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Dishonest Campaign Rhetoric on The HealthCare Crisis

PW4000

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Dishonest Campaign Rhetoric on The HealthCare Crisis


The Rhetoric:

Can anyone explain what Mitt Romney, is talking about when he says that President Obama doesn't understand Healthcare? When I listen to Mitt, speak - I often wonder to whom is he speaking?

The extreme politicization of the healthcare emergency in this country, is one of the primary causes for the gross misunderstanding the majority of Americans have about the real underlying factors that have created the emergency. Politicians, prey on that ignorance and then literally lie their way through campaigns in order to rack-up delegates. In the meantime, the United States economy continues to suffer under the most inefficient and ineffective healthcare system, of all the wealthiest nations on earth. The United States of America, is the ONLY country (among the wealthiest countries in the world) that spends the most on healthcare, while failing miserably to insure its Citizenry. The fact that we do not cover all of our Citizens, is an abomination and antithetical to common sense, decency, civility and morality.

We can do better.


The Problem:

I've seen and read most of the threads that attempt to discuss this matter. Most all of them approach the issue from a purely partisan and/or political point of view. Yet, I have not seen many threads that discuss the real issues behind the continued failure of our nation's healthcare system. People have decided to take the matter all the way to the United States Supreme Court. But, why? Why put such a matter in the court system, when there were plenty of opportunities to hash-out a fair system, within the four walls of the United States Congress. This issue is NOT going to be resolved in the court room. This issue, like it or not, will be resolved in the Congress.

We can pretend that we can afford to continue spending a projected 1/3 of our national GDP on a broken healthcare system, or we can get about the business of rescuing this country from permanent economic disaster, by reducing our aggregate costs to the insured, engaging more people in the system, thereby increasing real competition among providers and taking preventative care and treatment seriously. None of which we do very effectively today, and our completely out of control costs demonstrate that fact. How many American Citizens have taken the time to truly educate themselves about the real reasons behind our healthcare crisis? Precious few. Yet, these very same people, election cycle after election cycle, will allow themselves to be the target of pandering by politicians who lie to them about the matter at every turn.


Potential Solutions:

You might not like the Nordic approach to providing healthcare for its Citizens, but can you intelligently argue that it does not work?

How about the U.K./British model? Do they pay more per capita to provide healthcare? Yes, they do. Is everyone (and I mean everyone) covered under their system? Yes, they are. Do they get more bang for the buck (increase coverage levels at reduced [overall] rates)? Yes, they do. Do they have real choice? Yes, they do? Are they one of the world's largest economies? Yes, they are. So, what the heck is wrong with us? Why can't we get American Citizens covered, like they do in England? Why do we have so many uninsured and under-insured, working American Citizens? I'm not talking about those without jobs, without income and without any visibility on the horizon for healthcare. I'm talking about working Americans, whether part-time or full-time.

Our national GDP is projected to reach $14 trillion not too far from now. Our national healthcare expenditures (public and private sector costs) in 2010, were $2.6 trillion (18% of GDP). We are rapidly approaching 33% GDP, and some estimate that the current course the United States of America finds itself on, will result in our nation spending upwards of 50% GDP on healthcare. That's projected to be more than $7 trillion.

This is unacceptable by any and every definition of the word. No human being, dead or alive, could or can, justify such an overwhelmingly extreme ratio of wealth transference, for the sole purpose of providing healthcare coverage. We rank dead last among the wealthiest nations on earth, in terms of providing adequate care at an effective cost to our Citizens. We spend more than any other developed (wealthy) nation on earth per capita, and we yield one of the lowest effective target scores for resultant benefits to the patient on a YoY basis. We are literally driving our economy over a cliff, YoY - while politicians in Congress continue to play to the healthcare lobbies. All the while, the typical (average) U.S. Citizen, simply does not understand how the current system works and/or WHY that system is failing to produce adequate results.

We have a broken healthcare super-structure and all some people can manage to do, is "Just Say No" to correcting the problem, and throwing the entire matter through the Supreme Court, as if that is somehow the proper way to engage and resolve the matter in a civilized fashion. The current system does not work for the The People, and it has only worked successfully for the Insurance Companies, their congressional lobbyists and the Congressional representatives who benefit each election cycle, from the support that those lobbyists and insurance companies provide.

This country needs a brand new system of healthcare - not a rehashing, or remaking of the current system. One that covers everyone, reduces overall costs, increases overall competition, provides genuine options and choices to the insured, and that won't continually break new records as a ratio of national GDP. It is a complex problem to solve, but it is NOT an insoluble problem and it does have a solution.


The Current Path:

Some people might not like the current President, but make no mistake about it - this President has been handed broken down Chevy, and tasked with the responsibility of turning it into a Motor City revolution. He's been handed the worst economic depression since 1929/1932, the absolute worst drain on American jobs, since the Great Depression, the highest increase and fastest rising fuel prices since the OPEC lead oil compression of the 1970's, and he's had to effectively develop a plan to handle two (2) concurrent wars. Yet somehow, this President was able to focus the country on the single most important economic drain on our economy: HealthCare.

The current path towards a final solution may not be perfect (indeed it is not), but at least such a path does now exist, where it absolutely did not before and this President deserves the full recognition for that achievement. He got the ball rolling at a national level for the first time in U.S. History. Many Presidents have tried - all have failed. You cannot continue to grow our economy, while spending 17-33 percent of GDP on healthcare.

When this President attempted to work with Republicans on the sum and substance of the problem, he was summarily rejected by both Republican leaders in the House and Senate. He was constantly belittled, for even contemplating a solution to such a complex problem, and that ridicule came primarily from Republicans in the House, as if they had no concept or clue about the hugely important long-range economic impact that our current failed system would have on our dive bombing economy, in a post-2008 world.


We Have Choices. The Door is Open:

Single Payer is an option and what the President has done, makes the discussion of Single Payer, even more realistic to those who genuinely understand what Single "Payor," truly means. The President never intended to put forth the be-all-end-all to our healthcare woes, because he knew the complexity of the problem would extend from State-to-State. However, he got a fundamental framework for change implemented, leaving the delivery mechanisms left for the States to decide. Will Single Payer emerge as the final solution? I certainly hope so, because it is the most realistic method for lowering costs and providing coverage for all U.S. Citizens.

We need to look at the various Nordic solutions and implementations in European countries, without constantly throwing-up useless rhetoric about subjects that were force-fed through our television screens regarding how these systems work. That means everybody has to do their homework. We have the choice of picking apart the best elements of these systems and then tailoring solutions to meet our nation's specific needs. This link is an outstanding overview to study: http://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/98417/E93429.pdf.

Educate yourself, so that when a politician tells you that Socialized Medicine, means a "government take-over" of healthcare, or that "death panels" will determine whether or not your Grandmother lives or dies, or that the cost of your medications will go through the roof, if implemented, you can look that same politician in the eye and KNOW (not guess) that they are flat out lying to you - and that such a politician takes you for an absolute fool.

The choice belongs to the American People. This President has been highly successful in opening the door of change on our healthcare crisis, but he cannot complete the task by himself. If you fail to educate yourself, and continue to be pushed around by the empty rhetoric of those wishing to maintain the status quo, then you will have no one to blame but yourselves - not this President, and not ANY President who comes down the pipeline in the future. The door is now open for change - that's been done for you by this President. However, YOU must decide to walk through that door and participate on the construction of the kind of healthcare system that you want for yourself and for your family.

We can sit here and continue to play games with this issue, folks. We can play around the political hot buttons and engage in useless rhetoric and campaign sloganeering, as we dance to avoid the real discussion about the real nexus between where we are today economically, how we got here, and were we will end up economically if we don't solve this problem RIGHT NOW. But, that will only guarantee that we end up in a worse condition economically, than we find ourselves today.

My suggestion is that everyone get on-board the Solution Finding Train, and off-board the Finger Pointing Train. You START that process by educating yourself about the subject matter. There are systems around this world that DO work. We are no less capable of designing, building and maintaining a system of our own, that works for the American People.

The door is now wide open for change and the choices are ours to make. Get educated, get involved and by all means get out of the business of politicizing this very serious health and economic crisis now facing this country.
 
Last edited:
Dishonest Campaign Rhetoric on The HealthCare Crisis


The Rhetoric:

Can anyone explain what Mitt Romney, is talking about when he says that President Obama doesn't understand Healthcare? When I listen to Mitt, speak - I often wonder to whom is he speaking?

The extreme politicization of the healthcare emergency in this country, is one of the primary causes for the gross misunderstanding the majority of Americans have about the real underlying factors that have created the emergency. Politicians, prey on that ignorance and then literally lie their way through campaigns in order to rack-up delegates. In the meantime, the United States economy continues to suffer under the most inefficient and ineffective healthcare system, of all the wealthiest nations on earth. The United States of America, is the ONLY country (among the wealthiest countries in the world) that spends the most on healthcare, while failing miserably to insure its Citizenry. The fact that we do not cover all of our Citizens, is an abomination and antithetical to common sense, decency, civility and morality.

We can do better.


The Problem:

I've seen and read most of the threads that attempt to discuss this matter. Most all of them approach the issue from a purely partisan and/or political point of view. Yet, I have not seen many threads that discuss the real issues behind the continued failure of our nation's healthcare system. People have decided to take the matter all the way to the United States Supreme Court. But, why? Why put such a matter in the court system, when there were plenty of opportunities to hash-out a fair system, within the four walls of the United States Congress. This issue is NOT going to be resolved in the court room. This issue, like it or not, will be resolved in the Congress.

We can pretend that we can afford to continue spending a projected 1/3 of our national GDP on a broken healthcare system, or we can get about the business of rescuing this country from permanent economic disaster, by reducing our aggregate costs to the insured, engaging more people in the system, thereby increasing real competition among providers and taking preventative care and treatment seriously. None of which we do very effectively today, and our completely out of control costs demonstrate that fact. How many American Citizens have taken the time to truly educate themselves about the real reasons behind our healthcare crisis? Precious few. Yet, these very same people, election cycle after election cycle, will allow themselves to be the target of pandering by politicians who lie to them about the matter at every turn.


Potential Solutions:

You might not like the Nordic approach to providing healthcare for its Citizens, but can you intelligently argue that it does not work?

How about the U.K./British model? Do they pay more per capita to provide healthcare? Yes, they do. Is everyone (and I mean everyone) covered under their system? Yes, they are. Do they get more bang for the buck (increase coverage levels at reduced [overall] rates)? Yes, they do. Do they have real choice? Yes, they do? Are they one of the world's largest economies? Yes, they are. So, what the heck is wrong with us? Why can't we get American Citizens covered, like they do in England? Why do we have so many uninsured and under-insured, working American Citizens? I'm not talking about those without jobs, without income and without any visibility on the horizon for healthcare. I'm talking about working Americans, whether part-time or full-time.

Our national GDP is projected to reach $14 trillion not too far from now. Our national healthcare expenditures (public and private sector costs) in 2010, were $2.6 trillion (18% of GDP). We are rapidly approaching 33% GDP, and some estimate that the current course the United States of America finds itself on, will result in our nation spending upwards of 50% GDP on healthcare. That's projected to be more than $7 trillion.

This is unacceptable by any and every definition of the word. No human being, dead or alive, could or can, justify such an overwhelmingly extreme ratio of wealth transference, for the sole purpose of providing healthcare coverage. We rank dead last among the wealthiest nations on earth, in terms of providing adequate care at an effective cost to our Citizens. We spend more than any other developed (wealthy) nation on earth per capita, and we yield one of the lowest effective target scores for resultant benefits to the patient on a YoY basis. We are literally driving our economy over a cliff, YoY - while politicians in Congress continue to play to the healthcare lobbies. All the while, the typical (average) U.S. Citizen, simply does not understand how the current system works and/or WHY that system is failing to produce adequate results.

We have a broken healthcare super-structure and all some people can manage to do, is "Just Say No" to correcting the problem, and throwing the entire matter through the Supreme Court, as if that is somehow the proper way to engage and resolve the matter in a civilized fashion. The current system does not work for the The People, and it has only worked successfully for the Insurance Companies, their congressional lobbyists and the Congressional representatives who benefit each election cycle, from the support that those lobbyists and insurance companies provide.

This country needs a brand new system of healthcare - not a rehashing, or remaking of the current system. One that covers everyone, reduces overall costs, increases overall competition, provides genuine options and choices to the insured, and that won't continually break new records as a ratio of national GDP. It is a complex problem to solve, but it is NOT an insoluble problem and it does have a solution.


The Current Path:

Some people might not like the current President, but make no mistake about it - this President has been handed broken down Chevy, and tasked with the responsibility of turning it into a Motor City revolution. He's been handed the worst economic depression since 1929/1932, the absolute worst drain on American jobs, since the Great Depression, the highest increase and fastest rising fuel prices since the OPEC lead oil compression of the 1970's, and he's had to effectively develop a plan to handle two (2) concurrent wars. Yet somehow, this President was able to focus the country on the single most important economic drain on our economy: HealthCare.

The current path towards a final solution may not be perfect (indeed it is not), but at least such a path does now exist, where it absolutely did not before and this President deserves the full recognition for that achievement. He got the ball rolling at a national level for the first time in U.S. History. Many Presidents have tried - all have failed. You cannot continue to grow our economy, while spending 17-33 percent of GDP on healthcare.

When this President attempted to work with Republicans on the sum and substance of the problem, he was summarily rejected by both Republican leaders in the House and Senate. He was constantly belittled, for even contemplating a solution to such a complex problem, and that ridicule came primarily from Republicans in the House, as if they had no concept or clue about the hugely important long-range economic impact that our current failed system would have on our dive bombing economy, in a post-2008 world.


We Have Choices. The Door is Open:

Single Payer is an option and what the President has done, makes the discussion of Single Payer, even more realistic to those who genuinely understand what Single "Payor," truly means. The President never intended to put forth the be-all-end-all to our healthcare woes, because he knew the complexity of the problem would extend from State-to-State. However, he got a fundamental framework for change implemented, leaving the delivery mechanisms left for the States to decide. Will Single Payer emerge as the final solution? I certainly hope so, because it is the most realistic method for lowering costs and providing coverage for all U.S. Citizens.

We need to look at the various Nordic solutions and implementations in European countries, without constantly throwing-up useless rhetoric about subjects that were force-fed through our television screens regarding how these systems work. That means everybody has to do their homework. We have the choice of picking apart the best elements of these systems and then tailoring solutions to meet our nation's specific needs. This link is an outstanding overview to study: http://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/98417/E93429.pdf.

Educate yourself, so that when a politician tells you that Socialized Medicine, means a "government take-over" of healthcare, or that "death panels" will determine whether or not your Grandmother lives or dies, or that the cost of your medications will go through the roof, if implemented, you can look that same politician in the eye and KNOW (not guess) that they are flat out lying to you - and that such a politician takes you for an absolute fool.

The choice belongs to the American People. This President has been highly successful in opening the door of change on our healthcare crisis, but he cannot complete the task by himself. If you fail to educate yourself, and continue to be pushed around by the empty rhetoric of those wishing to maintain the status quo, then you will have no one to blame but yourselves - not this President, and not ANY President who comes down the pipeline in the future. The door is now open for change - that's been done for you by this President. However, YOU must decide to walk through that door and participate on the construction of the kind of healthcare system that you want for yourself and for your family.

We can sit here and continue to play games with this issue, folks. We can play around the political hot buttons and engage in useless rhetoric and campaign sloganeering, as we dance to avoid the real discussion about the real nexus between where we are today economically, how we got here, and were we will end up economically if we don't solve this problem RIGHT NOW. But, that will only guarantee that we end up in a worse condition economically, than we find ourselves today.

My suggestion is that everyone get on-board the Solution Finding Train, and off-board the Finger Pointing Train. You START that process by educating yourself about the subject matter. There are systems around this world that DO work. We are no less capable of designing, building and maintaining a system of our own, that works for the American People.

The door is now wide open for change and the choices are ours to make. Get educated, get involved and by all means get out of the business of politicizing this very serious health and economic crisis now facing this country.

Does anyone else find the first first and last paragraphs of this thread either ironic or outright dishonest.

In the first paragraph you attack the Republican candidate as not knowing what he is talking about and then in the last paragraph which asks to keep politics out!!!

It would be great to have an HONEST discussion but not with someone who starts an apolitical thread by making political attacks.
 
Does anyone else find the first first and last paragraphs of this thread either ironic or outright dishonest.

In the first paragraph you attack the Republican candidate as not knowing what he is talking about and then in the last paragraph which asks to keep politics out!!!

It would be great to have an HONEST discussion but not with someone who starts an apolitical thread by making political attacks.

Yeah, it is a very long winded partisan post.
 
Does anyone else find the first first and last paragraphs of this thread either ironic or outright dishonest.

In the first paragraph you attack the Republican candidate as not knowing what he is talking about and then in the last paragraph which asks to keep politics out!!!

It would be great to have an HONEST discussion but not with someone who starts an apolitical thread by making political attacks.


Is this a rebuttal, concurrence, or a non-sequitur reply?

The very thing that sparked my motivation for this thread, was Mitt Romney's continual persistence on telling lies about the current healthcare crisis, while never once admitting his views are really not that much different than the current President. So, if my pointing that fact out for you, constitutes and/or qualifies as "ironic," then anything I would ever post (in your mind) would be subject to the label of "irony."

Quite possibly your speed reading skills caused you to miss the real point of the thread - which is clearly spelled out in the latter sections.

Translation = Whatever.
 
Yeah, it is a very long winded partisan post.

Or, a post that you did not read and thus, cannot comment on.

Either way, its your country and your healthcare system. You can continue to blow money down the insurance company pipeline if you so desire, but it certainly won't pull this economy up by its bootstraps either. As the twin deficits continue to grow, you'll probably end up being prime mind-share targets for those who spew propaganda on the subject, snowing you over with Grand Mama's Gonna Die false rhetoric and death panel disclaimers, as the country spends itself into oblivion - with your perpetual vote in rank and file tow.

Romney, is on the campaign trail right now, lying about healthcare and Obama's role in it. That's a fact, but it does not deter me from wanting to learn and understand the truth about what any politician has to say about healthcare. The other inconvenient truth for some people, is that President Obama, has indeed done the right thing by finally (after all these years) placing the matter front and center before the American People, such that the issue can never be simply swept under the rug until the next election cycle.

By doing that, he's forcing change, where change is needed. Whether American Citizens get on-board with the economic reality that the current system must be changed, is up for the People to decide. They proclaimed to the entire world four years ago, that they wanted change. But, when they had the opportunity to get behind change, they somehow forgot what they proclaimed with their lips.

In some places, they call that Lip Service.
 
Is this a rebuttal, concurrence, or a non-sequitur reply?

The very thing that sparked my motivation for this thread, was Mitt Romney's continual persistence on telling lies about the current healthcare crisis, while never once admitting his views are really not that much different than the current President. So, if my pointing that fact out for you, constitutes and/or qualifies as "ironic," then anything I would ever post (in your mind) would be subject to the label of "irony."

Quite possibly your speed reading skills caused you to miss the real point of the thread - which is clearly spelled out in the latter sections.

Translation = Whatever.

Here's is some "truth" to ponder:

ObamaCare is RomneyCare version 2.0.

Romney is in no position to criticize ObamaCare.

Romney should not be the GOP nominee.

If Romney wanted to be president, he should have run in the Democratic primary.
 
Or, a post that you did not read and thus, cannot comment on.

Lame.

That's a fact, but it does not deter me from wanting to learn and understand the truth about what any politician has to say about healthcare.

As long as you never learn the lies this administration has put forth WRT healthcare. Right?

The other inconvenient truth for some people,

...is that most Americans already knew the system had issues that needed to be addressed. But what came before that issue, was the economy and jobs. So what did this administration do? Forge forward on a secondary issue (to the people), and left a lot of Americans suffering.
 
Is this a rebuttal, concurrence, or a non-sequitur reply?

The very thing that sparked my motivation for this thread, was Mitt Romney's continual persistence on telling lies about the current healthcare crisis, while never once admitting his views are really not that much different than the current President. So, if my pointing that fact out for you, constitutes and/or qualifies as "ironic," then anything I would ever post (in your mind) would be subject to the label of "irony."

Quite possibly your speed reading skills caused you to miss the real point of the thread - which is clearly spelled out in the latter sections.

Translation = Whatever.


OK how about incoherent. Trying to compare Norway, a nation of under 5 million to the U.S. is beyond naive.

I read enough, saying let congress figure it out. Hello, Obama with a democratic congress did pass a health care bill. One that well be unconstitutional and would probably bankrupt the nation.

Yes we have a number of problems in the current system, but I saw nothing of value.

Just because the posting is long does not mean it was well thought out.

Maybe take another try.
 
Is this a rebuttal, concurrence, or a non-sequitur reply?

The very thing that sparked my motivation for this thread, was Mitt Romney's continual persistence on telling lies about the current healthcare crisis, while never once admitting his views are really not that much different than the current President. So, if my pointing that fact out for you, constitutes and/or qualifies as "ironic," then anything I would ever post (in your mind) would be subject to the label of "irony."

Quite possibly your speed reading skills caused you to miss the real point of the thread - which is clearly spelled out in the latter sections.

Translation = Whatever.


OK how about incoherent. Trying to compare Norway, a nation of under 5 million to the U.S. is beyond naive.

I read enough, saying let congress figure it out. Hello, Obama with a democratic congress did pass a health care bill. One that well be unconstitutional and would probably bankrupt the nation.

Yes we have a number of problems in the current system, but I saw nothing of value.

Just because the posting is long does not mean it was well thought out.

Maybe take another try.
 
Thank you PW4000...for articulating our nation's reality!

If SCOTUS upholds it...then we'll hold the irresponsible opponents accountable.

If SCOTUS doesn't uphold it...then, despite sapping almost all our faith in democracy, we will hold irresponsible opponents accountable...and we'll prevail.
 
Here's is some "truth" to ponder:

ObamaCare is RomneyCare version 2.0.

Romney is in no position to criticize ObamaCare.

Romney should not be the GOP nominee.

If Romney wanted to be president, he should have run in the Democratic primary.


Thank you. Now, lets get down to some details.

When you toss out a label such as ObamaCare 2.0, what part of ObamaCare 2.0, do you disagree with?

- Do you disagree with covering all Legal American Citizens?
- Do you disagree with lowering overall costs?
- Do you disagree with increasing options for the insured?
- Do you disagree with eliminating exclusions for pre-existing people with conditions?
- Do you disagree with the economic theory that you cannot grow a nearly $14 trillion economy, by paying out a projected 33% of its GDP in healthcare costs?
- Do you agree with mandating coverage for all.

I agree with all of the above with one exception: Mandate Care Clauses. I don't like that. I don't that that fits who we are as Americans. I don't like the idea of the Government, or anybody else, telling me that I must do something. But, hold the presses. Because, that is exactly what my State Government does already with respect to my Auto Insurance. No, my State won't fine me for not having Auto Insurance, but my State Legislature has given the legal system carte blanche to fine me anyway it sees fit, if I cause an accident without having Auto Insurance. So, the net/net effect is just like a Mandate for Auto Insurance.

At some point, we The People, have to realize that we do (in fact) have a responsibility to each other. We have a responsibility to not become a liability to each other. When we walk around a contagious planet without any degree of regular and routine healthcare of some sort in our lives, we are more prone to becoming a financial liability on the rest of society, when we show-up in an Emergency Care Unit looking for the service that we should be getting from a Local Clinic, or our own Doctor's Office.

Emergency Units around the country today, are being used like regular and routine Doctor's Visits, and that is not just wrong and unnecessary, but it is one of the major cost factors that continually increases each and every years in the aggregate.

Ponder these questions carefully and reply skillfully, please.
 

Are you describing your first, or second post?


As long as you never learn the lies this administration has put forth WRT healthcare. Right?

And, which lie would that be, exactly? That Death Panels are NOT a part of National Healthcare? That the phrase Socialized Medicine, has become a a catchall for Do Absolutely Nothing Until Our Economy is Unrecoverable? That somehow the notion of not increasing competition, will equate to a reduction in your insurance premiums over time, or increase the choices you have "WRT" the kind, types and levels of treatment you can get? Or, that Grandma won't really be kicked off life support?

Exactly, which lie have I been suffering under all this time?

Have you studied this subject matter? Do you really understand what you are talking about, or are you spewing Fox News Talking Points? Did you actually READ the link I gave you on how National HealthCare CAN and DOES actually work for the people who support it? Or, did you opt for the Karl Rove, version of the same?

Help me understand your real insights into our HealthCare problems, so I can learn something from you, please. I'm eager to learn from you. You can teach me something about this subject, I am 100% certain.


...is that most Americans already knew the system had issues that needed to be addressed. But what came before that issue, was the economy and jobs. So what did this administration do? Forge forward on a secondary issue (to the people), and left a lot of Americans suffering.

Secondary issue? Is that what you know about the subject matter?

Most Americans, just like you, had no clue about the relative cost of HealthCare on a national scale, with respect to our GDP. How do we know that for a fact? Because, if they did know that we were spending a ludicrous 17% to a projected 33% or more on healthcare in this country, with respect to our national GDP, then most American should have been Marching On Washington for someone on Capital Hill to immediately address the Economic Crisis! That is a crisis, if I've seen one. We cannot afford where most sane Economists tell us we are headed, which is nearly 50% of GDP!

It does not matter what kind of Economy you have, good, bad, or indifferent, you cannot continue to drain your economy with such exorbitant HealthCare costs. It would exceed every single national cost factor in existence, by huge margins. It would make the Insurance Companies Google rich, while your annual costs for healthcare as a percentage of your annual income, would approach and then EXCEED your cost for Housing! That's nuts!

So, the best way to start the process of changing that (there goes that word change again, that so many people forgot about), is to actually DO SOMETHING about the cost of healthcare. And, you start that process by placing the matter on the front burner (not the back), and by passing legislation that starts to cover everyone and that starts to simplifies the process of how care is actually delivered to the patient/customer.

When you say the President has left people behind, I question whether or not you truly understood the economic realities behind spending 17-33 percent of the nation's annual gross domestic product on healthcare, without having some kind of plan in place to increase competition and lower costs. By going after healthcare, you help the American People, not hurt them.

These are the perpetual lies that have been told ever since this President took office. Deny and Lie. That has been the game plan of his detractors from the very start.
 
Here's yet another prime example of the need of some people, who want to Privatize Medicare, to offer nothing but obstruction and murky water, when it comes to the details of WHY privatization of Medicare makes more sense than a well funded public mandate. The author is Avik Roy, a contributor to FORBES:

Fareed Zakaria's Puzzling Take on Health Care in Britain, Taiwan, and Switzerland - Forbes.

Really? Was it puzzling or just reporting the facts as they were?

The insurance companies have an amazingly strong lobby, not just in Washington, but in the American Media as well. When we rarely get an unbiased looked into why the American Healthcare system is in such terrible condition, and a look at ways in which we might go about solving some our biggest problems with cost control and increased effectiveness of the care delivered to the patient and the insured, the insurance companies always find a way to counter that argument, by hosting someone to demonize Nordic systems and terrorize people with "rationed care" claims, or unsubstantiated claims of "sky-rocketing" costs for making decisions that have not even been made yet.

I mean, my goodness - we can all see the real cost of our own healthcare, but for someone to write a counter-hit piece like this, claiming that Great Britain has seen an outbreak of rationed care and huge waiting lines at hospitals, or that Switzerland and Taiwan have incurred gains in the effectiveness of the care they deliver to their Citizens, but an inordinate increase in costs and the assumption of debt in the form of "loans" used to pay for public healthcare; someone has to call the author onto the carpet and that is what I am doing right now.

This author is off base for a number of different reasons. He does not cite his source for Taiwan's increase in costs. Here merely labels it at 5-6 percent increase, but he never says over what period. A five to six percent increase over 10 years, is relatively small, given the huge gains in service delivery that Taiwan has seen since upgrading its public healthcare delivery systems.

He also makes no mention of how he obtained information from within Taiwan, about its assumption of public debt in the forum of loans! Who makes such loans anyway? Who is out there loaning money to the government of Taiwan, for the purpose of servicing healthcare costs? Is Taiwan, issuing public debt bonds for this? If so, why haven't I heard about them - I'm involved in the financial markets each every day, and have yet to hear of such debt instruments coming out of Taiwan. Fareed, on the other hand, had sources to back-up his statements and he took the cameras into Great Britain (as just one example) and interviewed people who actually work there within the system, including actual patients and customers of the healthcare system.

This all dovetails into the topic of this thread: Dishonest Campaign Rhetoric on The HealthCare Crisis. Apparently, Forbes, is even willing to extend that into Great Britain, Taiwan and Switzerland, just to make their point.

This is why it is so important for people to educate themselves on the matter, so that no pundit or politician can snow you under.
 
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Are you describing your first, or second post?

I am describing the 'you didn't read it' tactic you used...

And, which lie would that be, exactly? That Death Panels are NOT a part of National Healthcare?

That you see no lies coming from one side says just about all that needs to be said.

As for 'death panels': In a 'socialized' system, where everyone is covered, is health care rationed?

Have you studied this subject matter?

More of the normal tactics.

Did I study the subject matter? I *LIVE* the subject matter. The health care industry is how I take care of my family.

Help me understand your real insights into our HealthCare problems, so I can learn something from you, please. I'm eager to learn from you. You can teach me something about this subject, I am 100% certain.

Sarcasm does not suit you.


How do we know that for a fact? Because, if they did know that we were spending a ludicrous 17% to a projected 33% or more on healthcare in this country, with respect to our national GDP, then most American should have been Marching On Washington for someone on Capital Hill to immediately address the Economic Crisis!

So what we learn here, is that 'fact' is generated when people do not react in a manner you think they should.

And, you start that process by placing the matter on the front burner (not the back),

There is a difference between putting something on the front burner, and shoving legislation through a back door that those that voted for it never read, that radically changes the system.

I question whether or not you truly understood

I wouldn't expect less.
 
Here's is some "truth" to ponder:

ObamaCare is RomneyCare version 2.0.

Romney is in no position to criticize ObamaCare.

Romney should not be the GOP nominee.

If Romney wanted to be president, he should have run in the Democratic primary.

"... if you can't be with the one you love, then love the Mitt your with...."
 
Here's is some "truth" to ponder:

ObamaCare is RomneyCare version 2.0.

Romney is in no position to criticize ObamaCare.

Romney should not be the GOP nominee.

If Romney wanted to be president, he should have run in the Democratic primary.

that pesky tenth amendment is again perplexing to you
 
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