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Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich[W:13]

teamosil

teamosil

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The Tax Policy Center did an exhaustive analysis of Romney's tax plan. Romney has intentionally avoided giving many details at all, but he has given enough that they have been able to calculate what the overall effect would be on various income levels. What they found:

romneytax.jpg

Everyone making more than $200k/year will pay less under the Romney plan, and the average person in the top 0.1% will pay $246,652 less under Romney's plan. In order to keep it revenue neutral, as he promised to do, he will raise the taxes on everybody making less than $200k/year. For example, a person making $90,000 a year will pay $1,880 more in taxes per year under the Romney tax plan. Everybody making under $200k will see their post-tax income fall an average of 1.2% and everybody making over $1 million will see their post-tax income rise an average of 4.2%.

The entire study is here- http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/1001628-Base-Broadening-Tax-Reform.pdf

Some more articles on it:

Romney Anti-Tax-Wonk Jihad Continues -- Daily Intel
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/02/u...e-plan-would-tax-lower-income-households.html
Romney’s regressive tax plan - Salon.com
Political Animal - Any Way You Slice It, Romney’s Tax Plan Is Regressive
 
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Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

Same tired ****, same tired **** sources.
 
Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

OpportunityCost said:
Same tired ****, same tired **** sources.
Click to expand...

Same failure to counter those sources and arguments.
 
Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

Redress said:
Same failure to counter those sources and arguments.
Click to expand...

jesus jumping christ.

Page 2 of the PDF
We do not score Governor Romney’s plan directly, as certain components of his plan are not specified in sufficient detail, nor do we make assumptions regarding what those components might be.)
Click to expand...

Next paragraph (incoming crap ton of assumptions! )

Our major conclusion is that a revenue-neutral individual income tax change that incorporates the features Governor Romney has proposed – including reducing marginal tax rates substantially, eliminating the individual alternative minimum tax (AMT) and maintaining all tax breaks for saving and investment – would provide large tax cuts to high-income households, and increase the tax burdens on middle- and/or lower-income taxpayers. This is true even when we bias our assumptions about which and whose tax expenditures are reduced to make the resulting tax system as progressive as possible. For instance, even when we assume that tax breaks – like the charitable deduction, mortgage interest deduction, and the exclusion for health insurance – are completely eliminated for higher-income households first, and only then reduced as necessary for other households to achieve overall revenue-neutrality– the net effect of the plan would be a tax cut for high-income households coupled with a tax increase for middle-income households.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

OpportunityCost said:
jesus jumping christ.

Page 2 of the PDF


Next paragraph (incoming crap ton of assumptions! )
Click to expand...

Jesus jumping christ, that does not refute the study. That says that Romney's plan is vague, so they have to fill in blanks, and that in every way they do so, the program does not add up.
 
Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

OpportunityCost said:
jesus jumping christ.

Page 2 of the PDF

Next paragraph (incoming crap ton of assumptions! )
Click to expand...

Yup, that's right. They couldn't include all the details in their review of it that they usually do because Romney won't say what his plan is. But he did say enough that they can make the conclusions they did with certainty. It's actually just pretty simple math.

Read that paragraph you quoted more carefully. It is weird that you quoted that one to support your conclusion. It destroys your conclusion. It is saying that even if they make assumptions that he would fill in all the blanks in his tax plan with the most progressive choices possible (which is obviously highly unlikely) still then, you get these numbers. In reality, he probably would not have a sudden change of heart and start supporting progressive taxation on the other things, so the numbers would actually be much worse than what is in this report. These numbers are what they get if they make every assumption in Romney's favor.
 
Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

Redress said:
Same failure to counter those sources and arguments.
Click to expand...

And no opposition to Obama raising taxes on everyone. Hmmm!
 
Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

teamosil said:
The Tax Policy Center did an exhaustive analysis of Romney's tax plan. Romney has intentionally avoided giving many details at all, but he has given enough that they have been able to calculate what the overall effect would be on various income levels. What they found:

View attachment 67132288

Everyone making more than $200k/year will pay less under the Romney plan, and the average person in the top 0.1% will pay $246,652 less under Romney's plan. In order to keep it revenue neutral, as he promised to do, he will raise the taxes on everybody making less than $200k/year. For example, a person making $90,000 a year will pay $1,880 more in taxes per year under the Romney tax plan. Everybody making under $200k will see their post-tax income fall an average of 1.2% and everybody making over $1 million will see their post-tax income rise an average of 4.2%.

The entire study is here- http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/1001628-Base-Broadening-Tax-Reform.pdf

Some more articles on it:

Romney Anti-Tax-Wonk Jihad Continues -- Daily Intel
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/02/u...e-plan-would-tax-lower-income-households.html
Romney’s regressive tax plan - Salon.com
Political Animal - Any Way You Slice It, Romney’s Tax Plan Is Regressive
Click to expand...

If you want trickle down economics to work, you need to let the wealthiest Americans get more in tax breaks.

Otherwise we can't continue creating jobs.
 
Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

johnny_rebson said:
If you want trickle down economics to work, you need to let the wealthiest Americans get more in tax breaks.

Otherwise we can't continue creating jobs.
Click to expand...

Not sure if serious.
 
Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

johnny_rebson said:
If you want trickle down economics to work, you need to let the wealthiest Americans get more in tax breaks.

Otherwise we can't continue creating jobs.
Click to expand...

I want my broom to fly me to Miami. But no matter how much I hope and wish and cross my fingers and light some votive candles I cannot make work what simply does not work. The same applies to your fantasy.
 
Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

haymarket said:
I want my broom to fly me to Miami. But no matter how much I hope and wish and cross my fingers and light some votive candles I cannot make work what simply does not work. The same applies to your fantasy.
Click to expand...

I think the guy might be a POE Haymarket. but we all know jacking up the taxes on the rich is only advocated to appeal to the have nots and to allow dem politicians to claim that such tax hikes now allow those politicians to spend even more money buying votes
 
Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

Redress said:
Jesus jumping christ, that does not refute the study. That says that Romney's plan is vague, so they have to fill in blanks, and that in every way they do so, the program does not add up.
Click to expand...
There is a difference between saying that 'the program does not add up' and 'filling in the blanks' in such a way that fits the author of the studys agenda.

The Romney plan does not raise taxes on the middle class. The authors of the study raise taxes on the middle class.
 
Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

Moderator's Warning:
Talk about the topic and not each other. 90 days till election, and you guys are responsible for every gray hair I get between now and then.
 
Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

Fletch said:
There is a difference between saying that 'the program does not add up' and 'filling in the blanks' in such a way that fits the author of the studys agenda.

The Romney plan does not raise taxes on the middle class. The authors of the study raise taxes on the middle class.
Click to expand...

No, exactly the opposite. They filled in all the blanks in ways that would make his proposal LESS progressive. For example, assuming that when he talks about eliminating deductions to balance revenues, he would give exemptions for the middle class for charitable donations, but that he would not exempt the rich. They are bending it as far as they can in Romney's favor and still getting those numbers. Read it before you dismiss it out of hand.
 
Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

Fletch said:
There is a difference between saying that 'the program does not add up' and 'filling in the blanks' in such a way that fits the author of the studys agenda.
Click to expand...

Which author, the liberal, or the conservative that Romney praised earlier this year?

The Romney plan does not raise taxes on the middle class. The authors of the study raise taxes on the middle class.
Click to expand...

To do everything Romney claimed, the plan has to raise taxes on the middle class.
 
Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

Redress said:
Which author, the liberal, or the conservative that Romney praised earlier this year?



To do everything Romney claimed, the plan has to raise taxes on the middle class.
Click to expand...
Or, it just cant do what Romney claimed. Again, if the numbers dont add up, then the numbers dont add up. It would hardly be the first plan to fail in that regard. But you cant make the claim that Romney raises taxes on the middle class because that is not in the plan, nor is it his intention. The authors reached that conclusion on their own.
 
Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

Fletch said:
Or, it just cant do what Romney claimed. Again, if the numbers dont add up, then the numbers dont add up. It would hardly be the first plan to fail in that regard. But you cant make the claim that Romney raises taxes on the middle class because that is not in the plan, nor is it his intention. The authors reached that conclusion on their own.
Click to expand...

That is the only possible conclusion UNLESS Romney is lying about his plan being revenue neutral and not jacking up the debt. So pick your poison: in order to give the wealthy a massive tax cut, Romney will either raise middle class taxes or he will jack up the debt, or some combination of the two.
 
Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

Fletch said:
Or, it just cant do what Romney claimed. Again, if the numbers dont add up, then the numbers dont add up. It would hardly be the first plan to fail in that regard. But you cant make the claim that Romney raises taxes on the middle class because that is not in the plan, nor is it his intention. The authors reached that conclusion on their own.
Click to expand...

Yeah, AdamT is right. His tax plan will do one or the other- raise the deficit or raise taxes on the middle class.

But if nobody ran the numbers of a presidential candidate's tax plan should not make you feel better about that situation, it should make you dumbstruck by how badly the GOP screwed up by picking this idiot for their candidate on top of being dismayed that he will either raise taxes on the middle class or raise the deficit.
 
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Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

teamosil said:
Yeah, AdamT is right. His tax plan will do one or the other- raise the deficit or raise taxes on the middle class.

But if nobody ran the numbers of a presidential candidate's tax plan should not make you feel better about that situation, it should make you dumbstruck by how badly the GOP screwed up by picking this idiot for their candidate on top of being dismayed that he will either raise taxes on the middle class or raise the deficit.
Click to expand...

Obama's tax plan has one purpose-get Obama reelected by pandering to class envy

the weak minded will think raising taxes on the rich alone will pay down the deficit meaning they can get more government spending directed their way.

until the middle class understand that its their demands for more government that has created the deficit, we will never be able to tax away the deficit
 
Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

Redress said:
Same failure to counter those sources and arguments.
Click to expand...

OK try this. Since this group can't know which deductions will be proposed to pay for this, hard to see how this is credible.

It would be fair to say we want more details because we can't calculate. But this seems more campaign BS than a serious study.
 
Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

TurtleDude said:
Obama's tax plan has one purpose-get Obama reelected by pandering to class envy

the weak minded will think raising taxes on the rich alone will pay down the deficit meaning they can get more government spending directed their way.

until the middle class understand that its their demands for more government that has created the deficit, we will never be able to tax away the deficit
Click to expand...

The weak minded think that the only part of Obama's plan to bring down the deficit is tax hikes. See how that works?
 
Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

teamosil said:
The Tax Policy Center did an exhaustive analysis of Romney's tax plan. Romney has intentionally avoided giving many details at all...
Click to expand...

It is impossible to do an "exhaustive analysis", on something which there are not "many details" of...

He is wise no to do so... It's not a good strategy to say where cuts will come from in an election year... Also without knowledge of their passing the legislature, or its make up, which will hinge on this election, it's not wise to say what specifics you'll pursue...

What we know for sure is that Obama will not do anything, he simply can't... he cannot pass a single item of legislature at the moment (so he is running for four more years of lame duck inability)... meaning the Bush Tax Cuts will expire...

Fate of Bush Tax Cuts Uncertain As Expiration Approaches | Tax Foundation

So the brackets will do this if Obama is re-elected...

10% ---> 15% (+5%, a 50% increase) <----- that's the bottom he wants to build up...
15% ---> 15% (no change)
15% ---> 25% (+10%, a 66.66% increase) <----- that's the middle class Obama says he is looking out for...
25% ---> 28% (+3%, a 12% increase)
28% ---> 31% (+3%, a 10.7% increase)
33% ---> 36% (+3%, a 9.09% increase)
35% ---> 39.6% (+4.6%, a 13% increase) <----- that's the top bracket Obama claims should pay more...

Who is that going to effect the worst?

- The Poor (except a select few who will remain at 15%)
- The Middle Class
 
Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

Redress said:
The weak minded think that the only part of Obama's plan to bring down the deficit is tax hikes. See how that works?
Click to expand...

True, he also wants to cut defense spending. He has not materially addressed social security and medicare. Those are the two areas that will swamp our economy.

We need someone to have the political courage to lead the country and come up with answers to these two huge problems. Seems like neither candidate is willing to step up and come up with real solutions.
 
Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

IndepCentristMA said:
It is impossible to do an "exhaustive analysis", on something which there are not "many details" of...

He is wise no to do so... It's not a good strategy to say where cuts will come from in an election year... Also without knowledge of their passing the legislature, or its make up, which will hinge on this election, it's not wise to say what specifics you'll pursue...
Click to expand...

Why would anybody vote for a presidential candidate who won't even say what he plans to do to the country? Especially when what he is saying is- raise taxes on the middle class and lower them on the rich?

IndepCentristMA said:
What we know for sure is that Obama will not do anything, he simply can't... he cannot pass a single item of legislature at the moment (so he is running for four more years of lame duck inability)... meaning the Bush Tax Cuts will expire...

Fate of Bush Tax Cuts Uncertain As Expiration Approaches | Tax Foundation

So the brackets will do this if Obama is re-elected...

10% ---> 15% (+5%, a 50% increase) <----- that's the bottom he wants to build up...
15% ---> 15% (no change)
15% ---> 25% (+10%, a 66.66% increase) <----- that's the middle class Obama says he is looking out for...
25% ---> 28% (+3%, a 12% increase)
28% ---> 31% (+3%, a 10.7% increase)
33% ---> 36% (+3%, a 9.09% increase)
35% ---> 39.6% (+4.6%, a 13% increase) <----- that's the top bracket Obama claims should pay more...

Who is that going to effect the worst?

- The Poor (except a select few who will remain at 15%)
- The Middle Class
Click to expand...

The Democrats are fighting to extend the tax cuts for the middle class. The House Republicans blocked it in retaliation for not extending them for the rich. So to try to pin that on the Democrats is absurd. But, in order to extend them for the rich, Republicans would need to take the senate too. They could extend them for the middle class at any time of course.

Also, remember that the poor, and even much of the middle class, pays no federal income taxes other than FICA because of deductions- which Romney says he wants to get rid of. So their taxes would go up were he elected even if he somehow managed to extend the Bush tax cuts, their taxes would still go up because he is killing their deductions. And, remember that the Republicans oppose the payroll tax cut. So that would pile on even more taxes to the poor and middle class if they got control of both houses.
 
Re: Romney's tax plan- raise taxes on the middle class, cut them for the rich

washunut said:
True, he also wants to cut defense spending. He has not materially addressed social security and medicare. Those are the two areas that will swamp our economy.

We need someone to have the political courage to lead the country and come up with answers to these two huge problems. Seems like neither candidate is willing to step up and come up with real solutions.
Click to expand...

The only way to solve the deficit is to attack it on all three fronts- domestic spending, military spending and revenues. Revenues amount to getting the money from the rich. Cutting domestic spending amounts to getting the money from the middle class. Cutting military spending is just cutting military spending. Hands down, the least damaging options are taxing the rich and cutting the military. Democrats understand that. But, the Democrats absolutely have been willing to attack it on all three fronts as a compromise. They put forward tons and tons of different proposals to do that. But the Republicans blocked each one because they are unwilling to cut military spending or to raise taxes. They will only accept taking 100% of the deficit out of the middle class, and that just is not morally acceptable.
 
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