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Poll: Condi Rice tops GOP VP list [W:132]

In this particular set of circumstances yes. She plays to the women and the black. She is a candidate that covers two bases at one time. I look at a pic such as this as pandering from the R party. But most of the moves either side makes are pandering. They need votes to get power and then they pee on everyone and do what they want. The next time you're important will be at election time. In between we are meaningless.

Looking at Condi Rice as a candidate and not a black women changes nothing, she is a good pick. Qualified, articulate, supportive of conservative ideas, personable and highly intelligent. She would be a good step in forcing the Obama campaign to stop playing identity politics and trying wedge issues and actually talk about policy. That, in and of itself, is the best reason to pick her.
 
IMO, Zyphylin's analysis is on the mark. Secretary Rice has the political and intellectual gravitas to serve as VP. Putting aside debates over ideology, she would be fully capable of immediately stepping into the role of the Presidency should that situation ever arise. Her life story is also a powerful account of how one can rise from difficult life circumstances through education and hard work. Indeed, her leveraging education to achieve success is an example that would be a strong counterweight to a growing anti-intellectualism in the U.S. by which legislators are imposing their ideological preferences on schools, particularly in the sciences. The increasingly demanding and dynamic global economy makes a college education not just a de facto starting point for meaningful career success, but also for relative job security. Scientific leadership is also a foundation for innovation that is essential to long-term economic success and job creation. Secretary Rice would be a strong and inspiring choice.
 
While the Palin pick was an obvious pandering pick that was an insult to women, I don't think picking Rice would necessarily be pandering. She was the Secretary of State under Bush. That's a quality pick if you support Bush's foreign policy.
Well that alone makes it less than a quality pick. I was not fond of his foreign policy.
 
Looking at Condi Rice as a candidate and not a black women changes nothing, she is a good pick. Qualified, articulate, supportive of conservative ideas, personable and highly intelligent. She would be a good step in forcing the Obama campaign to stop playing identity politics and trying wedge issues and actually talk about policy. That, in and of itself, is the best reason to pick her.
I can see your point.
 
In this particular set of circumstances yes. She plays to the women and the black. She is a candidate that covers two bases at one time. I look at a pic such as this as pandering from the R party. But most of the moves either side makes are pandering. They need votes to get power and then they pee on everyone and do what they want. The next time you're important will be at election time. In between we are meaningless.

Well, I also don't believe there's a War on Women; so I wouldn't see it the way you do, I guess.
 
Well that alone makes it less than a quality pick. I was not fond of his foreign policy.
Well, it's a quality pick for conservatives who agree with Bush's policy. If you're determining the quality of a candidate running for a different ideology, you're not going to look for whether or not they agree with you. You're to look at whether or not they have the experience and intelligence. Rice has both. Thus, she is a quality candidate for Republicans.
 
I cannot imagine The GOP becoming pro Black.

Rice certainly has the brain power. Problem is she is much too strong for Romney. I don't know that the ofey GOP could really accept such a strong VP candidate. Condi has more class than all the former candidates combined. Romney is already a clueless chancer. Next to Rice he will look like a third rate VP pick.
 
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According to many on the right yes.

An equally asinine notion there as well. Much like Condi's gender and ethnicity is a potential advantage, so to was Barack's ethnicity. However, the push of Obama as President was not "pandering" to the black vote, in part because...frankly...voting "blocks" such as those don't actually share such a common thought process that there's any singular individual that is going to largely sway a significant amount of undecided or people that go the other way to your side.

That's part of the nature that makes suggesting its a ploy doesn't really work. Women already don't vote in some monolithic group, and do it far less so than even Blacks at this point. Either side nominating a woman as a "ploy" to get woman voters is essentially stupid as such a thing is undoubtably not going to work. However, it's entirely reasonable and in line with...well...EVERYTHING political campaigns do...to factor in the political strategy of how it can affect things. While there may have been people who voted for Barack Obama's ticket literally JUST because he was black, and there may've been some who voted for McCain's ticket literally JUST because Palin was a female, the reality is few people really vote for such singular issues. Even in the cases where they're voting becuase "he's black" or "she's a woman", often its not even the sex and gender itself but rather the assumption that someone with that similarity to you may better understand your views or fight for your views due to that connectoin...same thing why non-Christians have a hard time doing well in these kind of things, just kind of in the opposite.

So to call it a "ploy" I think is incorrect and even more degrading to Rice, as it suggests that somehow the vast amount of factors that play into the political reasons for her choice and the practical reason for why she's a good choice are irrelevant or somehow secondary to the fact that "HEY! SHE HAS BOOBIES!". Claiming her selectoin is simply a "ploy" to get women's voters wittles her down to nothing but a puppet, acting like her plethora of accomplishments both in government, education, and the private sector are non-existant and the only reason she could possibly be selected is because of what's between her legs.

To me, it seems either insulting and belittling to her, suggesting there's no other reaosn why she'd possibly be chosen...OR...it's insulting and condescending to conservatives at large suggesting that there's no reason why they would choose a woman to be VP, regardless of her qualifications, save to act as a "ploy" for the women's vote.

Rice's sterling amount of experience internationally, and specifically with regards to intelligence and defense related foreign policy, is something I imagine would be viewed by a political campaign as a far more valuable asset political than her gender, or her ethnicity.
 
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Was Obama a "ploy" to garner a higher percentage of the black vote?

Talk about damned if you do, damned if you don't. Republicans get talked about being the party of "Old White Men" yet whenever they do anything that clashes with that negative stereotype its immedietely suggested and assumed by those on the left to be a "ploy", a "token", or any other such thing. However if they choose a "Old White Guy" then they get slammed.

She's got national expsoure, great foreign policy experience, solid conservative credentials, and smarts. From a political science stand point does her demographical exposure possibly come into play? Absolutely. So did Joe Biden's in 2008 when Barack Obama chose an "old white guy" to be his VP over another minority candidate in Hillary. However I don't think that was a "ploy" by Obama, nor do I think this would be a "ploy" by Romney.

It absolutely was a ploy by Obama to bolster a perceived weakness in foreign policy/national security.

Every candidate picks a VP based on ploys.....Romney's pick will be no different.
 
...Rice's sterling amount of experience internationally, and specifically with regards to intelligence and defense related foreign policy, is something I imagine would be viewed by a political campaign as a far more valuable asset political than her gender, or her ethnicity.
Just this phrase. How many people actually really get beyond this point to examine her credentials. There are many people who vote only a specific way no matter what the issues are. I have known people who would only vote for anti-choice candidates. That was all they cared about. The average voter does not do a lot of research no matter what side of the fence they're on.
 
Well, I can think of two things that make it highly unlikely. One of which is that she has not only a BA degree, but a masters and a doctorate. Those things don't play well with those who are suspicious of anybody with an education.
 
I agree with you. Under different circumstances I would not see this pick in that way. I think the polls showing that the republican party is not do well with women voters adds a great deal to the way I perceive this.

Honest question here, not snarky but rather I just couldn't find them when I looked....what polls show this?

I've seen polls showing Mitt Romney compared to Obama, but not Democrats compraed to Republicans. While Mitt is doing worse than McCain was in 08, it's only by about 5 points different...hardly a giant gap. Republicans have traditionally done worse with females then the Democrats. But I've just not found anything showing the favorability gap between the Democratic Party and Republican Party right now with regards to gender to see if there's been some kind of significant change from normal right now.

I actually didn't think the Palin selection was playing to the women's vote. I saw that as trying to bring in a fresh face with the run of the mill McCain who had been recycled many times. I think Palin was a face that could relate to the hard core conservative.

I agree here. Politically speaking McCain needed someone who could 1) Excite the base 2) Have a good conservative record 3) Countered the "historic" and "outsider" nature of Obama's campaign. Palin did that.

This looks different to me because the women are not rushing to the door for Romney.

Here's where I disagree. Women aren't rushing the door for Romney...but they weren't really for McCain. I believe at this point McCain was at a 14 point gap for favorability, and Romney's at a 20. That's a 6 point different between where McCain was at this time in 08 AND Romney is now. You COULD say "WOW! Romney's doing much worse with Women then McCain". However, that'd be premature. In 08 McCain had a +2 rating over Obama with men, where as Romney has a -3 right now. What's that mean? In 2012, Romney is 5 points lower than McCain was in 2008.

So there's only a 1 point difference between how Romney's doing compared to McCain 4 years ago in terms of women to men. That suggests to me that the Republicans aren't doing any worse specifically with WOMEN right now then they 4 years ago....it suggests to me that in general, the incumbent is doing better in favorability across the board then he was 4 years ago.

I think on the other hand it is a good pick as she could split up the black vote as well. I would not vote for any candidate based solely on gender. A man or woman who seems capable of doing the job is the to vote for.

I think she could help a BIT with the black vote, but I would still be shocked if it’s not 90% of higher for the Democrats still. And I actually think that most people won’t vote for a candidate based on gender or race or anything else…not solely on that. I think though there are some who take it into account largely based on the notion that “I can relate to this person through [x] similarity and therefore I think they will do right by me because we’re similar”. I think this happens regardless of if it’s a strong Christian, someone who strongly identifies with their gender, or someone who strongly pushes themselves as a proponent of their race.
 
I can't say I support Rices policies in the slightest, but it downright wrong to claim she is just a token attempt to grab women/minority support. She has more executive experience than Romney himself and is unquestionably qualified to hold the position of president, much less vice president. She is the polar opposite of Palin in terms of her credentials and capabilities. Her actions define who she is, not her gender or the color of her skin.
 
There is no doubt that Condi Rice would add a massive jolt to the ticket.

Definitely bring in many independents and moderates.

However I think the base might have a few issues with this:

Condoleezza Rice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rice said "If you go back to 2000 when I helped the president in the campaign. I said that I was, in effect, kind of libertarian on this issue. And meaning by that, that I have been concerned about a government role in this issue. I am a strong proponent of parental choice—of parental notification. I am a strong proponent of a ban on late-term abortion. These are all things that I think unite people and I think that that's where we should be. I've called myself at times mildly pro-choice."[90] She would not want the federal government "forcing its views on one side or the other."[91]
 
It absolutely was a ploy by Obama to bolster a perceived weakness in foreign policy/national security.

Every candidate picks a VP based on ploys.....Romney's pick will be no different.

Perhaps this is me disagreeing with the political implications of the use of "ploy", and could be due to my political science background.

Yes, every political campaign strategizes and takes actions based on strategy. Demographical benefits, be it due to geography, class, race, sex, religion, age, interests, etc are definitely taken into consideration. To not do so would be foolhearty. However, to me, to suggest that a pick is a "ploy" specifically to win over a specific voting block it implies that the individual is chosen singularly due to that particular characteristic and that otherwise they would have no use in being picked.

Looking at Biden for example...

Does the fact that you're choosing a "White" guy perhaps help a bit with demographics? Sure. However, I wouldn't call his choice a "ploy" to get the white vote because there are far more, and some better, reasons to go with him. Equal to the "white" guy was the fact he's viewed as somewhat of a "rural" and "Country" guy, with Pennsylvania where he grew up being viewed more as a "rural" country area than a "north eastern" type of location. Biden also chaired the Senate committee on foreign relations, shoring up a weak point in Obama's experience portfolio. Speaking of experience, that was another weak spot of Obama's. Biden has over 30 years as Senator. There were numerous reasons why Biden made a good running mate to pick for Obama beyond his race, and while it may've and most likely did play into the consideration I think to call it a "ploy" for the white vote to be a gross over statement.
 
I wouldn't be opposed to her but she already said she isn't interested. Second choice was Santorum, but no chance in hell. Third was a tie and I'd be happy with Christie, but who knows?
 
Just this phrase. How many people actually really get beyond this point to examine her credentials. There are many people who vote only a specific way no matter what the issues are. I have known people who would only vote for anti-choice candidates. That was all they cared about. The average voter does not do a lot of research no matter what side of the fence they're on.

Oh, I agree with that. But again, there are a number of tick off's on Rice beyond just her sex that could factor in here. Her connection to the Bush Administration, which is well liked by the single issue pro-life people, will help Romney who was kind of iffy with them but was enough that pro-abortoin peope (you want to use that stupid **** terminology, I'll happily throw it right back) wouldn't vote for him anyways. Yeah, VOTERS may not look beyond whatever particular pet issues they may have...but those who are making the choices absolutely are.
 
Honest question here, not snarky but rather I just couldn't find them when I looked....what polls show this?

I've seen polls showing Mitt Romney compared to Obama, but not Democrats compraed to Republicans. While Mitt is doing worse than McCain was in 08, it's only by about 5 points different...hardly a giant gap. Republicans have traditionally done worse with females then the Democrats. But I've just not found anything showing the favorability gap between the Democratic Party and Republican Party right now with regards to gender to see if there's been some kind of significant change from normal right now.



I agree here. Politically speaking McCain needed someone who could 1) Excite the base 2) Have a good conservative record 3) Countered the "historic" and "outsider" nature of Obama's campaign. Palin did that.



Here's where I disagree. Women aren't rushing the door for Romney...but they weren't really for McCain. I believe at this point McCain was at a 14 point gap for favorability, and Romney's at a 20. That's a 6 point different between where McCain was at this time in 08 AND Romney is now. You COULD say "WOW! Romney's doing much worse with Women then McCain". However, that'd be premature. In 08 McCain had a +2 rating over Obama with men, where as Romney has a -3 right now. What's that mean? In 2012, Romney is 5 points lower than McCain was in 2008.

So there's only a 1 point difference between how Romney's doing compared to McCain 4 years ago in terms of women to men. That suggests to me that the Republicans aren't doing any worse specifically with WOMEN right now then they 4 years ago....it suggests to me that in general, the incumbent is doing better in favorability across the board then he was 4 years ago.



I think she could help a BIT with the black vote, but I would still be shocked if it’s not 90% of higher for the Democrats still. And I actually think that most people won’t vote for a candidate based on gender or race or anything else…not solely on that. I think though there are some who take it into account largely based on the notion that “I can relate to this person through [x] similarity and therefore I think they will do right by me because we’re similar”. I think this happens regardless of if it’s a strong Christian, someone who strongly identifies with their gender, or someone who strongly pushes themselves as a proponent of their race.

One of the polls was from the Washington post the other I do not recall. I will attempt to locate them. I do not know whether is shows that Republicans any worse off with women than they were last time. I just recall that it article also said Romney was well behind in the women's vote. I can't tell you if it is worse than McCain.
Blacks have usually voted heavily for Democrats. A black candidate could help with this to a small degree.
What I see from Rice is this. She reaches states that Republicans would more than likely get already. She does not add states the Republicans don't have. She will not turn NY, IL and so on into R states. I person like Christie seems like a pick that could reach votes in a region that would play hard to the Republicans. Rice has not been a candidate. She is associated with Bush and the Democrats will certainly use that in the states they own. It will hold them. Romney is not a strong candidate and Rice overwhelms him. I can't see any reason to pick her that benefits beyond Gender and Race. I could be way off course here.
To me if I were the Republican candidate I would go with someone who could really help and I think Christie is far better for than Rice.

You and I both know the selection of a VP is to help bring in some votes you might not get otherwise. When I say that I mean states. Adding to the margin in Alabama Louisiana and so on does not add electoral votes. Adding Christie could add a state New Jersey to the column. It may even soften other voters in other states. Rice adds nothing except foreign policy experience. Her selection will not add votes.
 
Boy she is a very interesting pick and would bring a lot to the ticket.


Poll: Condi Rice tops GOP VP list - Darius Dixon - POLITICO.com


Condoleezza Rice tops the vice presidential wish list among Republicans and right-leaning independents, according to the poll Wednesday. Twenty-six percent of those polled backed the former national security adviser and secretary of state under George W. Bush as Romney’s No. 2. (Rice has repeatedly said she’s not interested in the job.)


Read more: Poll: Condi Rice tops GOP VP list - Darius Dixon - POLITICO.com


Got no problem with Ms. Rice. She does have executive experience.
 
There is no doubt that Condi Rice would add a massive jolt to the ticket.

Definitely bring in many independents and moderates.

However I think the base might have a few issues with this:

Condoleezza Rice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh jet....when you give us links, we can go and actually look at them. What you failed to post from the very same section, very next paragraph:

Rice said she believes President Bush "has been in exactly the right place" on abortion, "which is we have to respect the culture of life and we have to try and bring people to have respect for it and make this as rare a circumstance as possible" However, she added that she has been "concerned about a government role" but has "tended to agree with those who do not favor federal funding for abortion, because I believe that those who hold a strong moral view on the other side should not be forced to fund" the procedure

Her close ties with the Bush Administration, which was viewed in a good light by most pro-lifers, would likely help out greatly save for those that research the issue. Even then, you've got someone whose basically taking the social conservative libertarian view point of it which is that we should work to discourage it, we shouldn't federally fund it, and it's not a good thing, but ultimately the federal government shouldn't explicitely be banning it.

Had she not been tied to the Bush Administration, and wasn't able to state that she believes Bush was in exactly the right place when it comes to abortion, perhaps what you posted would be an issue. Based on the second paragraph you left off though, I doubt it'll have much of an issue with the base.
 
It may even soften other voters in other states. Rice adds nothing except foreign policy experience. Her selection will not add votes.

I disagree with you on a number of things here but we'll just go round and round on it (Such as Florida and VA both being southern swing states). I will say I'm not saying that someone like Christie wouldn't be a good option or perhaps even better option. They both add different things to the ticket to be sure. However, I think Christie's even less likely to take it than Rice.
 
Oh, I agree with that. But again, there are a number of tick off's on Rice beyond just her sex that could factor in here. Her connection to the Bush Administration, which is well liked by the single issue pro-life people, will help Romney who was kind of iffy with them but was enough that pro-abortoin peope (you want to use that stupid **** terminology, I'll happily throw it right back) wouldn't vote for him anyways. Yeah, VOTERS may not look beyond whatever particular pet issues they may have...but those who are making the choices absolutely are.
I chose the abortion issue because i knew someone who absolutely voted that way no matter what. I don't think Rice adds to the strength of the ticket at all. I think she hurts it more. She certainly will draw a more conservative vote which Romney has a hard time with. Being linked to Bush will hurt. She has no base in any states that Romney will not already get. Those independents who were not in favor of the Bush foreign policy may well run the other direction. Maybe my initial reaction was stated to strongly but I can only see her gender and race as a halfway decent reason to select her. I just don't think she helps all that much. Also she might well make Romney look weak. She is really dynamic and he is not.
 
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