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Election 2012 - My rant

danarhea

danarhea

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Election 2012?

For me here is the deal. It's not Republican vs. Democrat. It's us (the people) vs. THEM (The Republicrats). Yea, the Republicrats. Their mascot should be a donkey's ass sticking out of an elephant's ass. As long as they keep us all fighting one another they win. But as soon as enough people tell them to **** off (And that means Romney and Santorum, as well as Obama), then we can begin to take our country back. And it won't happen until enough people see through all their bull**** and stop voting for these clowns year after year.

/rant

Discussion? :mrgreen:
 
danarhea said:
Election 2012?

For me here is the deal. It's not Republican vs. Democrat. It's us (the people) vs. THEM (The Republicrats). Yea, the Republicrats. Their mascot should be a donkey's ass sticking out of an elephant's ass. As long as they keep us all fighting one another they win. But as soon as enough people tell them to **** off (And that means Romney and Santorum, as well as Obama), then we can begin to take our country back. And it won't happen until enough people see through all their bull**** and stop voting for these clowns year after year.

/rant

Discussion? :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

I totally agree. But what do you propose ppl do? If enough ppl decide to vote 3rd party, the elite will screw us and give us 4 more years of Obama, even if we get a majority of votes. I say nothing will change until the 2 parties disastrous policies effect every single American. We will have to get mad enough to revolt; and it can't be a peaceful revolution, it must be violent. The elites will not give up power willingly. We need another 1776!
 
The Prophet said:
I totally agree. But what do you propose ppl do? If enough ppl decide to vote 3rd party, the elite will screw us and give us 4 more years of Obama, even if we get a majority of votes. I say nothing will change until the 2 parties disastrous policies effect every single American. We will have to get mad enough to revolt; and it can't be a peaceful revolution, it must be violent. The elites will not give up power willingly. We need another 1776!
Click to expand...

We are going to get another 4 years of Obama, regardless. In the future, Liberals as well as Conservatives are going to have to migrate to their own third parties, and vote against the status quo. In order to do that, they are going to have to think of themselves not as Republicans or Democrats, but as Americans, and kick their parties to the curb, thus putting country ahead of party.
 
i'm for as many political parties as possible.

a duopoly is not ideal.
 
danarhea said:
We are going to get another 4 years of Obama, regardless. In the future, Liberals as well as Conservatives are going to have to migrate to their own third parties, and vote against the status quo. In order to do that, they are going to have to think of themselves not as Republicans or Democrats, but as Americans, and kick their parties to the curb, thus putting country ahead of party.
Click to expand...

I'm not convinced that we will be able to survive another term of Obama. 1 of the first things on his to-do list upon re-election is amnesty. And if 10s of millions of illegals are now card-carrying Americans, they'll be instant Democratic voters. So we will have a much, much more difficult time in getting a 3rd party into office, let alone even forming one. I don't see any peaceful way out of this.
 
Helix said:
i'm for as many political parties as possible.

a duopoly is not ideal.
Click to expand...

A more parliamentary system as opposed to this winner take all one seems like a big improvement. It's fine if they caucus together most of the time, but having a choice besides "A or B" on every single issue, and having to support the A list or the B list... That sucks.
 
The Prophet said:
I'm not convinced that we will be able to survive another term of Obama. 1 of the first things on his to-do list upon re-election is amnesty. And if 10s of millions of illegals are now card-carrying Americans, they'll be instant Democratic voters. So we will have a much, much more difficult time in getting a 3rd party into office, let alone even forming one. I don't see any peaceful way out of this.
Click to expand...

Huh, I thought you were a libertarian?

"The 2004 [Libertarian] Platform called for "the elimination of all restrictions on immigration, the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered the country illegally".
 
AdamT said:
Huh, I thought you were a libertarian?

"The 2004 [Libertarian] Platform called for "the elimination of all restrictions on immigration, the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered the country illegally".
Click to expand...
Perhaps he wants to crack down on illegal immigration because most of them will not only consume more than they produce, but vote Democratic and thereby expand the welfare state even further.

That's my view of the issue, anyway.
 
Black_Zawisza said:
Perhaps he wants to crack down on illegal immigration because most of them will not only consume more than they produce, but vote Democratic and thereby expand the welfare state even further.

That's my view of the issue, anyway.
Click to expand...

Well, we know that they don't consume more than they produce, so the likely answer is that he's pandering to the right. Hard to get elected in Texas if you are really and truly a libertarian with respect to immigration!
 
AdamT said:
Well, we know that they don't consume more than they produce, so the likely answer is that he's pandering to the right. Hard to get elected in Texas if you are really and truly a libertarian with respect to immigration!
Click to expand...
They kinda do. :shrug:
 
That is the problem with a 2 party system in a electoral system that only works with first past the post.

If the US would change to a system of proportional representation, it would pave the way for more than a 2 party system. This would make elections more accessible, interesting and inclusive for people not who do not feel connected to the current political system.
 
danarhea said:
We are going to get another 4 years of Obama, regardless. In the future, Liberals as well as Conservatives are going to have to migrate to their own third parties, and vote against the status quo. In order to do that, they are going to have to think of themselves not as Republicans or Democrats, but as Americans, and kick their parties to the curb, thus putting country ahead of party.
Click to expand...

The parties combat that. They keep people so pissed at the other party that they never focus on their own party. Hell, these boards are a perfect example. You see any issue come up and Dems and Repubs flock to it and immediately attack the other side. They give you so many reasons to hate and fight the other side that people assume their side is great by default. Very few people see the problems with both parties.
 
To further my own point....

Quote Originally Posted by The Prophet View Post
I'm not convinced that we will be able to survive another term of Obama. 1 of the first things on his to-do list upon re-election is amnesty. And if 10s of millions of illegals are now card-carrying Americans, they'll be instant Democratic voters. So we will have a much, much more difficult time in getting a 3rd party into office, let alone even forming one. I don't see any peaceful way out of this.
Huh, I thought you were a libertarian?

"The 2004 [Libertarian] Platform called for "the elimination of all restrictions on immigration, the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered the country illegally".
Click to expand...

Look at prophet and adam go. Prophet is programmed to auto blame dems. And no matter what it is, Adam is programmed to defend. Pick another issue and they'll switch sides. Adam will do what his party says. Prophet will attack them every time. And the game continues.

(not just calling you two out. just using you as examples. millions of people do the same things. free thought is rare in politics these days)
 
danarhea said:
Election 2012?

For me here is the deal. It's not Republican vs. Democrat. It's us (the people) vs. THEM (The Republicrats). Yea, the Republicrats. Their mascot should be a donkey's ass sticking out of an elephant's ass. As long as they keep us all fighting one another they win. But as soon as enough people tell them to **** off (And that means Romney and Santorum, as well as Obama), then we can begin to take our country back. And it won't happen until enough people see through all their bull**** and stop voting for these clowns year after year.

/rant

Discussion? :mrgreen:
Click to expand...
Pretty much how I have been feeling since 06 and it gets worse with each election cycle.
 
Not sure that amnesty would be a total slam dunk for Democrats. Most Hispanics are Roman Catholic and much more strongly religious than U.S. citizens in general. In terms of social values, enough may side with Republicans to make it a more even split. If what I think is correct, then someone like Santorum and perhaps Marco Rubio would make a devastating one/two punch in 2016. Of course, I don't know enough about both of their careers to be certain that they would be a good match, but a cursory examination of their records would suggest compatibility.
 
AdamT said:
Huh, I thought you were a libertarian?

"The 2004 [Libertarian] Platform called for "the elimination of all restrictions on immigration, the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered the country illegally".
Click to expand...

"A nation without borders is no nation at all."~ Dr. Ron Paul

I'd say I'm a conservative with a conscience.
 
The Prophet said:
"A nation without borders is no nation at all."~ Dr. Ron Paul

I'd say I'm a conservative with a conscience.
Click to expand...

"A libertarian who doesn't believe in the free movement of labour is no libertarian at all." Dr. Me
 
muciti said:
To further my own point....



Look at prophet and adam go. Prophet is programmed to auto blame dems. And no matter what it is, Adam is programmed to defend. Pick another issue and they'll switch sides. Adam will do what his party says. Prophet will attack them every time. And the game continues.

(not just calling you two out. just using you as examples. millions of people do the same things. free thought is rare in politics these days)
Click to expand...

You don't know me that well. The reason I usually defend the Democratic position is that I generally believe the Democratic position is right. I don't defend positions just because they happen to be Democratic.
 
danarhea said:
We are going to get another 4 years of Obama, regardless. In the future, Liberals as well as Conservatives are going to have to migrate to their own third parties, and vote against the status quo. In order to do that, they are going to have to think of themselves not as Republicans or Democrats, but as Americans, and kick their parties to the curb, thus putting country ahead of party.
Click to expand...

Why do you think a third party would be any different? Or even a forth or a fifth party?
 
danarhea said:
Election 2012?

For me here is the deal. It's not Republican vs. Democrat. It's us (the people) vs. THEM (The Republicrats). Yea, the Republicrats. Their mascot should be a donkey's ass sticking out of an elephant's ass. As long as they keep us all fighting one another they win. But as soon as enough people tell them to **** off (And that means Romney and Santorum, as well as Obama), then we can begin to take our country back. And it won't happen until enough people see through all their bull**** and stop voting for these clowns year after year.

/rant

Discussion? :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

The problem is structural -- not a result of the particular parties or candidates. Nothing is going to change unless or until we stop forcing our politicians to go begging for money.
 
AdamT said:
You don't know me that well. The reason I usually defend the Democratic position is that I generally believe the Democratic position is right. I don't defend positions just because they happen to be Democratic.
Click to expand...

Seriously? Aztlan.net? Did you want me to take that seriously or point at you and laugh because you do?

No matter where you go finding hard numbers on costs seems to be a partisan free for all. Everyone studying it seems to have a duck in the hunt.

Immigration's Price Tag - CBS News
FAIR: The Costs of Illegal Immigration to Floridians (2009)
The High Cost of Cheap Labor: Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget | Center for Immigration Studies
Illegal Immigrants Cost U.S. $100 Billion per Year, Conservative Group Says About Illegal Immigration - ABC News

My own opinion is that one of the principle problems we have with low wages is due to illegal immigration depressing wages. Put aside all the other costs and this one is a price tag thats even harder to pin down and may arguably be as high as the other costs or even more.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Seriously? Aztlan.net? Did you want me to take that seriously or point at you and laugh because you do?

No matter where you go finding hard numbers on costs seems to be a partisan free for all. Everyone studying it seems to have a duck in the hunt.

Immigration's Price Tag - CBS News
FAIR: The Costs of Illegal Immigration to Floridians (2009)
The High Cost of Cheap Labor: Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget | Center for Immigration Studies
Illegal Immigrants Cost U.S. $100 Billion per Year, Conservative Group Says About Illegal Immigration - ABC News

My own opinion is that one of the principle problems we have with low wages is due to illegal immigration depressing wages. Put aside all the other costs and this one is a price tag thats even harder to pin down and may arguably be as high as the other costs or even more.
Click to expand...

Really? Your argument is to stupidly point out the URL where the article is cited, as if that means anything? Did you happen to notice that it was "also published in Tax Lawyer (Spring 2006) and Harvard Latino Law Review (Spring 2006)"?

And your response is to cite several well known right-wing and anti-immigration groups? :lol:

You can't make this **** up.
 
AdamT said:
Really? Your argument is to stupidly point out the URL where the article is cited, as if that means anything? Did you happen to notice that it was "also published in Tax Lawyer (Spring 2006) and Harvard Latino Law Review (Spring 2006)"?

And your response is to cite several well known right-wing and anti-immigration groups? :lol:

You can't make this **** up.
Click to expand...

An academian that ignores how illegals game the system in her abstract and ignores the level of support the state spends on their children as part of the cost of illegals isnt taking the subject seriously, and neither are you. Her abstract statement is naive and blind to the numerous costs being tossed into the system by the untenable illegal situation we have.

Amnesty isnt the answer, full enforcement isnt either, but edging both directions with small percentages of amnesty and an attempt to enforce the border more rigourously wouldnt be a bad start.
 
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