Romney's finances beyond murky[W:117]

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

Zyphlin said:

But instead it's Romney's fiances so you're doing your Glenn Beck impersonation of "ASKING QUESTIONS" instead. I love how you chastise how the "right wing conspiracy machine" would be "Spinning this" while you're sitting here trying to make a big load of hay over it suggesting that the guy needs to "Come clean" which inherently is implying there's something dirty occuring. The laughable audacity of the hypocrisy of your last line is hillarious.

You and Travis can go in your little hyper partisan corner and batter around this crap. For myself, I'd rather focus on views regarding various issues, plans to fix those issues, and general trust in terms of governance not personal finances or personal educational endevours or personal relationships or 50 year old history or other **** that the LCD of the political spectrum has been attempting to stir up as the focus for this campaign on both sides.

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I agree... my POV is that Obama MUST GO.. period..Id vote for anyone but Obama... again ANYONE... nobody can be worse.. its impossible

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

Zyphlin said:

But instead it's Romney's fiances so you're doing your Glenn Beck impersonation of "ASKING QUESTIONS" instead. I love how you chastise how the "right wing conspiracy machine" would be "Spinning this" while you're sitting here trying to make a big load of hay over it suggesting that the guy needs to "Come clean" which inherently is implying there's something dirty occuring. The laughable audacity of the hypocrisy of your last line is hillarious.

You and Travis can go in your little hyper partisan corner and batter around this crap. For myself, I'd rather focus on views regarding various issues, plans to fix those issues, and general trust in terms of governance not personal finances or personal educational endevours or personal relationships or 50 year old history or other **** that the LCD of the political spectrum has been attempting to stir up as the focus for this campaign on both sides.

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Well, I'm not it there with your runnin' buddy, Travis, Zyph. Personally I think think that too much can be made of a candidate's personal matters, and character issues but in this case Romney's finances raise multiple red flags and I don't think it's over the top to suggest that he should be more forthcoming. He's running for POTUS -- not dog catcher. How about releasing some more years' returns? As Mitts' own father said, you can't get a full picture by examining one return -- particularly as it's not hard to tailor one year knowing that you may have to make it public.

At the very least there is something very suspicious about his IRA accounts, indicating possible law/rules violations. The man is running on his financial genius and Bain experience. So tell us about it.

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

Zyphlin said:

But instead it's Romney's fiances so you're doing your Glenn Beck impersonation of "ASKING QUESTIONS" instead. I love how you chastise how the "right wing conspiracy machine" would be "Spinning this" while you're sitting here trying to make a big load of hay over it suggesting that the guy needs to "Come clean" which inherently is implying there's something dirty occuring. The laughable audacity of the hypocrisy of your last line is hillarious.

You and Travis can go in your little hyper partisan corner and batter around this crap. For myself, I'd rather focus on views regarding various issues, plans to fix those issues, and general trust in terms of governance not personal finances or personal educational endevours or personal relationships or 50 year old history or other **** that the LCD of the political spectrum has been attempting to stir up as the focus for this campaign on both sides.

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Interesting, Romney is running on his business expertise, but when it comes to his personal business, his financial activity, you give him a pass.....because this is "personal".

It is obvious why he closed his Swiss accounts just before he filed to run for president in this cycle, it is all about what it represents to US voters. The problem is that he didn't close the Cayman accounts at the same time. The question is, why does he have these accounts in the first place and why, if there is no problem with having them, would he choose to close any of them?

His father released 12 years of returns, he has released only one, showing his minimal rate of taxation. I am willing to bet that that was the best looking return his campaign could come up with.

The more his finances are revealed, the more we will see that he is representative of the oligarchy behind him.

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

Zyphlin, I can agree with much of what you write but I have a question about one little bit of your post #46

You wrote

general trust in terms of governance not personal finances

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in regard to the questions being raised about Mitt's offshore accounts. Now having benefited personally in the past from such accounts, I think I can speak with a little authority on the matter. When you have the money and the income, you use attorneys with specialised knowledge that will allow you to save absolutely as much of that money as you can. You use the attorneys because they can provide legal justification for what in some eyes might be seen as if not illegal, at least unethical. I changed my mind when a brother-in-law became involved in investigating Swiss bank accounts, sometimes the government attorneys have better arguments to lay before a court.

The problem for Mitt is the not so small fact that he is running for the Presidency of the United States. A lot of people, and the Obama campaign is ensuring that lots of people will hear about them, will automatically assume that offshore accounts imply illegal activities, whether that is true or not. Why should Americans vote for a man who refuses to help pay for the nation's neeeds? The fact that Mitt is paying his income tax at a rate of 13.9% would also cause some people to wonder about his ethics... If he love this country so much why isn't he more open about his finances, why is he putting money into other nation's banks, why is he seemingly willing to finance businesses outside the US but not in the US? If he loves this nation so much, why ... ?

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

Zyphlin said:

But instead it's Romney's fiances so you're doing your Glenn Beck impersonation of "ASKING QUESTIONS" instead. I love how you chastise how the "right wing conspiracy machine" would be "Spinning this" while you're sitting here trying to make a big load of hay over it suggesting that the guy needs to "Come clean" which inherently is implying there's something dirty occuring. The laughable audacity of the hypocrisy of your last line is hillarious.

You and Travis can go in your little hyper partisan corner and batter around this crap. For myself, I'd rather focus on views regarding various issues, plans to fix those issues, and general trust in terms of governance not personal finances or personal educational endevours or personal relationships or 50 year old history or other **** that the LCD of the political spectrum has been attempting to stir up as the focus for this campaign on both sides.

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But this is a relevant topic. How can Romney claim that job creators are under undo duress, and thus should not have taxes raised on them, when they've been avoiding paying their share of taxes to begin with? How can he claim to understand the 99% of the US when he's never had to deal with paying his fair share solely because he's rich enough to avoid it... which he's been doing his whole life?

This is about seeing what's necessary to improve the country. If your only view is with 1% of the country, how can you help the remaining 99%?

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

Travis007 said:

I agree... my POV is that Obama MUST GO.. period..Id vote for anyone but Obama... again ANYONE... nobody can be worse.. its impossible

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Your actions say you don't agree, because you're been harping on stupid **** since you've come to the forum. On the contrary, your second part of your post shows the truth far more than the statement of "you agree". You DON'T agree with what I said...you simply care to throw out every idiotic, stupid, non-sensical, over exaggerated, hyper partisan, ridiculous, pointless bull**** you can find about Obama because you're obsessed with him having to "GO" not with any kind of honest discussion, debate, objectivity, honest thought, or anything of the sort. You, much like Adam in this case, operate singularly and entirely due to political pandering and shilling, not because of any kind of objective honest reasoning or thought. What helps your side and what hurts the other is objective #1, 2, and 3 on people like you all's list of "top 3 things to care about regarding discussing politics".

AdamT dresses it up in prettier words and presents it in a less over the top method than you, but the two of you are mirror images all the same. This **** is nothing but political theater and worthless attempts to distract the public and steer things to more tabloid-esque, emotionally driven, scandal based discussion based largley on implications and accusations for the sole purpose of providing an air of uncertainty from it's discussion, regardless of the eventual outcome or legitimacy, all to keep any actual discussion regarding real issues and factors that affect this country to legitimately and honestly be discussed and looked at.

It is the kind of thing that is so worthless about the political conversation in this country and why this time of the year, where we should generally be happy to see a higher involvement in politics, is mostly a horrible depression urging time as you realize that the great majority that are turning their eyes to it aren't doing so in any useful or intelligent way but are arguing what's more important....Who someone bullied 50 years ago or whose name sounds more foreign.

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

Gimmesometruth said:

Interesting, Romney is running on his business expertise, but when it comes to his personal business, his financial activity, you give him a pass.....because this is "personal".

It is obvious why he closed his Swiss accounts just before he filed to run for president in this cycle, it is all about what it represents to US voters. The problem is that he didn't close the Cayman accounts at the same time. The question is, why does he have these accounts in the first place and why, if there is no problem with having them, would he choose to close any of them?

His father released 12 years of returns, he has released only one, showing his minimal rate of taxation. I am willing to bet that that was the best looking return his campaign could come up with.

The more his finances are revealed, the more we will see that he is representative of the oligarchy behind him.

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I suspect that Romney is being cagey with his tax returns for fear of revealing shady practices at Bain. Again, not necessarily *illegal* practices, but possibly unethical. Romney's trying to sell himself to America based upon his business experience. Fine. So open up the books. That's all I'm saying.

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

AdamT said:

Seriously, this guy needs to come clean and release a lot more information about his financial dealings and taxes. Multiple offshore accounts, impossibly large IRAs, disappearing assets.... If Obama's finances looked like this the right wing conspiracy machine would be spinning out of control:

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Seriously this reeks just as the ‘birther’ controversy did which equally had the ‘left wing conspiracy machine’ spinning out of control…carry on…:lamo

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

Dickieboy said:

Seriously this reeks just as the ‘birther’ controversy did which equally had the ‘left wing conspiracy machine’ spinning out of control…carry on…:lamo

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I agree.. let Romney win first and then like Obama let him produce it a year or two later.. its not like hes not an American like Frank Marshall Obama

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

Zyphlin said:

Your actions say you don't agree, because you're been harping on stupid **** since you've come to the forum. On the contrary, your second part of your post shows the truth far more than the statement of "you agree". You DON'T agree with what I said...you simply care to throw out every idiotic, stupid, non-sensical, over exaggerated, hyper partisan, ridiculous, pointless bull**** you can find about Obama because you're obsessed with him having to "GO" not with any kind of honest discussion, debate, objectivity, honest thought, or anything of the sort. You, much like Adam in this case, operate singularly and entirely due to political pandering and shilling, not because of any kind of objective honest reasoning or thought. What helps your side and what hurts the other is objective #1, 2, and 3 on people like you all's list of "top 3 things to care about regarding discussing politics".

AdamT dresses it up in prettier words and presents it in a less over the top method than you, but the two of you are mirror images all the same. This **** is nothing but political theater and worthless attempts to distract the public and steer things to more tabloid-esque, emotionally driven, scandal based discussion based largley on implications and accusations for the sole purpose of providing an air of uncertainty from it's discussion, regardless of the eventual outcome or legitimacy, all to keep any actual discussion regarding real issues and factors that affect this country to legitimately and honestly be discussed and looked at.

It is the kind of thing that is so worthless about the political conversation in this country and why this time of the year, where we should generally be happy to see a higher involvement in politics, is mostly a horrible depression urging time as you realize that the great majority that are turning their eyes to it aren't doing so in any useful or intelligent way but are arguing what's more important....Who someone bullied 50 years ago or whose name sounds more foreign.

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Save us your holier than thou bull****, Zyph. This is a perfectly legitimate line of inquiry and has been for every presidential candidate in our lifetimes.

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

Zyphlin said:

Your actions say you don't agree, because you're been harping on stupid **** since you've come to the forum. On the contrary, your second part of your post shows the truth far more than the statement of "you agree". You DON'T agree with what I said...you simply care to throw out every idiotic, stupid, non-sensical, over exaggerated, hyper partisan, ridiculous, pointless bull**** you can find about Obama because you're obsessed with him having to "GO" not with any kind of honest discussion, debate, objectivity, honest thought, or anything of the sort. You, much like Adam in this case, operate singularly and entirely due to political pandering and shilling, not because of any kind of objective honest reasoning or thought. What helps your side and what hurts the other is objective #1, 2, and 3 on people like you all's list of "top 3 things to care about regarding discussing politics".

AdamT dresses it up in prettier words and presents it in a less over the top method than you, but the two of you are mirror images all the same. This **** is nothing but political theater and worthless attempts to distract the public and steer things to more tabloid-esque, emotionally driven, scandal based discussion based largley on implications and accusations for the sole purpose of providing an air of uncertainty from it's discussion, regardless of the eventual outcome or legitimacy, all to keep any actual discussion regarding real issues and factors that affect this country to legitimately and honestly be discussed and looked at.

It is the kind of thing that is so worthless about the political conversation in this country and why this time of the year, where we should generally be happy to see a higher involvement in politics, is mostly a horrible depression urging time as you realize that the great majority that are turning their eyes to it aren't doing so in any useful or intelligent way but are arguing what's more important....Who someone bullied 50 years ago or whose name sounds more foreign.

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great job dude! Swearing is totally mature and gets the point across!

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

Gimmesometruth said:

The more his finances are revealed, the more we will see that he is representative of the oligarchy behind him.

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Do you REALLY need to see them to see that? I mean would it lessen your current opinion?

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

Dickieboy said:

Seriously this reeks just as the ‘birther’ controversy did which equally had the ‘left wing conspiracy machine’ spinning out of control…carry on…:lamo

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Seriously? The "birther controversy" was wholly fabricated by people who couldn't believe a dark-skinned man with a funny name could ever be a "Real Amurican". The controversy over Mitt's finances has to do with a very wealthy man who refuses to show the citizenry how much money he has in other countries. In tax havens that we know are solely to avoid paying US taxes and for no other reason.

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

Dickieboy said:

Seriously this reeks just as the ‘birther’ controversy did which equally had the ‘left wing conspiracy machine’ spinning out of control…carry on…:lamo

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Seriously, it has absolutely no relation to the whackjob birther conspiracy. If y'all weren't so worried about it you wouldn't be peeing yourselves like you are. :lol:

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

Zyphlin said:

Your actions say you don't agree, because you're been harping on stupid **** since you've come to the forum. On the contrary, your second part of your post shows the truth far more than the statement of "you agree". You DON'T agree with what I said...you simply care to throw out every idiotic, stupid, non-sensical, over exaggerated, hyper partisan, ridiculous, pointless bull**** you can find about Obama because you're obsessed with him having to "GO" not with any kind of honest discussion, debate, objectivity, honest thought, or anything of the sort. You, much like Adam in this case, operate singularly and entirely due to political pandering and shilling, not because of any kind of objective honest reasoning or thought. What helps your side and what hurts the other is objective #1, 2, and 3 on people like you all's list of "top 3 things to care about regarding discussing politics".

AdamT dresses it up in prettier words and presents it in a less over the top method than you, but the two of you are mirror images all the same. This **** is nothing but political theater and worthless attempts to distract the public and steer things to more tabloid-esque, emotionally driven, scandal based discussion based largley on implications and accusations for the sole purpose of providing an air of uncertainty from it's discussion, regardless of the eventual outcome or legitimacy, all to keep any actual discussion regarding real issues and factors that affect this country to legitimately and honestly be discussed and looked at.

It is the kind of thing that is so worthless about the political conversation in this country and why this time of the year, where we should generally be happy to see a higher involvement in politics, is mostly a horrible depression urging time as you realize that the great majority that are turning their eyes to it aren't doing so in any useful or intelligent way but are arguing what's more important....Who someone bullied 50 years ago or whose name sounds more foreign.

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Who are you addressing?

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

GJ Flash said:

First of all, you should know that asking questions about a Presidential candidate's past is racist.

But seriously. Seriously? It took two years just to get Obama to prove he is an American FFS.

Don't get me wrong, if Romney broke any laws then yes, the American people should know about it. I didn't read the Forbes hit piece, but does it suggest that Romney did anything criminal? I mean, other than making money (which is considered a HUGE crime to the Obamunists)?

Perhaps Romney could and should be more forthcoming in regards to his business dealings, just as Obama should be more forthcoming in regards to his Chicago real estate dealings with shady criminals (actual criminals, not simple capitalists). I would also like to see Obama's college transcripts, applications, and passport data. Also his selective service information and an investigation into why he has a social security number from a state in which he has never resided. Maybe Obama could also be a bit more forthcoming in regards to his allegiance to terrorists, communists, and other assorted anti-American radical nutjobs while we're at it.

Oh wait, asking those questions is RACIST. Sorry. My bad.

I don't know what the textbook definition of head-shaking hypocrisy is, but I know it when I see it.

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:roll: are you reading tabloids again and passing them off as actual journalism? :roll:

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

Zariak said:

great job dude! Swearing is totally mature and gets the point across!

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You hate to see a grown man bitchlsapped by a highschool student like that....

Nah, not really. :lmao

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

Travis007 said:

I agree... my POV is that Obama MUST GO.. period..Id vote for anyone but Obama... again ANYONE... nobody can be worse.. its impossible

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14.9% real unemployment (trending up)

14.4% African American Unemployment

11% Latino Unemployment

Massive new taxes in Obamatax on the poor and middle class (billions upon billions)

Lowest Labor Force Participation Rate since WW2

Worst Economic Recovery since WW2

More people received disability than were hired for the month of June 2012

More people on welfare than ever before

More people on food stamps than ever before

US Household is debt is sitting at 13 trillion dollars. It was 2 trillion 30 years ago

Mortgage debt as a % of GDP has tripled since 1995

Government spending as a % of GDP is the highest since WW2. Under Clinton it was 18%. Under Obama it's 24%.

Oh but did you know MItt Romney has a bank account in the Cayman Islands? What's he doing with one of those? There is no proof that any illegal activity has been committed, but if we pile on enough class warfare emotional rhetoric, dividing Americans against each other by income, maybe voters will forget about the misery and suffering they have lived under as a result of Obama's radical and failed far left policies.

First the far left Obamabots claimed Romney outsourced a bunch of jobs at Bain. Forget the fact that 79% of Obama's failed stimulus spending that went towards "Green Jobs" was paid out to foreign companies, we were supposed to believe that Romney was evil or something. Even Politifact, which leans left, called the Obama Campaign out on their lies and deception:

FactCheck.org : Obama’s ‘Outsourcer’ Overreach

Now we're supposed to believe if you have a bank account somewhere outside of the US, it's "murky" and you're "up to no good"

We have Obama on video telling us to "embrace the teachings of Derrick Bell" who was an extreme far left radical, but we're not allowed to judge Obama based on any of his radical associations. Have a foreign bank account? You're immediately suspect by the left wing Gestapo.

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

AdamT said:

Seriously, it has absolutely no relation to the whackjob birther conspiracy. If y'all weren't so worried about it you wouldn't be peeing yourselves like you are. :lol:

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...spinning out of control...as predicted...:lamo

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

Gimmesometruth said:

Interesting, Romney is running on his business expertise, but when it comes to his personal business, his financial activity, you give him a pass.....because this is "personal".

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I'm waiting for a rebuttal, though, i shouldn't expect one from these partisan hacks.

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

Somerville said:

Seriously? The "birther controversy" was wholly fabricated by people who couldn't believe a dark-skinned man with a funny name could ever be a "Real Amurican". The controversy over Mitt's finances has to do with a very wealthy man who refuses to show the citizenry how much money he has in other countries. In tax havens that we know are solely to avoid paying US taxes and for no other reason.

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The 'Birthers' Began on the Left - The Daily Beast

Investigating the roots of the Obama birthplace conspiracy theory, Wingnuts author John Avlon uncovers the first Birther—and finds she’s a Hillary Clinton supporter also implicated in Dan Rather’s exit from CBS.

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But there's an inconvenient truth liberals are going to have to confront: The Birthers began not on the right, but on the left.

Investigations for my new book, Wingnuts, revealed that the Birther conspiracy theory was first concocted by renegade members of the original Obama haters, Party Unity My Ass, known more commonly by their acronym, the PUMAs. They were a splinter group of hard-core Hillary Clinton supporters who did not want to give up the ghost after the bitter 50-state Bataan Death March to the 2008 Democratic nomination.

In the early summer of '08, message boards on sites like PUMAParty.com began lighting up with the ultimate reversal-of-fortune fantasy—that their party's nomination could be overturned on constitutional grounds. "Obama May Be Illegal to Be Elected President!" read one representative e-mail: "This came from a USNA [U.S. Naval Academy] alumnus. It'll be interesting to see how the media handle this...WRITE TO YOUR LOCAL newspaper editors etc. Keep this out there everyday possible. Also write to the DNC too!"

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Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

Somerville said:

Seriously? The "birther controversy" was wholly fabricated by people who couldn't believe a dark-skinned man with a funny name could ever be a "Real Amurican". The controversy over Mitt's finances has to do with a very wealthy man who refuses to show the citizenry how much money he has in other countries. In tax havens that we know are solely to avoid paying US taxes and for no other reason.

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And since he has not been charged and/or convicted of ANYTHING this is any less fabricated?...

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

Dickieboy said:

Do you REALLY need to see them to see that? I mean would it lessen your current opinion?

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When I said "we", it includes those who are not of the same ideology as me. I'm hoping that those on the fence really do face up to what and who Mitt represents. I know the RWE's won't (and how they have to hold their nose while supporting him is pretty funny) but again, it is the middle that will decide who occupies the WH next year. If the middle thinks Mitt repersents them, they have another thing coming.

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

Dickieboy said:

And since he has not been charged and/or convicted of ANYTHING this is any less fabricated?...

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Neither has Eric Holder.

Re: Romney's finances beyond murky

Tettsuo said:

This is about seeing what's necessary to improve the country. If your only view is with 1% of the country, how can you help the remaining 99%?

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Jesus Christ, this 99% bull**** can just **** right off for all I care. Guess what. There's not a politician, or frankly PERSON, in tihs country who actually understands or experiences what "99%" of the country experiences or deals with. 99% of the country sure as hell didn't graduate from Harvard, and I don't hold his accomplishment against Obama. Rather, I think that's a positive for him. You can pander to me about needing to "understand" the "99%" all you want but you may as well talk to a wall...the entire premise and reasoning of the argument is one of the most idiotic and worthless that I've heard in quite some time. This isn't just in terms of your use either, but in a general sense that keeps getting thrown out there. The selective nature of so many people on both sides in terms of when they wish to compliment and cheer and prop up accomplishment or instances of someone being in "elite" company and when they want to condemn, attack, degrade, demean, and suggest it as a negative is something that I find inherently ridiculous.

Right there along next to it is the notion that "Fair" should be used in any way, shape, or form in the discussion of taxes or what one pays to the government. Arbitrary, non-sensical, subjective words such as that should not and can not be a legitimatized standard for such reasoning.

To the previous poster commenting on his "love" of America being questionable because he invests in foreign businesses or he invests in foreign banks...if you wish to use such asinine reasoning to determine whether or not one "loves" his country shall we chastise any politician who owns a Sony or Panasonic TV over a Vizio for not "loving" America since they seek to give their money to foreign corporations. While I understand to some, largely a majority of individuals unlikely to vote for Romney or a Republican in a vast amount of circumstances anyways, seeking to lower ones tax burden through legal means (and at this point, other than AdamT complaining about "conspiracy theorists" on the right while directly implying that Romney's actions are dirty, there's no indication he's engaged in illegality) is somehow an evil and unamerican thing, I dare say for many....most of which undoubtly take measures themselves to reduce their tax burden, though not on the scale of Romney....there's nothing inherently horrible about that notion.

Am I surprised it's an issue? Not really. And I don't even disagree that it shouldn't be dug into. That's politics. It's going to happen. And it's going to get talked about. And much like other things of it's kind it'll likely have little affect outside of the base opposing him. However, as is the case with much of this type of crap, it's the method and implications that are made when presenting it that is what I find debasing but that also makes it useful as a political tool, sadly enough. From the very onset this was not a question regarding Romney's finances but rather an accusation of illegality and "Dirtiness" posed in the pseudo-Glenn Beck style of "ASKING QUESTIONS".