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Reid may have told the truth, but there is a caveat

I have a suggestion, and I bet this would shut down Obama and his pack of wolves, Romney should hold a press conference …. And tell the Obama pack that he will release his tax records asked for, the same time Obama releases his college records.

By the very same assumption that the leftist liberals are making here, there has to be something in Obama’s college records that he is hiding, he is spending million on lawyers to keep them sealed what is he trying to hide ??

So simple … Romney releases his tax records … when Obama releases his college records .. That should make both sides happy .. Sheez I like that idea so much .. . I think I’m going to write to Romney’s campaign and suggest it .

If we want to get down to reality here, this is nothing more then a diversion by the far left. Something they are excellent at. We don’t want to talk about 8% unemployment, the terrible economy, gas prices, the wars “still” going on, the debt, or the deficit….. So lets deflect and talk about Romney”s tax returns, Face facts people … that is all the liberals have left!!
 
DA60 said:
His 'fair share' in taxes is exactly as much as the law requires him to pay...no more.

If the legal loopholes allow him to legally pay less - then he is paying his 'fair share' even if he takes advantage of those loopholes.


Sure, the tax laws allow the rich to pay a ton less in taxes on a % basis if they plan it right.

So?

Change the laws.

But to blame someone for (possibly) taking advantage of those laws is wrong.


If the left spent as much effort trying to change the offshore tax laws as they did whining about Romney not releasing his returns/info then the law would be well on it's way to being changed by now.

The left does little to change the law but goes ballistic if someone actually utilizes it.
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Your right "BY LAW" and within the law he can slither and snake and pay hardly anything, the point isnt about whether its legal or not...its about whether it will get him ELECTED and it will NOT...and if the real truth of how little the rich truly have been paying all along because of these LEGAL loopholes became in your face known by the american people the party would be over...The very rich know that and thats why Romney cannot release and stick his financials in Americas Face...legal has nothing to do with it...no one denies he did it legally...its legally DISGUSTING is what it is.
 
cpwill said:
:) Well I see you continue to rely upon your tactic of resorting to personal insults when your case is weak.
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Wrong again (seriously are you ever right on anything you ever say here?). I destroy you and then make fun of your lack of intelligence/vision/etc.

But no, letting the charge rise to a pitch and then revealing Harry Reid as having talked out his butthole does indeed make him look like an ass-clown.
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Still don't get it do you (even when it's damn obvious)? Harry Reid doesn't give a **** if he's proven wrong if it gets Mittens to reveal the real dirty secrets in his tax return. Hell, if Reid gets him to reveal that Romney took part in the UBS scandal (you should google that to bring yourself up to my speed) and undertook the voluntary disclosure process, holy hell that's damning. No one will care that Reid got it wrong about not paying taxes if something like that hits the fan. Reid is fishing for the big skeletons and the claim of not paying taxes is his lure. This is exactly why I suspect Romney is not taking the bait. He'd rather have people think he didn't pay taxes then reveal something really juicy.

However, as I pointed out, the negative to that may indeed outweigh that happy result - we hear distortions, falsehoods, and baseless implications about them for the rest of the campaign. And Americans already know that Romney had overseas accounts; I'm not so sure that another confirmation of that will make the impact that you are thinking it will.
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Depends on what assets accounts he had, where they where and who they were with and if they were involved in any scandals. Like I said, getting caught in the UBS would be damning. Having a small one in the UK not doing anything wouldn't cause a mess. Having a deposit account in HK wouldn't cause a mess. Having a son of boss funneling account in the Caymans will fall somewhere in between.
 
cpwill said:
:) Well I see you continue to rely upon your tactic of resorting to personal insults when your case is weak.


But no, letting the charge rise to a pitch and then revealing Harry Reid as having talked out his butthole does indeed make him look like an ass-clown. However, as I pointed out, the negative to that may indeed outweigh that happy result - we hear distortions, falsehoods, and baseless implications about them for the rest of the campaign. And Americans already know that Romney had overseas accounts; I'm not so sure that another confirmation of that will make the impact that you are thinking it will.
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CPwill....why wont you address and answer the question....Why wont romney just release his financials ? if in fact he has nothing to hide, its so simple. You and I both know why he cant...if he did it would expose upfront and personal to all of America that the far right has raped the united states. It would show that all they espouse is just NOT TRUE .
Since ive been on this site you have repeatedly ad nausem blamed Entitlements...Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid for all the countries financial WOES...you have never once mentioned the millions that have been put out of work and put on food stamps and medicaid by YOUR RICH BUDDIES outsourcing millions of jobs to china and putting these americans out of work.
You have displayed blatant outright contempt and even loathing for the largest generation of americans the babyboomers and you outright denigrated them and blamed THEM for all the countries woes....
You never even UTTER ONE MENTION of all the corporations and big banks caught STEALING FROM THE AMERICAN PEOPLE...caught in all fashions of illegal activivities and get away with it...Like the far rights HERO Jamie dimond ceo of the very criminal Stanley Morgan...in one swipe they stole billions.
Your harping that the middle class and below dont pay enough...get to much from the rich...while the rich just take it all...have gotten fabulously richer make more than ever...PAY less taxs than ever....millions out of work...no jobs to be had they were all outsourced...and you STILL BLAME everyone but the rich that did it all....CPWill I will not call you dishonest...but I absolutely do not understand your motivation...because your an extremely intelligent man..and I truly believe you know that what you spout is just not the truth....I really believe that marine
 
lpast said:
CPwill....why wont you address and answer the question
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As much as I hold Cpwill in utter and compete contempt at all times, you got a bunch of things wrong here.

Why wont romney just release his financials ? if in fact he has nothing to hide, its so simple. You and I both know why he cant...if he did it would expose upfront and personal to all of America that the far right has raped the united states. It would show that all they espouse is just NOT TRUE.
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Uh, the far right and the far left don't seem to care about paying their share when it comes to tax evasion. The UBS and KMPG tax shelters got people from all political leans. They just all happened to be filthy rich. Tax shelters appeal to everyone who values paying as little taxes as possible: and that includes some on the far left as well.

If you want to attack the right on "raping the United States" hit them on enviromental stances. Not on tax issues. Well, until the Abomination known as the Ryan Plan which Cpwill has nothing but praise for is passed into law.

Since ive been on this site you have repeatedly ad nausem blamed Entitlements...Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid for all the countries financial WOES...you have never once mentioned the millions that have been put out of work and put on food stamps and medicaid by YOUR RICH BUDDIES outsourcing millions of jobs to china and putting these americans out of work.
You have displayed blatant outright contempt and even loathing for the largest generation of americans the babyboomers and you outright denigrated them and blamed THEM for all the countries woes.
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That's largely because Cpwill does not understand economics. First of all, many outsourced jobs were dead men walking in the first place. If US companies hadn't done it then their compeitors would have created jobs in cheaper places and simply run US firms out of business. Those jobs were going anyways regardless. While millions have been put out of work and on food stamps, it wasn't primarily by outsourcing. That you can trace back to the GOP and Clinton, yes, Clinton, who signed the repeal of the Glass-Stegall Act which is partially to blame for the near financial collapse we had. Furthermore, the massive push for ownership under the GOP along with banks essentially abandoning proper banking procedures is at the root of the housing issue. No one really has a good plan for this. Obama and Romney are essentially clueless on that. And Cpwill is somewhat right in the boomers, but not how he thinks. The boomers will put a massive strain on the economy in the future and their near wholesale failure to save for retirement is going to demolish consumer spending as their children have to pay for many of their costs. The average retiree has something like $30k saved for retirement. That's not even 1 week in ICU. Much less potentially 30 years of retirement. We're going the way of China in terms of domestic spending. And that is not a good thing.

You never even UTTER ONE MENTION of all the corporations and big banks caught STEALING FROM THE AMERICAN PEOPLE...caught in all fashions of illegal activivities and get away with it...Like the far rights HERO Jamie dimond ceo of the very criminal Stanley Morgan...in one swipe they stole billions.
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Mr. Diamond did not steal money. JP Morgan's hedging operation designed to offset the risk in other divisions made a rookie error by placing large numbers of hedges in a way that massively increased risk. What is disturbing here is that the division designed to reduce risk increased it. There is NO THEFT here. Just idiotic iBankers. Granted, this looks REALLY BAD for their claim they need less regulation, but you are not right here in that they are stealing from the American people. If anything, they just screwed over their investors.

Your harping that the middle class and below dont pay enough...get to much from the rich...while the rich just take it all...have gotten fabulously richer make more than ever...PAY less taxs than ever....millions out of work...no jobs to be had they were all outsourced...and you STILL BLAME everyone but the rich that did it all....CPWill I will not call you dishonest...but I absolutely do not understand your motivation...because your an extremely intelligent man..and I truly believe you know that what you spout is just not the truth....I really believe that marine
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I have no problem calling him dishonest. Because he is. Cpwill's problem is that he's way too invested in his positions to even consider he's wrong. He does not entertain the notion of opposing beliefs. Ever.

But you are right that the rich are paying the lowest amount they've paid in years. Actually every one is. Thanks to the GOP and to the spineless Democrats. The US has one of the lowest effective marginal effective rates in the developed world. Our deficit and debt problem is a function of both revenue and spending. Spending went up, revenue went down.
 
cpwill said:
No. Reid looks like an ass-clown, and we spend the rest of the campaign listening to the Obama camp pull out and distort random details from Mitt Romney's records from 4-8 years ago.
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Yup. Then the liberals don't have to talk about the Obama Presidential Record of Accomplishments.

All slight of hand.
 
I generally don't like negative ads. I am waiting for Obama ads that do discuss what he's running on--good old-fashioned ads that say, "Vote for me because...."
 
nota bene said:
I generally don't like negative ads. I am waiting for Obama ads that do discuss what he's running on--good old-fashioned ads that say, "Vote for me because...."
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There's a reason you haven't seen much of that, and why the Obama supporters here at DP concentrate on destroying Romney rather than touting their guy.
 
nota bene said:
I generally don't like negative ads. I am waiting for Obama ads that do discuss what he's running on--good old-fashioned ads that say, "Vote for me because...."
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Totally agree . . . .
 
lpast said:
Cmon everyone this isnt rocket science...If releasing his financials would "HELP" romeny get elected he would have released them and used them in campaign ads from day one. The truth is and WE ALL KNOW ITS TRUE is that he has not paid anywhere near his fair share...People are sick and tired of reading CEO gets 100,000,000 bonus OH and the company is being investigated for stealing two billion....CEO gets big bonus and stock options and MultiMillion Buyout from FAILED GOVT BAILED OUT COMPANY.....were tired of it...its been all a lie fabricated by all the haves.
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lpast said:
Your right "BY LAW" and within the law he can slither and snake and pay hardly anything, the point isnt about whether its legal or not...its about whether it will get him ELECTED and it will NOT...and if the real truth of how little the rich truly have been paying all along because of these LEGAL loopholes became in your face known by the american people the party would be over...
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Wow, lpast, you've fallen for it hook, line and sinker. "It" being the latest Democratic smear on the rich.

First, define "fair share." Next, answer why he isn't in jail for tax evasion. After that, tell me how much extra income tax you send the government every year. Then tell me how much money you donate to charity as a percentage of your income.

When you've pulled all of that information together, tell me who writes the IRS's slithering snakey rules and regulations that allows slithery snakes to legally avoid income taxes. (Hint: That would be the Congress of the United States of America.) Then tell me who hasn't closed these slithery snakey rules. (Hint: That would be the Congress of the United States of America.) Then postulate why Congress hasn't passed a law making it mandatory that candidates for the presidency to divulge a prerequisite number of years of tax returns to the American people as soon as they begin their run for nomination. (I have my ideas; surely you can come up with a few.)

Oh, and how 'bout telling me what's wrong with offshore accounts. Everyone is asked on their income tax forms whether or not they have one. And tell me why we haven't negotiated reciprocal tax agreements with these tiny foreign nations.

The legal right of a taxpayer to decrease the amount of what otherwise would be his taxes, or altogether avoid them, by means which the law permits, cannot be doubted. (U.S. Supreme Court Justice Sutherland, Gregory vs. Helvering, 293 U.S. 465, 1965)
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Over and over again courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging one's affairs so as to make taxes as low as possible. Everybody does so, rich or poor, and do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more taxes than the law demands. Taxes are enforced exactions, not voluntary contributions. ( Justice Learned Hand, U.S. Supreme Court )
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There are two systems of taxation in our country: one for the informed, and one for he uninformed. (Judge Leonard Hand, U.S. Supreme Court) (Maggie says: Why is that? What magical body has arranged for this to be the case? Oh!! That would be Congress!"
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It is just as immoral for the government to grant exemptions as it is for the citizens to hide their income. (Charles Adams)
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As of 2010, the IRS tax code contained over 11,000 pages. In 2001, an independent researcher put number of words at 2.1 million (triple that of 1975). The original tax code had 11,400 words!

Has the Democratic Party used this Romney fiasco as a stepping stone to simplifying our tax code? Getting ride of these so-called loopholes that allow the richest among us to manipulate its onerous rules and regs? Have they hammered home the absolute need for tax reform? Nope. Narry a peep. Why is that?

Romney made a big mistake. If he wasn't willing to disclose ten years' taxes, he should never have run for the office of the presidency. He can hardly release them now. As we have the POT calling the KETTLE black.

You're angry at the wrong people. Blame Congress.
 
MaggieD said:
Wow, lpast, you've fallen for it hook, line and sinker. "It" being the latest Democratic smear on the rich.

First, define "fair share." Next, answer why he isn't in jail for tax evasion. After that, tell me how much extra income tax you send the government every year. Then tell me how much money you donate to charity as a percentage of your income.

When you've pulled all of that information together, tell me who writes the IRS's slithering snakey rules and regulations that allows slithery snakes to legally avoid income taxes. (Hint: That would be the Congress of the United States of America.) Then tell me who hasn't closed these slithery snakey rules. (Hint: That would be the Congress of the United States of America.) Then postulate why Congress hasn't passed a law making it mandatory that candidates for the presidency to divulge a prerequisite number of years of tax returns to the American people as soon as they begin their run for nomination. (I have my ideas; surely you can come up with a few.)

Oh, and how 'bout telling me what's wrong with offshore accounts. Everyone is asked on their income tax forms whether or not they have one. And tell me why we haven't negotiated reciprocal tax agreements with these tiny foreign nations.









As of 2010, the IRS tax code contained over 11,000 pages. In 2001, an independent researcher put number of words at 2.1 million (triple that of 1975). The original tax code had 11,400 words!

Has the Democratic Party used this Romney fiasco as a stepping stone to simplifying our tax code? Getting ride of these so-called loopholes that allow the richest among us to manipulate its onerous rules and regs? Have they hammered home the absolute need for tax reform? Nope. Narry a peep. Why is that?

Romney made a big mistake. If he wasn't willing to disclose ten years' taxes, he should never have run for the office of the presidency. He can hardly release them now. As we have the POT calling the KETTLE black.

You're angry at the wrong people. Blame Congress.
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Well the IRS code is so complicated because it favours the rich and gives them massive tax cuts and deductions. And who pays for the politicians who wrote the tax code.. oh yea the rich.

Problem is you will never fix the tax code because the people you elect to congress are so dependent on the funding from the very people the tax code is written for.. the 1%.

I mean could you really see Ryan and Romney re-write the tax code so that they would pay more in taxes than they do now? After all the nr. 1 thing that should be gutted in the tax code are deductions and capital gains tax.... which aint gonna happen since that is what Romney only pays. Shock and horror that Romney and his 1% palls suddenly have to pay the same tax rate as random American earning say 75k..... it aint gonna happen under the GOP and even under the dems..
 
lpast said:
Your right "BY LAW" and within the law he can slither and snake and pay hardly anything, the point isnt about whether its legal or not...its about whether it will get him ELECTED and it will NOT...and if the real truth of how little the rich truly have been paying all along because of these LEGAL loopholes became in your face known by the american people the party would be over...The very rich know that and thats why Romney cannot release and stick his financials in Americas Face...legal has nothing to do with it...no one denies he did it legally...its legally DISGUSTING is what it is.
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You honestly think almost every American is not aware of tax havens and tax loopholes and that the rich often pay very little taxes? I severely doubt it.

But even if they did - it's not Romney's fault the tax laws are what they are.

So to say that he will lose the election strictly because he followed existing tax laws is, in my opinion, wrong.

I have a little more faith then you do that American voters are not going to condemn the better candidate (in their opinion) strictly because he tried to save money by following tax laws.

If he broke the law? Okay.

But if he didn't, then he did nothing wrong - morally or otherwise (in this instance).

There is NOTHING immoral about utilizing pre-existing legal tax loopholes.
 
PeteEU said:
Well the IRS code is so complicated because it favours the rich and gives them massive tax cuts and deductions. And who pays for the politicians who wrote the tax code.. oh yea the rich.

Problem is you will never fix the tax code because the people you elect to congress are so dependent on the funding from the very people the tax code is written for.. the 1%.

I mean could you really see Ryan and Romney re-write the tax code so that they would pay more in taxes than they do now? After all the nr. 1 thing that should be gutted in the tax code are deductions and capital gains tax.... which aint gonna happen since that is what Romney only pays. Shock and horror that Romney and his 1% palls suddenly have to pay the same tax rate as random American earning say 75k..... it aint gonna happen under the GOP and even under the dems..
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I'm glad you at least added the underlined part. Obama had plenty of time - TWO YEARS - to reform the income tax code. It didn't even make his list. Wonder why.
 
danarhea said:
The left is now pouring it on the Romney campaign, over his taxes, and claim they now know who Harry Reid's "deep throat" is.... John Huntsman Sr, according to New York magazine. However, although Reid may have told the truth about having an insider saying that Romney didn't pay taxes, he may still be wrong. And if his source was indeed John Huntsman Sr, it is a very dicey source at best, because, as it turns out, there is bad blood between Romney and Huntsman Sr.

Huntsman wanted his son, John Huntsman Jr, to head the Salt Lake Olympics, which led to a huge rift within the selection committee itself. The bad blood stems from the decision to elect Romney instead of Huntsman Jr.

So was Harry Reid telling the truth? Probably. Was Harry Reid being ethical? Hell no. Using a source that has a grudge against your target is generally not going to yield the truth, but will generally lend a perception of bias and hackery. Harry Reid has gone out on a limb in using Huntsman Sr to back his claim, and if he is not careful, this could blow up in his face in a big way. And, if Romney did indeed pay his taxes instead of using loopholes, this is probably exactly what he wants. As I said before, Romney didn't get to where he is now without some cold hard calculations, and Romney is someone who uses calculated logic in every move he plans.

So, is Reid about to rat**** the Democrats in 2012? There is one way to find out. Release your taxes, Mitt, and lets put all this speculation to an end.
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Interesting backstory. I was thinking that Reid was pulling a bluff accusation knowing it probably wasn't true but would force the hand of the Romney campaign to put out his taxes from several years before because it is likely that it would expose lots and lots more of news-worthy embarrassments of more off-shore tax shelters and such... which I still contend is probably why Romney is fighting this tooth and nail. I mean... why else would McCain pick an unknown Palin over a known Romney as veep last time after McCain had seen 20 years of Romney's tax returns?
 
PeteEU said:
Well the IRS code is so complicated because it favours the rich and gives them massive tax cuts and deductions. And who pays for the politicians who wrote the tax code.. oh yea the rich.

Problem is you will never fix the tax code because the people you elect to congress are so dependent on the funding from the very people the tax code is written for.. the 1%.

I mean could you really see Ryan and Romney re-write the tax code so that they would pay more in taxes than they do now? After all the nr. 1 thing that should be gutted in the tax code are deductions and capital gains tax.... which aint gonna happen since that is what Romney only pays. Shock and horror that Romney and his 1% palls suddenly have to pay the same tax rate as random American earning say 75k..... it aint gonna happen under the GOP and even under the dems..
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Hoe does it favor the rich more than anyone else? Rich folks can't qualify for the earned income redit In fact, rich don't qualify for as many breaks, credits and deductions because they make too much money. People should learn more about the tax code before making factual claims and criticisms of it.
 
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