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Weary warriors favor Obama

Then maybe the left should support domestic exploration and exploitation of resources eh? Btw if it were about commercial interests of big oil we wouldnt have iron clad contracts with Iraq at this point for the majority of their oil production? Cause we dont, you know.

Well, we're already a net exporter of oil, but don't let facts get in your way. Then there's this...

Exxon, Shell win Iraq oil field deal
 
Weary warriors favor Obama | Reuters


Romney, along with his primary rivals Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich, had also accused Obama of "appeasement" toward U.S. enemies - a charge that drew a sharp Obama rebuttal. "Ask Osama bin Laden and the 22 out of 30 top al-Qaeda leaders who've been taken off the field whether I engage in appeasement," the president shot back. He has reproached GOP candidates: "Now is not the time for bluster."

If the election were held today, Obama would win the veteran vote by as much as seven points over Romney, higher than his margin in the general population.

The GOP's heated rhetoric, aimed at the party's traditional hawks, might be expected to resonate with veterans. Yet in interviews in South Carolina, a military-friendly red state, many former soldiers expressed anger at the toll of a decade of war, questioned the legitimacy of George W. Bush's Iraq invasion, and worried that the surge in Afghanistan won't make a difference in the long run.

"We looked real cool going into Iraq waving our guns," said McDowell, 50, who retired from the 82d Airborne Division in November with a Legion of Merit and two Bronze Stars. "But people lost their lives, and it made no sense."

Now he worries. "I really don't like the direction we are going, how we seem to come closer daily towards a war with Iran."



Republicans think having a yellow ribbon sticky on you car is "backing the troops." The troops know better. I hate those yellow ribbons.



i love slight of hand nonsense. Note the break down..


"everyone"

"non veterans"

"veterans and thier families"



what do you note different about the last breakdown? In order for them to reach thier goal of having a poll match the pre-written story, they obviously had to group veterans in with thier families (which is undefined)...


Even then, going through the poll, more feel the republicans are better than the democrats for veterans and their families. They couldn't make that one fly.... :lol:


You can also see in your poll, All americans strongly favor spending cuts over tax increases. They support republicans on defense and the economy. etc. etc....

so even by mixing veterans in with thier families, while comparing them to individuals. The results, do not favor the democrats, as this biased, slight of hand article claims.....

:failpail:


I have a bucket for this article,
 
i love slight of hand nonsense. Note the break down..


"everyone"

"non veterans"

"veterans and thier families"



what do you note different about the last breakdown? In order for them to reach thier goal of having a poll match the pre-written story, they obviously had to group veterans in with thier families (which is undefined)...


Even then, going through the poll, more feel the republicans are better than the democrats for veterans and their families. They couldn't make that one fly.... :lol:


You can also see in your poll, All americans strongly favor spending cuts over tax increases. They support republicans on defense and the economy. etc. etc....

so even by mixing veterans in with thier families, while comparing them to individuals. The results, do not favor the democrats, as this biased, slight of hand article claims.....

:failpail:


I have a bucket for this article,


Thanks, I appreciate your thoughtful post.
 
Well, we're already a net exporter of oil, but don't let facts get in your way. Then there's this...

Exxon, Shell win Iraq oil field deal

U.S. Companies Shut Out as Iraq Auctions Its Oil Fields - TIME

Those who claim that the U.S. invaded Iraq in 2003 to get control of the country's giant oil reserves will be left scratching their heads by the results of last weekend's auction of Iraqi oil contracts: Not a single U.S. company secured a deal in the auction of contracts that will shape the Iraqi oil industry for the next couple of decades. Two of the most lucrative of the multi-billion-dollar oil contracts went to two countries which bitterly opposed the U.S. invasion — Russia and China — while even Total Oil of France, which led the charge to deny international approval for the war at the U.N. Security Council in 2003, won a bigger stake than the Americans in the most recent auction. "[The distribution of oil contracts] certainly answers the theory that the war was for the benefit of big U.S. oil interests," says Alex Munton, Middle East oil analyst for the energy consultancy Wood Mackenzie, whose clients include major U.S. companies. "That has not been demonstrated by what has happened this week."

Read more: U.S. Companies Shut Out as Iraq Auctions Its Oil Fields - TIME


Further from your own link :
Iraq is planning a second bidding round on Dec. 11-12. Forty-five international oil companies will compete for development right for 10 oil projects.

So the first round of oil fields went for auction and the companies that got them could not properly develop them. Now more are coming up and you cite one bid of amongst 10 oil projects as an argument that US soldiers were quote: "to advance the commercial interests of Big Oil."

Equivalency and causation dont mean what you think they do.

I welcome your response as to why you placed the HH approved seal of fail pail poll in your OP.
 
Thanks, I appreciate your thoughtful post.




It's clear to see by the biased and misleading title, the author had an agenda and tried to wrap a poll that had to bend it's sampling to arrive at its conclusion. They may very well prefer obama, I doubt it, but it's possible, this poll and the corresponding article, fails on so many levels.
 
U.S. Companies Shut Out as Iraq Auctions Its Oil Fields - TIME




Further from your own link :

So the first round of oil fields went for auction and the companies that got them could not properly develop them. Now more are coming up and you cite one bid of amongst 10 oil projects as an argument that US soldiers were quote: "to advance the commercial interests of Big Oil."

Equivalency and causation dont mean what you think they do.

I welcome your response as to why you placed the HH approved seal of fail pail poll in your OP.



The article you cited is three years old.


UPDATE 1-Halliburton wins Exxon contract in Iraq | Energy & Oil | Reuters

Exxon Mobil, Shell to develop major Iraqi field - Houston Chronicle



Why do you think our troops were there? Bush trying to protect Iraqi women?
 
This is a very insulting and ignorant thread all around. Makes me mad.

First of all, the military generally leans right because they are a Conservative bunch. It's a Conservative organization in nature. This does not mean they support Republicans. What this means is that in a nation where our politics is simply defined, so as to make retardation normal, we are stuck supporting polished tirds instead of the unpolished ones. The Conservative leaning military began to take shape circa the Vietnam War when university hippies and the media made it clear what the troop's image was. Today, these griping veterans of the classroom lead our nation in courtrooms and in Washington and see military service as something to scoff at as they raise their chidlren to think the same. Of course, given the absontee ballot system, many of our votes go unaccounted for anyway. But if Liberals are uncomfortable with this, they could enlist and change the theme.

Second of all, when we find ourselves defining the military as just a bunch of people looking for social handouts without having to earn it, we should examine the branches. With a nation at war and the Active military being totally voluntary, perhaps we should recognize the roles. Is anybody enslisting into the Marine Corps or the Army without the understanding that they are deploying to war and, indeed, earning their social handouts? How about a Sailor, who wants to be a Corpsman with the knowledge that he is probably destined for the Fleet Marine Force? Perhaps the idea that people join the "military" for a social handout should be directed towards those who join the Coast Guard or the Air Force, which is far from the ground dangers and deploy schedules of others.

Third, "new Tricare fee hikes" and "cuts to education and retirements" is exactly how a cut in Defense spending happens. Throw in deadlined vehicles, a lack of maintenance parts, and broken barracks utilities and you have Washington's idea of Defense spending. Of course, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, General Dynamics, REDCOM, Oshkosh, and other such civilian companies who have tens to hundreds of thousands of employees across the States with Senators in Washington protecting their jobs, will contnue to get their billion dollar contracts. Nobody questions why big ticket billion dollar programs thrived during the 90s while our troops deployed to Afghanistan with duct tape on their NBC suits and no body armor? It's because their no money to be made with something like body armor. The real money and the real creation of jobs comes from techological programs that go on and on and on. Washington invests in toys...not troops.

And speaking of who supports who.......Where was the Democrat complaint about a lack of body armor for our troops when President Clinton was using us to sort out his humanitarian agendas in Europe (but ignoring those in Africa)? When troops were being thrown into the fire and being told to learn how to do what has never been in their training, police officers around the world were patrolling city streets from New York to Paris with body armor. And let's be real. Were it not for 9/11, President Bush was walking the same path. It wasn't until a Republican President sent our troops out for revenge in order to murder on behalf of Liberals and Conservatives alike that Democrats decided to use the lack of body armor as a political point. Despite the unspoken theme of Washington, the "War on Terror" has forced our suit wielding leaders to actually invest in the troop. Hence, the passing of the Vietnam era troop beginning in 2002. But now that Americans are tired of their wars, we seek to "cut military spending." They will begin by stripping from the troop (21,000 Marines have to simply dissapear) and protecting State jobs, which means the further celebration of the investment in unnecesary toys - for which former Army and Airforce Generals are famous for protecting in order to secure a future job on the outside upon retirement. By the way...not one F/A-22 has been used to support troops in either Iraq or Afghanistan. The reason? They are "too expensive to risk in combat."

Fourth, is the troop supposed to support a man (Bush) who has an absolute idiot as a Secretary of Defense (Rumsfeld)? Is he supposed to support a man (Kerry) who fancied it a great display of rebellion to disgrace the sacrifice of others by tossing his medals about when it was fashionable, but now wants to use his service to gain entrance to the White House? And how easy is it to support "Commanders-in-Chief" who never wore a uniform and one of which actually needed a lesson in saluting (Clinton)? With Hillary Clinton "landing under fire in Bosnia," Sarah Palin "defending America from Russia in Alaska," and Nancy Pelosi offering thanks to Iran for making the "positive difference during the surge" just to try to strip political points away from Bush, is any troop actually represented? Are we supposed to support people in Washington who would actually spend time deciding on whether or not a pizza is a vegetable just to defy Michelle Obama's quest to have our children eat healthier in public schools? How dare she do what parents aren't. Are these the people who represent you? One would think so as their constituents fall all over each other just to bash the other side in a hopes that it will be enough to allow their misrepresentation to linger on?

Fifth, the notion that our troops are victims of corporate greed and "wasted their lives" is always the cry of the self-righteous. Protecting corporation is exactly what our military has always done. Americans are free to purchase inexpensive gasoline, which allows more money to construct a certain life style for their children. Americans are free to expect the shelves in their super markets, furniture stores, and merchandising stores to be fully stocked and unobstructed by siezed waterways, instable regions, and tyrannical players on the world stage. Americans are free to think their way of life secure from wicked ideologies that seek to consume the earth in anti-Western influence. The Marine Corps' (and America's) first mission abroad was called the Barbary Pirates Wars. The details of these series of wars entailed clearing the Mediterranean Sea of pirates and destroying their bases in northern Africa because unlike European countries, our new country couldn't afford to pay ransoms and tolls to get our trades through. This series of wars was broken up with the War of 1812, when the British tried to aggress us again, but afterwards we went right back to the Med and secured our economic needs. This means that protecting corporation is exactly what it takes to maintain the American idea of "freedom." "No War for Oil" was always as ignorant as those who used oil based markers to make the signs. The British blockade of oil to the Germans was as important to the fall of Hitler as the Russian Front. The race to secure influence in the Middle East later was about denying the Soviet Union access to regional oil. Oh, but oil's not worth anything in 1991 when Saddam Hussein took down a major exporter and threatened the world economies? None of the military are victims of anything other than the American thirst to have DisneyLand well preserved and secure while those same Americans climb up on pedestals to look down upon those they call victims and deny the truth about what sustains them. The hypocracy of free people makes us victims.

If people truly want to "Support the Troop" they should demand that their Senators acknowledge the difference between the Defense Industry and the troop. Go to Supportthe Troop.com, make a package, and send it. Deny the politician's tactic of clinging to the efforts of military personnel as they exaggerate their political deeds, visitations or rediculous personal act to militarily defend the nation. Give a President credit for allowing the troop to do his job, without interference, but reserve the other 99% of the credit to those who sweat and bleed to actually carry out the mission with the real risk of leaving their children with one less parent. Acknowledge that the vast majority of all military action abroad, since the beginning of our history, had nothing to do with somebody "attacking our soil."

Use the troop to support Obama? Use the troop to support Bush? The troop deserves nothing better? The truth is that most could care less about what the troop or veteran actually thinks about matters. When Absontee Ballots are simply "misplaced or overlooked" from state to state, shouldn't it be obvious? It's easier just to pretend that military personnel are victims or crusaders (in accordance to who's guy is perched in the White House at the time) and allow politicians to preach against the fact that most of them could care less about the tool in the chest.

Weary warriors favor a better, intelligent nation for their blood.
 
I was not in the military but three guys in my office were and they say the same thing you do.

Have you ever served your country, in any way?
 
No kidding. If this was a War For Oil we appear to have unaccountably forgotten to seal the deal. :2razz:

Big oil is back in Iraq for the first time in 35 years without being beheaded. Saddam can no longer withhold oil from the world market causing spikes in oil prices. Saddam can no longer slow Iraqi oil production to drive up world oil prices. Mission Accomplished!!!

Did you miss seeing the big banner???

220px-Bush_mission_accomplished.jpg
 
This is a very insulting and ignorant thread all around. Makes me mad.

First of all, the military generally leans right because they are a Conservative bunch. It's a Conservative organization in nature. This does not mean they support Republicans. What this means is that in a nation where our politics is simply defined, so as to make retardation normal, we are stuck supporting polished tirds instead of the unpolished ones. The Conservative leaning military began to take shape circa the Vietnam War when university hippies and the media made it clear what the troop's image was. Today, these griping veterans of the classroom lead our nation in courtrooms and in Washington and see military service as something to scoff at as they raise their chidlren to think the same. Of course, given the absontee ballot system, many of our votes go unaccounted for anyway. But if Liberals are uncomfortable with this, they could enlist and change the theme.

Second of all, when we find ourselves defining the military as just a bunch of people looking for social handouts without having to earn it, we should examine the branches. With a nation at war and the Active military being totally voluntary, perhaps we should recognize the roles. Is anybody enslisting into the Marine Corps or the Army without the understanding that they are deploying to war and, indeed, earning their social handouts? How about a Sailor, who wants to be a Corpsman with the knowledge that he is probably destined for the Fleet Marine Force? Perhaps the idea that people join the "military" for a social handout should be directed towards those who join the Coast Guard or the Air Force, which is far from the ground dangers and deploy schedules of others.

Third, "new Tricare fee hikes" and "cuts to education and retirements" is exactly how a cut in Defense spending happens. Throw in deadlined vehicles, a lack of maintenance parts, and broken barracks utilities and you have Washington's idea of Defense spending. Of course, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, General Dynamics, REDCOM, Oshkosh, and other such civilian companies who have tens to hundreds of thousands of employees across the States with Senators in Washington protecting their jobs, will contnue to get their billion dollar contracts. Nobody questions why big ticket billion dollar programs thrived during the 90s while our troops deployed to Afghanistan with duct tape on their NBC suits and no body armor? It's because their no money to be made with something like body armor. The real money and the real creation of jobs comes from techological programs that go on and on and on. Washington invests in toys...not troops.

And speaking of who supports who.......Where was the Democrat complaint about a lack of body armor for our troops when President Clinton was using us to sort out his humanitarian agendas in Europe (but ignoring those in Africa)? When troops were being thrown into the fire and being told to learn how to do what has never been in their training, police officers around the world were patrolling city streets from New York to Paris with body armor. And let's be real. Were it not for 9/11, President Bush was walking the same path. It wasn't until a Republican President sent our troops out for revenge in order to murder on behalf of Liberals and Conservatives alike that Democrats decided to use the lack of body armor as a political point. Despite the unspoken theme of Washington, the "War on Terror" has forced our suit wielding leaders to actually invest in the troop. Hence, the passing of the Vietnam era troop beginning in 2002. But now that Americans are tired of their wars, we seek to "cut military spending." They will begin by stripping from the troop (21,000 Marines have to simply dissapear) and protecting State jobs, which means the further celebration of the investment in unnecesary toys - for which former Army and Airforce Generals are famous for protecting in order to secure a future job on the outside upon retirement. By the way...not one F/A-22 has been used to support troops in either Iraq or Afghanistan. The reason? They are "too expensive to risk in combat."

Fourth, is the troop supposed to support a man (Bush) who has an absolute idiot as a Secretary of Defense (Rumsfeld)? Is he supposed to support a man (Kerry) who fancied it a great display of rebellion to disgrace the sacrifice of others by tossing his medals about when it was fashionable, but now wants to use his service to gain entrance to the White House? And how easy is it to support "Commanders-in-Chief" who never wore a uniform and one of which actually needed a lesson in saluting (Clinton)? With Hillary Clinton "landing under fire in Bosnia," Sarah Palin "defending America from Russia in Alaska," and Nancy Pelosi offering thanks to Iran for making the "positive difference during the surge" just to try to strip political points away from Bush, is any troop actually represented? Are we supposed to support people in Washington who would actually spend time deciding on whether or not a pizza is a vegetable just to defy Michelle Obama's quest to have our children eat healthier in public schools? How dare she do what parents aren't. Are these the people who represent you? One would think so as their constituents fall all over each other just to bash the other side in a hopes that it will be enough to allow their misrepresentation to linger on?

Fifth, the notion that our troops are victims of corporate greed and "wasted their lives" is always the cry of the self-righteous. Protecting corporation is exactly what our military has always done. Americans are free to purchase inexpensive gasoline, which allows more money to construct a certain life style for their children. Americans are free to expect the shelves in their super markets, furniture stores, and merchandising stores to be fully stocked and unobstructed by siezed waterways, instable regions, and tyrannical players on the world stage. Americans are free to think their way of life secure from wicked ideologies that seek to consume the earth in anti-Western influence. The Marine Corps' (and America's) first mission abroad was called the Barbary Pirates Wars. The details of these series of wars entailed clearing the Mediterranean Sea of pirates and destroying their bases in northern Africa because unlike European countries, our new country couldn't afford to pay ransoms and tolls to get our trades through. This series of wars was broken up with the War of 1812, when the British tried to aggress us again, but afterwards we went right back to the Med and secured our economic needs. This means that protecting corporation is exactly what it takes to maintain the American idea of "freedom." "No War for Oil" was always as ignorant as those who used oil based markers to make the signs. The British blockade of oil to the Germans was as important to the fall of Hitler as the Russian Front. The race to secure influence in the Middle East later was about denying the Soviet Union access to regional oil. Oh, but oil's not worth anything in 1991 when Saddam Hussein took down a major exporter and threatened the world economies? None of the military are victims of anything other than the American thirst to have DisneyLand well preserved and secure while those same Americans climb up on pedestals to look down upon those they call victims and deny the truth about what sustains them. The hypocracy of free people makes us victims.

If people truly want to "Support the Troop" they should demand that their Senators acknowledge the difference between the Defense Industry and the troop. Go to Supportthe Troop.com, make a package, and send it. Deny the politician's tactic of clinging to the efforts of military personnel as they exaggerate their political deeds, visitations or rediculous personal act to militarily defend the nation. Give a President credit for allowing the troop to do his job, without interference, but reserve the other 99% of the credit to those who sweat and bleed to actually carry out the mission with the real risk of leaving their children with one less parent. Acknowledge that the vast majority of all military action abroad, since the beginning of our history, had nothing to do with somebody "attacking our soil."

Use the troop to support Obama? Use the troop to support Bush? The troop deserves nothing better? The truth is that most could care less about what the troop or veteran actually thinks about matters. When Absontee Ballots are simply "misplaced or overlooked" from state to state, shouldn't it be obvious? It's easier just to pretend that military personnel are victims or crusaders (in accordance to who's guy is perched in the White House at the time) and allow politicians to preach against the fact that most of them could care less about the tool in the chest.

Weary warriors favor a better, intelligent nation for their blood.




Excellent post. Thanks.
 
Have you ever served your country, in any way?

There are two sides to serving ones country. Some protect it's soil and its interests. But isn't it the teachers, constructionists, engineers, medical staffs, etc. that build it and make it prosperous? ...I mean, despite the government's drive to stagnate it in political quagmire.
 
Have to say, that's one of the best posts I've read on this forum.

Back in the day, MSgt was more active and we were all treated to his great posts on a regular basis. That was back when he was a mere GySgt though.

You want some education on the ME, he's the best one here for it.
 
Big oil is back in Iraq for the first time in 35 years without being beheaded. Saddam can no longer withhold oil from the world market causing spikes in oil prices. Saddam can no longer slow Iraqi oil production to drive up world oil prices. Mission Accomplished!!!

Did you miss seeing the big banner???

220px-Bush_mission_accomplished.jpg

It's easy to place oil in the spotlight. But c'mon. Be honest and step back a bit.....

I believe oil (in regards to Iraq) was and is a byproduct. Since the world's oil deals with Arabs across the region remained solid and secure, was Iraq's oil such a pertinent thing? Look at his track record. We forgave his assault into Iran, because Iran pissed us off and then, after he discovered that he bit off more than he could chew, acted as the defender of the region as Khomeini made his retaliation plan known. Then he invaded Kuwait in 1990 and caused the world to have to react in order to protect wider oil flow from the region. We forgave him again with conditions because of our selfish fears of instability if the dictator was removed from this fractured unnatural population. Since being allowed to live, he caused the U.S. and others much grievance by ignoring UN mandates. He caused humanitarian crisis up north, which caused movement from Turkey, which caused the U.S. to constantly drop troops into "Kurdistan" to protect UN and humanitarian workers. He caused an ever escellation of U.S. troop strength in Saudi Arabia every time he rushed his military to his southern borders to get a rise from us just to boost his bruised ego. He constantly defied protected air space by flying in the no-fly zones. Before Bush took the White House, the majority of all of our allies had dropped out of the UN mission and left it solely as a U.S. burden. Then Osama Bin Laden used the "starving children of Iraq" to justify 9/11. And as late as 2002, Saddam Hussein flew his military jets into Jordanian air space just to dare our reaction. Saddam Hussein constantly proved, that given the opportunity, he would cause turmoil for his neighbors and thereby affect the oil flow of other nations. All he wanted to do was defy. He was a thorn and the governments of the Middle East were constantly looking for the U.S. to deal with his behaviors.

I would submit that oil was important, but it was about the wider region's product. Iraq was about removing the thorn. Regardless of Saddam Hussein's presence and existence, oil spikes continue.

Oh...and the "big banner?" That was a fool's idea to win political points, thereby demonstrating his Cabinet's ignorance of what they ordered up and what they started. Rumsfeld had visions of the end of the Gulf War and he proved ignorant all the way up to his being fired. Or is it a coincidence that Iraq turned around when a new Defense Secretary embraced the wisdom of a military General (Patreaus) and the wisdom of a cultural expert (Vali Naser)?
 
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Well said MSgt.

I'll add that many veterans realize how much their country 'values' them when they're on the way out of the service. . . you're spoon-fed moral boosting crap, given awards and laud praise and honor for 20 years; actually sacrifice sanity, life, and limb - and in the end: you're more likely to just be given the shaft for it all anyway because you've been deemed 'unnecessary' or 'around for too long' as the strain on you finally catches up to you.

. . . so is the lesson my husband's learning. And to hear his bitter recounting of what's wrong with 'our Great American Nation' in the last few weeks has been quite painful for me to sit through.

But - one such revelation he's made is that we're really not all that Great - we've had to brainwash ourselves in believing we are so we can garnish continued support every time we want to 'go it alone' - and he's cited that every militarized 'success' we've had has only been when we banded together with other nations to achieve a specified goal.
 
Well said MSgt.

I'll add that many veterans realize how much their country 'values' them when they're on the way out of the service. . . you're spoon-fed moral boosting crap, given awards and laud praise and honor for 20 years; actually sacrifice sanity, life, and limb - and in the end: you're more likely to just be given the shaft for it all anyway because you've been deemed 'unnecessary' or 'around for too long' as the strain on you finally catches up to you.

. . . so is the lesson my husband's learning. And to hear his bitter recounting of what's wrong with 'our Great American Nation' in the last few weeks has been quite painful for me to sit through.

But - one such revelation he's made is that we're really not all that Great - we've had to brainwash ourselves in believing we are so we can garnish continued support every time we want to 'go it alone' - and he's cited that every militarized 'success' we've had has only been when we banded together with other nations to achieve a specified goal.

He and I should get together.

Personally, I don't have any bitterness towards retiring. It's not like I was drafted for the last 20 years. I volunteered and signed a contract. I've got free medical for life and plenty of other VA benefits to take advantage of. I figure it's like any other situation people go through. Once you retire and stop making money for the company, are they supposed to care about you? Granted, a military career full of training & depoyments tend to pile on physical and mental hardship that stays forever and damages future opportunities and relationships, but you have to take advantage of that VA and force them to do what they are supposed to do.

I understand his bitterness. Quite clearly in fact. But, it pays to step back and examine just for your own sake of peace. My bitterness is two parted. I don't like what the Marine Corps has become during this deployment frenzy over the years. Deployment schedules and spreadsheet inventories of gear and personnel have taken the place of actually caring for the Marine. The other part, is due to my studies of history giving me a better understanding of my experiences over the last two decades, I have a pessimist streak towards our politicians. Our leaders seek to "serve America", yet prove often that they do not care about Americans. I accept that our government has to do what it has to do sometimes against the grain. Governments can't afford to be dictated by morality alone and citizens, who bare no responsibility beyond personal interests, have the luxury of unfairly criticizing. But since I have great appreciation for bold leadership, I can't stand it when politicians deliver speeches to the masses that avoid the truth of what we do. Our first mission as a nation is to protect interests that allow us to prosper. Just like any other nation. People confuse our national morality with that mission because, since we have been so powerful and wealthy, we have been able to afford to usually travel that theme in the course of our mission. But the preaching, delivered by suits from behind their political pulpits, always seek to ease the burden of the mission by exaggerating our good will. Because they do this, Americans eventually get disillusioned when they discover other real motives that never needed to be hidden in the first place. This makes the mission harder and thusly applies further burden on the guy behind the gun who gets to feel forsaken by his government and people as he deploys.

Truth matters. Our problem is that we have no faith in each other to appreciate that we, as a people, are capable of accepting it. We truly are a nation of great moral value. But we forget the truth of our general morality everytime a politician buffers the complete truth of our efforts by exaggerating it as the sole motivation. It makes people believe that we have none as politicians then turn around and exaggerate humility, thereby implying grevious and henious acts and validating the world's unfair finger pointing.

So true about our track record. We tend to do things in a big way. It's as if we are all "Texans" at heart. Since World War II we have been bulls in a china shop. We are the elephant in the room. Europeans may be fond of pretending that we aren't who we are, but when that elephant moves, the entire room knows and feels it. I believe it is our unprecedented power that has hurt us. It has allowed our leaders to imagine that we can do anything....

1) Almost 50,000 extra men died in the Korean War just because instead of ending it when China wanted, we injected a moral clause and continued for some 14 months over the subject of re-patriation (a first in history). We were largely went alone in that war (Europe was still licking its wounds) and the end result was a Korea divided in half to this day.

2) Vietnam was inherited from the French, but our lone mission there merely ended in abandonment with mass genocide as a result. When it came to the Gulf War, we had the entire world reacting and we managed to tie a yellow bow at its conclusion (even though it was premature since we threw ourselves parades while Iraqis went on to be systematically tortured and slaughtered by the dictator we forgave).

3) We dragged NATO forces into Bosnia despite UN concerns. When it came to Kosovo, we convinced the French to help us with the bombing, despite the UN labeling our action illegal. And the end result of our efforts in "Yugoslavia" has been to make it safe for gun runners to shift their wears around until one day we "free" them enough to re-ignite the tribal slaughter.

4) Afghanistan has been a mess. And despite the critics voice, it was always Afghanistan, not Iraq, that was another Vietnam. Since people will point out that Afghanistan has been more of a Gulf War type Coalition that defies the generality, I would point out that it has been a mess because our lone dictating of direction reflects our lone efforts in other parts in history.

5) And Iraq? That's the icing on the cake on why it is important to have a committee of force to agree upon various ideas.

Monopolies hurt and kill opportunity. We have been a monopoly on the world stage since World War II, which happens to be the last time we ever received unconditional surrenders from an enemy. Since, we do not really enlist the guidance and suggestions of others, we have only ourselves to fall back on. The problem here is that we are between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, those who would seek to suggest and guide have also perfected ethnic cleansing and genocide on their continent through the centuries and given us such hits as World Wars and Cold Wars. They look down upon us and take advantage of us. On the other hand, we are extremely young and we inherited a world we hardly knew in the 1940s (and still don't). We stumble about in the dark. Given this fact, it is to our credit that we have made so few mistakes so far, but we do tend to stumble and trip along the way because we fancy ourselves as independent workers. We preach about being a part of the global community full of allies, but the truth is that we do not trust them enough to be a part of their club. They know it. We know it. This is why Europeans percieve NATO as American and we NATO as European.

But, we are a part of a more exclusive club. And it's not themed around democracy. It was the English speaking nations that invaded Europe on behalf of Europeans. The international language of business is English. It is the English speaking actor/musician that rules the global mainstream culture. It was Charles de' Gaulle of France that preached of the unity of continental Europe, excluding the U.K. The three nations that bare the brunt of casualties in Afghanistan is the U.S., U.K., and Canada. And it was the English speaking nations that came closer together over Iraq. But there has been back lash over the existence of this exclusive club. Had "greater" Europe placed more effort into supporting the mission to rid the region of Saddam Hussein as thy did tearing us down, would there have been a global theme of ingnited anti-Americanism? This English speaking club has placed us on the outside of a larger team effort, which paves the way for us to "go it alone" more often than not. It makes things harder for us, but I see this as a global failure and less of an American one. The global theme is centered around "stability" at all costs. It's why we created the United Nations. It assisted us in the wake of global war and during the Cold War. But today, we struggle with the idea of the dictator long after true instability - world wars - has been made next to impossible. Long after the Berlin Wall came down, we seek ancient international laws that cater to a non-globalized world when kings, kaisers, and tsars (dictators of old) were more free to affect neighboring countries and regions. We had decided, over the course of the last half of the 20th century, that following immoral international laws (made legal) is moral and we actually struggle with the subject on whether or not to support people or dictators. We have followed in the immoral mainstream foot steps of the world for so long that we now buck the system. And since much of the world declares a very loud "how dare you" attitude towards us, we think worse about ourselves and imagine that they must be right.

A globalized world consumed in democracies (since 1900) should not be seeking to follow the rules set by the monarchs of old. A world full of awareness and supposed high morality should be intelligent enough to recognize that dictators didn't bring true stability and prosperity to the West. Wheher we admit it or not, we have gone to far down the path that keeps us believeing that dictators in other regions are actually in our best interests. That the misery and oppression of others are paramount to good order and discipline for the rest of us. We are so afraid of regional instability (world wars and disasterous effects to economies) that we encourage immoral acts of apathy and support to monsters.

It's easy to get consumed with bitterness. I struggle with it myself these days. But we have to step back and remind ourselves that the extremely high bar that we have set for ourselves cannot be reached. We have to survive in a world that hides bad morality, purely selfish intentions, and apathy behind a series of international laws that are viewed as moral. I believe our track record proves us to be of higher morality. After all, how many nations of our power ever created organizations (League of nations, United Nations) to share power? Perhaps there is more jealousy than anything amongst our global critics because we have found ways to not abuse our power completely. Either way, our leaders no longer represent our national theme and plenty of Americans have been sold a bill of goods that have them confused about what that even is thanks to the exaggerated preachings of politicians. Our historical mission has been clear. And it didn't and will not always be themed solely on perfect morality. We only lack to knowledge of our on history. But we cannot go it alone. The world saw European powers go it alone in constant odds until it culminated into World Wars. Going it alone is not the right path. But niether is foolishly and blindly following along with the mainstream as they cater to the instability that "stability" creates. We need to slow down and the rest of the world needs to turn the corner. France's mission with Libya was a step in the right direction. They looked more American than we did.
 
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There are two sides to serving ones country. Some protect it's soil and its interests. But isn't it the teachers, constructionists, engineers, medical staffs, etc. that build it and make it prosperous?

Yes. And there are those that do it voluntarily without financial reward.
 
It's easy to place oil in the spotlight. But c'mon. Be honest and step back a bit.....

I believe oil (in regards to Iraq) was and is a byproduct.

STRATEGIC ENERGY POLICY CHALLENGES FOR THE 21ST CENTURY

REPORT OF AN INDEPENDENT TASK FORCE

March, 2001


"As it is, national solutions alone cannot work. Politicians still speak of U.S. energy independence,

while the United States is importing more than half of its oil supplies and may soon for the first time

become reliant on sources outside North America for substantial amounts of natural gas. More flexible

environmental regulation and opening of more federal lands to drilling might slow but cannot stop this

process. Dependence is so incredibly large, and growing so inexorably, that national autonomy is simply

not a viable goal. In the global economy, it may not even be a desirable one."


"But recently, things have changed. These Gulf allies are finding their domestic and foreign policy

interests increasingly at odds with U.S. strategic considerations, especially as Arab-Israeli tensions flare.

They have become less inclined to lower oil prices in exchange for security of markets, and evidence

suggests that inadequate investment is being made in a timely enough manner to increase production

capacity in line with growing global needs. A trend toward anti-Americanism could affect regional

leaders' ability to cooperate with the U.S. in the energy area.


The resulting tight markets have increased U.S. and global vulnerability to disruption and provided

adversaries undue potential influence over the price of oil. Iraq has become a key “swing” producer,

posing a difficult situation for the U.S. government."


Several key producing countries in these important areas remain closed to investment.

Encouragement of open investment policies in these countries would greatly promote renewed

competition among the largest oil producers and the advancement of oil supplies in the coming years. A

reopening of these areas to foreign investment could make a critical difference in providing surplus

supplies to markets in the coming decade."


"Over the past year, Iraq has effectively become a swing producer, turning its taps on and

off when it has felt such action was in its strategic interest to do so."


"Review policies towards Iraq with the aim to lowering anti-Americanism in the Middle East

and elsewhere, and set the groundwork to eventually ease Iraqi oil-field investment

restrictions. Iraq remains a destabilizing influence to U.S. allies in the Middle East, as well as

to regional and global order, and to the flow of oil to international markets from the Middle

East. Saddam Hussein has also demonstrated a willingness to threaten to use the oil weapon

and to use his own export program to manipulate oil markets. This would display his personal

power, enhance his image as a “Pan-Arab” leader supporting the Palestinians against Israel,

and pressure others for a lifting of economic sanctions against his regime.

The United States should conduct an immediate policy review towards Iraq, including

military
, energy, economic and political/diplomatic assessments."


https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:pntoHpkcw1EJ:www.bakerinstitute.org/publications/strategic-energy-policy-challenges-for-the-21st-century-complete-text-of-the-report-by-the-independent-task-force+energy+challenges+in+the+21st+century&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgPiyWd-kdPtlvusqyxa-BerdVeIUFokHuuK_yCuNcSjfgohNRA3dP8hC1iRiObdDd3upopLlvylUX01NlyfOJR6e8D2XXZCevqnXBqQrxJjS4x6-9ISBPNC66CpyLXe0I3vRLA&sig=AHIEtbRRsekdrJLVmBS22Zj65dtMCp0dXQ
 
STRATEGIC ENERGY POLICY CHALLENGES FOR THE 21ST CENTURY

REPORT OF AN INDEPENDENT TASK FORCE

March, 2001

.......

I'm not sure what your argument is. You're not really making one. This Think Tank piece enforces my argument, with the exception that it places Iraq as the key figure for oil production. 11 years after the report was written, can you honestly not see their error in this regard? The conclusion suggests that "The United States should conduct an immediate policy review." It does not ask for invasion. So what do you actually have here? Like I stated, oil is important. However, these type reports are what we can expect to see from the plethora of Think Tanks out there. You could also produce reports analyzing an attack into Iran, North Korea, and even China. This doesn't mean that people can fall back on reports, written by people outside the Pentagon and White House, when they seek to determine purpose after the event. You can read up on a report that lays out all the rich minerals in Afghanstan when they used to mine a few decades ago. Does this mean that our invasion into Afghanistan was not about 9/11 revenge and really all about minerals? If we ever take out Iran will it be because some Think Tanks wrote earlier about Iranian oil? Will the shallow critics shove the whole nuclear weapon program aside to settle in on "oil?" There are Think Tanks that travel an extreme theme either way about everything. How many Think Tank reports call for a wal on our southern border? Or relaxed borders? Does this mean that whatever is done in the future we can go back to a select Think Tank report (which has nothing to do with the FBI or Washington) and "prove" intent?

The evidence is clear. The history is clear. Everything points to exactly what I stated about what we really wanted, which was to rid ourselves of the UN mission, alleviate the pressures of his oil producing neighbors, and strip the Bin Ladens of an excuse. We get plenty of oil from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Egypt & South America. We get plenty of oil from ourselves and even export it to others. Iraq was about something more important than what we can and was getting from everywhere else. The report states that ridding ourselves of the Iraq mission would improve upon the anti-American sentiment in the region. Shall we consider this as well? Or just stick with the theme of oil part?

"Independent" means outside of the loop. There's a lot of intelligence in Think Tanks. But they are full of people who crunch numbers and come to conclusions without considering culture and human nature. Ever wonder why culturists seem to have their conclusions validated far more than economists? It's because one side can't fathom a world where human behavior dictates fate and not a spread sheet full of numbers, polls, and ideological themes of organization. Iraq was very much about ridding ourselves of the costly UN mission and hoping the people would create a more regional friendly government. What ever oil the U.S. and the rest of the world would inherit came later.

Do the work yourself. Just step back and look at the situation from 1991 without the agendas of opinion pieces, reports, and political bias. It's pretty clear.
 
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I'm not sure what your argument is. You're not really making one. This Think Tank piece enforces my argument, with the exception that it places Iraq as the key figure for oil production. 11 years after the report was written, can you honestly not see their error in this regard? The conclusion suggests that "The United States should conduct an immediate policy review." It does not ask for invasion. So what do you actually have here? Like I stated, oil is important. However, these type reports are what we can expect to see from the plethora of Think Tanks out there. You could also produce reports analyzing an attack into Iran, North Korea, and even China. This doesn't mean that people can fall back on reports, written by people outside the Pentagon and White House, when they seek to determine purpose after the event. You can read up on a report that lays out all the rich minerals in Afghanstan when they used to mine a few decades ago. Does this mean that our invasion into Afghanistan was not about 9/11 revenge and really all about minerals? If we ever take out Iran will it be because some Think Tanks wrote earlier about Iranian oil? Will the shallow critics shove the whole nuclear weapon program aside to settle in on "oil?" There are Think Tanks that travel an extreme theme either way about everything. How many Think Tank reports call for a wal on our southern border? Or relaxed borders? Does this mean that whatever is done in the future we can go back to a select Think Tank report (which has nothing to do with the FBI or Washington) and "prove" intent?

The evidence is clear. The history is clear. Everything points to exactly what I stated about what we really wanted, which was to rid ourselves of the UN mission, alleviate the pressures of his oil producing neighbors, and strip the Bin Ladens of an excuse. We get plenty of oil from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Egypt & South America. We get plenty of oil from ourselves and even export it to others. Iraq was about something more important than what we can and was getting from everywhere else. The report states that ridding ourselves of the Iraq mission would improve upon the anti-American sentiment in the region. Shall we consider this as well? Or just stick with the theme of oil part?

"Independent" means outside of the loop. There's a lot of intelligence in Think Tanks. But they are full of people who crunch numbers and come to conclusions without considering culture and human nature. Ever wonder why culturists seem to have their conclusions validated far more than economists? It's because one side can't fathom a world where human behavior dictates fate and not a spread sheet full of numbers, polls, and ideological themes of organization. Iraq was very much about ridding ourselves of the costly UN mission and hoping the people would create a more regional friendly government. What ever oil the U.S. and the rest of the world would inherit came later.

Do the work yourself. Just step back and look at the situation from 1991 without the agendas of opinion pieces, reports, and political bias. It's pretty clear.

The report from Cheney's Task Force recommends military action as an option to deal with the threat Iraq presents to world oil market prices. That is the only threat to the US from Iraq that has been verified.

Most of the world knows the Iraq war was about oil, but if you wish to keep the blinders on, knock yourself out!
 
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