class (if not all, I do not have the stats on hand) pay some level of federal income tax.
Click to expand...

Do the math man. If 48% of the nation pays NOTHING in federal income tax, are you implying that 48% of the nation is "poor"? Because that is incorrect. While some in the middle class DO pay federal income tax, they are the ones at the threshhold of middle class and upper class. 48% of the nation isn't "poor", but 48% of the nation pays nothing in federal income tax. So, one can conclude that a large percentage of the middle class pays NOTHING in federal income tax as well.

You act as though the rich don't pay sales taxes. Newsflash: THEY DO. And they pay a disproportionate amount of those taxes as well as federal income taxes. The things they buy are much more expensive, therefore, the taxes are much greater. The only way your argument makes sense, is if you can cite a tax that the middle and lower class pays that the rich don't pay as well! Can you cite such a tax? Because I cant

So which tax would you cut for the middle and lower classes?
 
disneydude said:
Its legal to put your money is Swiss Bank Accounts and off shore accounts in the Cayman Islands, but is that person worthy to lead this country? That's for the American people to decide, but Romney should come clean and give the public the information it needs to make an informed choice...not just accept him at his "word". Romney has proven time and again that his "word" isn't worth much.
Click to expand...

And Obama should come out and PROVE that he enlisted into Columbia University as an American citizen, and not a foreign exchange student. The day he does that, is the day I'll be calling on Romney to release some more tax returns......

That's "fair". You liberals wanna play this fairness game? let's play it. Obama to release Columbia records, Romney to release tax returns.....game on....
 
Masada said:
Do the math man. If 48% of the nation pays NOTHING in federal income tax, are you implying that 48% of the nation is "poor"? Because that is incorrect. While some in the middle class DO pay federal income tax, they are the ones at the threshhold of middle class and upper class. 48% of the nation isn't "poor", but 48% of the nation pays nothing in federal income tax. So, one can conclude that a large percentage of the middle class pays NOTHING in federal income tax as well.

You act as though the rich don't pay sales taxes. Newsflash: THEY DO. And they pay a disproportionate amount of those taxes as well as federal income taxes. The things they buy are much more expensive, therefore, the taxes are much greater. The only way your argument makes sense, is if you can cite a tax that the middle and lower class pays that the rich don't pay as well! Can you cite such a tax? Because I cant

So which tax would you cut for the middle and lower classes?
Click to expand...

More and more people pay "no federal income tax" because more and more people are becoming poor. The middle class is shrinking, and it ain't because we're all getting richer. Wealth is accumulating into fewer and fewer hands while wealth disparity continues to skyrocket. All facilitated through force of government.
 
Ikari said:
Let's address you're two logical fallacies.

The main one. I did not say I would cut taxes for the poor. Someone bitched about them not paying federal taxes, which if you're poor enough is true (though the trade off doesn't seem all that great). I said "And if we keep saying "they don't pay a dime in federal taxes" we can convince ourselves that it means they don't pay any taxes at all!" In that we are going to take this outrage as if the poor pay nothing. But the poor do still pay, it's just tough to get blood from a stone. I'm not looking to remove any more of their tax burden, they have to pay something.

The second one, perhaps not meant. Your last sentence seems to imply that the middle class pays no federal income tax. But that's BS. Much of the middle class (if not all, I do not have the stats on hand) pay some level of federal income tax.
Click to expand...

Taxing the rich would yield additional revenues, but that doesn't help the middle class. We do not have a direct payment to the middle class of tax revenues generated from taxing the rich more! So how would it help the middle class? Fact is, it wouldn't. It would just be more money going to government which wastes 23 cents out of every dollar it takes in. Good idea? Give them more of our money to waste.....good call libs.
 
Masada said:
Taxing the rich would yield additional revenues, but that doesn't help the middle class. We do not have a direct payment to the middle class of tax revenues generated from taxing the rich more! So how would it help the middle class? Fact is, it wouldn't. It would just be more money going to government which wastes 23 cents out of every dollar it takes in. Good idea? Give them more of our money to waste.....good call libs.
Click to expand...

Nope, what would help the middle and lower classes the most would be a return to good ol' free market capitalism. So long as we're stuck in the fascist arm of economics, Corporate Capitalism, economic mobility will continue to falter.
 
Ikari said:
More and more people pay "no federal income tax" because more and more people are becoming poor. The middle class is shrinking, and it ain't because we're all getting richer. Wealth is accumulating into fewer and fewer hands while wealth disparity continues to skyrocket. All facilitated through force of government.
Click to expand...

That's an outright misinterpretation. Wealth is not "finite". Just because Mitt Romney gets richer, doesn't mean someone else is getting poorer. Meaning, just because a person becomes more wealthy, that's not why poor people are getting poorer. Your whole interpretation of wealth is messed up. Romney is making his money off of already uber rich corporations, through investments he's made. He isn't taking a single dime from the working class.

In addition, you are using a 4 year snap shot and trying to convince me it's the historical trend. And it's not. The wealth of the middle class has risen by 34% from 1979 to 2009. While the wealth of the top 1% has decreased by .4% over the same time period. This is also a statistical fact. You are using a 4 year snapshot to try to paint a broad picture, and you are absolutely, unequivically wrong.

Here's the truth. From 1979 to 2009, taxes have become MORE progressive. The rich are paying a much larger percentage of the tax burden than they were 30 years ago. Yet, poverty numbers have risen, along with the income inequality. Hows that possible? I mean, liberals argue that the way to shorten the gap between rich and poor is to have a more progressive tax system and tax the rich more. Well, the system is more progressive. 48% of Americans pay nothing in federal income tax. How much more progressive would you like it to be? Yet the income inequality is greater now than before. Despite the wealth of the middle class increasing by 34% over that 30 year period.

These are serious questions. How is that possible?
 
Ikari said:
Nope, what would help the middle and lower classes the most would be a return to good ol' free market capitalism. So long as we're stuck in the fascist arm of economics, Corporate Capitalism, economic mobility will continue to falter.
Click to expand...

Free market capitalism allows for people to become extremely rich. Including corporations. But you seem to oppose those things. Free market capitalism suggests a more and more progressive tax system? lol....which college did you study economics at?

What's your solution then? Tax the rich at what percentage? And what is your plan for the additional revenues? Unless you directly redistribute those revenues to the middle class, how is it helping them at all?
 
Masada said:
That's an outright misinterpretation. Wealth is not "finite".
Click to expand...

Wealth is not "finite" per say, but it is not infinite either. Yet another logical fallacy. Just because gains CAN be made without losses from other groups does not mean ALL gains are made without losses from other groups. See how that works? And if you look at the statistics, you see that wealth IS aggregating into fewer and fewer hands while wealth disparity continually grows. You can feign any argument you want, but in the end numbers don't lie.
 
Ikari said:
Wealth is not "finite" per say, but it is not infinite either. Yet another logical fallacy. Just because gains CAN be made without losses from other groups does not mean ALL gains are made without losses from other groups. See how that works? And if you look at the statistics, you see that wealth IS aggregating into fewer and fewer hands while wealth disparity continually grows. You can feign any argument you want, but in the end numbers don't lie.
Click to expand...

I didn't argue that fact. My point was that liberals argue that a more progressive tax system bridges the income inequality gap. But over the last 30 years, the tax system has become far more progressive, yet the gap widens. How is that possible?

30 years ago, only about 22% of the nation did not pay federal income taxes. Then comes along the EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT. And in just a few short years, that number rose to 49% of all Americans paying NOTHING in federal income taxes.

In addition to that, 113 million Americans utilize some form of welfare. Way up under Obama. Despite having the MOST PROGRESSIVE tax system in decades. You have to go back to the early 70s, when taxes on the rich exceeded 70%. Take a look at that time period. It was a period of stagnant economic growth, high interest rates, high unemployment, and high inflation.

Our tax system is as progressive as it was under FDR, and the income inequality is GREATER! Wait, wait, wait.....how is that possible? After all, liberals say that raising the taxes of the rich shrinks that gap. Hmmmmm.....could it be that liberals were wrong?

While wealth is neither "finite" of "infinite", the fact that Warren Buffett is getting richer does not mean everyone else is getting poorer. That's not how it works. I have proven that to you. The wealth of the middle class has risen 34% over the past 30 years, while the wealth of the top 1% has stayed pretty flat. They are not inversely related. I made more money last year than I did the year before, does that mean it came at the expense of someone making less money? Absolutely not. That kind of mindset and belief is based on class warfare rhetoric. That's what Obama want's people to believe. But it's a flat out lie.
 
Ikari said:
Yeah, those dumb, broke bastards should pay up. And if we keep saying "they don't pay a dime in federal taxes" we can convince ourselves that it means they don't pay any taxes at all!
Click to expand...

This discussion is about Federal Income taxes, 50% of Americans don't pay a dime in federal income taxes. So that leaves all the rich bastards who pay it all. Yet you say the rich have all the loopholes so they don't have to pay any federal income taxes. So who pays? If you want to know try the top income earners that have all those loopholes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom